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Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark)

 
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Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 7:22:42 PM   
Speedy

 

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Status: offline 		Hi all,

After playing the Axis for a few months I figured I'd go back to playing the good ol Soviets!

We're playing the Alt VC GC with Random Weather.

Here's AGN theatre pre SU moves:




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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 7:24:10 PM   
Speedy

 

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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 7:25:31 PM   
Speedy

 

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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 7:29:09 PM   
Speedy

 

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Usual fare up north. Not enoguh to screen so I retreat to the Velikaya Line with a few NKVD's out to the front (It's a test of their 'Political mettle')

All of the pockets were un-breakable.




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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 7:31:51 PM   
Speedy

 

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The Pockets were also un-breakable.

I don't like all of this Sir Robin stuff so I'm forming the first defensve barrier along the Dnepr with units out front in Checkerboard to delay as much as possible.




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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 7:35:34 PM   
Speedy

 

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This pocket was breakable and didn't require any attacks on the Axis to do so.

I also launched a couple of successful attacks on Sec Rgt's in the north of the Pocket. My units will die so may as well take some Nazi's with them.

Checkerboard out front and defences being formed on the Dnepr.

This is also a test to see how Mogmark plays and to get a gauge for how aggressive he is etc.




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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 7:36:57 PM   
Speedy

 

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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 7:40:43 PM   
Speedy

 

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Some other tidbits on my strategy. I plan to evacuate as much as I can (except the useless Facs - BA-10's etc). I'll even move the HI IF and WHEN I have spare rail capacity after troop movements.

VVS - I don't like all this hiding business. Obv there''ll be no spending of AP's on upgrading planes until well later on but they'll be in the field as a fighter and interdiction force.




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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 7:42:22 PM   
Speedy

 

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Status: offline 		Start of Turn 2 Pre SU moves.

AGN - Pockets mainly eradicated and the Velikaya is easily crossed over 20 miles:




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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 7:44:13 PM   
Speedy

 

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Status: offline 		AGC - good moves by Mogmark as he herds many units into a near pocket. A 10 mile life line corridor exists:




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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 7:46:40 PM   
Speedy

 

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Status: offline 		AGS - The Axis comfortably reach the Rumanian Border but fail to re-close the pocket due to stubborn resistance by 228th Rifle Division fighting off 4 Panzer attacks!




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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 7:50:45 PM   
Speedy

 

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Status: offline 		T2 AGN post SU moves:

It seems a further PzC has been added from AGC. Not good for LG. We'll fight for it though!

The Velikaya is abandoned and my forces wheel to the NE to delay the Axis whilst fresh units are railed upto the Luga from Western Front area.




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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 7:53:08 PM   
Speedy

 

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Status: offline 		AGC - Some of the units escaped from the near pocket (temporarily at least) and LVII PzC was cut-off to the north. A host of forces are rushed forwards to the Dnepr and some begin digging further back still:




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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 7:56:06 PM   
Speedy

 

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Status: offline 		AGS - 11th Panzer Div. is cut off and a few attacks with the near pocket are successful against Axis units. 1 attack against 13th Panzer Div. on the east of the Pokcet was disasterous though costing 16 tanks and 2300 men.




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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 7:57:17 PM   
Speedy

 

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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 7:58:19 PM   
Speedy

 

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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 7:59:16 PM   
Speedy

 

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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/19/2012 8:18:03 PM   
Speedy

 

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Status: offline 		I also meant to say that any unit west of the Dnepr is not on refit. Conversely any unit in the defensive line along the Dnepr/Luga is. This method will continue so that forces at the front will be on ready/reserve status whilst those in the rear refit. This will continue until at least the Winter and/or vital areas are reached and there's few defensive lines to the rear!

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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/20/2012 8:47:55 AM   
Speedy

 

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Mud in South Soviet Zone.

Pskov:

Some local Axis attacks expand the bridgehead over the Velikaya. I'm assuming Mogmark is waiting for Infantry to close up and for a little more fuel. I expect a bigger push next week. Will he go for LG direct or the right hook?




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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/20/2012 8:52:44 AM   
Speedy

 

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The small pocket started the previous week was reformed as Mogmark is logically waiting for Infantry to close up and more fuel to reach the front.




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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/20/2012 8:55:44 AM   
Speedy

 

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Lvov pocket is totally sealed this time. Rovno is stormed and a further Tk and Mtr Division are cut off south of Rovno.




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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/20/2012 4:07:59 PM   
HITMAN202


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Status: online 		Mud in July ??? Forget historicity, this is pure fantasy. And besides, a heavy week of ran is not a Rasputitsa. Its a whole month of rain that produces the literal supply/movement quagmire. Not a mire week. But in July ?? If I seem a bit sensitive (we all can wear our feelings on our sleeves) I resigned a server game (I did lose some respect for myself) with Bomazz after the following...

Like Mogmark I got rain on turn three in the AGS sector, but the real hurt was that I transferred 3 Pz div to Rumania on turn 2 and not able to execute what can be a huge AGS strategy. No big deal, that's part of the game with non-Random weather,

but, shiver-me-timbers I also got turn 3 rain all south of the Dugava. Holy Crap !!!! But again that's the role of the die (and it is just a game.) Now Bomazz conducted a forward Pskov defense (I can imagine Flavius licking his lips knowing he has an additional turn to establish what can be a formidable defense) .

