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Babes Update Question (Closed)

 
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Babes Update Question (Closed) - 8/19/2012 5:44:58 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline 		I wonder something. There is a extension to the extended map that we use for our Guadalcanal and operation SF scenarios and everything else too by default. It breaks out the Shortlands from Bougainville proper and moves the Shortlands base to a new place, and renames the old Shortlands to Buin. Shortlands is mostly port 2(3) and little air 1(0) while Buin is mostly air 1(3) and little port 1(0) and they belong to different commands.

I wonder if people would want the extended-extended map included in the next update? It looks like this..





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by US87891 -- 8/20/2012 9:12:47 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/19/2012 6:36:32 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1869
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Covina,CA,USA
Status: offline 		I vote yes.

Buck

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 2
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/19/2012 8:14:24 PM   
Carny

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 5/5/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Seconded.

(in reply to Buck Beach)
Post #: 3
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/19/2012 8:38:04 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1017
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline 		Is the Pope Catholic?

Is a four pound Robin fat?

Would I take whatever the Babes Team is willing to share?

I am with Buck and Carny - Yes! (Please)

The map sample is awesome!

Babes Forever...

Mac

< Message edited by Mac Linehan -- 8/19/2012 9:00:40 PM >

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LAV-25 2147

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 4
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/19/2012 9:06:00 PM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 12397
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Sure - to clarify, if I understand correctly that would be an updated extended map that pertains to the full campaign as well, yes?

(in reply to Mac Linehan)
Post #: 5
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/20/2012 12:25:57 AM   
mikkey


Posts: 538
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		+1 for extended-extended Guadalcanal map

_____________________________


(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 6
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/20/2012 12:52:58 AM   
MateDow


Posts: 175
Joined: 8/6/2002
Status: offline 		I am gathering that, because the question is being asked, there are disadvantages to this modification. What are those?

Personally, I like the added detail and think that it is good.

(in reply to mikkey)
Post #: 7
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/20/2012 1:28:00 AM   
Kitakami

 

Posts: 450
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: On the bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline 		I would definitely love it. It is details like those that make DaBabes what it is :)

_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!


(in reply to MateDow)
Post #: 8
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/20/2012 2:12:15 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9735
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Knoxville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MateDow

I am gathering that, because the question is being asked, there are disadvantages to this modification. What are those?

Personally, I like the added detail and think that it is good.



Keep in mind this would only apply to newly started games...it cannot be applied to a game in progress.

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to MateDow)
Post #: 9
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/20/2012 1:02:29 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 1898
Joined: 11/17/2006
From: The Old Line State
Status: offline 		Definately a yes here!!

_____________________________


"I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies" ~ Thomas Jefferson

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 10
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/20/2012 1:14:02 PM   
Puhis


Posts: 1627
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline 		It looks good, but I have a small doubt. Shortlands is now one hex closer to Guadalcanal. Does it affect air war?

(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 11
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/20/2012 2:02:20 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 4813
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

It looks good, but I have a small doubt. Shortlands is now one hex closer to Guadalcanal. Does it affect air war?


It looks like it would bring Lunga within 7 hexes instead of 8 hexes of the Shortlands. Depending if the Japanese player were to develop an airfield on Shortlands capable of operating fighters, then Lunga just barely comes within the normal radius of the A6M2 (7 hexes). It maybe won't have too much effect on Allied fighters because the normal radius of most versions of the Wildcat and P-40 still fall short of 7 hexes.

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 12
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/20/2012 4:06:42 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: MateDow

I am gathering that, because the question is being asked, there are disadvantages to this modification. What are those?

Personally, I like the added detail and think that it is good.



Keep in mind this would only apply to newly started games...it cannot be applied to a game in progress.

Yes. What treespider said. Even when started new, the disadvantage is full AI like BabesLite won’t recognize the new Shortlands base. The new Buin is in the old Shortlands slot, and AI will recognize Buin. All the big ticket troop and plane items were at Buin in any case. It is a minor issue but still an issue.

It won't show up on Tracker either.

< Message edited by US87891 -- 8/20/2012 4:19:53 PM >

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 13
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/20/2012 4:17:36 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

It looks good, but I have a small doubt. Shortlands is now one hex closer to Guadalcanal. Does it affect air war?

