Matrix Games Forums

To End All Wars: Video, AAR and Interview!Ageod's To End All Wars: Video, AAR and Interview!To End All Wars: Artillery Battle Academy 2: Eastern Front - End of Early Access Space Program Manager unveils its multiplayer modes Another update for Commander: The Great War!Distant Worlds: Universe gets a new updateDeal of the Week: Eagle Day to Bombing the Reich Advanced Tactics Gold is coming to SteamMatrix Games now speaks German!
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 9/25/2012 8:43:04 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1344
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline
Yes, but in 1941 you will break right through them....


(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 121
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 9/26/2012 9:26:15 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 1972
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline
CVs of 50 or 75? Do you mean defensive CVs?

(in reply to Marquo)
Post #: 122
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 9/26/2012 11:09:27 AM   
janh

 

Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline
Sounds a bit like a case of FoW, though with picking the few really somewhat better infantry divisions and getting some level 2-3 forts up, it could be possible. In that case you need time, i.e. Axis arrive later than the typical turn 3 at the land bridge.

Even if Axis gets there by turn 3 -- and unlike in history-- is at large in shape to push on, I think this push must be contested. If Axis send 1 Panzergruppe from PG 2 and 3 south and north, it can really win some time to fortify the closer terrain around Moscow. At worst, Axis would have to wait a turn or two until the infantry comes up to breach the lines, but winning two turns is even better than two mud turns. Axis may even have to flex around the landbrigde thru the hills and woods to the north (Rshev), or cross a Djenpr and several minor rivers to the south of Smolensk. If nothing, this costs Axis more MPs, which means winning terrain and time. SHC is definitely getting a pounding on the landbridge, though, and its is surely poor defensive terrain. But at least the terrain means somewhat easier establishment of your flank security. I don't think surrendering it and holding closer to Rhev-Vjasma-Brijansk right away is often so much better.

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 123
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 9/26/2012 11:16:33 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22577
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Wow.

Red Army is just going to blow up now. You might even run into supply issues in 42, try not to lose any more HI.

I think sitting tight is the right way to go. Frankly, you don't even need to run a full bore blizzard counteroffensive. That's just going to get you out of your forts and terrain features and strain your logistics. Keep the rifle divisions sitting tight and send out your cavalry and tank brigades forward to maintain contact with him and encourage him to keep retreating. When March hits, your mobile units can fade back to the interior and make him waste time taking back this buffer zone. You won't get many guards this way, but whatever. He's not going to get anywhere either, and then you just wait until 43 to roll out Red Army 2.0.

Pelton just doesn't get the attrition or grinding part of the game at all. Axis can easily maintain 5:1+ loss ratios until blizzard in 41 if they just keep pounding away. Deliberate assaults with the landsers are no joke. The worst thing you can do is what he's doing and give the Soviets a free ride. He's not pressuring your replacement situation at all. Your armament pools may never bottom out, either.


Don't count Pelton out of this game yet!

I don't know his OOB strength but I suspect that it is high (in both men and tanks)... the 1942 might be very interesting here regardless of Red Army size and numbers...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 124
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 9/26/2012 11:17:07 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 2319
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
Quick update. I have just finished the second mud turn (T19) and Pelton is in a fully fledged flight back to Poland it would seem, who knows where he will stop. I think its nuts, but who knows, it is certainly unexpected. I thought he would run in the blizzard, but he has been running from turn 16/17. Maps at the end of the mud.

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to janh)
Post #: 125
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 9/26/2012 2:37:05 PM   
Ketza


Posts: 2212
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: janh

Sounds a bit like a case of FoW, though with picking the few really somewhat better infantry divisions and getting some level 2-3 forts up, it could be possible. In that case you need time, i.e. Axis arrive later than the typical turn 3 at the land bridge.

