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Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing

 
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Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/22/2012 1:10:32 AM   
VonFrag

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 12/21/2011
Status: offline 		My apologies if this has been asked before but here goes.

Allies, august 42, latest patch.

I set my Dauntlesses at 20,000 feet for dive bombing. They never hit squat. I dropped it to 15,000 feet and it seems to be better. What altitude seems to work for you? Or what is the best altitude to set them at?

Thanks

Frag out
Post #: 1
RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/22/2012 1:19:09 AM   
Justus2


Posts: 251
Joined: 11/12/2011
Status: offline 		Dive Bombing only works between 10,000-15,000 feet

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RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/22/2012 1:27:37 AM   
StK


Posts: 76
Joined: 8/18/2012
From: Upper Austria
Status: offline 		This question in particular is very well answered in the video tutorials of n01487477, but I'm not allowed to post links yet.. could someone post it?

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RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/22/2012 1:32:13 AM   
Justus2


Posts: 251
Joined: 11/12/2011
Status: offline 		Tutorial Links

Bombing tutorial

Here's the link to a video that also shows a chart.

< Message edited by Justus2 -- 8/22/2012 1:33:48 AM >

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RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/22/2012 1:38:59 AM   
StK


Posts: 76
Joined: 8/18/2012
From: Upper Austria
Status: offline 		thank you

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RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/22/2012 2:10:14 AM   
dr.hal


Posts: 1362
Joined: 6/3/2006
Status: offline 		Isn't this in the manual?

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RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/22/2012 2:23:41 AM   
VonFrag

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 12/21/2011
Status: offline 		Who has time for the manual.............. Tanks for the info. I was thinking Uncommon Valor and dive bombing from 20k, in which I read a nice interview somewhere with Dick Best and he mentioned they started at 20,000 feet many times. But no big deal.

Frag out.

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Post #: 7
RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/22/2012 3:14:13 AM   
dr.hal


Posts: 1362
Joined: 6/3/2006
Status: offline 		Frag, the manual is sadly out of date however it does provide foundational information that gives you the basics that allow you to avoid unknowingly making mistakes and allows the player to short cut the learning process of the game. It may not be a great read, but it is an important one (at least in my book, pun intended!). Hal

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Post #: 8
RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/22/2012 3:26:53 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 6050
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: online 		Fighters @ 15k
DB @ 12k
TB @ 9k

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RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/22/2012 4:11:26 AM   
dr.hal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Fighters @ 15k
DB @ 12k
TB @ 9k

How do you come to these conclusions ny59giants? For maximum impact one should put the TBs and DBs at the same altitude along with escorting fighters (all at 13K). Thus the DBs actually divebomb, the torpedo bombers will drop down to 200 ft and drop their torpedoes while the escort flies 2K feet above the formation for protection. This also allows for the maximum chance of a coordinated strike. Hal

< Message edited by dr.hal -- 8/22/2012 4:14:44 AM >

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RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/22/2012 5:01:42 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Fighters @ 15k
DB @ 12k
TB @ 9k

How do you come to these conclusions ny59giants? For maximum impact one should put the TBs and DBs at the same altitude along with escorting fighters (all at 13K). Thus the DBs actually divebomb, the torpedo bombers will drop down to 200 ft and drop their torpedoes while the escort flies 2K feet above the formation for protection. This also allows for the maximum chance of a coordinated strike. Hal

+1

Consistent with LoBaron air Manual.

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RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/22/2012 7:47:55 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VonFrag

Who has time for the manual..............


Me.

Alfred

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RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/22/2012 10:36:36 AM   
mullk

 

Posts: 443
Joined: 4/3/2003
From: Ohio
Status: offline 		I always set all my DB, TB and fighter aircraft to 15k. Strikes are less likely to arrive piece meal and dive bombers will dive bomb. I also believe that AAA is a bit lower at 15k vs 12k but i may very well be wrong on that count. For fighters set purely to cap I start at 15k and adjust to raid altitudes.

< Message edited by mullk -- 8/22/2012 10:38:04 AM >

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RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/22/2012 1:21:09 PM   
dr.hal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: VonFrag

Who has time for the manual..............


Me.

Alfred

Nicely put Alfred!

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Post #: 14
RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/22/2012 4:10:57 PM   
Balou


Posts: 415
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline 		@ ny59giants
In one of my recent posts I was told to set DB and TB to same altitude, since it increases the likelyhood of coordinated strikes, say 11k.

< Message edited by Balou -- 8/22/2012 4:13:17 PM >

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Post #: 15
RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/22/2012 4:28:32 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3833
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Just for theory, the optimal alt setting for the IJN can be viewed as 13k - as Pax Mondo already pointed out. The reason is that above 15k
the Zero mvr rating drops a notch, so setting your strike to 13k sets the escorts at 15k, the highest optimal alt setting for the escorting Zero.

