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RE: TO&E and OOB information

 
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RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/13/2012 12:35:07 PM   
aspqrz

 

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I'll get onto the Germans tomorrow, probably ... and that will be a big project, I think

Phil

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(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 31
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/13/2012 12:59:25 PM   
redmarkus4


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Thanks. Soviets are badly needed as well. Some people think they are overpowered while others say they have too few tanks.

If it turns out they are under powered at present we might need to look at the combat settings unit-by-unit to give the Germans a slightly better edge.

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(in reply to aspqrz)
Post #: 32
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/13/2012 3:34:09 PM   
aspqrz

 

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Soviets after Germans. I suspect that the information on them will be even more difficult to interpret than for the Axis Minors ... and that the TO&E figures will be more or less fanciful for most units in the field, and probably even for those coming in as reinforcements, as per Glantz's comments (i.e. only Guards units were ever close to full strength, the rest could be as little as 20% of nominal strength and still in the front line).

Phil

< Message edited by aspqrz -- 8/13/2012 3:40:07 PM >


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(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 33
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/13/2012 5:28:19 PM   
redmarkus4


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Thanks. Even a rough guide will be great. I feel that they are overpowered at the moment.

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(in reply to aspqrz)
Post #: 34
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/13/2012 7:44:28 PM   
High Krausen


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I've got a copy of Zaloga & Ness. Red Army Handbook, I'll see if I can't post some Soviet stuff later

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Post #: 35
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/13/2012 9:03:59 PM   
redmarkus4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: High Krausen

I've got a copy of Zaloga & Ness. Red Army Handbook, I'll see if I can't post some Soviet stuff later


Thanks.

I don't know about you guys, but I am finding Trappenjagd as the Axis with the AI on Normal pretty tough.

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(in reply to High Krausen)
Post #: 36
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/13/2012 9:15:06 PM   
sandman2575


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Whether playing Trappenjagd or Case Blue as the Germans -- the prospect of revising the OOB to give the SU *more* tanks (historically accurate or not) is terrifying.

(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 37
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/13/2012 9:23:17 PM   
Sator


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RUSSIAN RIFLE DIVISION (By S. Sheckells)


Russian Rifle Division - March 1942:

Manpower: Theo: 12,795 Actual: 3500 - 7500

1st Infantry Regiment 1 Artillery Regiment 1 Sapper Battalion
2nd Infantry Regiment 1 Antiaircraft Battalion 1 Signal Company
3rd Infantry Regiment 1 Anti Tank Battalion

Rifle Division July 1942:

Manpower: Theo: 10,386 Actual: 3000 - 5000

1st Infantry Regiment 1 Artillery Regiment 1 Sapper Battalion
2nd Infantry Regiment 1 Antiaircraft Battalion 1 Signal Company
3rd Infantry Regiment 1 Anti Tank Battalion


Rifle Division December 1942:

Manpower: Theo: 9,435 Actual: 3000 - 7000

1st Infantry Regiment 1 Artillery Regiment 1 Sapper Battalion
2nd Infantry Regiment 1 Anti Tank Battalion 1 Signal Company
3rd Infantry Regiment 1 Recon company


Rifle Division July 1943:

Manpower: Theo: 9,380 Actual: 3000 - 7000

1st Infantry Regiment 1 Artillery Regiment 1 Sapper Battalion
2nd Infantry Regiment 1 Anti Tank Battalion 1 Signal Company
3rd Infantry Regiment 1 Recon company



Rifle Division December 1944:

Manpower: Theo: 11,706 Actual: 3500 - 4500

1st Infantry Regiment 1 Artillery Regiment 1 Sapper Battalion
2nd Infantry Regiment 1 Anti Tank Battalion 1 Signal Company
3rd Infantry Regiment 1 Anti Aircraft Battalion (only with Guards)
1 Recon company





< Message edited by Sator -- 8/13/2012 11:28:23 PM >

(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 38
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/13/2012 10:15:04 PM   
canuck64


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Hey guys-you see how this goes...rock paper cissors....

if you make the SU more (historically I'm betting it's correct) sprinkled with tanks....

then you're going to have to break up the German air Groups to try to deal with it, from a balance point of view. Minimally. Or add lots of tactical AT elements on the German side.

