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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!!

 
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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/14/2013 1:39:14 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

So far so good.............Looks as though you can take out 10+ divisions next turn. Who'd of ever thought you'd be within 6 hexes of stalingrad in October of 43'???


He built the wrong stuff and had a screwup and you started the AP crunch. You never stop to rest anything, resting simply gives SHC time to grow 2x faster then you do.

Good play on your part and poor on his.



Thank you
Do not have much of a choice about rest now though, attacking in mud is just a plain waste of panzers.


Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/14/2013 2:22:46 PM   
terje439


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Turn 123

Overall
With mud all around nothing really happens. We eliminate some pocketed units and scare some partisans. That is all...
5 attacks, 1 held and 4 surrenders.
Some good news though (see pic below).

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
9.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
4.

Losses
USSR : 86.000 troops, 1.100 guns, 39 AFVs, 217 AC.
Axis : 26.000 troops, 72 guns, 76 AFVs, 54 AC.

USSR units lost
5 Rifle Divisions.

German units disbanded
None.

Partisans hunted down
7, leaving 1 on the map.

German pools
Manpower : 222.994
Vehicles : 239.571
Armaments : 599.212
Hiwi : 182.643

Victory Points
224.







Attachment (1)

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/14/2013 6:48:52 PM   
sillyflower


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Only 54K artillery is the real measure of his weakness - not much more than a third of what he should have

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/15/2013 1:06:38 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

Only 54K artillery is the real measure of his weakness - not much more than a third of what he should have


True, but I had not really looked at these numbers for some time, and have always had a fear that he was gathering some tanks on one of my flanks as that would probably mess things up a little bit. Now, I do not fear that


Terje
*edit* my name is IMPOSSIBLE to write correctly when I type too fast

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/15/2013 1:50:08 PM   
terje439


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Turn 124

Overall
Still mud, so apart from not being able to tackle all partisans, nothing changes.
5 attacks give 1 held, 2 retreats and 2 surrenders this turn.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
4.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
2.

Losses
USSR : 68.000 troops, 840 guns, 233 AFVs, 191 AC.
Axis : 26.000 troops, 127 guns, 60 AFVs, 12 AC.

USSR units lost
1 Tank Corps, 1 Rifle Division.

German units disbanded
None.

Partisans hunted down
10, leaving 3 on the map.

German pools
Manpower : 234.065
Vehicles : 232.541
Armaments : 616.054
Hiwi : 181.914
The Wehrmacht must develop trucks that can handle mud!!!

Victory Points
224.






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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/15/2013 4:09:49 PM   
veji1

 

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He is beyond dead, he is already buried in game terms. There is only one thing to do, in the words of Mortal Kombat "Finish Him".

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/15/2013 5:43:21 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

He is beyond dead, he is already buried in game terms. There is only one thing to do, in the words of Mortal Kombat "Finish Him".


I'm trying


Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/15/2013 5:48:35 PM   
terje439


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Turn 125

Overall
Mud is gone around Moscow, so we resume the attacks. The advance is not great in the initial turn, but we break through the line in a few places, now I need my panzers to lash out a left-right combo to surround Moscow.
We eliminate the last two units that was trapped, but only managed to encircle one more unit this turn. Not good enough, but for now it will have to do. We also reassigned some SUs, mainly Jagdpanzers and StuGHs.
54 attacks resulted in 9 helds, 41 retreats, 3 routs and 1 surrender.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
2.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
1.

Losses
USSR : 119.000 troops, 1.952 guns, 63 AFVs, 426 AC.
Axis : 43.000 troops, 656 guns, 76 AFVs, 95 AC.

USSR units lost
2 Rifle Divisions.

German units disbanded
None.

Partisans hunted down
11, leaving 2 on the map.

German pools
Manpower : 244.427
Vehicles : 225.798
Armaments : 638.255
Hiwi : 179.343

Victory Points
224.







Attachment (1)

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/16/2013 4:50:25 PM   
juret

 

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gogogo

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/16/2013 5:06:12 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juret

gogogo


No turn from Brad in my inbox so far today


Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/16/2013 9:48:48 PM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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Is Moscow enough to give you auto victory?

or

Do you think Brad will continue to fight if it falls?

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/17/2013 12:26:28 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

Is Moscow enough to give you auto victory?

or

Do you think Brad will continue to fight if it falls?


Since all our games have been fought to the bitter end, I expect the game to go to the end. I will still need some 25 VP after Moscow falls I think.


Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/17/2013 2:14:35 AM   
terje439


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Turn 126 aka

Overall
With mud gone in all zones, we really kick off the winter season. At first it looked like I was not going to have a good turn. Then...Well, see below.
17 helds (almost all came at the start of the turn and gave me a bad feeling), 54 retreats (looking better by now), 6 routs, 3 shatters and 1 surrenders made up a total of 81 attacks this turn. Not bad for the Axis at the end of -43.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
1.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
16.

Losses
USSR : 127.000 troops, 2.275 guns, 109 AFVs, 874 AC.
Axis : 44.000 troops, 601 guns, 127 AFVs, 97 AC.
As can be seen, I overran a couple of airfields again.

USSR units lost
3 Rifle Divisions.

German units disbanded
None. Too bad I cannot disband units about to withdraw...But nooo, I have to share with Rundstedt and Rommel...

Partisans hunted down
12, leaving 1 on the map.

German pools
Manpower : 245.423
Vehicles : 222.394
Armaments : 645.017
Hiwi : 177.716

Victory Points
224. No changes here THIS turn .






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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/17/2013 2:44:18 AM   
Pelton

 

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Pacman wins.



You did it perfect from the start. Small pockets every turn.

I would say SHC in this game made the mistake of building things other then rifle divisions every turn during 42. Once you got the snow ball rolling he could not get ahaed of the pacman curve so to speak.

I went back and looked at what you did during blizzard and you followed the Morale is King of the Battle Field Strategy and ran like hell dispite the fact you had little land to give back.

Morale is what it is all about for GHC, great job on your winter strategy it really paid off.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 2/17/2013 2:49:05 AM >


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15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/17/2013 3:06:39 AM   
terje439


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Thank you
Well, against how I had played earlier, I think Brad did not build the wrong stuff, however as soon as I learned to create pockets he was in deep trouble.
The running back was not as much as the fear of reduced morale, but more from the fact that in my last few games I have lost far too many divisions during blizzard. Makes no sense to stay and let them die. Better to fall back to the "no blizzard effect" areas and keep your divisions. Atleast when you do not gain more ground in -41 than I did.
Sadly, falling back 2 hexes per turn just is not enough, as the USSR will still be able to ZoC-lock some of your units.

What is scary though is just how many units Brad had to lose before the AP-crunch really took effect.


Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/17/2013 6:43:09 AM   
rbrockman2

 

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A little (in)appropriate Disney to motivate your SS pixeltruppen:

"This old town can slow you down
People taking the easy way
But I know exactly where I'm going
And getting closer and closer, every day

And I'm almost there, I'm almost there
People down here think I'm crazy, but I don't care
Trials and tribulations I've had my share
There ain't nothing gonna stop me now cause I'm almost there"

-- The Princess and the Frog

Good luck, sir!

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/17/2013 7:06:24 AM   
terje439


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Thank you



Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/17/2013 10:31:30 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

Thank you
Well, against how I had played earlier, I think Brad did not build the wrong stuff, however as soon as I learned to create pockets he was in deep trouble.
The running back was not as much as the fear of reduced morale, but more from the fact that in my last few games I have lost far too many divisions during blizzard. Makes no sense to stay and let them die. Better to fall back to the "no blizzard effect" areas and keep your divisions. Atleast when you do not gain more ground in -41 than I did.
Sadly, falling back 2 hexes per turn just is not enough, as the USSR will still be able to ZoC-lock some of your units.

What is scary though is just how many units Brad had to lose before the AP-crunch really took effect.


Terje


The replasement system right now is such a disaster your better off as GHC to go back to the start line during blizzard as your game clearly proves vs Mikes and Kamils.



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GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/17/2013 2:01:27 PM   
terje439


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Well the REAL issue imo is that the German divisions are too easily ZoC-locked. If I do not get replasements in, that is one thing, but the Axis armaments/manpower pools simply cannot cope with a loss of 20 divisions during blizzard.
So, I think running is a viable option.


Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/17/2013 7:28:00 PM   
AFV


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Terje did not run like hell or just go back to the start line- he did a graceful retreat 2 hexes a turn during most of the blizzard- and did it very well- limiting the number of Soviet attacks while keeping as much land as he could. It was a lot more masterful than just run like hell. He ended up well to the east of the start line! He never lost Riga, for example.

I think a lot of the issues with the replacement system come from setting units across the board at 85%. I rarely see issues when I have units on refit, on rail, TOE set at 100%. There is no doubt it is harder as the German to have units off the line refitting- not trying to debate that. Also, I have observed that all things being equal- if I have two identical shell units, in the same situation, except one has TOE set at 50% and the other at 100%, the 100% TOE one will get more replacements that first turn.

