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WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE.

 
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WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 8/29/2012 7:51:28 AM   
kirk23


Posts: 2126
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
Hi guys if you still play this game,please tell us here,plus let us know what you would like to see added to the game if possible,I could create scenario's that you would like to play,but you don't feel you can attempt on your own,either by letting me know what they are,or I could try to help you create one yourself.

Is there a specific aircraft you would like to see included?

Is there a ship or ships that you want added?

I just want to know roughly how many still are interested in playing this game?

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 8/29/2012 7:55:47 AM >


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RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 8/29/2012 8:11:51 AM   
Aces8


Posts: 2138
Joined: 2/4/2009
From: Ein Hashelosha, Hadarom, Israel
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Hi guys if you still play this game,please tell us here,plus let us know what you would like to see added to the game if possible,I could create scenario's that you would like to play,but you don't feel you can attempt on your own,either by letting me know what they are,or I could try to help you create one yourself.

Is there a specific aircraft you would like to see included?

Is there a ship or ships that you want added?

I just want to know roughly how many still are interested in playing this game?


I hate to say it Kirk but I think this game is dead. Tankerace has vanished and he was the key to the last patch which he lost in a HD failure. WITP AE is where the action is these day's. Orange is a finished product.

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(in reply to kirk23)
Post #: 2
RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 8/29/2012 10:52:21 AM   
kirk23


Posts: 2126
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
If I remember correctly Tankerace was working on this large update,before he lost the data due to a hard drive failure or something,well if Tankerace could do this,the potential to update upgrade this game is still a possible goal,all it takes is someone with know how and time,and this game could easily be of life support,this game uses the same AI as the WITP original game,and it still has a good following,because I think Admirals Edition goes too far for some of them,so if it has a strong enough pulse,then I feel War Plan Orange also deserves the chance to be enhanced as per Tankerace's original plans.His list here is extensive,just check out the link and see,someone within Matrix games must have the ability to do something,all it takes is desire,I'm willing to stand up and fight for War Plan Orange and help all I can but I can't do it all on my own,I offer my time and what little skill I may have art wise all free.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1683767


< Message edited by kirk23 -- 8/29/2012 10:56:16 AM >


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RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 8/29/2012 10:51:48 PM   
Connfire


Posts: 860
Joined: 7/18/2008
From: Connecticut, USA
Status: offline
I am still an active WPO player, through PBEM.

Look, I'm going to lay my cards on the table here. Tankerace did a great job converting the original WITP to WPO. His research was meticulous, and his promised last patch he teased us with, only to later say "no more patches, not now or probably ever", was a bitter disappointment. But taking a look at what the patch promised, most of it involved new weapon systems, new ships, airplanes, etc. WE ALREADY CAN DO ALL THAT! Kirk is the latest and probably greatest example of what a committed player can do with the editor.

What we need from Matrix is not more toys that we can come up with on our own, but to provide us with the things we cannot do. They seem to entirely miss the boat on the inherent strengths of WPO:

1) It is a true "alternate history", with the point of diversion happening in a year prior to the "war" breaking out, either in 1922 or 1926. Alternate history fiction has existed for over a hundred years, but with authors like Harry Turtledove growing in popularity, one would think that WPO would be in a perfect position to capitalize on this.

2) It is something completely different. We can't say - "oh well, it not like there isn't hundreds of other computer games that feature naval combat in 1920s", like for WWII. Matrix, you hold a valuable property here, why are you squandering it?!

3) The engine is 10 years old. Really, by today's standards, is it that complicated? Come on Matrix, you telling me you can't find an intern or entry level programmer who will work for practically nothing to upgrade WPO just to break into the industry and make a name for himself? At the very least, you'll keep your longtime customers happy. You might even be pleasently surprised if this improved Alternate History product does better then you might expect.

