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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!!

 
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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/2/2012 6:13:10 PM   
janh

 

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Awesome job, Terje. One of the most impressive pockets I ever saw. Curious as to how many units will add to the casualty list by the end. With that you've really turned around this game it would seem. Quite a show of skill, you'll have to pass on the "poorest Axis player" award I fear.

After blizzard you made some quite daring moves and create some breaches, especially down south. Seems like this is one example showing there's hope even if the summer 41 campaign goes well below average. In less than 10 turns you pushed the Red Army back by 150 miles or so in most areas, that's not that much slower than a year before... and chewed up a lot of units. That's already a lot better than I would have bet it ever to go at this stage. *scratches head* That makes me wonder whether Pelton will also succeed with his winter withdrawal strategy... might depend on whether the opponent follows so closely.

Another thing I noticed is how ordered and strong the opposition is you faced by turn 11-12 across the board. Hard to break, as you noticed, but possible. Looks very reasonable for the Red Army, though, if not to say realistic compared to what the Germans did face. After all, not for no reason the front went static before breaking the land bridge (and before sending PG2 to Kiev). Apparently in this game it makes a huge, very huge difference if you loose 3-4 turns within the first 8 ones? Most if not all games where the Axis got stuck, either mud, or unlucky rolls, or isolation of Panzers caused a number (>>2) turns time loss before the Djenpr around Kiev and the Smolensk sector were taken, usually after turn 11-12ish or so then. All these AARs show the Red Army putting up organzied lines again. The other bunch of AARs on the fast limit, like Michaels or Peltons typical ones, saw the Djenpr and landbridge or the Pskov region overrun by turn 7-8ish. Obviously 3-4 "faster" turns means the reinforcement schedule is overtaken by the Germans, and Russian lines in these AARs are thin and look widely spread out. The tempo seems to have a huge impact. Any thoughts?

< Message edited by janh -- 11/2/2012 6:15:55 PM >

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 271
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/2/2012 6:24:57 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3046
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: online
Since every one so cheerfull and supportive...

Hi Terje,

Where is the real Terje? and what have u done to him?

Any how glad to see that ur game as in skillz are progressing nicely. A far cry from the 42 campaign of last game. What can u say, attacking is every thing in this game.
Thats a nice AP drain and i guess that there was a reason to play on after the abysmal 41 campaign


Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 11/2/2012 6:25:57 PM >

(in reply to janh)
Post #: 272
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/2/2012 7:03:33 PM   
terje439


Posts: 6147
Joined: 3/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: glvaca

What you need to try and do is increase the distance between the pocket and the outside. That means attacking to the East.
The pocket itself can be held pretty easily on the inside (ie. facing the surrounded troops). On the outside, you need to push and create space. That's where you need the best and most troops.

Nice work!


Although I agree in theory, in reality I simply do not have the CV needed in my panzer/mechs topush east atm. Untill I get inf into the ring, I cannot push east.


Terje

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 273
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/2/2012 7:16:01 PM   
terje439


Posts: 6147
Joined: 3/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: janh

Awesome job, Terje. One of the most impressive pockets I ever saw. Curious as to how many units will add to the casualty list by the end. With that you've really turned around this game it would seem. Quite a show of skill, you'll have to pass on the "poorest Axis player" award I fear.

After blizzard you made some quite daring moves and create some breaches, especially down south. Seems like this is one example showing there's hope even if the summer 41 campaign goes well below average. In less than 10 turns you pushed the Red Army back by 150 miles or so in most areas, that's not that much slower than a year before... and chewed up a lot of units. That's already a lot better than I would have bet it ever to go at this stage. *scratches head* That makes me wonder whether Pelton will also succeed with his winter withdrawal strategy... might depend on whether the opponent follows so closely.