As it is, I find the German operational flexibility to be about the same as the Russian, which should nowhere be the case. I'd even recommend adding pp costs to everything (and I do mean everything) the Russians do. My .02


(in reply to Sator)
Post #: 39
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/13/2012 10:22:16 PM   
Sator


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SOME RUSSIAN ARMOURED FORCES IN 1942 (By S. Sheckells)


Tank Battalion July 1942:

HQ Company: (1) sqd + (2) T34s

1 Medium Tank Company:
- HD Unit: (1) T34
- Platoon 1:(3) T34s
- Platoon 2:(3) T34s
- Platoon 3:(3) T34s

2 Medium Tank Company:
- HD Unit: (1) T34
- Platoon 1:(3) T34s
- Platoon 2:(3) T34s
- Platoon 3:(3) T34s

3 Light Tank Company
- Platoon 1:(3) T60/T70s
- Platoon 2:(3) T60/T70s
- Platoon 3:(3) T60/T70s



Tank Brigade July 1942:

1 HQ Company
1st Tank Battalion
2nd Tank Battalion
1 Motorized Rifle Battalion
1 Recon Company



Separate Tank Battalion July 1942:

HQ Company: (1) sqd + (1) Kvs + (2) T34s + (1) T60

1 Heavy Tank Company:
- HD Unit: (1) KV1
- Platoon 1:(2) KV1
- Platoon 2:(2) KV1

1 Medium Tank Company:
- HD Unit: (1) T34
- Platoon 1:(3) T34s
- Platoon 2:(3) T34s
- Platoon 3:(3) T34s

2 Medium Tank Company:
- HD Unit: (1) T34
- Platoon 1:(3) T34s
- Platoon 2:(3) T34s
- Platoon 3:(3) T34s

3 Light Tank Company
- HD Unit: (1) T60
- Platoon 1:(3) T60
- Platoon 2:(3) T60
- Platoon 3:(3) T60



Mechanized Brigade 1942:

1 HQ Company
1st Tank Regiment
1st Mech. Rifle Battalion
2nd Mech. Rifle Battalion
3rd Mech. Rifle Battalion

Note: SU76 were upgraded to SU85s, then SU85 were upgraded to SU122s.
The Mechanized Brigades did not change structure throughout the war (as far as I can tell).


Tank Corps 1942

3 (1941) Tank Brigades
1 (1941) Motorized Rifle Brigade
1 Mortar Battery
1 Armored Car Battalion
1 Sapper Company
2 Repair Companies
1 Motorcycle Battalion
(w/ Guards) 1 Mortar battalion



< Message edited by Sator -- 8/13/2012 11:27:39 PM >

(in reply to Sator)
Post #: 40
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/13/2012 10:53:32 PM   
Sator


Posts: 102
Joined: 8/8/2012
From: Italy
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Russian Rifle Brigade (from D. Porter):






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Sator -- 8/13/2012 11:25:21 PM >

(in reply to Sator)
Post #: 41
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/13/2012 10:56:09 PM   
Sator


Posts: 102
Joined: 8/8/2012
From: Italy
Status: online
Russian Motorized rifle brigade.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Sator)
Post #: 42
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/13/2012 11:15:41 PM   
Sator


Posts: 102
Joined: 8/8/2012
From: Italy
Status: online
A more detailed composition of a Russian Tank brigade (from C.C. Sharp).




