OT - best soldiers in WWII

[michaelbaldur]

which nationality had the best soldiers.

a nationality is one that have a separate country in wif

[Klydon]

Hmm. Probably need to better define maybe. Best solders as far as skill or equipment or ?? You could also use a time factor on it since the troop quality changed as the war went along.

Also, "separate country" can be confusing as well from the standpoint of view are you talking about a totally independent country or a country that has a counter mix, or? (Case in point, would the Canadians be a potential pick since they have a country on the map, counters in game, but are considered part of the Commonwealth force pool).

My pick overall would likely be the Germans of 1940-41.

[Redan]

In truth, the Russians fought Nazi Stormtroopers in their grandmother's bedroom. The Russians tore the guts out of the Germans, almost single handed.

[michaelbaldur]

so you think that the Germans and Russians had the best soldiers..


I see your point, but I really like the Indians. Jungle warfare is tough.

even though they were always babysit by British units (the 3th battalion in each Indian brigade was British)

[danlongman]

I hope this thread can generate something other than the "We're Number One!" rhetoric.
There were so many variables. Who consistently performed to the highest standard for the longest?
Who had the most tenacious infantry? Who had the most beans or bullets? Who were the best postwar revisionists?
Who owned Hollywood? What did the generals say? Rommel said once the New Zelanders were the best he fought.
Patton said the Canadians were the best of Montgomery's troops. Slim said the Japanese infantry were the best in
the world (if they had food). And etc. The Finns? If they hadn't been big in ASL not many would even think of them.
Except the Suomi. The Germans certainly win in the "Who made the most trouble for their neighbours" category.
Unless it was the Japanese because of the enormous size of China...and so it goes. Getting the things the soldiers needed
and delivering it to them on time certainly counts and no one did that better than the USA. The army itself is an organism
just like the soldier. There was nobody like Marshall, nobody like von Manstein, lots like Fredendall.... only one Mannerheim..
cheers

[Centuur]

What is the definition of "the best soldiers"? Personally I think you can't define this. Every nation which fought in the war had it's own qualities, being in training, equipment, tactics, heroic, disciplin en so on and on. I think you can't define this.

[morgil]

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur


which nationality had the best soldiers.

a nationality is one that have a separate country in wif

We could just ask, what nation has the better people, but in a attempt to come up with something, there are a few units that needs mentioning, because their collective effort and impact.
In my rather shortsighted view, SS Norrland, and the Soviet Nachthexen would be the top two units.

White Death, Samo Hayae (Spelling?), would probably be the top ranking soldier, along with that crazy japanese guy that fought on till the 60s or was it 70s.

[paulderynck]

The Canadians and Australians in WWI, but in WWII the Canadians were not led well after Normandy and suffered more casualties than they should have. Funny (or maybe obvious) that Patton would say the opposite of Montgomery about the Canadians.

In dozens of books I've read on WWII in Europe the almost unanimous opinion of the authors is that the German Army was the best fighting army of the 20th century. This is often cited as due to initiative, small unit cohesion and their NCOs.

[warspite1]

I think the Kiwis take some beating - definitely my favourites [&o][&o]

As has been said, there are so many variable that go into making an Army - fighting for something you truly believe in must rank high and therefore judging the poor Italian soldier needs to be looked at in that light.

Most armies had good and bad examples, but pound for pound, my vote would go to the Germans.

[keithrose]

therefore judging the poor Italian soldier needs to be looked at in that light.

Though of course many accounts of the desert war mention the extreme bravery of the Italian artillerymen, frequently dying by their guns.

[micheljq]

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur


which nationality had the best soldiers.

a nationality is one that have a separate country in wif

Now, let's complicate that a little.

Which nationality had the best navy.
Which nationality had the best aviation.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: micheljq

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur


which nationality had the best soldiers.

a nationality is one that have a separate country in wif

Now, let's complicate that a little.

Which nationality had the best navy.
Which nationality had the best aviation.

Early war or late war?

Navy by class of ships?

Avation by aircraft type or number of kills per pilot?

Frogmen - Decima MAS!

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: micheljq

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur


which nationality had the best soldiers.

a nationality is one that have a separate country in wif

Now, let's complicate that a little.

Which nationality had the best navy.
Which nationality had the best aviation.

warspite1

Best navy? For ships its the US Navy by some considerable distance. Best carriers (and aircraft for those carriers), battleships, cruisers - its just no contest.....
For personnel and in terms of doing wonders with what they had (and what they hadn't) its the Royal Navy.
Best aviation? USAAF and RAF are closer but USAAF win it. If you add in the naval air arms then the US simply increase that lead.

[Edfactor]

Best army or best soldier?
I would put a platoon of Germans up against anyone straight up, but if you look at the whole the U.S. is better because of their superior artillery and air support, and the Russians may be the best, they had as many planes and more artillery then the U.S. but neither was as good as the U.S. in quality, however they had the T-34 instead of the Sherman.

[michaelbaldur]

and in terms of doing wonders with what they had (and what they hadn't)

in all arms I think the Italians win that .. they were outclassed everywhere.

but they fought longer and better then anyone expected

and on that note. I really think that the Italian infantry units in WIF are to weak

[Shannon V. OKeets]

It seems to me that there are all kinds of conditional statements which could be added to the definition. For example:

Defending (against infantry, against armor)
Assaulting (prepared positions, cities)
Blitzing (prepared positions, retreating enemy units)
Paradrops
Invasions
In winter
In summer
In mud
In the jungle
Coordinating with allies
.
.
.

Many of these involve combined arms. There is also the issue of unit size: how far up the chain of command do we include officers?
---
WIF reflects a lot of these issues in special rules, as well as the combat factors of the various units.

[SirWhiskers]

Some of us are old enough to remember the Ballantine magazines History of the Second World War, published over 30 years ago. Unfortunately I no longer have them, so I can't quote directly, but here are some of the comments I remember from one article comparing the various armies.

Germans. Hands down the best due to superior leadership at all levels (except grand strategic). Their flexibility in combat was amazing - how many other armies could pull together a hodgepodge of units to repel major attacks, not once but many times?

Russians. The most tenacious, especially on defense.

Italians. Most underrated, but only when they had good leadership, which was extremely rare.

American. The first to run away in a firefight, but also the first to rally and come back swinging. Probably the least disciplined of the major powers.

British. Very rigid doctrine. Too often the soldiers were better than their leaders, especially in the higher ranks.

[Magpius]

9th Inf. Division (Australia)
These guys take some beating.
wikipedia-link

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: Edfactor

Best army or best soldier?
I would put a platoon of Germans up against anyone straight up, but if you look at the whole the U.S. is better because of their superior artillery and air support, and the Russians may be the best, they had as many planes and more artillery then the U.S. but neither was as good as the U.S. in quality, however they had the T-34 instead of the Sherman.

I think that as unit sizes changed you would get a different answer.

Many Armies changed in there abilities as the size of unit, quality of leaders, availability of support units and equipment changed.

[brian brian]

which has the best squads on Squad Leader counters?

Finland I think. Though I never made it far enough to actually punch out the counters in my copy of GI:Anvil of Victory, so I wouldn't know how things turned out in ASL.