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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!!

 
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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 10/31/2012 12:20:10 PM   
terje439


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Turn 54 aka did he or did he not

Overall
Well. We did seal the pocket, but it will be broken, that I am pretty certain of, but it should be sealed properly next turn. I hope... We'll see. Anyway, a total of 89 attacks this turn, giving us 10 helds (these have alot of the blame for the inproperly sealed pocket imo), 63 retreats, 15 routs and 1 shatter.
I like to think I was clever in heading a little east then south/north, as I was placing my money on Brad having his best units in my direct approach-route. But I might be way off hehe.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
0.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
247 (give or take, MIGHT have miscounted somewhat).

Losses
USSR : 114.000 troops, 1.283 guns, 181 AFVs, 448 AC.
Axis : 42.000 troops, 341 guns, 108 AFVs, 101 AC.

USSR units lost
1 rifle division.

Partisans hunted down
7. They are starting to become annoying now!

German pools
Manpower : 330.
Vehicles : 181.751
Armaments : 127.517
Hiwi : 15

????? factor
Am I missing some fort buuilding rule along the lines of "Thou shalst not build a fort to level 3 if the enemy is far away" or something? I have placed some soon to depart German units back in Germany digging in the Berlin area, and the forts will NOT go above level 2 even with fortified zones.








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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 10/31/2012 12:20:40 PM   
terje439


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Close up north






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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 10/31/2012 12:21:05 PM   
terje439


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Close up northen part of the centre






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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 10/31/2012 12:21:31 PM   
terje439


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Close up southern part of the centre






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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 10/31/2012 12:21:52 PM   
terje439


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Close up south






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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 10/31/2012 12:47:50 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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This has to be the biggest pocket ever if I am not mistaken

Size isn't everything. Ask the million ants that tried to kill just one elephant They almost succeeded, then the elephant managed to escape. From the ground, 999.999 ants shouted to the 1 ant who didn't fall down and was on the elephant's neck: "STRANGLE HIM, FFS JUST STRANGLE HIM...!!!"

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 10/31/2012 12:51:35 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

This has to be the biggest pocket ever if I am not mistaken

Size isn't everything. Ask the million ants that tried to kill just one elephant They almost succeeded, then the elephant managed to escape. From the ground, 999.999 ants shouted to the 1 ant who didn't fall down and was on the elephant's neck: "STRANGLE HIM, FFS JUST STRANGLE HIM...!!!"



Hehe well, we will do our best to abide the 999.999

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 10/31/2012 3:11:50 PM   
Tophat1812

 

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Congrats on a mega pocket! And thanks for the closeup pics as well.

How are your panzer and mobile divisions holding up at this point?

After the pocket reduction whats the plan? Or are you going to grind him according to what he gives you to grind?

Kursk,Orel,Kaluga all within reach now. Reduce his manpower?

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 10/31/2012 3:30:44 PM   
76mm


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Wow, that is a serious pocket, nice one! I'm sure but I think that your opponent should be able to survive even that mega-pocket, but he certainly can't afford many more.

This is the dilemma faced by Sov players in 1942--to make Pelton's (very effective) mini-pocket strategy harder to implement (but still possible), you have to keep your reserves near the front line; but if you do that you have no strategic reserves to block mega-pockets like this.

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 10/31/2012 4:07:10 PM   
Baelfiin

 

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Re fort building 20 hexes to enemy to get more than level two iirc.

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 10/31/2012 7:58:59 PM   
sj80

 

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Great job Terje! I hope you can seal the pocket! That's a pocket every Axis player is dreaming of.

The Southern Army HQ is now somewhat afraid about Allied land tactics and capabilities. More units are requested to strengthen the Burma defense.

Sebastian

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/1/2012 1:34:32 AM   
bigbaba


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where is the real terje? what did you to him?:)

just kidding but: are you crazy? i was away for a month and when i come back you turned around the game totaly. damnd you was losing this war and now you pocket 250 units and act like it is nothing special for you and you do this on a daily base like a pro.:)


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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/1/2012 1:35:19 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

Congrats on a mega pocket! And thanks for the closeup pics as well.

How are your panzer and mobile divisions holding up at this point?

After the pocket reduction whats the plan? Or are you going to grind him according to what he gives you to grind?