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Sator -- 8/13/2012 11:24:24 PM >

(in reply to Sator)
Post #: 43
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/14/2012 2:55:21 AM   
High Krausen


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Here's what I dug up

RIFLE DIVISION  from July 1942
3x Rifle rgts 
   Each with 

    roughly 2500 line infantry
     10x 76 mm IG
      6x 45 mm ATG

1x Field Artillery rgt with

    32x 76mm guns
    12x 122 mm howitzers

1x MG Bn with 27 MMGs

1x AT Bn with 36x ATRs and 12x 45mm ATGs

1x Pioneer Bn with approx 150 pioneers

*********************************************************************
RIFLE BRIGADE from July 1942

Approx.  4000 line infantry
12x76mmfield guns
12x45mm ATGs

*********************************************************************
TANK BRIGADE. from July 1942

32 T34 (sometimes 23 in 2 Bn brigades)
21 T60 or T70 (consistent in the brigade)
Approx. 400 line infantry (truck motorized) in the MR Bn 

 *********************************************************************
TANK CORPS 2nd half of 1942

2x Tank Brigade (as above)
1x Mot. Rifle Brigade
     Approx. 3500 line infantry
     12x 76mm field guns
     12x 45mm ATGs
Reconnaissance Bn (from Dec '42)
     20x BA64 armored cars
*********************************************************************
MECHANIZED CORPS from Sept. 1942 to Jan. 1943
3x Mech. Bde. Consisting of
      Approx 2400 line infantry ( truck motorized)
      10xBA64 armored cars
      23x T34
      16x T60 or T70 
      12x 76mm field guns
      12x 45mm ATGs
1x Tank Bde. (as above)
*********************************************************************
MECHANIZED CORPS from Jan. 1943
3x Mech. Bde. Consisting of
      Approx 2400 line infantry ( truck motorized)
      10xBA64 armored cars
      32x T34
      7x T60 or T70 
      12x 76mm field guns
      12x 45mm ATGs
1x Tank Bde. (as above)
1x Reconnaissance Bn
       Either a Motorcycle Bn consisting of
           Approx 300 line infantry (on motorcycles)
           10x BA64 armored cars
       Or an armored car Bn consisting of
            20 BA64 armored cars

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Post #: 44
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/14/2012 3:42:27 AM   
aspqrz

 

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2nd Army, AGS (June 1942)

DCCB Organisation: 900 Staff, 500 Infantry, 150 Trucks

Army Troops (Actual): 88th ID, 383rd ID, 1 SPAA Battalion, 1 SPAA Company (protecting 2nd Army HQ), 1 SPAT Battalion, 1 MP Battalion, 1 Artillery Regiment (Mot) (1 x 240mm Battalion, 1 x 150mm Battalion), 1 Luftwaffe AA Regiment (Mot) (1 Mixed AA Battalion (3 Batteries 88mm, 1 Battery 37mm), 1 SPAA Battalion (1 Battery 37mm SPAA, 2 Batteries 20mm SPAA)), 2 Luftwaffe AA Battalions (Mot), 2 Luftwaffe Lt AA Battalions (Mot)

OKH Reserves en-route to 2nd Army: 323rd ID, 340th ID

Attached Corps (DCCB): LV Corps

Attached Corps (Actual): LV Corps (2nd Corps attached to 2nd Hungarian Army)

DCCB Corps HQ - LV Corps: 900 Infantry, 800 Staff, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm AA

DCCB Corps Troops: 45th ID, 95th ID, 299th ID, 1st SS (Mot) Brigade, 1 Engineer Regiment, 1 Assault Gun Battalion (25 Marder II), 2 x Artillery Regiments (each 500 Infantry, 150 Trucks 25 105mm LeFH, 25 150mm SFH)

Actual Corps Troops: 45th ID, 95th ID, 299th ID, 1st SS (Mot) Brigade, 1 AT Battalion (Mot), 1 SP Assault Howitzer Battalion, 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot) (150mm Howitzer), 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot) (210mm Howitzer), 1 x Artilery Regiment (Mot) (105mm Gun), 1 x Artillery Regiment (105mm Howitzer), 1 x Engineer Regiment (Mot) (2 Engineer Battalions)

Suggested DCCB 2nd Army Organisation: 900 Staff, 500 2nd Line Infantry, 150 Trucks, 20 x 20mm AA.