Even if Axis gets there by turn 3 -- and unlike in history-- is at large in shape to push on, I think this push must be contested. If Axis send 1 Panzergruppe from PG 2 and 3 south and north, it can really win some time to fortify the closer terrain around Moscow. At worst, Axis would have to wait a turn or two until the infantry comes up to breach the lines, but winning two turns is even better than two mud turns. Axis may even have to flex around the landbrigde thru the hills and woods to the north (Rshev), or cross a Djenpr and several minor rivers to the south of Smolensk. If nothing, this costs Axis more MPs, which means winning terrain and time. SHC is definitely getting a pounding on the landbridge, though, and its is surely poor defensive terrain. But at least the terrain means somewhat easier establishment of your flank security. I don't think surrendering it and holding closer to Rhev-Vjasma-Brijansk right away is often so much better.


I am on the road right now so I dont have the screenshots but it wasnt fog of war. There was one very large assault where I hit him with 6 fully rested infantry divisions of 9th army and got a hold. Next turn was a little better but its gonna be a tough road. I am sure he filtered all of his repacements to his landbridge army but did a much better job of it then I usually do. I was planning on doing an AAR but so far my progress is typica of banging your head against the wall of a good Soviet playerl and nothing really different to report

(in reply to janh)
Post #: 126
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 9/26/2012 3:50:45 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6314
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
Ketza, if he's massing on the landbridge he won't be able to defend Leningrad in any great force. There's not enough early on to properly contest both places. You either send the reserve armies one place or the other. So smash him north of Vitebsk and then turn the center around Velikiye Luki after pushing past Pskov towards Leningrad.

Michael, if he's running to Poland this will be an interesting exercise in self restraint on your part. I know how I would respond to this but I'm doubting it fits your temperament.



_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 127
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 9/26/2012 10:03:04 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 2319
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
Well, he has me thinking.

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 128
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 9/26/2012 11:20:38 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1344
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline
Resist temptation: do not do it.

I did and got my ass handed to me by a monstrous Panzer fist: my opponent amassed everyone of his well-rested Panzer/MTZ units into an unstoppable chainsaw; I was saved only by mud. In the end it did not matter because I made up the losses in 2 turns but still, it is a bad day to open up a turn and see 10 - 20 divisions ensnared in a 1942 Panzer trap.

Your army is still more fragile than you think...becareful.


Mark

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 129
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 9/27/2012 9:17:55 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 1972
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline
I suppose you can keep marching west a bit, just to regain territory and force him to reconvert the hexes once he ( Pelton ) goes back on the offensive and use up some MPs.

(in reply to Marquo)
Post #: 130
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 9/27/2012 2:23:14 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1344
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline
Yes: the trick is to get a picket line next to him so he will lose more due to attrition; but do not overexpose. The Soviet army in 1942 is a true paper tiger.

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 131
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 9/29/2012 6:59:24 PM   
Ketza


Posts: 2212
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline
Here is the battle I mentioned.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Marquo)
Post #: 132
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 9/30/2012 10:31:08 AM   
janh

 

Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline
Modified AV only 40% better, despite being thrice the number of much better trained units.

But: No German against 701 russian tanks, of which surely not all where BT-5/7, T-26 and other obsolete types, at this point in time when German ID had a best poor AT capabilities against heavier tanks (37mm, or a few 88mm AAA if attached)! This probably one of the combats one should watch (ideally replay) with more message details.

Looking at the casualties, your ID still did do good damage: 108 AFV!

< Message edited by janh -- 9/30/2012 10:33:08 AM >

(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 133
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 10/3/2012 1:16:38 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1344
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline
Also no air, virtually no artillery and only one pioneer (status)?

(in reply to janh)
Post #: 134
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 10/3/2012 10:37:02 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 2319
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
Your opponent is relying on that front line holding. Not much depth. Surely a breakthrough with gased up Mech units would be a major disaster for him. I would like to take this guy on sometime if he does server games.