Another thing I noticed is how ordered and strong the opposition is you faced by turn 11-12 across the board. Hard to break, as you noticed, but possible. Looks very reasonable for the Red Army, though, if not to say realistic compared to what the Germans did face. After all, not for no reason the front went static before breaking the land bridge (and before sending PG2 to Kiev). Apparently in this game it makes a huge, very huge difference if you loose 3-4 turns within the first 8 ones? Most if not all games where the Axis got stuck, either mud, or unlucky rolls, or isolation of Panzers caused a number (>>2) turns time loss before the Djenpr around Kiev and the Smolensk sector were taken, usually after turn 11-12ish or so then. All these AARs show the Red Army putting up organzied lines again. The other bunch of AARs on the fast limit, like Michaels or Peltons typical ones, saw the Djenpr and landbridge or the Pskov region overrun by turn 7-8ish. Obviously 3-4 "faster" turns means the reinforcement schedule is overtaken by the Germans, and Russian lines in these AARs are thin and look widely spread out. The tempo seems to have a huge impact. Any thoughts?


Yes, I am now leaning towards that a non-perfect T1 and T2 by the Axis = fail unfortunately.
I think it has less to do with the reinforcement schedule and more with the time it takes to dig in and get a proper defense organized.
But then again, I still DO play a crappy Axis game, so no wonder my -41 was bad


Terje

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to janh)
Post #: 274
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/2/2012 7:17:16 PM   
terje439


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Joined: 3/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

Since every one so cheerfull and supportive...

Hi Terje,

Where is the real Terje? and what have u done to him?

Any how glad to see that ur game as in skillz are progressing nicely. A far cry from the 42 campaign of last game. What can u say, attacking is every thing in this game.
Thats a nice AP drain and i guess that there was a reason to play on after the abysmal 41 campaign


Kind regards,

Rasmus


Hey there Rasmus.
Well, not sure my skills are progressing that much (if you look at my -41 campaign^^). But there is ALWAYS a reason to keep playing, if for nothing else, then just for the love of gaming


Terje

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 275
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/2/2012 10:05:04 PM   
Tophat1812

 

Posts: 1631
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: online
Need some more closeup pics of the pocket corridor and whats happening north and south of it. Did any of those guards divisions participate in the reopening of the pocket?

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 276
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/3/2012 6:25:50 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

Need some more closeup pics of the pocket corridor and whats happening north and south of it. Did any of those guards divisions participate in the reopening of the pocket?


No, he used a cav corps + 2 normal inf divs and some artillery SUs, but only after he bombed Grossdeutchland 8 times. It was enought to make it retreat.


Terje

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to Tophat1812)
Post #: 277
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/3/2012 7:15:26 AM   
Tophat1812

 

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Status: online
Well if and I really do mean "if" he reopens the pocket he'll need more than that now to pull it off. Not sure he really wants to put his best units in that kind of position,but I really hope he does.

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 278
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/3/2012 7:19:30 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

Well if and I really do mean "if" he reopens the pocket he'll need more than that now to pull it off. Not sure he really wants to put his best units in that kind of position,but I really hope he does.


See below

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to Tophat1812)
Post #: 279
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/3/2012 7:27:33 AM   
terje439


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Turn 57

Overall
Finally we can start Operation Better Dead Than Red. The pocket held, and we start the process of eliminating it. The good thing is that this also freed up alot of units as the pocket diminished in size, and we were able to switch our weaker units to the rear, and attack eastwards with some of our units. Granted we only got a few hexes east, but it is enough for now, as that put some pressure on the USSR, and it even threathens some more units. If the USSR remains where they are, they will lose more units, so I anticipate a USSR writeoff of the pocket now. The USSR did launch one attack in an attempt to reopen the pocket, but the attack failed. We on the other hand launched no less than 210 attacks, for a result of 18 helds, 115 retreats, 13 routs, 1 shatter and 63 surrenders.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
I'll go with the aprox 250 number. Hard to be sure as my recons did not spot them all.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
134 spotted. Think there are still some hidden units in there, but not sure.

Losses
USSR : 556.000 troops, 7.420 guns, 496 AFVs, 160 AC.
Axis : 51.000 troops, 500 guns, 138 AFVs, 46 AC.

USSR units lost
43 rifle divisions, 1 guard rifle division, 5 tank brigades, 33 rifle brigades, 2 naval rifle brigades, 1 AT artillery brigade (675 AP).