I fortunately had sent 9 Pz units north, was able to breech the river line south of Pskov, but got my Pz a little abused with no infantry support. A turn behind because of the rain, I hit Pskov's extensive defense network (25-30 units ??) with the infantry on turn 5, hard on turn 6 with a Pz buildup and isolated Pskoz and a bunch on units on turn 7.

As is often the case after the penetration of a major defense line, I was going to clean up shop (and started a build up chain), but, Holy Cow of Italy, got mud on turn 8 !!! No lie !!! But that's just the beginning !!!

With all the power at Pskov, I couldn't fully clean up the pocket at Pskov, had a worthless BUP, had the other Pz Corp planned for BUP out of supply and was unable to close a pocket of 10 or so units in between AGN and AGC . Also mud in AGC the same turn!!!

I had a nice pocket in AGC I couldn't reduce, one Pz Corp out of supply and another I couldn't build up. Could it get worse. Yep !!

Mud in the AGS to boot. I had breached a well defended Dnper on turn 7 had a chain ready and ... I won't continue to voice my pain. Now Bomazz is a good player and I wasn't playing the game just to win, but putting two hours a move into a game should elicit some pleasure. I was in pain. Seriously, weather die rolls shouldn't have such an impact.

You may say I was just unlucky. Duhhh... But wasn't wanting to feel like I had lost all at Las Vegas !!!

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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/20/2012 5:06:08 PM   
Seminole


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quote:

I was in pain. Seriously, weather die rolls shouldn't have such an impact.


That's funny, Eisenhower was thinking the same thing in May of '44...

The point of random weather isn't to have the same weather as historical, it is to increase variety and reduce 'cookie cutter' or 'clockwork' campaigns to increase replay enjoyability.

In my current game as the Soviets I was stuck with a clear turn 18 in the South, which allowed the Germans to bag some extra divisions (including cavalry and mtn!), so it definitely can cut both ways.

Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.

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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/20/2012 5:14:35 PM   
Flaviusx


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Status: online 		I'm doubting that Speedy is very happy he got mud in South Soviet on turn 3. Bad timing.

Conversely, the Axis player can now advance in that zone without any fears of mud until turn 18. That means clear sailing to Rostov.

Early mud in North Soviet is even worse from the Soviet standpoint. The ideal time for that to hit is around turns 12-14...just in time to stall the big push to Moscow.

The best time for mud to hit in South and Central Soviet is between turns 5-7, imo. This buys you time along the Dnepr and delays the crossing.

In short...there's mud and there's mud, and not all mud turns are equally effective or damaging, depending on your perspective.

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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/20/2012 5:22:00 PM   
HITMAN202


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Status: online 		Your're probably a better soldier than I. But having a few more divisions isolated on turn 18 near Moscow is not similar to mud on turn 3 (even AGC was hurt some),"and" a catastropic turn 8 where pockets are not reduced, pockets not closed, PzBUP's that are wasted and other Pz out of supply that can't be BUP, "and" other possible weather disasters. There has not been mud at Leningrad, the Donbass, and , oh I forgot, at Moscow. Yet.

I am having more pleasure than pain relating all this (I'm hoping the big guns ..Pelton,Flavius et al..chime in..Flavius is such a huge asset to this board.. I'm being serious, for once) but I will not play Random Weather again. I think Flavius will agree that the impact of random weather is way too great.

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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/20/2012 5:26:40 PM   
Schmart

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202
Seriously, weather die rolls shouldn't have such an impact.


You'll be thinking twice about this as Axis when you get random snow turns in Dec 41/Jan 42...

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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/20/2012 5:35:09 PM   
hfarrish

 

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Even though I'm a supporter of random weather, the rules don't currently allow for snow or mud during 12/41 and 1/42 - only blizzard.

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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/20/2012 5:44:08 PM   
Flaviusx


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Status: online 		In a vacuum, yes, the impact of weather is too great. But logistics in this game are ridiculous and op tempo is much too fast.

So it's one absurdity balancing another. Until logistics get a do over, this is the best we can do. I will not play an expert Axis player without the random weather now because they know how to make the logistics system do whatever they want it to do and achieve advances at miraculous rates. We will leave aside the further absurdity of the Lvov opener.



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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/20/2012 5:50:47 PM   
HITMAN202


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Status: online 		Flavius. Clear sailing after turn three ??? Not in my game. Mud east of Rumania, turn 3, mud east of the Dnper, turn 8. Yea, there was good weather near D and Z town, but that's not where the fight was at. Both AGN and AGS had two weather turns (3 and 8) that also directly affected BUP's for the next (9th) turn. AGC was hurt on turn 8, and possibly later near Moscow.

How good would your advance Pskov defense be with an additional turn of preparation ???? Against Bomazz after turn 8, isolated Pskov was not reduced, 5 Pz divisions were out of supply and 4 Pz built-up with no where to go, there was a strong Soviet line just north of Pskov and no converted hexes north of it. Maybe Leningrad would hold.

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RE: Speedy vs Mogmark (no Mogmark) - 8/20/2012 5:54:07 PM   
Flaviusx


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Status: online 		Each individual zone can only get one turn of mud during summer. If you're seeing the same zone get hit more than once in this time period, then that's a bug.

There are 3 main weather zones in play here, North, Central, and South Soviet (there are others, but mostly they don't figure into 1941) and therefore 3 discrete mud events to watch out for. It is possible for more than one zone to get hit in a given turn. But once any of these zones have taken a bite out of the apple, they are done until turn 18. It is also possible for these zones never to experience mud at all.



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