Matrix Games Forums

Happy Easter!Battle Academy is now available on SteamPlayers compare Ageods Civil War to Civil War IIDeal of the week - An updated War in the East goes half Price!Sign up for the Qvadriga beta for iPad and Android!Come and say hi at Pax and SaluteLegends of War goes on sale!Piercing Fortress Europa Gets UpdatedBattle Academy Mega Pack is now availableClose Combat: Gateway to Caen Teaser Trailer
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Just got rejected

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Just got rejected Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Just got rejected - 8/23/2012 11:00:34 PM   
gdrover

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/4/2008
Status: offline
I just placed an order for Afrika Korps and received an email that said that they would not process my order due to 'Previous Chargeback'.
Not sure what that means, but I'm pretty annoyed.
I have purchased dozens of games from Matrix over the years and never had an issue.

Here's the email I got:
Thank you for submitting your order for Panzer Corps: Afrika Korps-Physical with Free Download using Plimus. Unfortunately we are unable to approve your order at this time because of the following:

Previous Chargeback

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, if you feel you are receiving this message in error, or if you wish to submit relevant information to your case, please contact us at: sales@plimus.com, otherwise no further action is required.

Important: The credit card submitted will not be charged for this order.

Regards,
Plimus Sales
Post #: 1
RE: Just got rejected - 8/23/2012 11:02:18 PM   
gdrover

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/4/2008
Status: offline
Does this mean that I can't buy games from Matrix any longer or that their delivery partner is just incompetent?

(in reply to gdrover)
Post #: 2
RE: Just got rejected - 8/23/2012 11:34:21 PM   
flanyboy

 

Posts: 1354
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gdrover

Does this mean that I can't buy games from Matrix any longer or that their delivery partner is just incompetent?


Not sure what Chargeback means... did you try more than once? It could have been a system generated error...

(in reply to gdrover)
Post #: 3
RE: Just got rejected - 8/24/2012 12:27:13 AM   
Capn Darwin


Posts: 3716
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: online
It could be another purchase with plimus that was bad. Also a chance they have a bad record or someone used your number at some point to "buy" something from a plimus retailer.



_____________________________

2.04 update in progress , working on Mod Guide 4.

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations Developer,
and resident Rocket Scientist

(in reply to flanyboy)
Post #: 4
RE: Just got rejected - 8/24/2012 2:46:09 AM   
gdrover

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/4/2008
Status: offline
Have never bought anything from Plimus before. Don't even know who they are.

Suffered from credit card fraud a while ago, but my bank caught it and issued me a new card.
I used the new card, which has worked everywhere else.

(in reply to Capn Darwin)
Post #: 5
RE: Just got rejected - 8/24/2012 3:44:07 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6325
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline
Plimus is part of a much much larger payment network. It is possible that during your CC fraud that it was used to purchase something from the parent company in your name and then the CC company asked for a charge back.

Your best resort might be to call them and try and work it out over the phone.

In any event, good luck. Plimus is one of the worst payment processing companies I have dealt with in my history on the internet.

(in reply to gdrover)
Post #: 6
RE: Just got rejected - 8/24/2012 5:30:47 AM   
gdrover

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/4/2008
Status: offline
I just did a search on Plimus and it looks like the customer complaints are off the chart, from their crazy robot phone verification system, to their customer service, it appears that they are, indeed, very hard to deal with.

Way to go Matrix/ Slitherine. Take a niche business and make it harder for your loyal customers to buy your products.

Well, I was planning on picking up all the Panzer Corps expansions. I guess I can't.
Very frustrating and annoying.

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 7
RE: Just got rejected - 8/24/2012 7:42:25 AM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2193
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline
"Well, I was planning on picking up all the Panzer Corps expansions. I guess I can't.
Very frustrating and annoying. "

Well that clearly sucks, aren't the DLC's available anywhere else? Because AK is worth the dollars IMHO.


(in reply to gdrover)
Post #: 8
RE: Just got rejected - 8/24/2012 1:24:04 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2203
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: online
I thought it's going to be a romance thread.

_____________________________

Without social solidarity manifested in the form of welfare state, people inhabiting one territory are a non-nation of mortal enemies engaged in competition for survival.