Suggested DCCB 2nd Army Attachments: 1 x SPAA Battalion (200 2nd Rate Infantry (German), 150 Trucks, 30 x 20mm AA, 10 x 88mm AA), (25 1 Assault Gun Battalion (25 Marder II), 1 x Artillery Regiment (250 2nd Rate Infantry, (German), 150 Trucks, 25 x 240mm Artillery*, 25 x 150mm Artillery), 3 x Luftwaffe AA Battalion (Mot) (200 2nd Rate Infantry (German), 150 Trucks, 30 x 20mm AA, 10 x 37mm AA), 1 x Luftwaffe SPAA Battalion (30 x 20mm SPAA*, 10 x 37mm SPAA"),

* 240mm Artillery not modelled in game ... needs to be added! 20mm SPAA and 37mm SPAA not modelled (Wirbelwind? Ostwind? Or on Halftracks? Not sure for 42)

Suggested LV Corps HQ Organisation: 900 2nd Line Infantry, 800 Staff, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm AA

Suggested LV Corps Troops: 45th ID, 95th ID, 299th ID, 1st SS (Mot) Brigade, 1 x AT Battalion (Mot)**, 1 x SP Assault Howitzer Battalion**, 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot) (250 2nd Rate Infantry, (German), 150 Trucks, 25 x 210mm Artillery**, 25 x 150mm Artillery), 1 Artillery Regiment (Mot) (250 2nd Rate Infantry, (German), 150 Trucks, 25 x 105mm Gun**, 25 x 105mm Howitzer), 1 Engineer Regiment.

** May be same as SPAT (Marder II) Battalion in DCCB organisation. Or not. SP Assault Howitzer (StuH III with 105mm Howitzer, which isn't modelled in the game or, possibly, StuH IIIe, which is). 210mm not modelled in the game, and needs to be. 105mm Gun not modelled, perhaps use 105mm Howitzer instead, for ease?

Note: There are considerable differences in the amount of attached Artillery and other troops at Army and Corps level between vanilla DCCB and reality. Presumably, the added Artillery will give the German player more ... ooomph ... when he is attacking, making their job easier ... at least, every 4th turn

Phil

< Message edited by aspqrz -- 8/14/2012 3:54:41 AM >


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(in reply to Sator)
Post #: 45
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/14/2012 5:34:26 AM   
aspqrz

 

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4th Panzer Army, AGS (June 1942)

DCCB Army HQ: 1000 Staff, 500 Infantry, 150 trucks

DCCB Army Troops: 88th ID, 323rd ID, 340th ID.

Actual Army Troops: 1 x SPAA Battalion (20mm), 1 Luftwaffe AA Battalion (Mot) (3 Batteries 88mm, 1 Battery 20mm), 1 Luftwaffe AA Battalion (3 Batteries 88mm, 1 Battery 20mm)

Suggested DCCB Army HQ Organisation: 1 x SPAA Battalion (25 x 20mm SPAA, Armour or 1/2 Track), 1 x Luftwaffe AA Battalion (Mot) (200 2nd Line Infantry, 25 88mm, 25 20mm, 150 Trucks), 1 x Luftwaffe AA Battalion (200 2nd Line Infantry, 25 88mm, 25 20mm)

=====

DCCB XIII Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 700 Infantry, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt Flak

DCCB XIII Corps: 82nd ID, 385th ID, 11 PzDiv

Actual XIII Corps: 82nd ID*, 385th ID, 11th PzDiv, 1 x AT Battalion (SP), 1 x Nebelwerfer Regiment (Mot) (150mm), 1 x Nebelwerfer Regiment (Mot)* (280mm and 320mm), 1 x Artillery Battalion (Mot) (105mm Gun), 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot) (150mm Howitzer), 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot) (210mm Howitzer), 1 Engineer Regiment (2 Engineer Battalions)

*82nd ID is understrength through detachments ... no idea where or by how much. Heavy Nebelwerfer Regiment also with detachments ... and, presumably, 280/320mm Nebelwerfer not modelled in game.

