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RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing

 
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RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 6/23/2013 9:48:57 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4534
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline

quote:

If you have not read my posts from many locations, much of this will not make sense, don't worry about that,


I have not, not much - but thats independent on the context you are referring to, I don´t.

quote:

Note this is a reply on the concept you are discussing, although the fact that it is posted in a different context, yet is about the same event, shows coordination, with plausible deniability of correlation.


I think theres a misunderstanding. I am not discussing the concept itself. I am just relating the concept to a specific situation in WitP AE. It does not leave much room for discussion. Discussing that specific concept without context would be rather trivial.

quote:

You get a good thinking award for making the distinction of cause and effect of mutual actions in space and time.


A WHAT?

quote:

Therefore we proceed to a comment by John Locke, two people with the same idea at the same moment are essentially the same person. However, they were not the same person when moving to that action in space time, nor when moving away if on different paths.


I respect John Locke for his thoughts on politics and religion and state. It is also correct that philosophical statements like the one above were meaningful and revolutionary in the 17th century, when the term "conciousness" still was undefined outside a religious framework.

But nowerdays such philiosophical statements - like the one above made in a quest to define "conciousness" - often are either plain wrong, or banal, depending on the interpretation. In this specific case whether the statement is wrong or banal (or impossible) depends on whether a weak or strong interpretation for "two people with the same idea at the same moment" is used.

Weak: The term is used to describe two people with roughly the same line of thought at a specific moment in time. In this case they are neither the same person, nor essentially the same person, nor do they have the same thought. You might as well say a person owning a Dogde Viper and a person owning a Ford Mustang own essentially the same car. The statement is plain wrong.

Strong: The term is used to describe two people with exactly the same electrochemical process going on in their brains at the same location in spacetime. In this case the statement is either banal or describes an impossibility. Banal, because in our physical universe the above is only possible in case we are really talking about ONE single person, as for two distinct people it will be impossible to meet the required criteria, or impossible if the philospher insists that he/she is referring to two distinct people.

The only way out of that trap would be separating the term "conciousness" from any physical boundaries or dependencies, and by doing so to enter the realm of religion, where empirical proof has no value and the discussion gets meaningless.

For more such examples of wrong/banal statements of (postmodern) philosophers I reccommend reading "Fashionable Nonsense" by Alan Sokal/Jean Bricmont, that was written as a reaction to the so-called Sokal affair. A very amusing read.



quote:

Two people coming to the same conclusion do not define the same source or cooperation, it only defines a form of meeting in some ethereal space where the same idea occurred in thoughts of multiple people simultaneously.

From that we can ponder the question, are people connected when in correlation, is it coordination, or is it swarm, where each acts independently, but by the some same pathing end up at the same location at the same time with a similar action or intent.[...]


As for the rest, I agree it is sometimes entertaining to ponder on similar concepts, but with regards to coordination vs. correlation it can be defined in a short sentence, with or without context. There is no need to make things more comlicated than they are.

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to DHRedge)
Post #: 31
RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 6/23/2013 11:03:28 AM   
DHRedge

 

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Joined: 1/18/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron
There is no need to make things more comlicated than they are.


Funny thing, I always think I am making them simpler not more complicated.
Although thanks for the response,
mostly I was pondering on the correlations in your posts to other topics, while you were discussing correlation and coordination.

Can't get more coordinated then that.

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 32
RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 6/23/2013 12:18:03 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4534
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DHRedge
If you have not read my posts from many locations, much of this will not make sense, don't worry about that, it does make sense to those that have been reading my posts over the last years.

Note this is a reply on the concept you are discussing, although the fact that it is posted in a different context, yet is about the same event, shows coordination, with plausible deniability of correlation.

You get a good thinking award for making the distinction of cause and effect of mutual actions in space and time.

Two people coming to the same conclusion do not define the same source or cooperation, it only defines a form of meeting in some ethereal space where the same idea occurred in thoughts of multiple people simultaneously.

From that we can ponder the question, are people connected when in correlation, is it coordination, or is it swarm, where each acts independently, but by the some same pathing end up at the same location at the same time with a similar action or intent.