(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 9
RE: Just got rejected - 8/24/2012 4:28:19 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 32552
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
Hi GDRover,

Please contact us through the Help Desk, or e-mail me at erikr@matrixgames.com with your order information. We'll work with Plimus to figure out what's going on.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 10
RE: Just got rejected - 8/24/2012 6:35:30 PM   
Scott_WAR

 

Posts: 1018
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline
Matrix.....Erik.....whoever.....we get these posts at a rate that seems to prove what many have said. That plimus,....well.....sucks. PLEASE,...have a ittle more concern for your customers and find a company thats worth a crap please.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 11
RE: Just got rejected - 8/24/2012 9:21:05 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3434
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gdrover
Does this mean that I can't buy games from Matrix any longer or that their delivery partner is just incompetent?


So what happened when you felt you were "receiving this message in error" and contacted them at "sales@plimus.com"? Have you had a response yet? What was it?

This stuff happens on occasion when using credit cards online; if it hasn't to you before you have been lucky.


(in reply to gdrover)
Post #: 12
RE: Just got rejected - 8/24/2012 11:33:50 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

Posts: 489
Joined: 6/23/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Matrix.....Erik.....whoever.....we get these posts at a rate that seems to prove what many have said. That plimus,....well.....sucks. PLEASE,...have a ittle more concern for your customers and find a company thats worth a crap please.

And what rate is that? Perhaps 1 every couple of weeks is what I see on the forums. Do you have any idea the number of transactions which take place painlessly over that time period? Lots. Any payment processor is going to throw up some number of false positives, or wrong results. And it will only appear to suck to those to whom it happens - and we (and especially Erik and Iain) work tirelessly to solve these small number of problems as quickly as possible.

Cheers

Pip


(in reply to Scott_WAR)
Post #: 13
RE: Just got rejected - 8/25/2012 2:24:33 AM   
gdrover

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/4/2008
Status: offline
My respnse to Plimus was:
I had some credit card fraud a couple of months ago. I was traveling on business so my wife dealt with our bank. She stopped payment on a couple of charges that she did not recognize. It became apparent to me when i reviewed them that a couple of these were legitimate charges.
If you can communicate what the transaction was and what it was for, I would like to make sure that a new payment is made.

Their response back was:
Thank you for your email.

Our records show a chargeback was placed against Plimus (ref XXXXXXXX) on 06/25/2012. Unfortunately, due to this chargeback, Plimus policy states no future order can be processed.

**NOTE**

A chargeback is a professional term in financial terminology. It means a direct reversal of payment through one's bank or credit card company. Only the customer, the bank and the credit card company can initiate such a reversal. For example, the customer may reverse a charge by getting in touch with their bank and asking for a chargeback to be issued; or a bank might issue a chargeback if not enough funds were available on an already-completed transaction.
While issuing a chargeback, heavy fines are incurred on the company that billed the customer. Instead, the customer should have made contact with the company and asked for a refund.
We hope this clarifies the issue. Feel free to contact us for more information.
We apologize for the inconvenience and appreciate your understanding.

Thank you.

Regards,
Aidan-Plimus Support


(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)
Post #: 14
RE: Just got rejected - 8/25/2012 2:34:33 AM   
gdrover

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/4/2008
Status: offline
So, I communicated what happened, which was that there were a couple (two) legit charges that got lumped in with the real fruad and were 'charged back' by my bank.
My poor wife had freaked out when she was on the phone with the fraud protection rep and when didn't recognize these two online charges (they were my online gaming/ hobby purchases), she told the rep that they weren't ours. Since I was on an airplane at the time, she couldn't reach me.

Anyway, as you can see above, I tried to explain this in short to Plimus and even offered to pay for whatever was refused.

Their answer was to politely tell me that they would not allow me to ever purchase anything online again with anyone that they serviced.

O.K.

So Erik's offer is great and much appreciated.

Pip's was not so helpful.

Pip - This was not a 'false positive or a wrong result'. This is a service provider who is hurting your business, and is obviously not customer service oriented.
You need to realize that of those people that complain here on the forums, there are likely 10 times that that had a bad experience that you didn't hear about.
A bad or frustrating experience will steadily erode your loyal customers.


(in reply to gdrover)
Post #: 15
RE: Just got rejected - 8/25/2012 2:46:51 AM   
gdrover

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/4/2008
Status: offline
Perhaps a poll of users here on the forum could shed some light on the extent of the discontent with Plimus.

If this is just a rare occurance, and normal for any service provider, then that would show up...but if, as I suspect, there are many, many unhappy customers, then that might be indicated as well...

(in reply to gdrover)
Post #: 16
RE: Just got rejected - 8/25/2012 3:31:08 AM   
OldSarge


Posts: 94
Joined: 11/25/2010
From: Albuquerque, NM
Status: offline
I think that Plimus is acting with prudence. Until they establish the facts of the situation they have to consider the card number as tainted. A charge back is a telltale that the card has been compromised.