I'm just saying what I see from my games (mostly as Russian). I have not set down and ran turns over and over testing this, so I cannot prove it- its just the feel I get.

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/17/2013 7:32:42 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AFV

Terje did not run like hell or just go back to the start line- he did a graceful retreat 2 hexes a turn during most of the blizzard- and did it very well- limiting the number of Soviet attacks while keeping as much land as he could. It was a lot more masterful than just run like hell. He ended up well to the east of the start line! He never lost Riga, for example.

I think a lot of the issues with the replacement system come from setting units across the board at 85%. I rarely see issues when I have units on refit, on rail, TOE set at 100%. There is no doubt it is harder as the German to have units off the line refitting- not trying to debate that. Also, I have observed that all things being equal- if I have two identical shell units, in the same situation, except one has TOE set at 50% and the other at 100%, the 100% TOE one will get more replacements that first turn.

I'm just saying what I see from my games (mostly as Russian). I have not set down and ran turns over and over testing this, so I cannot prove it- its just the feel I get.


If you look where he stopped was very same lines I stopped at. I did not lose Riga until many months later and only because of an exploit, which has been nerfed.

I do not seeing the SHC having any issue with replasements. I see same units on line attacking every turn and CV are static or going up.

This system also has zero effect when GHC is close to the start line another reason for running like hell in blizzard.

The current ruleset makes it the GHC ONLY option during blizzard.

1.This makes SHC replasement harder because of long supply lines with no rail
2. GHC has no issues with replasements because of short distance to homeland.
3. GHC saves morale/men equipement, because most loses are taken from retreats.
4. The ammo exploit has been nerfed making next to impossible for SHC to counter attack.

Basicly in this game SHC fell into the trap and did not know about ammo exploit. GHC used the tried and true tactic of small pockets and SHC built way way tomany Corp. Once the snowball started there was no stopping it.



< Message edited by Pelton -- 2/17/2013 7:40:29 PM >


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GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/17/2013 7:55:57 PM   
AFV


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

If you look where he stopped was very same lines I stopped at. I did not lose Riga until many months later and only because of an exploit, which has been nerfed.



Thats a nice fun fact, but I was referring to Terje's game, not one of yours.

The rest of your post, I more or less agree with- except the replacement system working differently for the German depending on where the lines are in relation to Berlin. If that's what you have seen, I will take your word for that but in your game with MT- I went and looked at that game (now I am referring to a game of yours :), you felt at one point there was an issue with replacements, but Matrix went back and said they did not see an issue when everything was set at 100% (agrees with what I have seen in games).

I am not saying the replacement system works and all units get exactly what you think they should. They generally get something, it seems to have a lot of random results in it, and I think, its WAD- to reflect the fact that getting replacements was hit or miss. Look, it took Radar 2 months to get toilet seats in Korea (MASH reference).

About the only thing I can conclude is:
It helps to be on a rail.
It helps greatly to not be adjacent to enemy units.
The closer to full TOE your unit is currently at, the less it will receive
The lower you set your TOE%, the lower the priority for that unit to get replacements, regardless of what is available.
Shells can get massive amounts (like from 0% to 60% in one turn), while a unit next to it at 75% will gain 5% only
Some kind of random factor is applied across the board.
It seems leader rolls should be a factor but I don't see it.


< Message edited by AFV -- 2/17/2013 8:01:31 PM >

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/18/2013 12:10:35 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AFV

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

If you look where he stopped was very same lines I stopped at. I did not lose Riga until many months later and only because of an exploit, which has been nerfed.



Thats a nice fun fact, but I was referring to Terje's game, not one of yours.

The rest of your post, I more or less agree with- except the replacement system working differently for the German depending on where the lines are in relation to Berlin. If that's what you have seen, I will take your word for that but in your game with MT- I went and looked at that game (now I am referring to a game of yours :), you felt at one point there was an issue with replacements, but Matrix went back and said they did not see an issue when everything was set at 100% (agrees with what I have seen in games).

I am not saying the replacement system works and all units get exactly what you think they should. They generally get something, it seems to have a lot of random results in it, and I think, its WAD- to reflect the fact that getting replacements was hit or miss. Look, it took Radar 2 months to get toilet seats in Korea (MASH reference).

About the only thing I can conclude is:
It helps to be on a rail.
It helps greatly to not be adjacent to enemy units.
The closer to full TOE your unit is currently at, the less it will receive
The lower you set your TOE%, the lower the priority for that unit to get replacements, regardless of what is available.
Shells can get massive amounts (like from 0% to 60% in one turn), while a unit next to it at 75% will gain 5% only
Some kind of random factor is applied across the board.
It seems leader rolls should be a factor but I don't see it.



