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RE: How to stop Germany as USSR?

 
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RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/7/2012 9:45:20 PM   
CLEVELAND

 

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I'll try the USSR on easy tonight.

(in reply to Menschenfresser)
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RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/7/2012 9:57:05 PM   
Menschenfresser

 

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Maybe I found it. In the Small scenario events xml. Around line 13000, if I'm reading the lines correctly, seems there are three events that reduce Soviet unit effectiveness if at war with Germany. 45% in 1939-41. 25% in 42 and 10% in 43.

EDIT: No, I guess it doesn't work. Or I'm doing it wrong. I still saw -45 until 41 and -25 in 42.

I still think it won't be enough.

2nd EDIT: Ah, seems the game doesn't use the path entered into event.txt. Still uses SMALL_EUROPE_SCENARIO.xml no matter what.

< Message edited by Menschenfresser -- 9/8/2012 12:11:40 AM >


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Post #: 32
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/8/2012 12:53:59 AM   
CLEVELAND

 

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Just got done on Easy playing the Russians. The Panzer Armee deathstars just waltzed around zapping everything they touched. I managed to pocket an Armee and a panzer corps but apparently surrounding them and attacking from all sides caused more damage to me than them. Which I guess I can see but they were surrounded for several months! I killed the panzer corps at least, but the other deathstars came to the aid of the Armee.

Also you can attack from more than one hex only on the first round of combat. After that you can only attack from one hex at a time. I did not know that.

I was under the impression that Barbarossa resulted in huge German losses but here Panzer troops can just kill anything with very few casualties.

< Message edited by CLEVELAND -- 9/8/2012 12:54:34 AM >

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Post #: 33
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/8/2012 1:33:10 AM   
Menschenfresser

 

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I've modded the Soviets up some and the Germans down quite a bit. I've also changed some things like basic unit values, increasing all other units except for the tanks.

Here's where I think the problem lies:

Basically once the Germans invade Russia (if they do it in Summer 41) they've had quite a bit of time to build units and get experience. In my last game (which was modded but not as heavily as it is now) I managed to last unit late summer 42 before the deathstars got me. At the end, I see that some German tank armies benefit from level 4 war doctrine, 90% experience, and 20% leader experience, putting their combat values in the 30's. Not to mention, they had as many panzer units (corps & army) as I had units during the high point of the war for me.

Unless you're behind a river or in a city, you don't survive the first attack.

What I've done in a nutshell is lower German land warfare doctrine levels, max leader experience, lower the rate at which units gain xp from combat and raise the value of all types of units except for tank armies & corps. I'll run another test game tonight after I eat and post the modified files if successful (and if you guys want them).

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Post #: 34
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/8/2012 3:10:58 AM   
AZ Gung Ho


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Okay - I just ran through the 1941 scenario as Russia and I set the AI for Germany and her allies at very easy. Russia surrendered in May 1943.

The Panzer Armies (Super Panzer Destroyers) are just too darn powerful! Either they have to be limited or slowed down in some way or the Russians are going to have to be a lot more powerful from the get go than they are.

Anyone else?

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Post #: 35
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/8/2012 3:42:03 AM   
panzers

 

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Ok. I have read all this and I am getting a little nervous about playing the Russians.
Before I get slaughtered, what is the best way to defend myself as far as technology and builds. I am building massive amounts of infantry core and lining them up at the border as per usual, but that doesn't seem to work in this game based on everything I have seen here. I am also working on my armor techs. Is that a good idea?

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Post #: 36
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/8/2012 4:14:42 AM   
AZ Gung Ho


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From what I've seen it might help IF you get lucky real fast. The downside is the more you spend on tech the fewer units you can produce,and the Germans will keep on killing units a a lot faster than you can replace them. Honestly I don't know but it's worth a try.

_____________________________

"In Arduis Fidelis"
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Books:
Once A Raider… http://tinyurl.com/89mfnnk
Getting Real - http://tinyurl.com/7zhcjlq
Websites:
www.marshianchronicles.com
www.usmcraiders.com

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Post #: 37
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/8/2012 4:30:54 AM   
Menschenfresser

 

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I don't think there's anything you can do playing as the Russians in the stock game. Nothing works.