Here is what I would suggest Matrix do, that we can't:

a) Allow players more freedom to customize their PBEM games, such as:
i) Let players customize the warring sides. Why should it be the entire world vs. Japan? Was there not an Anglo-Japanese Alliance up to 1922? Why are we imposing an "Allies vs. Axis" theme on a 1920s game?
ii) Give players the opportunity to make Allied countries inactive unless attacked, like the USSR.

b) Allow players some degree of control over their aircraft production. This includes the types of aircraft produced, as well as some degree of their capabilities. I'd advocate a "Research and Development" phase - lets say you get one point every month which translates into upgrading a single capacity of your aircraft. You could apply it to existing aircraft (to a point) or develop your own models (which you'd be able to name). Think if it - you'd have your own little arms race with your opponent, just like happened in WWI and WWII. This would also compensate for the real-world lack of wartime experience going into 1920 aircraft designs.

c) Do implement the ship classes which Tankerace suggested, such as barges, patrol boats, AMC choices, etc. WPO has useless slots such as "Aircraft Transports" which betray its WITP roots, use those. Also, allow us more ship conversion options, as Tankerace wisely started. If I'm going to fight a four-and-a-half long war, I'd like some say over my fleet and aircraft composition.

d) Upgrade the AI. This can be done several ways:
i) Yes, consider converting the WPO engine to WITP. That would solve a lot of the problems there.
ii) If that is not feasible, how about opening up the forums to asking WPO players what their issues are, and then trying to change some of the hard-coding which are causing the problems? Again, this could be something an intern or entry level programer could do, or even get farmed out to a college or university at little or no cost.
iii) Developing an improved scenerio editor which has more control over the AI and its behavior.

The suggestion was made in an above post that WPO is dead. Well, with respect to the commitment of the company that continues to market the game, I reluctantly share that observation. Even the designer, (current wherabouts unknown), admits that the game required more tweaking, so I'd hesitate to call it a "finished product" - I'd guess its about 90% completed. Playable, but needlessly flawed. Players like Kirk have done an amazing job keeping WPO alive with new artwork and scenerios, but even he has about reached his limit.

Does Matrix consider WPO dead? They continue to sell the game. People continue to play it. Matrix has to know that the game still has the same flaws as WITP. If the current sales of WPO do not justify doing any more work to it, then perhaps they can release the code to players so we can improve the game ourselves? Matrix, your players do not want WPO to die. Do you want to kill it? Please, just be honest with us. Thank you for your time.

(in reply to kirk23)
Post #: 4
RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 8/30/2012 2:57:46 AM   
kirk23


Posts: 2126
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
Thats my boy give it to them with both barrels duck in coming

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RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 8/30/2012 3:03:05 AM   
kirk23


Posts: 2126
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Connfire

I am still an active WPO player, through PBEM.

Look, I'm going to lay my cards on the table here. Tankerace did a great job converting the original WITP to WPO. His research was meticulous, and his promised last patch he teased us with, only to later say "no more patches, not now or probably ever", was a bitter disappointment. But taking a look at what the patch promised, most of it involved new weapon systems, new ships, airplanes, etc. WE ALREADY CAN DO ALL THAT! Kirk is the latest and probably greatest example of what a committed player can do with the editor.

What we need from Matrix is not more toys that we can come up with on our own, but to provide us with the things we cannot do. They seem to entirely miss the boat on the inherent strengths of WPO:

1) It is a true "alternate history", with the point of diversion happening in a year prior to the "war" breaking out, either in 1922 or 1926. Alternate history fiction has existed for over a hundred years, but with authors like Harry Turtledove growing in popularity, one would think that WPO would be in a perfect position to capitalize on this.

2) It is something completely different. We can't say - "oh well, it not like there isn't hundreds of other computer games that feature naval combat in 1920s", like for WWII. Matrix, you hold a valuable property here, why are you squandering it?!

3) The engine is 10 years old. Really, by today's standards, is it that complicated? Come on Matrix, you telling me you can't find an intern or entry level programmer who will work for practically nothing to upgrade WPO just to break into the industry and make a name for himself? At the very least, you'll keep your longtime customers happy. You might even be pleasently surprised if this improved Alternate History product does better then you might expect.