The thing i have seen is the SS units get allot of replasements, basicly blow up. So I am using them more and more as the main counter attacking units.

I agree with allot of what your saying.

It looks like units not on line under whatever the average toe is does get more on average.

But I have units that have been off line for a month digging and they are still under 50%, wth? Others from same Corp about same morale ect goes from 40 to 60 in a single turn? WTH again?

Its like some units are stuck while other freely get replasements. I am tring to find the Oh sht OKH hates you guys so u get 0 replasements per turn and putting them in digging Corp I have set up. Its a wierd screwed up system.

Why some units sitting in same hex same Corp recieve 1 or 2 % per turn and the other 10 - 20% is freaky, but what we are forsed to live with.


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to AFV)
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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/18/2013 10:38:49 AM   
terje439


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Turn 127

Overall
I think this was a good turn, I will let you judge for yourself by the screenshots below. Brad started to pull his corps formations back from Moscow to save them I guess.
73 attacks resulted in 15 helds (too high!!), 42 retreats, 6 routs and 10 surrenders.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
16.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
41 .

Losses
USSR : 198.000 troops, 3.317 guns, 124 AFVs, 546 AC.
Axis : 41.000 troops, 433 guns, 129 AFVs, 59 AC.

USSR units lost
14 Rifle Divisions, 1 tank brigade.

German units disbanded
None.

Partisans hunted down
7, leaving 2 on the map.

German pools
Manpower : 256.561
Vehicles : 222.659
Armaments : 648.905
Hiwi : 176.222

Victory Points
226. Took two cities in the east.






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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/18/2013 10:39:21 AM   
terje439


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Woohoooo!!!






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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/18/2013 12:06:20 PM   
janh

 

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Congrats! Now this looks like a serious haul of prisoners. Let me guess -- this is de facto the end of the Red Army? You are happy to have such an opponent, btw. I fear I would already have come with a white flag at this point. Looks very disastrous to loose at these units now.

Question: Does he defend in depth, or does he stack everything at the front, like it would seem from you images?

< Message edited by janh -- 2/18/2013 12:07:26 PM >

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/18/2013 3:21:11 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: janh

Congrats! Now this looks like a serious haul of prisoners. Let me guess -- this is de facto the end of the Red Army? You are happy to have such an opponent, btw. I fear I would already have come with a white flag at this point. Looks very disastrous to loose at these units now.

Question: Does he defend in depth, or does he stack everything at the front, like it would seem from you images?


Tbh, the Red Army is more or less gone. Further south than the first screenshot Brad had to adopta checkerboard pattern just to place ZoCs to guard the entire front.
His defence is just what you see in the screenshot. And yes, I am happy that I have such a good sport as an opponent.


Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/18/2013 6:38:18 PM   
Flaviusx


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This has been over for a while. Your opponent is a masochist. There's nothing sporting about this, it's just a train wreck. It's about as lopsided as bambi vs. Godzilla.

He ought to do the sensible thing and surrender.



< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 2/18/2013 6:40:38 PM >


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WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 718
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/18/2013 11:11:16 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 1257
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: London
Status: offline
The honourable thing is to fight on as he has, and too few players do.
No point in playing a GC if you baleout as soon as you don't think you can win. Terje has deserved his triumph and all credit to Brian's sportsmanhip: though not his generalship.

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 719
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 2/18/2013 11:35:32 PM   
rbrockman2

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 2/17/2013
Status: offline
Q: It looks like any Red Team units between Moscow and Stalingrad that don't run away right now are going to get encircled in groups of 5 or 10 and then toasted. Can they even run away fast enough? Doesn't look like most of the Red Team units have wheels.

Q: How fast can the big, mean, black-label units cruise up the rail lines north of Moscow? Is this a practical way to isolate Leningrad and the Red Team forces north of Moscow before mud?

Q: Does Red Team know about the shortage of Axis railroad repair units? This shortage limits the number of Axis lines of advance to two, right? Is there a way to get the disbanded repair units back? If Virtual Stalin knows where the two railroad repair units are, maybe he can concentrate his remaining forces there to stall the advance long enough to recover somewhat an avoid a decisive defeat.

Q: Where did Red Team go wrong strategically? The monster 250 unit encirclement was clearly not great, but it seems to me that for the most part Red Team suffered a large number of little operational defeats (handfuls of units encircled) which added up to the ultimate collapse we see here. Was Red Team too attached to territory to run away in time? How does Red Team avoid these problems?

(in reply to sillyflower)
Post #: 720
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