Devs can correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like if Russia is being played by the AI, there are boost events given to her. Extra units and supply upon certain conditions being met that aren't available to the human player.

I'm testing 1939, playing only the Russians, with the following changes:

* Experience per combat lowered to 1 from 5
* Leader experience capped at 10
* Default strength of all unit types (except tank units) have been raised slightly (and costs per strength point lowered). This is in hopes that infantry will stand more of a chance against panzer deathstars.
* Germany's land warfare rating has been lowered to a start value of 1 from 2, with gains adjusted. They still reach all levels before anyone else, but it shouldn't be so easy for them at the start.
* Also land warfare now grants 5 per level rather than 10.
* Russian handicap has been lowered significantly.

Again, I think the biggest problem is compounded effectiveness. XP + Leader rating + leader XP + land warfare level = death

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Post #: 38
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/8/2012 7:19:49 AM   
papajack

 

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Anyone try this setting German hard with Soviet very easy ? Having a hard time as German

Is the patch 1.04 to make USSR stronger a variant/optional ? If not then playing at very hard difficulty , German will be the one getting slaughter ...

A very weak France has also contribute to German power . maybe by making a strong French defense then it will impact the Operation Barbarossa



< Message edited by papajack -- 9/8/2012 9:06:28 AM >

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Post #: 39
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/8/2012 1:57:29 PM   
panzers

 

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I played the Germans as very easy and the Russians as very hard. I pretty much slaughtered them the first time around, now I am the one being slaughtered. I guess it depends on how much armor the Russians put up. Last game, they came up with 8, this time around they came up with 11 and I got pretty much surrounded. I guess it depends on the AI

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Post #: 40
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/8/2012 4:03:55 PM   
BootyJoe

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CLEVELAND
Just got done on Easy playing the Russians. The Panzer Armee deathstars just waltzed around zapping everything they touched. I managed to pocket an Armee and a panzer corps but apparently surrounding them and attacking from all sides caused more damage to me than them. Which I guess I can see but they were surrounded for several months! I killed the panzer corps at least, but the other deathstars came to the aid of the Armee.

Also you can attack from more than one hex only on the first round of combat. After that you can only attack from one hex at a time. I did not know that.

I was under the impression that Barbarossa resulted in huge German losses but here Panzer troops can just kill anything with very few casualties.


Finally players are reacting on MY thread. I was surprised the reaction came so late considering the fact USSR are doomed in GC unless modded/fiddling with difficulty. I guess the late reaction is due to the game being new and most ppl probably start off playing the Germans, then the Allies and last USSR. At least the number of posts confirming my initial worry concering USSR should bring Doomstrader's attention. As I stated in the starting post of this thread patching is needed to address USSR weakness / German deathstars.

Conclusion: I was right - yes I am a smart***


< Message edited by BootyJoe -- 9/8/2012 8:04:00 PM >

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Post #: 41
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/8/2012 4:30:39 PM   
Windoze

 

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Won the 1939 scenario with all settings default as USSR.

First of all take out Finland completly early, one less front to think about. Then the key is to defend in depth with lots of cheap lvl 1 infantry corps as speedbumps until your combat strength goes up after a couple of turns. You will need to sacrifice some land doing this, but that means the germans are thinning out his line leaving himself open to counter attacks from your tanks and mech units later on.

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Post #: 42
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/8/2012 4:57:45 PM   
CLEVELAND

 

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For the '41 scenario how about changing the OOB and get rid of the Panzer Armees and replace them with, say, a tank and mech corps (or whatever). At least then the Germans will actually take some losses.

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Post #: 43
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/8/2012 7:03:56 PM   
AZ Gung Ho


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I just tried Windoze's idea - didn't work for me and I had Germany and allies set at Very Easy.

Windoze, I'd love to see an AAR of your approach and exactly how you did it.