The Allies are not restricted to this as the Wildcats mvr rating only drops after 20k, so with regards to getting as much of a strike through as possible,
one could argue that the optimum alt setting is 15k.

But there is another factor weighting just as much: Strike accuracy. The lower in the 10-15 band your strike goes in, the better the accuracy of your DBs.

I don´t think that there is a conclusive test up to now where the optimal tradeoff altitude for strikes lies when weighting in accuracy vs. getting as many planes
as possible over target undamaged. I also believe this will never be the case, as selecting the alt highly depends on type and number of opposition.
13k still looks a good alt to me, independent of the side you play, but I think the trick is to vary and remain unpredictable, thats what I am trying to do.

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RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/23/2012 7:36:04 AM   
castor troy


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From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Fighters @ 15k
DB @ 12k
TB @ 9k

How do you come to these conclusions ny59giants? For maximum impact one should put the TBs and DBs at the same altitude along with escorting fighters (all at 13K). Thus the DBs actually divebomb, the torpedo bombers will drop down to 200 ft and drop their torpedoes while the escort flies 2K feet above the formation for protection. This also allows for the maximum chance of a coordinated strike. Hal



I got my carrier based ac at three different altitudes and all the time launch strikes of 300+ aircraft in early/mid 42 while having ALL carriers in the same TF. Works well, don't give too much on "I have to look at CV stacking per TF and alts for aircraft".

< Message edited by castor troy -- 8/23/2012 7:38:13 AM >

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Post #: 17
RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/23/2012 9:34:01 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3833
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Fighters @ 15k
DB @ 12k
TB @ 9k

How do you come to these conclusions ny59giants? For maximum impact one should put the TBs and DBs at the same altitude along with escorting fighters (all at 13K). Thus the DBs actually divebomb, the torpedo bombers will drop down to 200 ft and drop their torpedoes while the escort flies 2K feet above the formation for protection. This also allows for the maximum chance of a coordinated strike. Hal



I got my carrier based ac at three different altitudes and all the time launch strikes of 300+ aircraft in early/mid 42 while having ALL carriers in the same TF. Works well, don't give too much on "I have to look at CV stacking per TF and alts for aircraft".


You will notice though that independent of different alt settings you only got one incoming altitude (also visible in the combat report) if a strike goes in coordinated. Which means that theres only two possible
outcomes: either your different alt settings are useless because the secondary groups reset to the same alt as the lead group when the strike coordinates, or the strikes do not coordinate.

But I agree with you that the chances to coordinate very high for CV airgroups independent of the alt setting.

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Post #: 18
RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/23/2012 2:45:04 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 1362
Joined: 6/3/2006
Status: offline 		But you maximize your chances of a coordinated strike if you set your altitudes for the various forms of attack (and escort) at the same altitude. Yet as in all aspects of the game, this is an individual decision that has many choices; all up to the player.

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Post #: 19
RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/23/2012 2:50:06 PM   
Puhis


Posts: 1627
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


You will notice though that independent of different alt settings you only got one incoming altitude (also visible in the combat report) if a strike goes in coordinated.


This is simply wrong.

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Post #: 20
RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/23/2012 2:54:00 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3833
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		It is an assumption admittedly. But please tell me why you say it is wrong. Have you ever seen a level boming attack described by a single combat report where
bombing altitudes were different, and have you ever seen a combat report with more than a single incoming altitude?

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S**t happens in war.

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Post #: 21
RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/23/2012 3:14:38 PM   
Puhis


Posts: 1627
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

It is an assumption admittedly. But please tell me why you say it is wrong. Have you ever seen a level boming attack described by a single combat report where
bombing altitudes were different, and have you ever seen a combat report with more than a single incoming altitude?


Combat report is always showing only one altitude. But I've seen coordinated strikes bombing different altitudes.

I really don't know who air combat model works, but I think setting different altitude for bombers can distract CAP so that some of the fighters have to fly high and some low.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Finschhafen , at 100,126

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 64 NM, estimated altitude 29,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Allied aircraft
Mitchell II x 11
B-24D1 Liberator x 6

No Allied losses


Aircraft Attacking:
11 x Mitchell II bombing from 24000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 3 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 25000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 19th Tank Regiment, at 63,41 (Warazup)

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 18
B-25C Mitchell x 12


No Allied losses


Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
10 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 15000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
9 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 15000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

< Message edited by Puhis -- 8/23/2012 3:15:35 PM >

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Post #: 22
RE: Optimal Altitude For Dive Bombing - 8/23/2012 4:04:10 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3833
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Good observation, thanks!

You never stop learning...

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S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

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Post #: 23
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