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Marquo)
Post #: 135
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 10/4/2012 12:35:44 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 2319
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
Looking at this situation again I probably would have gone through the hex 2 hexes to the south (open ground) of where you attacked, and then pushed through the open ground hexes and turned up behind these guys in the woods.

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 136
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 10/4/2012 10:57:51 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 2319
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
End Soviet Turn 21 (6 Nov 1941) Mud

Well, will the running stop now we have snow on T22. I have half kind of tempted an attack from his units in front of Smolensk. He has always professed he likes to start his 'AP Crunch' in Nov 41. So trying to make an offering to lure him forward again. He seems prepared for it. Hopefully it won't blow up in my face…

I have his T22 in the box but can't open it till I get home later on.

Sov OOB 5.96
Sov Cas 2.1
Sov Dis 780
Sov Man 2848
Tr Pool 216
Tr Units 132
Tr Repair 48
Total Tr 396

Ger OOB 3.38
Ger Cas 0.53
Ger Dis 351
OP AFV 2125





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 137
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 10/5/2012 8:10:16 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 2319
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
Nope, he is still running. Will report again at end of snow or some change in attitude.

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 138
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 10/5/2012 2:16:23 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1344
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline
Michael,

Becareful....your army is a paper tiger....


Marquo

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 139
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 10/5/2012 5:41:15 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 4379
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Back to Reality :(
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Nope, he is still running. Will report again at end of snow or some change in attitude.


Ah the chicken!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

Michael,

Becareful....your army is a paper tiger....

Marquo


The thing is -if he is truly heading for Poland (chicken!!)- paper tiger or not, he will spend half of the summer offensive approaching the Soviet lines. Then Michael still can afford land. By the end of 1942 the many Stavka/Fronts/Armies HQs cocktail cabinets should be necessarily closer to Berlin than their historical counterparts.

_____________________________

"Hang on, is that it...? Are we on the ring...?? Ready???" -- Nürburgring Seven Second Ring King

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 140
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 10/5/2012 5:53:59 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 2319
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
To be perfectly honest if I had known he was going to pull this kind of stunt I would not have entered in to the game. Its absurd. I am in half a mind to simply call it off. Its bloody boring and not my idea of fun at all. I am chomping at the bit to get my chance as Axis against him to tear his sorry arse apart. I just have to be patient and sit on my hands for 50 turns or so. Frustrating.

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 141
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 10/5/2012 5:59:37 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 1257
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: London
Status: offline
I can't imagine that it was anything other than a reaction to your successes.

Not that the explanation makes it less boring/silly for you.

_____________________________

web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 142
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 10/5/2012 6:01:23 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6314
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
Tullius, that's only true if the mass of the Red Army doesn't chase him all the way to the border and offers itself up in large digestible chunks to the Wehrmacht. What Pelton wants and needs is a rope a dope.

The trick here is to follow up that retreat with just enough stuff to encourage it, tear up all the rail lines, but leave the main line of resistance well behind a buffer zone of destroyed rail lines, so the spring and early summer Axis counteroffensive is wasted on empty space and repair, while the Red Army sits tight and digs in behind good terrain. (I like the Dnepr line here for the MLR.) But if the the pursuit force is too weak, then the Germans might stop running. So it's a tricky balancing act, and some bait may be required, with the expectation that said bait is potentially expendable.

Michael, the experience you're getting here in how to build Red Army 2.0 unmolested will stand you in good stead for future and more conventional games. Most players have to learn how to do it under far less favorable conditions and mostly get it wrong the first time around. You'll have a perfect blueprint in hand and can avoid those errors. So it's not a complete waste.

I also want you to show how wrong headed this entire Polish runaway strategy is and discourage anybody else from doing it in the future. Think of it as a public service anouncement to the PBEM community.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 10/5/2012 6:26:11 PM >


_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 143
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 10/5/2012 7:26:44 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 4379
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Back to Reality :(
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

To be perfectly honest if I had known he was going to pull this kind of stunt I would not have entered in to the game. Its absurd. I am in half a mind to simply call it off.