I hope not. If I read the map right, Henderson International is at Lat -9.430S : Long 160.0519.
HF to Ballale (Lat -6.986S : Lon 155.8984) is 531.8 km (287.2 nm)
HF to Poporang (Lat -7.097S : Lon 155.8757) is 527.7 km (284.9 nm)
HF to Buin (Kahili/Kara) (Lat -6.747S : Lon 155.6883) is 564.4 km (304.8 nm)
On the old map Buin/Shortlands to Lunga is 8 hexes (320 nm)
New map Buin to Lunga is still 8 hexes but new Shortlands to Lunga is 7 hexes (280 nm)

Fiddled with the new Shortlands base to make it lousy for AFs. All that was there was the seaplane base at Shortland Harbor on Poporang Is and eventually a 1500’ strip on Ballale Is. Buin base had the AFs (Kahili and Kara). Shortlands starts at AF 1(0) Buin starts at AF 1(3) and both are 80% damaged. It's like somebody cut the grass, but they need work to get them going.
The main AFs at Lunga and Buin are the same distance apart. The only benefit is to Petes and Mavis's

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 14
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/20/2012 4:18:50 PM   
Herrbear


Posts: 843
Joined: 7/26/2004
From: Glendora, CA
Status: offline 		Yes

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 15
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/20/2012 4:30:52 PM   
Puhis


Posts: 1627
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891


quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

It looks good, but I have a small doubt. Shortlands is now one hex closer to Guadalcanal. Does it affect air war?

I hope not. If I read the map right, Henderson International is at Lat -9.430S : Long 160.0519.
HF to Ballale (Lat -6.986S : Lon 155.8984) is 531.8 km (287.2 nm)
HF to Poporang (Lat -7.097S : Lon 155.8757) is 527.7 km (284.9 nm)
HF to Buin (Kahili/Kara) (Lat -6.747S : Lon 155.6883) is 564.4 km (304.8 nm)
On the old map Buin/Shortlands to Lunga is 8 hexes (320 nm)
New map Buin to Lunga is still 8 hexes but new Shortlands to Lunga is 7 hexes (280 nm)

Fiddled with the new Shortlands base to make it lousy for AFs. All that was there was the seaplane base at Shortland Harbor on Poporang Is and eventually a 1500’ strip on Ballale Is. Buin base had the AFs (Kahili and Kara). Shortlands starts at AF 1(0) Buin starts at AF 1(3) and both are 80% damaged. It's like somebody cut the grass, but they need work to get them going.
The main AFs at Lunga and Buin are the same distance apart. The only benefit is to Petes and Mavis's



7 hexes is normal range of Dauntless DBs. Did Dauntless had the range to bomb Shortlands' naval base?

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 16
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/20/2012 4:53:57 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis


quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891


quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

It looks good, but I have a small doubt. Shortlands is now one hex closer to Guadalcanal. Does it affect air war?

I hope not. If I read the map right, Henderson International is at Lat -9.430S : Long 160.0519.
HF to Ballale (Lat -6.986S : Lon 155.8984) is 531.8 km (287.2 nm)
HF to Poporang (Lat -7.097S : Lon 155.8757) is 527.7 km (284.9 nm)
HF to Buin (Kahili/Kara) (Lat -6.747S : Lon 155.6883) is 564.4 km (304.8 nm)
On the old map Buin/Shortlands to Lunga is 8 hexes (320 nm)
New map Buin to Lunga is still 8 hexes but new Shortlands to Lunga is 7 hexes (280 nm)

Fiddled with the new Shortlands base to make it lousy for AFs. All that was there was the seaplane base at Shortland Harbor on Poporang Is and eventually a 1500’ strip on Ballale Is. Buin base had the AFs (Kahili and Kara). Shortlands starts at AF 1(0) Buin starts at AF 1(3) and both are 80% damaged. It's like somebody cut the grass, but they need work to get them going.
The main AFs at Lunga and Buin are the same distance apart. The only benefit is to Petes and Mavis's



7 hexes is normal range of Dauntless DBs. Did Dauntless had the range to bomb Shortlands' naval base?

I honestly don't know but Henderson International is on the site of Henderson Field and the Lat/Lon of Poporang is smack in the middle of Shortland Harbor. So if a Dauntless can go 280 nm, it seems logical it can go 285 nm, yes? There wasn't much of a naval bse there but it did have flak. Just don't know.

Isn't normal range of SBD 9?

< Message edited by US87891 -- 8/20/2012 5:13:25 PM >

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 17
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/20/2012 4:54:39 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2024
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		yes for me

_____________________________


(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 18
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/20/2012 5:39:58 PM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 12397
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

It won't show up on Tracker either.

It should show up on Tracker just fine. Simple to add the base to a regions-definition file for Tacker too.

Tracker just reads in what is in the save file. Not sure if it reads the scenario file the first time but I think it does not. The point is that Tracker does not contain its own list of bases, if you add them it will pick them up.

All the additional bases that have already been added in Babes came up on Tracker just fine without any Tracker updates (getting the regions updated is optional so won't stop Tracker from working).

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 19
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/20/2012 6:48:11 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

It won't show up on Tracker either.

It should show up on Tracker just fine. Simple to add the base to a regions-definition file for Tacker too.

Tracker just reads in what is in the save file. Not sure if it reads the scenario file the first time but I think it does not. The point is that Tracker does not contain its own list of bases, if you add them it will pick them up.

All the additional bases that have already been added in Babes came up on Tracker just fine without any Tracker updates (getting the regions updated is optional so won't stop Tracker from working).