Kursk,Orel,Kaluga all within reach now. Reduce his manpower?


Thank you.
Well, as can be seen by their CV, the panzers/mechanized units are really worn down by now, espesially the smaller units are now nothing but movement containers, so they could all use a break. They do however fight well against the USSR brigades, but have some trouble with the USSR divisions.
Next step? Well, there are a few options;
1. Turn north, threathen to isolate his entire northern flank and threathen Leningrad
2. Continue east and threathen Moscow
3. Turn south, and dislodge his southern flank

That being said, I do think I will need some time to make the pocket firm enough to start reducing it, but we will see.

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/1/2012 1:37:46 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Wow, that is a serious pocket, nice one! I'm sure but I think that your opponent should be able to survive even that mega-pocket, but he certainly can't afford many more.

This is the dilemma faced by Sov players in 1942--to make Pelton's (very effective) mini-pocket strategy harder to implement (but still possible), you have to keep your reserves near the front line; but if you do that you have no strategic reserves to block mega-pockets like this.


Yes, I too think he will be able to survive, espesially since as allready mentioned, he built too many units, and now his manpower will fill out his remaining units more rapidly. However as mentioned in my post above, this does leave me some options that could put more pressure on him. I must think about what to do, I mean really think about it, as the wrong move is bound to bog me down and lose the game, while the correct choice might break the USSR.
Will also have to look at the OOB numbers if/when I am able to really wipe out this pocket.


Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/1/2012 1:38:51 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

Re fort building 20 hexes to enemy to get more than level two iirc.


Aha, that would explain it, although it does not make sense. Oh well, guess I'll have to build to level two and increase the ammount of fortified zones I have on the map to keep them from decaying. Which will cost me manpower I can ill afford.
Thanks for the clearification.


Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/1/2012 1:39:37 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sj80

Great job Terje! I hope you can seal the pocket! That's a pocket every Axis player is dreaming of.

The Southern Army HQ is now somewhat afraid about Allied land tactics and capabilities. More units are requested to strengthen the Burma defense.

Sebastian


Hehe thanks Sebastian, you do realise this was just a display to show the IJA what the Allies are able to achieve under my command don't you


Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/1/2012 1:44:12 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

where is the real terje? what did you to him?:)

just kidding but: are you crazy? i was away for a month and when i come back you turned around the game totaly. damnd you was losing this war and now you pocket 250 units and act like it is nothing special for you and you do this on a daily base like a pro.:)




Hehe.
Well it is not at all a daily occurance, that is for sure, and I do like what I see on the map, but I am not too sure it will hold, so for now I am backordering the Champagne for a little while
As the mud cleared up, I got more used to the herding technique, and saw its proper use, and the shape of the front, as well as Brad's really though defence in the North and South simply gave me no option but to try for this pocket.
Also, I realized that I had to do something major, so I guess you might say that I went all in on a hunch. Sometimes my hunches work out (although most of the time they do not ).
Going to be interesting to see if I can locate some guard units inside the pocket. If I do, then I definitively believe I made the correct assumption in going east then south instead of trying the shortest approach.


Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/1/2012 5:09:37 AM   
Tophat1812

 

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Keep routing his brigades and let your infantry do the heavy lifting hammering his infantry divisions. You have enough infantry to rip up that isolated pocket and frankly the most likely point south of Smolensk to open the pocket he seems to have nothing but Hq's,routed units and air bases. Let him come baby and shoot him as he comes at you.

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/1/2012 10:36:43 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

Keep routing his brigades and let your infantry do the heavy lifting hammering his infantry divisions. You have enough infantry to rip up that isolated pocket and frankly the most likely point south of Smolensk to open the pocket he seems to have nothing but Hq's,routed units and air bases. Let him come baby and shoot him as he comes at you.


He found some units somewhere it seems, but I have strengthend the pocket this turn, and it should hold this time around....I hope.


Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/1/2012 10:43:47 AM   
terje439


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Turn 55

Overall
As exoected the pocket was broken (not that hard with holes in my line ), but we resealed it, trimmed some edges on the outer ring, and basically made it all the stronger all around. I THINK it will hold this time around, although he has some good units outside the pocket, so I guess he will atleast try to break it. We will see how it turns out.
This turn we launched 64 attacks, scoring 5 helds, 47 retreats, 13 routs, 2 shatters and 2 surrenders. I could have made more attacks, but I am terrified to rout units out of the pockets, so I will rather sacrifice one turn to make sure it does not happen.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
3.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
Aprox 250.