Partisans hunted down
4

German pools
Manpower : 567
Vehicles : 204.525
Armaments : 153.139
Hiwi : 6







Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to janh)
Post #: 280
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/3/2012 7:42:36 AM   
Tophat1812

 

Posts: 1631
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: online
Some more pics showing the rest of the front please as well as closeups for those of us with poor eyes.

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 281
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/3/2012 7:45:33 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

Some more pics showing the rest of the front please as well as closeups for those of us with poor eyes.


Ok, will make some next turn as I am poor at remembering to make a "pre-end turn"-save.
*edit* but a quick summary;
-I pushed one hex out of Riga this turn
-I pushed the USSR back one hex pretty much all over the south front
-the USSR is shifting units from the north and south to cover Moscow


Terje

< Message edited by terje439 -- 11/3/2012 7:47:26 AM >


_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to Tophat1812)
Post #: 282
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/3/2012 10:54:36 AM   
glvaca

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439


quote:

ORIGINAL: glvaca

What you need to try and do is increase the distance between the pocket and the outside. That means attacking to the East.
The pocket itself can be held pretty easily on the inside (ie. facing the surrounded troops). On the outside, you need to push and create space. That's where you need the best and most troops.

Nice work!


Although I agree in theory, in reality I simply do not have the CV needed in my panzer/mechs topush east atm. Untill I get inf into the ring, I cannot push east.


Terje


Thrust me Terje, yes you can!
It will probably mean you will need to strip forces away from elsewere and temporarily have to accept some risks elsewhere too. The key ingredient is reinforcing the panzers with infantry. Take a look at your line, is there anywhere you could do with less in order to reinforce the point of decision? I am sure you can...

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 283
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/3/2012 10:59:55 AM   
glvaca

 

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Ah, nice job. It's in the "pocket" now
Now I'd recommend you take out the panzers, put them on rails in woods or swaps. Rest/refit & look for new opportunities.
It will drive the Russian player mad when he doesn't have a clue where the panzers are!

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 284
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/3/2012 11:50:33 AM   
juret

 

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I would strike very hard against orel / tule when the pocket is done with all the panzers. He will be forced to reinforce moscow south alot and then u can strike to SE and make another huge pocket of hes central/ south fronts.

Terje u have huge armys in the swamp. U need to correct that and march/ train those to needed areas before summer campaign is over and mud hits.

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 285
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/3/2012 12:34:22 PM   
mevstedt

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juret

I would strike very hard against orel / tule when the pocket is done with all the panzers. He will be forced to reinforce moscow south alot and then u can strike to SE and make another huge pocket of hes central/ south fronts.



Well played Terje and nicely done with the giant pocket.

Like Juret I feel the need to pitch in but would rather suggest you aim to get the russians out of the baltics as that would shorten your frontline. Striking north from the area just east of Vitebsk (towards Velikie Luki) should put some pressure on Brad and will likely force him to withdraw his entire baltic army or run the risk of another huge pocket.

Remember that part of the game is "psychological warfare" and he is likely not eager to risk losing another major chunk of his army.

If you do it decisively enough there should still be enough time for another strike elsewhere.

(in reply to juret)
Post #: 286
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/3/2012 2:57:33 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: glvaca

Thrust me Terje, yes you can!
It will probably mean you will need to strip forces away from elsewere and temporarily have to accept some risks elsewhere too. The key ingredient is reinforcing the panzers with infantry. Take a look at your line, is there anywhere you could do with less in order to reinforce the point of decision? I am sure you can...


Hehe things change quickly
At the time I did not have the strength to lash out east, but as the pocket grew smaller, more infantry was freed up, and less units was needed to hold the line, so now I did indeed push a little towards the east.
That being said, my panzers are in desperate need of a rest, but I will keep going if the siutation allows it.


Terje

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 287
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/3/2012 2:59:47 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: glvaca

Ah, nice job. It's in the "pocket" now
Now I'd recommend you take out the panzers, put them on rails in woods or swaps. Rest/refit & look for new opportunities.
It will drive the Russian player mad when he doesn't have a clue where the panzers are!