Thank you. That's good to know. We don't use Tracker much so don't know a lot about it. Sorry Tracker people

If Mr Catbus is satisfied, then the new Solomons go in as new panel 024. A good time to do it since JWE did a extensive update on size and terrain for all the islands in the Pacific and it makes sense to lump everything together.

I recall him spending time with a Navy oceanographer last year. Here's John's changelog from October. It is a .doc file but remaned .txt to post. Take it but rename to .doc before you open it. Opening as .txt will not work.

Regards, Matt



Attachment (1)

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 20
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/20/2012 6:52:45 PM   
Puhis


Posts: 1627
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

It won't show up on Tracker either.

It should show up on Tracker just fine. Simple to add the base to a regions-definition file for Tacker too.

Tracker just reads in what is in the save file. Not sure if it reads the scenario file the first time but I think it does not. The point is that Tracker does not contain its own list of bases, if you add them it will pick them up.

All the additional bases that have already been added in Babes came up on Tracker just fine without any Tracker updates (getting the regions updated is optional so won't stop Tracker from working).

Thank you. That's good to know. We don't use Tracker much so don't know a lot about it. Sorry Tracker people

If Mr Catbus is satisfied, then the new Solomons go in as new panel 024. A good time to do it since JWE did a extensive update on size and terrain for all the islands in the Pacific and it makes sense to lump everything together.



Well, I do think that separating Buin and Shortlands make lot of sense. I just had some minor concerns, but it's not a big deal...

Next game I'm going to use extended map anyway.


(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 21
RE: Babes Update Question - 8/20/2012 8:56:34 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 4813
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis


quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891


quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

It looks good, but I have a small doubt. Shortlands is now one hex closer to Guadalcanal. Does it affect air war?

I hope not. If I read the map right, Henderson International is at Lat -9.430S : Long 160.0519.
HF to Ballale (Lat -6.986S : Lon 155.8984) is 531.8 km (287.2 nm)
HF to Poporang (Lat -7.097S : Lon 155.8757) is 527.7 km (284.9 nm)
HF to Buin (Kahili/Kara) (Lat -6.747S : Lon 155.6883) is 564.4 km (304.8 nm)
On the old map Buin/Shortlands to Lunga is 8 hexes (320 nm)
New map Buin to Lunga is still 8 hexes but new Shortlands to Lunga is 7 hexes (280 nm)

Fiddled with the new Shortlands base to make it lousy for AFs. All that was there was the seaplane base at Shortland Harbor on Poporang Is and eventually a 1500’ strip on Ballale Is. Buin base had the AFs (Kahili and Kara). Shortlands starts at AF 1(0) Buin starts at AF 1(3) and both are 80% damaged. It's like somebody cut the grass, but they need work to get them going.
The main AFs at Lunga and Buin are the same distance apart. The only benefit is to Petes and Mavis's



7 hexes is normal range of Dauntless DBs. Did Dauntless had the range to bomb Shortlands' naval base?

I honestly don't know but Henderson International is on the site of Henderson Field and the Lat/Lon of Poporang is smack in the middle of Shortland Harbor. So if a Dauntless can go 280 nm, it seems logical it can go 285 nm, yes? There wasn't much of a naval bse there but it did have flak. Just don't know.

Isn't normal range of SBD 9?


SBD-3 and SBD-1 are 7 hex, SBD-5 is 9 hex and SBD-6 is 10 hex. SBD-3 would probably be used for the majority of the Guadalcanal scenario. So it would move shortlands within normal range of the SBD-3 from Lunga. I skimmed through some of the action reports here in an effort to find an instance of SBDs attacking the Shortland Islands from Lunga but didn't come up with anything. Saw a few references to B-17 or B-24 raids on shipping in the Shortland area escorted by P-38s and even P-40s (presumably using drop tanks I would think). I'm guessing the raids originated from Lunga, though it didn't say in some of the cases I observed.

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 8/20/2012 9:07:54 PM >

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 22
RE: Babes Update Question (Closed) - 8/20/2012 9:11:41 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis


quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

It won't show up on Tracker either.

It should show up on Tracker just fine. Simple to add the base to a regions-definition file for Tacker too.

Tracker just reads in what is in the save file. Not sure if it reads the scenario file the first time but I think it does not. The point is that Tracker does not contain its own list of bases, if you add them it will pick them up.

All the additional bases that have already been added in Babes came up on Tracker just fine without any Tracker updates (getting the regions updated is optional so won't stop Tracker from working).

Thank you. That's good to know. We don't use Tracker much so don't know a lot about it. Sorry Tracker people

If Mr Catbus is satisfied, then the new Solomons go in as new panel 024. A good time to do it since JWE did a extensive update on size and terrain for all the islands in the Pacific and it makes sense to lump everything together.



Well, I do think that separating Buin and Shortlands make lot of sense. I just had some minor concerns, but it's not a big deal...

Next game I'm going to use extended map anyway.


Mr Catbus seems to think it is okay, and there are no other outstanding issues, so in it goes.

Thank you all for the useful feedback. Update is set. Thread is now closed.

Matt

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 23
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