Losses
USSR : 108.000 troops, 1.352 guns, 1422 AFVs, 238 AC.
Axis : 40.000 troops, 288 guns, 123 AFVs, 84 AC.

USSR units destroyed
2 rifle divisions, 1 rifle brigade, 1 naval rifle brigade, 1 PVO AA regiment.

Axis units disbanded
This is only for voluntarily disbanded units, not withdrawals.
15 fortified zones.

German pools
Manpower : 8.893
Vehicles : 188.113
Armaments : 137.701
Hiwi : 1.182






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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/1/2012 11:41:05 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

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It is nice to see you getting the hang of pocket-making. Bravo.

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/1/2012 11:53:27 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

It is nice to see you getting the hang of pocket-making. Bravo.


Well, about time I think most (including me) would say
Thanks.


Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/1/2012 7:42:04 PM   
Tophat1812

 

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So 3 guards rifle divisions and a cavalry corps have shownup eh? He best be careful,while your infantry reduces the pocket,your rail repair units move forward and your mobile divisions rest and pull maintenance he is setting up your next targets at end of July. So far he has no depth behind those divisions/corps along with plenty of brigades still on the front.

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/2/2012 12:33:21 AM   
Schmart

 

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Great stuff! Extra ration of rum for Terje Can you do a rough before and after Russian strength analysis to see how much was actually in that pocket?

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/2/2012 10:43:02 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

So 3 guards rifle divisions and a cavalry corps have shownup eh? He best be careful,while your infantry reduces the pocket,your rail repair units move forward and your mobile divisions rest and pull maintenance he is setting up your next targets at end of July. So far he has no depth behind those divisions/corps along with plenty of brigades still on the front.


Well, that is the PLAN at least

Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/2/2012 10:44:00 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Schmart

Great stuff! Extra ration of rum for Terje Can you do a rough before and after Russian strength analysis to see how much was actually in that pocket?


Yikes, I allready have 3 bottles of Cpt.Morgan Spiced on my shelves. Guess I better start drinking more
Yeah, I can post an OOB before and after the pocket is eliminated, no problem.



Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/2/2012 11:18:03 AM   
terje439


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Turn 56 aka Turn of BAH!

Overall
So, the USSR launched one attack and opened the pocket again. Resealed, but still not 100% happy with it. The problem is that the pocket is so darned big that it ties down alot of units just to contain it. Anyway, we launched 55 attacks this turn, scoring 5 helds, 30 retreats, 18 routs and 2 shatters.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
0.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
aprox 250.

Losses
USSR : 102.000 troops, 1.331 guns, 147 AFVs, 156 AC.
Axis : 45.000 troops, 381 guns, 98 AFVs, 79 AC.

USSR units destroyed
1 rifle division, 1 rifle brigade.

German pools
Manpower : 531
Vehicles : 197.531
Armaments : 148.315
Hiwi : 2






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< Message edited by terje439 -- 11/2/2012 11:19:14 AM >


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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/2/2012 2:15:31 PM   
gingerbread


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You should consider splitting the pocket. No doubt some of the units you attack to do that will rout out of the pocket, but it's much to big to be destroyed in one go even if fully isolated.

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/2/2012 5:25:50 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

You should consider splitting the pocket. No doubt some of the units you attack to do that will rout out of the pocket, but it's much to big to be destroyed in one go even if fully isolated.


Yes, I have been considering it, and if it breaks again, I will, if not split it, atleast let my panzer/mechs push SW to force the USSR units apart from each other.


Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/2/2012 5:45:22 PM   
glvaca

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439


quote:

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

You should consider splitting the pocket. No doubt some of the units you attack to do that will rout out of the pocket, but it's much to big to be destroyed in one go even if fully isolated.


Yes, I have been considering it, and if it breaks again, I will, if not split it, atleast let my panzer/mechs push SW to force the USSR units apart from each other.


Terje



What you need to try and do is increase the distance between the pocket and the outside. That means attacking to the East.
The pocket itself can be held pretty easily on the inside (ie. facing the surrounded troops). On the outside, you need to push and create space. That's where you need the best and most troops.

Nice work!

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