Here is what I would suggest Matrix do, that we can't:

a) Allow players more freedom to customize their PBEM games, such as:
i) Let players customize the warring sides. Why should it be the entire world vs. Japan? Was there not an Anglo-Japanese Alliance up to 1922? Why are we imposing an "Allies vs. Axis" theme on a 1920s game?
ii) Give players the opportunity to make Allied countries inactive unless attacked, like the USSR.

b) Allow players some degree of control over their aircraft production. This includes the types of aircraft produced, as well as some degree of their capabilities. I'd advocate a "Research and Development" phase - lets say you get one point every month which translates into upgrading a single capacity of your aircraft. You could apply it to existing aircraft (to a point) or develop your own models (which you'd be able to name). Think if it - you'd have your own little arms race with your opponent, just like happened in WWI and WWII. This would also compensate for the real-world lack of wartime experience going into 1920 aircraft designs.

c) Do implement the ship classes which Tankerace suggested, such as barges, patrol boats, AMC choices, etc. WPO has useless slots such as "Aircraft Transports" which betray its WITP roots, use those. Also, allow us more ship conversion options, as Tankerace wisely started. If I'm going to fight a four-and-a-half long war, I'd like some say over my fleet and aircraft composition.

d) Upgrade the AI. This can be done several ways:
i) Yes, consider converting the WPO engine to WITP. That would solve a lot of the problems there.
ii) If that is not feasible, how about opening up the forums to asking WPO players what their issues are, and then trying to change some of the hard-coding which are causing the problems? Again, this could be something an intern or entry level programer could do, or even get farmed out to a college or university at little or no cost.
iii) Developing an improved scenerio editor which has more control over the AI and its behavior.

The suggestion was made in an above post that WPO is dead. Well, with respect to the commitment of the company that continues to market the game, I reluctantly share that observation. Even the designer, (current wherabouts unknown), admits that the game required more tweaking, so I'd hesitate to call it a "finished product" - I'd guess its about 90% completed. Playable, but needlessly flawed. Players like Kirk have done an amazing job keeping WPO alive with new artwork and scenerios, but even he has about reached his limit.

Does Matrix consider WPO dead? They continue to sell the game. People continue to play it. Matrix has to know that the game still has the same flaws as WITP. If the current sales of WPO do not justify doing any more work to it, then perhaps they can release the code to players so we can improve the game ourselves? Matrix, your players do not want WPO to die. Do you want to kill it? Please, just be honest with us. Thank you for your time.


Well if know one wants to reply to emails,we will just post where everyone can see the current state off affairs,this great game has been sadly overlooked,Matrix please spare just a few moments from your busy lives and at least post a reply in the War Plan Orange forum cheers!

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 8/30/2012 3:11:19 AM >


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RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 8/30/2012 6:00:51 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 32881
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From: Vermont, USA
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Hi Guys,

We would be happy to improve WPO further, but the development cycle for it ended quite a while ago, as with WITP which it was based on. The original programmer from Matrix (Michael Wood) who worked with TankerAce on WPO is no longer available. If there is interest in updating the game within the community, we're open to the idea. That kind of interest is what started WITP-AE.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 8/30/2012 6:15:43 AM   
kirk23


Posts: 2126
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
Ya beauty a Matrix visitor and post,It's not XMAS is it,nope still August just,well hopefully someone will step up to the plate,and help improve this great game that needs some tender loving care please anyone please.live long & Prosper Erik thanks for the visit.

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 8/30/2012 6:48:58 AM >


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RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 8/30/2012 3:25:17 PM   
Connfire


Posts: 860
Joined: 7/18/2008
From: Connecticut, USA
Status: offline
Erik,

Thank you for your reply. I remember over a year ago, back when Tankerace was still posting, the same player frustrations boiled over. Being one of the rookie players I tried to be the voice of reason. Now after some time has passed I'm one of the veterans, and now I'm one of the guys going nuts over the same frustrations.

Let me quickly introduce myself. I've been around, both in wargaming and in life in general, for quite awhile now. Erik, one thing I can't stand is someone who says "I have a great idea. You do this, this, and this, and I'll look over your shoulder and tell you if you're doing a good job or not". Just as it would be inconceivable for Matrix not to have any active WWII titles available, with regards to WPO, I would hope that Matrix would WANT to keep one of its most unique and innovative products alive. I agree that the WITP-WPO engine may have reached its practical limit. Is there any hope, any interest on Matrix' part, based upon past sales figures and current trends, to revive the WPO concept in an updated engine, such as WITP-AE or something else?