Sorry, I know you don't want to hear this, but that is actual a sign of a good merchant. The fact that they are doing this is actually a sign that they are proactive in protecting their customers.

Relax! Let Erik get you information and it'll be corrected. Life is too short to get worked up over these kind of things.

< Message edited by OldSarge -- 8/25/2012 3:32:09 AM >


_____________________________

Short 60 percent infantry; 90 percent artillery.
Combat efficency: excellent.
LTC Robert Wienecke, 82nd Airborne Division
G-3 report, evening June 6, 1944

(in reply to gdrover)
Post #: 17
RE: Just got rejected - 8/25/2012 6:17:08 AM   
Scott_WAR

 

Posts: 1018
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine


quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Matrix.....Erik.....whoever.....we get these posts at a rate that seems to prove what many have said. That plimus,....well.....sucks. PLEASE,...have a ittle more concern for your customers and find a company thats worth a crap please.

And what rate is that? Perhaps 1 every couple of weeks is what I see on the forums. Do you have any idea the number of transactions which take place painlessly over that time period? Lots. Any payment processor is going to throw up some number of false positives, or wrong results. And it will only appear to suck to those to whom it happens - and we (and especially Erik and Iain) work tirelessly to solve these small number of problems as quickly as possible.

Cheers

Pip




Yes about every other week sounds about right. Before Plimus, there were complaints about Digital River,...but even at its worst it was rarely more than once a month. So,....basically we see twice as many complaints...at least.....a 100% worse record............

Now, its still true that a lot of buys go through with no problem at all,........but when people are complaing more with the new service,....you have to wonder if it was really a good move.

This is nothing to do with the service from Erik, you and others here Pip,.........you guys do an outstanding job of cleaning up the problems,.....but you shouldnt have to be doing so much cleaning.

< Message edited by Scott_WAR -- 8/25/2012 6:21:58 AM >

(in reply to gdrover)
Post #: 18
RE: Just got rejected - 8/25/2012 6:25:55 AM   
Hertston


Posts: 3434
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OldSarge
I think that Plimus is acting with prudence. Until they establish the facts of the situation they have to consider the card number as tainted. A charge back is a telltale that the card has been compromised.


Sorry gdrover, but I agree. It's a perfectly reasonable policy when you consider the nature of the goods sold, i.e. downloadable software. Steam allegedly go even further (rather more dubiously so, IMHO) in locking your whole account.

Obviously the whole business is unfortunate, and the person really responsible is the fraudster, but the fact remains that legitimate payments were charged back on the card-holders say-so even if the mistakes were perfectly understandable in the circumstances. There's only so much the credit card company can do to prevent that. Hopefully Matrix and Plimus can sort it out between them now the facts are known but it's pretty clear why a simple phone or email explanation might not suffice. What would happen to the Plimus advisor if they cancelled a block on a the basis of a customer's unverified sob story, only for that customer to buy more games only to cancel payment again?


< Message edited by Hertston -- 8/25/2012 6:34:21 AM >

(in reply to OldSarge)
Post #: 19
RE: Just got rejected - 8/25/2012 9:28:59 PM   
gdrover

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/4/2008
Status: offline
I can't agree for a couple of reasons:

1) In this world of online purchasing and digital goods, there are bound to be transactions that go awry one way or another. The smart thing to do is to err on the side of taking care of the customer. The real cost of digital goods is nominal. The cost of alienating customers by making the process of online purchases, and resolving issues, harder than than they need to be, is much higher. Plimus's system seems to force users to jump through needless hoops even when things go well. When there is a challenge, their automated 'customer service' is frustrating and useless.

2) I offered to rectify the mistake and Plimus told me to take a flying leap; that they didn't want my business. This would be understandable if a user was a repeat offender, or the chargeback was for a sizable sum, but that's not the case.

I guess we'll see what Erik can do, but rectifying this will still cost Erik and I time and aggravation...obviously the service provider is not providing good service.

(in reply to Hertston)
Post #: 20
RE: Just got rejected - 8/25/2012 9:32:49 PM   
gdrover

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

I think that Plimus is acting with prudence. Until they establish the facts of the situation they have to consider the card number as tainted. A charge back is a telltale that the card has been compromised.

Sorry, I know you don't want to hear this, but that is actual a sign of a good merchant. The fact that they are doing this is actually a sign that they are proactive in protecting their customers.