If he's lost this game (and yes, he has, no matter what), it's not because of this run-run-run-for-your-lives thing. He's done a horrible summer campaign. And of course you've done an excellent campaign.

It was clear (to him) that you did not care about the South. And yet in the two other main areas he spared one: the Center... Leningrad was his only target, and he did not even use the shortest, direct approach (and almost nothing can stop the German infantry + engineers + artillery + air support when sort of concentrated), but a long route via really tough hexes (south of the lake Ilmen). And to add insult to injury, you correctly detected his plan and thus concentrated your forces there.

He's done a really gross strategic mistake. But again, his opponent (aka you) has to be there to exploit it. And you skillfully were there!

He simply does not know what to do. Well, one thing he knows: he does not want to be destroyed during the winter. And given that Pelton is somewhat an extremist... to Poland, schnell schnell!!

_____________________________

"Hang on, is that it...? Are we on the ring...?? Ready???" -- Nürburgring Seven Second Ring King

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 144
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 10/5/2012 9:33:31 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 2319
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
Flavius your explanation of the situation and the reaction proposed is exactly what I intend. I have come to the conclusion I can do nothing in 1942 other than defend. So I will defend as far forward as safe to do so. Meanwhile I pursue but I have a leash, my ever diminishing truck pool. So this limits the number of pursuers anyhow. But he might also resign at the end of 42 when he realizes the futility of it all.

< Message edited by Michael T -- 10/5/2012 11:00:54 PM >


_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 145
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 10/6/2012 3:57:50 AM   
Ketza


Posts: 2212
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline
I had a player sort of do the same thing but I had destroyed a whole bunch of his army first due to him being out of position in the mud.

It took until the late summer of 42 to get the logistics sorted out. I did as mentioned here and tore up rail tracks and converted terrain with a scouting army. The game sort of fizzled around Nov 42 but I had a huge Soviet army just getting a massive winter offensive underway that was fun to build.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 146
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 10/6/2012 11:53:56 AM   
Balou


Posts: 477
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline
Michael,
what can one expect in sov OOB by mid or end 42 whithout serious enemy contact/fighting ? Are sov numbers more important than their exp/mor?

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 147
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 10/6/2012 8:53:42 PM   
Farfarer

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 7/21/2004
Status: offline
Pelton likely tried a win everywhere and won not everyhwere. I submit he is experimenting. If he or she made great strides, a standard blizzard fallback would be worth it. But now that it is pooched, why not a withdrawal, save 1,000,000 casualties, and attack the 8 million man Ant Army in 1942 ? A poster, I think he was Flavius :) said "1941 is foreplay".

(in reply to Balou)
Post #: 148
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 10/6/2012 10:34:45 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6314
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
Farfarer, because time and space, properly deployed, will defeat the rope a dope. You also were able to unleash the Finns and open up the entire northern flank; that's not going to happen here.

All Micheal need do is stall and deploy time and space until Red Army 2.0 comes online, and then he starts to push west for real, and will do so from a position far in advance from where the Soviets were historically, with his replacement pools filled to the brim.

If the Soviet player knows his business, the runaway will not only fail, but lead to an early end to the war, possibly a year or more in advance. You can't just run and give the Red Army a pass. It must be pressured.



_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Farfarer)
Post #: 149
RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) - 10/6/2012 10:50:45 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 2319
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
quote:

Michael,
what can one expect in sov OOB by mid or end 42 whithout serious enemy contact/fighting ? Are sov numbers more important than their exp/mor?


I think he intends to play 1942 like 1941 again, so there should be some hard fighting. But I expect to have around 8 million men by the start of the summer of 1942, maybe more. I will have 6.5 million by the time the blizzard starts. My Arm points are still above 200K.

I can't afford to build a bunch of INF Corp in 1942, they cost too much. So my offensive capabilities are very limited.



_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 150
Page:   <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton) Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.109