If not, then the saving grace seems to be a willingness on Matrix' part to allow the players to update the game themselves, as you said happened with AE. This is where my "I have a great idea..." quote stems from. I would offer to consider doing it myself, but even though I learn fast I'm old enough to have not grown up surrounded by computers, so my initial reaction is to be a little intimidated by the idea. If it is something which a person with common sense can figure out, I can probably consider it. If you require an advanced degree in computer programing, I must decline, though I'd be happy to help out however I can if someone else wants to take the lead.

If a skilled programer is needed, and one is not available to the WPO community, how feasible is my suggestion of farming it out to a college or university? This has the potential to be a great class or individual project. I see that like me you are a fellow New Englander, and I'm sure we both know there are literally hundreds of such institutions in New England alone. Would copyright, legal, or labor issues get in the way of this?

Lastly, I can only speak for myself, but I'm sure many others are reading this exchange. Could you please be a little more specific as to what kind of relationship Matrix would seek with an individual or group willing to consider updating WPO? Would we be updating the WITP-WPO engine, trying to convert to an existing one (like AE), or something else? Any information would be helpful.

Thank you for your time.

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Post #: 9
RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 8/30/2012 7:45:09 PM   
kirk23


Posts: 2126
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
Cheers Rob,I wonder if Matrix will now play a more active roll with this great game now?

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RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 8/30/2012 7:50:25 PM   
kirk23


Posts: 2126
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
What do we do now place an add for computer programmer wanted?

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RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 8/30/2012 8:27:38 PM   
tex


Posts: 204
Joined: 3/8/2009
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I agree with everything Connfire says here. When I first bought WPO ages ago I was very surprised even then to see what little support Matrix gives this great game. I finally tried modding the game myself, but I am not nearly as talented at that as others here. I was on the verge of giving up on the game when the late Graham Bennett (hellfirejet)came along and brought his unceasing energy into the game, molding it into something much more fun and really pushing its potential. All of this was ignored by Matrix and the mythical missing patch remained a dormant idea with no prospect of resurrection (btw, does anyone else think it odd that a professional game designer could lose so much work to a lost HD? The first thing I learned when working with computers was to back up my work! Maybe I am being naive). Then Graham really started making changes, some of which Matrix felt crossed the copy right line. Suddenly Tankerace was active in the forums and Graham was essential told to stop trying to make the game better. I found this response to be extremely distasteful, arrogant, and insulting. This poor support from Matrix and the tragic death of Graham took away my interest in this game. Then came Kirk...

It is not often in life we get a second chance, but Matrix has one now. They have present in this forum in the person of Kirk Hoggan a tireless worker who has done more for this game than even his uncle Graham. Kirk also happens to be an excellent artist as well and has shown here what he can do in that area, as well as scenario design. I believe Kirk would be a great choice to officially bring WPO to its full potential. And there are others on this forum, such as Connfire, who has already made some excellent suggestions, who would be great to add to the mix. Really, it is time for Matrix to get off the fence and either support this game or release the source code, otherwise continuing to sell it with its present lack of support is nothing short of a lie to the unwary consumer.

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Post #: 12
RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 8/30/2012 10:12:32 PM   
kirk23


Posts: 2126
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
Hi Tex so glad to see you back here again,many thanks for your kind words also,if Erik or anyone else from Matrix looks at this forum from time to time,I'm sure that they will see that the game is still a viable proposition,because either Connfire with his excellent AAR and myself doing new art work or scenarios,are trying to keep this game interesting.

I don't know how hard or how easy it would be for matrix to release a small update,for the game because the War Plan Orange sales page is way out of date.

The art work for the ships that come with the stock scenarios,have been completely redone,plus on top of that the German navy has 90% of the HIGH SEAS FLEET available ready to go for any new players wanting to create scenario's for themselves.

France,Italy,Austria,Russia/Soviet and Brazil even, have complete ready to go art work for ships of there Nations,which includes Dreadnoughts,Pre-Dreadnoughts,Battlecruisers,Armoured Cruisers etc etc etc.

On top of that the art work for the in game aircraft have been renewed and expanded,to include aircraft from,France,Germany,Italy,Soviet to name just a few,there is also a better editor that could be included in the update ie WITPEditorX.

I give full access to Matrix if they would like to use any of the stuff I have done,art or scenarios they can help themselves as long as it helps the game and the guys that play it.

By the way I offer all that I have done FREE I want nothing in return,except to see the game grow !