Noy just yet tbh, my panzers still have the chance to cut off some more guards divisions and a cav corps or two atm, so they will try to do so before they are rerouted. I might however put all up-to-strength(ish) panzer in one panzer army, and rotate the others to the other two panzer armies to rest.


Terje

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 288
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/3/2012 3:01:29 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juret

I would strike very hard against orel / tule when the pocket is done with all the panzers. He will be forced to reinforce moscow south alot and then u can strike to SE and make another huge pocket of hes central/ south fronts.

Terje u have huge armys in the swamp. U need to correct that and march/ train those to needed areas before summer campaign is over and mud hits.


The thing that favours this is ofc that the south is the best place for the panzers, but I am not sure yet. Going north has its advantages too.
If I did not have those units in the swamp, the pocket would not be what it was. The presence (and being unable to dislodge the USSR) was part of why the pocket came into being. I would have done the same again tbh.

Terje

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to juret)
Post #: 289
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/3/2012 3:03:24 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mevstedt

Well played Terje and nicely done with the giant pocket.

Like Juret I feel the need to pitch in but would rather suggest you aim to get the russians out of the baltics as that would shorten your frontline. Striking north from the area just east of Vitebsk (towards Velikie Luki) should put some pressure on Brad and will likely force him to withdraw his entire baltic army or run the risk of another huge pocket.

Remember that part of the game is "psychological warfare" and he is likely not eager to risk losing another major chunk of his army.

If you do it decisively enough there should still be enough time for another strike elsewhere.



The + side with going north is as you state, it threathens his Baltic armies, and it puts pressure on LG, which might have allowed me to free the Fins for once.
The - side is the terrain in the north. It is not ideal for panzers.

Not quite decided if I will strike N, E or S yet.


Terje

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to mevstedt)
Post #: 290
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/4/2012 7:16:04 AM   
terje439


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Turn 58

Overall
We keep reducing the pocket, but we also take the oppertunity to create a few small new ones. There seems to be an oppertunity towards the north at the moment as my infantry force the river defences. It does however require me to get infantry in to relieve the panzers towards Moscow. I doubt I can bring them in fast enough due to the lack of a proper railroad. The Luftwaffe is complaining about their supply situation as well, and they aborted alot of support missions this turn due to lack of fuel and bombs. The ground units ignored the whining of the LW though, and made 154 attacks this turn. The end result was 8 helds, 87 retreats, 9 routs, 1 shatter and 49 surrenders.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
137 spotted, more were in there.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
100 spotted.

Losses
USSR : 413.000 troops, 5.447 guns, 386 AFVs, 165 AC.
Axis : 47.000 troops, 376 guns, 86 AFVs, 82 AC.

USSR units lost
33 rifle divisions, 2 guards rifle divisions, 8 tank brigades, 22 rifle brigades (500 AP).

Partisans hunted down
8. Really annoying now.

German pools
Manpower : 509
Vehicles : 206.546
Armaments : 134.722
Hiwi : 9







Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 291
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/4/2012 7:16:40 AM   
terje439


Posts: 6147
Joined: 3/28/2004
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For Tophat






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 292
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/4/2012 7:17:05 AM   
terje439


Posts: 6147
Joined: 3/28/2004
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Heading south






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 293
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/4/2012 7:17:30 AM   
terje439


Posts: 6147
Joined: 3/28/2004
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You get the idea






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 294
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/4/2012 7:18:26 AM   
terje439


Posts: 6147
Joined: 3/28/2004
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More front






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 295
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/4/2012 7:19:07 AM   
terje439


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Almost there







Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 296
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/4/2012 7:19:50 AM   
terje439


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Two more after this






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 297
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/4/2012 7:20:20 AM   
terje439


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Soon now






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 298
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/4/2012 7:20:56 AM   
terje439


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Finally






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_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 299
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 11/4/2012 7:21:20 AM   
terje439


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Pocket






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_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 300
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