Suggested DCCB Organisation, XIII Corps: 82nd ID, 385th ID, 11 PzDiv, 1 x AT Battalion (25 Marder II), 2 x Nebelwerfer Regiments (1 with 150mm, 1 with 280/320mm), 1 Artillery Regiment (200 2nd Rate Infantry, 150 Trucks, 25 x 105mm Gun, 25 x 150mm Howitzer, 25 x 210mm Howitzer), 1 Engineer Regiment

=====

DCCB XXIV Panzer Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 1000 Infantry, 250 Truck, 20 x 20mm Lt AA.

DCCB XXIV Panzer Corps: 377th ID, 3rd (Mot) ID, 9th PzDiv

Actual XXIV Panzer Corps: 3rd (Mot) ID, 9th PzDiv, 1 x AT Battalion (SP), 1 x Nebelwerfer Regiment (Mot) (150mm), 1 x Nebelwerfer Regiment (Mot)* (280mm and 320mm), 1 x Artillery Battalion (Mot) (105mm Gun), 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot) (150mm Howitzer), 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot) (210mm Howitzer), 1 Engineer Regiment (1 Engineer Battalion, 1 Bridging Engineer Battalion), 1 x Luftwaffe AA Battalion (Mot) (2 Batteries, 20mm AA; 1 Battery, 37mm AA), 1 x Luftwaffe AA Battalion (Mot), 3 Batteries 88mm, 2 Batteries 20mm)

Suggested DCCB Organisation, XXIV Panzer Corps: 3rd (Mot) ID, 9th PzDiv, 1 x AT Battalion (25 Marder II), 2 x Nebelwerfer Regiments (1 with 150mm, 1 with 280/320mm), 1 Artillery Regiment (200 2nd Rate Infantry, 150 Trucks, 25 x 105mm Gun, 25 x 150mm Howitzer, 25 x 210mm Howitzer), 1 Engineer Regiment, 1 x Luftwaffe AA Battalion (Mot) (200 2nd Rate Infantry, 25 x 20mm AA, 10 x 37mm AA, 150 trucks), 1 x Luftwaffe AA Battalion (Mot) (200 2nd Rate Infantry, 25 x 88mm, 25 x 20mm, 150 trucks)

=====

DCCB XXXXVIII/IIL Corps HQ: 1000 Infantry, 900 Staff, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm AA

DCCB Corps: Grossdeutschland Division, 24th PzDiv, 1 Engineer Battalion

Actual XXXXVIII/IIL Corps: 377th ID, Grossdeutschland Motorised ID, 24th PzDiv, 1 x SPAT Battalion*, 1 x SP Assault Howitzer Battalion, 1 x Nebelwerfer Battalion (Mot) (150mm), 1 x Nebelwerfer Regiment (Mot) (280mm and 320mm), 3 x Artillery Battalions (Mot) (105mm Gun), 1 x Artillery Battalion (Mot) (210mm Howitzer), 1 x Mixed Artillery Battalion (Mot) (2 Batteries 150mm Howitzer, 1 Battery 105mm Howitzer), Engineer Regiment (1 x Engineer Battalion, 1 x Bridge Engineer Battalion), 2 x Luftwaffe AA Battalions (Mot) (each of 3 x 88mm Batteries, 2 x 20mm Batteries)

* Understrength - no idea how much.

Suggested DCCB XXXXVIII/IIL Corps HQ Organisation: 1000 2nd Rate Infantry, 900 Staff, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm AA

Suggested DCCB XXXXVIII/IIL Corps Organisation: 377th ID, Grossdeutschland Motorised ID, 24th PzDiv, 1 x SPAT Battalion (nominally 25 Marder II, but understrength), 2 x Nebelwerfer Regiments (1 with 150mm, 1 with 280/320mm), 1 x Artillery Battalion (Mot) (200 2nd Rate Infantry, 150 Trucks, 75 x 105mm Gun), 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot) (200 2nd Line Infantry, 150 trucks, 25 x 210mm Howitzer, 15 x 150mm Howitzer, 10 x 105mm Howitzer), 2 x Luftwaffe AA Battalions (Mot) (each of 200 2nd Rate Infantry, 20 x 88mm, 20 x 20mm AA, 150 trucks).