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 8/30/2012 10:38:59 PM >


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RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 8/31/2012 9:13:02 AM   
tex


Posts: 204
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Hi Kirk, for all you have done for this game I think it is time you stopped working for free and Matrix recognized your work with a paycheck!

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RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 8/31/2012 2:57:02 PM   
kirk23


Posts: 2126
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
Aye right enough Tex good thought but I'm really only interested in helping the game here,my work is 100% free .

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RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 8/31/2012 9:59:36 PM   
kirk23


Posts: 2126
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
Does anyone know if Tankerace has anything to do with War Plan Orange now?

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RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 9/1/2012 7:33:24 PM   
kirk23


Posts: 2126
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
Ok I'm really disappointed on the vote on who is playing this game,we finally get some feedback from Matrix and what do I see 4 players of the game including myself,and Aces8 thinks the game is dead and has no future,how do you expect Matrix to take us seriously if hardly anyone states that they play the game,so please I have gone to alot of time and trouble to improve this game,and I'm beginning to wonder if I'm wasting my time, not amused is putting it mildly come on post something!

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 9/1/2012 7:34:17 PM >


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RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 9/2/2012 2:06:19 AM   
pmbodkin

 

Posts: 7
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Kirk:

Please count me amoung the devoted WPO players!

Attention Matrix: I fit the profile of a WASP, with considerable disposal income. I don't think you want to ignore people like us.

Thanks,

PN Bodkin

(in reply to kirk23)
Post #: 18
RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 9/2/2012 6:40:46 AM   
Deathtreader


Posts: 706
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Vancouver, Canada.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Ok I'm really disappointed on the vote on who is playing this game,we finally get some feedback from Matrix and what do I see 4 players of the game including myself,and Aces8 thinks the game is dead and has no future,how do you expect Matrix to take us seriously if hardly anyone states that they play the game,so please I have gone to alot of time and trouble to improve this game,and I'm beginning to wonder if I'm wasting my time, not amused is putting it mildly come on post something!


Hi kirk23,

As I said earlier in one of your other postings I still fire WPO up occasionally, and like many others (most of whom are silent) really do appreciate all that you have done. I play WITP-AE rather more often as do many others, I suspect. In one of your fairly recent postings (I'm not sure which one as you are very prolific -- I say that with great respect by the way) you mention you too have acquired that game. Perhaps it is time for WPO to go the way of all things and for you to focus any further efforts you may care to make on the Admiral's Edition platform. I suspect this would widen your audience base in terms of potential users/enjoyers of all your efforts in modding and probably also induce Matrix to be rather more supportive as the AE version is much more recent and has a very large following.
Just my 2cents worth.

Regardless........ you have done an incredible amount of good work young man and for that I/we (all the silent ones) will always be in your debt.

Cheers!

Rob.

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Post #: 19
RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 9/2/2012 7:17:44 AM   
kirk23


Posts: 2126
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
Cheers guys all feedback is more than welcome,even negative feedback towards improving WAR PLAN ORANGE further,I just feel it's worth saving because no other game at present time,covers the Pre-Dreadnought,Dreadnought era in this way and in such detail,this game is different to WITP & WITP AE because they are dealing with refighting history,this game is a what if situation,and since I have added the entire British Royal Navy to the game all with new art work,as well as the whole of the German High Seas Fleet,along with the French,Italian,Austrian & Soviet fleets,this game has never been in a better position for gamers wanting to create a great many what if scenarios of their own,that is really only limited by their own imaginations.

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 9/2/2012 8:02:46 AM >


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RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 9/2/2012 8:36:30 AM   
kirk23


Posts: 2126
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
Here is a sample of the available German High Seas Fleet ships that are now available in game.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 9/2/2012 8:37:10 AM >


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RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 9/2/2012 11:01:23 AM   
Empire101


Posts: 1957
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Coruscant
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Here is a sample of the available German High Seas Fleet ships that are now available in game.





Great...I'll take a look...


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but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy.
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Post #: 22
RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 9/2/2012 1:20:31 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2239
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: online
Kirk was the one that sold me on getting the game. It plays different that what I expected and it has taken some getting used to. I have a feeling its a game geared towards a small niche group but if there are people in the community with the skills I hope it can be saved. I would buy a remake of this like I did with WITP AE.