Therefore we proceed to a comment by John Locke, two people with the same idea at the same moment are essentially the same person. However, they were not the same person when moving to that action in space time, nor when moving away if on different paths. So do events create situations, or do the multitude of possibilities create the illusion of coordination inside of correlation. (also why these events model 'nuclear' effects since they are far more then what would be found as a average mass at one point in space and time (Crossing the streams from Ghost Busters))

It should also be noted, coordination above correlation is about the 'Tess' Model. Or the person that understands it, is in a coordinating role, or closer to the source that instigates action. However all the pieces are usually only seen by the 'Tess' and from that it looks random or like correlation, for those that do not have both the personal experience of an event, and the correlating other pieces that form the mosaic that tells the story and shows actual coordination.

If someone can find the correlations above some rate of randomness, then coordination does exist, basic chaos theory, order in the noise. If bees swarm, that is coordination by the fact that a swarm is at some location at some time. Note removing limitations of linear time makes it much easier, where something like stop action filming could photograph 1000 bees at some correlating location and action, and then show them all in the same picture, by sequencing the events outside of linear time, and by that create an event outside of linear time that shows a level of coordination when it could be correlation.

Although outside of linear time is a presumption that item creation is the intended act of correlation, it is also possible that the intent of the object creation is to be seen in a swarm in some replay outside of its linear time when it was created. The idea of preparatory work where components to form a coordinated action are all moving from different distances in time to arrive in the same sequence of some posting.

Side note, nobody has to believe in coordination if they don't want to, however, I am due beer and travel money and the fact that I can find the information is enough to show that it is coordinated.

I could also add the correlation that your argument is something my uncle would say,
Lo Ba Ron, Or I could again repeat the Bar requirements I have been specifying, Lo Bar On, in each another correlation appears, is it coordinate? at what point does the statistics over weight the skepticism. Note the intent is not to show the form, but to show the form exists. And of coarse, from that the realization that money must be sent to me will be clear to anyone reading all the posts. However not knowing about 'the bar' or 'my uncle' would not make the correlation visible to anyone else.

You would have to have the cumulative data of all my posts and experiences to see the significance of the correlations responding to this location in time. What I call checking in, and what is also usually called advisors giving different opinions from within the fog.







quote:

ORIGINAL: DHRedge
Funny thing, I always think I am making them simpler not more complicated.



To discuss the concept of self-delusion now would venture a bit too far off topic.

quote:


Although thanks for the response,
mostly I was pondering on the correlations in your posts to other topics, while you were discussing correlation and coordination.

Can't get more coordinated then that.


You are welcome. If you plan to skip some of the more cryptic statements and philosophical debaucheries for above sense of humor and content, this might even have the potential for some interesting discussions.


_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to DHRedge)
Post #: 33
RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 6/23/2013 9:12:16 PM   
DHRedge

 

Posts: 148
Joined: 1/18/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

To discuss the concept of self-delusion now would venture a bit too far off topic.


You are welcome. If you plan to skip some of the more cryptic statements and philosophical debaucheries for above sense of humor and content, this might even have the potential for some interesting discussions.



Self delusion presumes the inability to form the world around your perception of what is reality.

For instance, I too have supported the Snoopies for many years, I find Shultz to have written some insightful comments.
Note he had a Woodstock(life) bird behind his pilot.

And when Lucy lines up that football,
I get the 'Extra Point Good' signal.

Alive and Kicking - Simple Minds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljIQo1OHkTI

Bob Eastwood



Although in truth,
I think that song is about reconnecting to Oz when in times of trouble,
Ents on the March,
and the legendary captain of the Red October doing a Crazy Ivan.
Hence the playing of older songs from years ago. (Torpedoes in the water )

Currently you can see the Red October surfacing off the coast of New York
with lantern held high
and launching nukes

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 34
RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 6/23/2013 10:31:23 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4534
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:


I find Shultz to have written some insightful comments.


Aye. Speaking of philosophy.




The best you can is good enough.

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to DHRedge)
Post #: 35
RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 6/23/2013 11:33:04 PM   
DHRedge

 

Posts: 148
Joined: 1/18/2010
Status: offline
Ahh, yes, good posting.

A Farscape Reference,
and Big Fish comment, an old name I know, from a friend of years ago

Good song, also like the way the snoopy art melds seamlessly into the Heart Posts.

Although beware that optimism can be a trap, hope is a projection of future events, if those thoughts make you happy today, but are not also supported by actions, you may live in the life of always expecting things to happen without doing, 'the best you can'.

Who Wants To Live Forever - Queen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jtpf8N5IDE

Bob Eastwood

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 36
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