_____________________________

"In Arduis Fidelis"
Louie Marsh

Books:
Once A Raider… http://tinyurl.com/89mfnnk
Getting Real - http://tinyurl.com/7zhcjlq
Websites:
www.marshianchronicles.com
www.usmcraiders.com

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Post #: 44
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/8/2012 8:03:23 PM   
BootyJoe

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Windoze

Won the 1939 scenario with all settings default as USSR.

First of all take out Finland completly early, one less front to think about. Then the key is to defend in depth with lots of cheap lvl 1 infantry corps as speedbumps until your combat strength goes up after a couple of turns. You will need to sacrifice some land doing this, but that means the germans are thinning out his line leaving himself open to counter attacks from your tanks and mech units later on.


Please this is a serious thread aimed at improving play balance in SWE - no pranks pls.


< Message edited by BootyJoe -- 9/8/2012 8:05:15 PM >

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Post #: 45
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/8/2012 8:32:05 PM   
Menschenfresser

 

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Damn...

The good news is, nearly every constant in the game can be modded. It's quite complex behind the scenes. Bad news is, it's ridiculously hard to weaken those Pz Armees without turning the German war effort into a hopeless cause and/or making the WW2 schedule impossible for the AI. From Sept 39 to 41 German speed depends on the "touch of death" approach we're all lamenting in Russia.

Tank armies enhanced by xp, leader rating, land warfare levels, etc get turned into juggernauts.

Furthermore, on 4 different occasions they have the chance to get a random number of pz armees. That's why in '42 you'll notice the front is covered by a dozen of them.

Shortly I'm going to post a modded version of the 1939 scenario, if anyone's interested. I still haven't gotten a legit win against the Germans, but I'm trying.

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Post #: 46
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/8/2012 9:46:54 PM   
Windoze

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BootyJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Windoze

Won the 1939 scenario with all settings default as USSR.

First of all take out Finland completly early, one less front to think about. Then the key is to defend in depth with lots of cheap lvl 1 infantry corps as speedbumps until your combat strength goes up after a couple of turns. You will need to sacrifice some land doing this, but that means the germans are thinning out his line leaving himself open to counter attacks from your tanks and mech units later on.


Please this is a serious thread aimed at improving play balance in SWE - no pranks pls.



I tried USSR 1939 default setting two more times and I must admit I must have been extremly lucky the first time. Both attempts today I get utterly destroyed by the german panzers.

(in reply to BootyJoe)
Post #: 47
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/8/2012 10:27:07 PM   
Menschenfresser

 

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USSR mod posted in the mods section.

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Post #: 48
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/11/2012 5:50:07 PM   
IDrinkBeer2

 

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Has anybody ever gotten land units from an event? I have played 4 times (2 as Russians, 2 as Germans) and have never gotten any extra units. If events that confer free units are only executed when the AI is playing a particular side this could go a long way to explaining why we are getting conflicting reports about issues with play balance.

I have been trounced twice when playing Russians (uber Death Star Panzer Armies all over the place)

I have been stuffed twice against AI Russia when playing Germans. (Partly because of Sub-Optimal play on my part but Russian units are way stronger and more numerous than anything I came up with when playing them).


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Post #: 49
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/11/2012 5:54:52 PM   
CLEVELAND

 

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I played the 1939 campaign game as Germany and received an extra Panzer Corps that represents the Afrika Korps, for free as an event.

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Post #: 50
RE: How to stop Germany as USSR? - 9/12/2012 3:25:10 PM   
Bonners


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Have to say I've given up on the game for now, I like simplistic, but equally I would like a bit of a challenge either way. I've played a couple of campaigns as the Germans where I just wait until late '41/early '42 for The Russians to declare war and then stomp all over them.

I've tried four different campaigns as the Russians now (I've tried to make all the settings as easy as possible for me), just to see if there is something I am missing and the furthest I've got to is 1943 where my remaining two troops with a couple of frantically waving sticks finally decide to call it a day. It is no challenge as either side. I'll probably come back to it in a few months once modders/patches have had more of an effect on the balancing issues. It does seem a worthwhile simple strategy game, but still needs some work, especially on the Russians.

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