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RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 9/2/2012 2:11:25 PM   
throttle8


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I'm in the same boat as oldman45. It was after seeing Kirk's beautiful work that drove me to purchase WPO. If it had not been for Kirk, I am 100% sure I would have never bought the game. After showing off Kirk's work to one on my regular PBEM opponent, he went out and purchased WPO, too!

Thanks a million Kirk!

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Post #: 24
RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 9/2/2012 6:37:30 PM   
Connfire


Posts: 860
Joined: 7/18/2008
From: Connecticut, USA
Status: offline
To all WITP guys who are posting: Thank you so much for your support. Although I'm one of the strange people who skipped the entire WITP phase, having gone straight from Pacific War to WPO, I'm well aware that my beloved game directly evolved from WITP, and that your past support and feedback is what made the wonderful Admiral's Edition possible. Without sounding too melodramatic, weighing in your support when the admittedly smaller WPO community is at a crossroads really means a lot to us.

To all WPO guys and Matrix people who are reading this: This topic now exists on the WITP boards as well - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3174605. It appears we may not be as "fringe" as we thought.

(in reply to throttle8)
Post #: 25
RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 9/2/2012 8:40:41 PM   
Xxzard

 

Posts: 440
Joined: 9/28/2008
From: Arizona
Status: offline
WPO is a fun game and huge departure to what one gets used to in WITP. I enjoyed it quite a bit, but it was quickly overshadowed by WITP: AE. AE's surface naval combat systems (mid-turn intercepts in particular) and the improved map scale just made the original WITP and WPO feel too obsolete to be enjoyable anymore. Additionally, there may have been some balance issues, the sort of thing that would have been addressed if there was a larger community to play test and give feedback on the game.

It's something of a shame too, considering the game is a very interesting alternative to WITP. Plus, the turns run faster without the extensive air combat routines.

I for one would like to see a WPO adaptation with the improved AE engine. I know that won't be easy, but that's what it would take for this game to be relevant again. On the other hand, at least the developer would have a somewhat more free hand in terms of troop displacements and ship deployments. Alternate history simulations benefit in that regard.

That's my 2c. I'd like to see it, but it really needs to be up to the level of AE to be competitive. I'd support someone who can make that happen.

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Post #: 26
RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 9/2/2012 9:47:36 PM   
kirk23


Posts: 2126
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
Thankyou one and all for your feedback, War Plan Orange needs alot of tender loving care to help it grow,Matrix has a good game that can become a great game, given time and a big bit of effort. I see Know reason why it can't be superb in fact,there is no other game on the market, that covers the Pre-Dreadnought,Dreadnought era with so much detail, as this game does at present,and that is before any form of update,I personally have tried my very best to take the game to another level,with what is available to me at the present time,but the AI desperately needs attention. But I can pledge here and now, to help the game grow in whatever form that may be,as I said before I can do art,but computer programming is beyond me.

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(in reply to Xxzard)
Post #: 27
RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 9/2/2012 10:46:46 PM   
Mobeer


Posts: 357
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline
I bought WitP and WPO in the same transaction. Initially I preferred WPO as more manageable with faster turns. Over time thought I have found WPO to be too empty to me. Though giving orders is faster, there are too many turns with ships just moving across the map and little if any combat. WPO also feels unbalanced against the Japanese.

Some little tweaks could help (e.g. calculating turns much faster when no combat occurs), but a new version to me would have to be some sort of WitP 2 expansion pack.

(in reply to kirk23)
Post #: 28
RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 9/3/2012 12:33:05 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6354
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline
If WPO was updated to AE standards I would have no problem buying it.

I still play WPO on occasions but the poor AI kills my games after a few weeks of game time.

(in reply to Mobeer)
Post #: 29
RE: WAR PLAN ORANGE PLAYERS VOTE. - 9/3/2012 4:06:58 AM   
kirk23


Posts: 2126
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
Yip that is the games achilles heal the poor AI,the 4 modules in the games scenario editor can be modded,but the instruction on how to do it correctly,are quite confusing,alter something too much and your screwed,plus with all the new stuff I have been adding,the biggest problem is the games AI does not know what to do with them,As an example I have added a very large naval fleet for the Soviets at Vlad,but the AI really just ignores them!

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