They made no effort to 'establish the facts of the situation'. Even when I explained the situation and offered to pay the rejected sum, they told me to bugger off.

How is that being a good merchant?

BTW - The old, compromised card is long gone and I used a brand new card for this transaction, so it had nothing to do with protecting customers.

(in reply to gdrover)
Post #: 21
RE: Just got rejected - 8/25/2012 9:56:38 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3025
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gdrover
They made no effort to 'establish the facts of the situation'. Even when I explained the situation and offered to pay the rejected sum, they told me to bugger off.


U clearly havent worked in larger "sales" oriented cooperations. Assumption is that ppl are the floor arent to clever and that any one can/should be able to do that job. While this ofc isnt the said line, its how it works in pratice. So they construct manuals that said workers cant deviate from and if they do they get a slap on the wrist. Top management if alerted to such a situasion is ofc outraged at the lack of independant initiative while not understanding or caring that they infact have created the system them selfs.

quote:


How is that being a good merchant?


Its not, but see above.

quote:


BTW - The old, compromised card is long gone and I used a brand new card for this transaction, so it had nothing to do with protecting customers.


Yeah, but its the same name as on the old card, presumably. So u are blocked, periode. U have been labeled a "fraud" and then systems try to protect them selfs. Dont get me wrong i sympazise with ur situasion. U just caught in a bureacracy where independant thinking isnt "allowed".

Best advise i can give is talk to Erik Rutins. Let him know the full situasion and see if he cant figur out stuff with plimus. Else u will need to talk to some one higher up the bureacracy that is allowed to make decisions. Thats not even a sure thing, depending on that person u get hold of and as as an individual u have no leverage with the company. I would think Erik has a better chance, as he has more leverage,

I know ur mad at them and as said i understand that. Non the less u and ur wife has some of the "blame". U tho unwittingly toke some valid transactions back. Tho an error it had implications. Do i agree in those implications no, but if u see it from plimus's side. They have to try and protect them selfs from fraud too. This is the way, tho not a particular customer error friendly way.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 8/26/2012 10:31:59 PM >

(in reply to gdrover)
Post #: 22
RE: Just got rejected - 8/25/2012 11:17:28 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1476
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gdrover

I can't agree for a couple of reasons:

1) In this world of online purchasing and digital goods, there are bound to be transactions that go awry one way or another. The smart thing to do is to err on the side of taking care of the customer. The real cost of digital goods is nominal. The cost of alienating customers by making the process of online purchases, and resolving issues, harder than than they need to be, is much higher. Plimus's system seems to force users to jump through needless hoops even when things go well. When there is a challenge, their automated 'customer service' is frustrating and useless.

2) I offered to rectify the mistake and Plimus told me to take a flying leap; that they didn't want my business. This would be understandable if a user was a repeat offender, or the chargeback was for a sizable sum, but that's not the case.

I guess we'll see what Erik can do, but rectifying this will still cost Erik and I time and aggravation...obviously the service provider is not providing good service.


Why not looking for a workaround? Like utilizing another CC (wifes / friends one) or open a Paypal account with your card.

(in reply to gdrover)
Post #: 23
RE: Just got rejected - 8/25/2012 11:26:37 PM   
Jevhaddah


Posts: 551
Joined: 11/24/2005
From: Scotland
Status: offline
Why should he have to jump through hoops? He explaned the error and offered to pay.

No law or rule should be absolute.

Matrix have lost this sale and it would apear ALL future sales from this customer due to Plimus's inflexibilty.

Cheers

Jev

_____________________________

I am really quite mad yoo know!

(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 24
RE: Just got rejected - 8/26/2012 11:50:52 PM   
gdrover

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/4/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow


quote:

ORIGINAL: gdrover

I can't agree for a couple of reasons:

1) In this world of online purchasing and digital goods, there are bound to be transactions that go awry one way or another. The smart thing to do is to err on the side of taking care of the customer. The real cost of digital goods is nominal. The cost of alienating customers by making the process of online purchases, and resolving issues, harder than than they need to be, is much higher. Plimus's system seems to force users to jump through needless hoops even when things go well. When there is a challenge, their automated 'customer service' is frustrating and useless.

2) I offered to rectify the mistake and Plimus told me to take a flying leap; that they didn't want my business. This would be understandable if a user was a repeat offender, or the chargeback was for a sizable sum, but that's not the case.

I guess we'll see what Erik can do, but rectifying this will still cost Erik and I time and aggravation...obviously the service provider is not providing good service.


Why not looking for a workaround? Like utilizing another CC (wifes / friends one) or open a Paypal account with your card.


I certainly could (and will if necessary), but as I said, I am a frequent customer (and big supporter) of Matrix Games. I don't want to have to have to ask a friend to order for me every time I want a game.

Secondly, as a fan of Matrix and Slitherine, I want them to continue to be successful. If they are tied to a service provider that is hurting their business, better that they should know about it so they can take the proper action before it does any real damage.

G

(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 25
RE: Just got rejected - 8/27/2012 12:05:23 AM   
danlongman

 

Posts: 385
Joined: 3/27/2012
From: Over the hills and far away
Status: offline
I have accumulated many Matrix and Slitherine products over the years.
When I have had a problem I have always dealt directly with Matrix and Slitherine to my
complete satisfaction. When possible I just leave Plimus out of the loop. I do not
know if the customer is a big part of their equation or not. They just move a huge volume
of money and mechandise. The fraud issue is one of their major concerns.

_____________________________

"Patriotism: Your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to gdrover)
Post #: 26
RE: Just got rejected - 8/28/2012 10:43:59 AM   
Iain McNeil


Posts: 1878
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline
Hi Glenn

we understand how these things can happen and I'm sure we can fix it but I just want to clarify exactly what happened for everyone so people don't attack PLimus unjustly!

Glenn placed an order on the 20th May 2012 for Conflict of Heroes. This was an order for a physical copy of the game which as you know gets manufactured on demand. Glenn then authorized a chargeback against the order with his credit card company.

Just to clarify - this isn't the first time Glenn has bought from Plimus, so maybe he was ordering from them without realising they are the payment provider. Glenn has placed 7 other orders without issues : 2 on 19th Feb 2011, 13th May 2011, 11th June 2011, 7th Nov 2011, 18th, Nov 2011 and 23rd August 2012.

The order was delivered and we have proof of delivery so we disputed the chargeback. The delivery address matches the previous orders for Glenn so we can only assume it did get through. The dispute on the chargeback should have come back to Glenn for clarification a few days/weeks later but it appears it did not or his wife confirmed the chargeback, but we don't get to see any of their communication with the customer and all we see is the chargeback dispute was rejected by the card company, probably because they had proof of actual fraud going on at the same time.

As a result we lost the value of the game, the cost of producing the game, the cost of posting the game to you and the chargeback fee and a fine for disputing the chargeback. This adds up to a substantial loss on our part. We understand it was a genuine mistake but it still has us out of pocket for around $80-$100 - I need to work out the actual final cost.

An automatic block is put on all accounts in these circumstances for obvious reasons. The fear is you will place another order and we will receive another charge back so we need to protect ourselves. Plimus have done exactly what they should in this situation so I don't think we can fault them here. They are trying to protect us.

Hope this clarifies the situation for everyone.

We absolutely want to resolve this with you Glenn. You say you're willing to make the payment again so I think the easiest thing will be to place a new order over the phone to clear the old payment and the new one. If you'd like to set up a time for the call please let me know by contacting info@slitherine.co.uk. Alternatively you can contact your credit card company and tell them you made a mistake and they can refund us the fines and clear the original payment. Once this resolves the block can be removed and we can continue to deliver you the games you love to play!




_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Slitherine Software
Website http://www.slitherine.com

(in reply to danlongman)
Post #: 27
RE: Just got rejected - 8/28/2012 5:26:24 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1294
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline
You guys should take this offline. I don't believe it's appropriate to discuss a particular members purchase history on a public forum.

(in reply to Iain McNeil)
Post #: 28
RE: Just got rejected - 8/28/2012 5:42:06 PM   
Treale


Posts: 1236
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: carnifex

You guys should take this offline. I don't believe it's appropriate to discuss a particular members purchase history on a public forum.


The OP started it in public!!

_____________________________

Tony

(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 29
RE: Just got rejected - 8/28/2012 8:35:45 PM   
gdrover

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/4/2008
Status: offline
Thanks Ian,

Sent you a PM to resolve.

Just to be clear, I'm not upset with Plimus for blocking further transactions to begin with, but rather for being unresponsive to my desire to clear up the mistake.

Ridiculous and shoddy customer service. The increase in fraud driven by the growth in online custom requires MORE and better communication with customers, not less. Many thanks for spending your time on this. Seems you shouldn't have to though...You are Plimus' customer, and they don't seem to be working well for you in this regard.

(in reply to Treale)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Just got rejected Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.121