Note: Again, significant differences in Artillery available, and in the attachment of Divisions to Corps etc.

Phil

< Message edited by aspqrz -- 8/14/2012 5:46:31 AM >


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(in reply to aspqrz)
Post #: 46
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/14/2012 5:51:49 AM   
aspqrz

 

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From the two Army level OOB/TO&E's I've done for the Germans so far, the actual German artillery strength is *much* greater in reality than in vanilla DCCB ... ditto AA strength (Luftwaffe AA units seem to have been entirely left out), and there are also Assault Howitzer Battalions (StuH IIIs I'd guess) missing as well.

And that's only at *Army* level.

When I get a chance to drill down to Divisional TO&E's I would not at all be surprised if they are understrength in key areas as well.

We will see!

Phil

_____________________________

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(in reply to canuck64)
Post #: 47
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/14/2012 8:15:24 AM   
aspqrz

 

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Joined: 7/20/2004
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6th Army, AGS (28 June 1942)

DCCB 6th Army HQ: 900 Staff, 500 Infantry, 150 Trucks

DCCB 6th Army: VIII Corps, XVII Corps, XIX Corps, XXXX Corps, LI Corps, 2 x Artillery Regiments, 1 x Engineer Regiment, 1 x Flak Regiment, 1 x SPAT Battalion

Actual 6th Army: VIII Corps, XVII Corps, XXIX Corps, Corps, 1 x Security Division, 1 x Infantry Regiment (Croation, augmented*), 3 x Artillery Battalions (Mot) (150mm Howitzer), 2 Mixed Artillery Battalions (Mot) (each of 2 Batteries, 150mm Howitzer, 1 Battery 105mm Guns), 2 x Artillery Battalions (Mot) (210mm Howitzer), 1 Independent Battery (210mm Howitzer), 1 Luftwaffe AA Regiment (Mot)

* Croatian Infantry Regiment is "augmented" ... additional troops? artillery? dunno.

Suggested DCCB 6th Army HQ: 900 Staff, 250 2nd Rate Infantry, 150 Trucks

Suggested DCCB Corps Troops: 1 x Security Division, 1 x Independent Infantry Regiment, 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot) (200 2nd Rate Infantry, 75 x 105mm Guns, 150 trucks), 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot) (200 2nd Rate Infantry, 30 x 150mm, 20 x 105mm Guns, 150 Trucks), 1 Artillery Regiment (Mot) (200 2nd Rate Infantry, 40 x 210mm, 150 Trucks), 1 x Luftwaffe AA Regiment (200 2nd Rate Infantry, 30 x 20mm AA, 10 x 88mm AA, 150 trucks).

=====
VIII Corps

DCCB Corps HQ: 1000 Infantry, 1000 Staff, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

DCCB Corps Troops: 305th ID, 376th ID, 389th ID, Engineers

Actual VIII Corps: 305th ID, 376th ID, 389th ID, Assault Howitzer Battalion, Artillery Regiment (Mot) (1 x 105mm Gun Battalion, 1 x 150mm Howitzer Battery), Engineer Regiment (1 Engineer Battalion, 1 Roadbuilding Engineer Battalion)

Suggested VIII Corps HQ: 500 2nd Rate Infantry, 1000 Staff, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

Suggested VIII Corps: 305th ID, 376th ID, 389th ID, 1 x Assault Howitzer Battalion (StuH III?), 1 Artillery Regiment (25 x 105mm Guns, 10 x 150mm Howitzer), Engineer Regiment.

=====
XVII Corps

DCCB Corps HQ: 1000 Infantry, 1000 Staff, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

DCCB Corps Troops: 79th ID, 113rd ID, 294th ID, Engineers

Actual XVII Corps: 79th ID, 113rd ID, 294th ID, Assault Howitzer Battalion, 1 x SPAT Battalion

Suggested XVII Corps HQ: 500 2nd Rate Infantry, 1000 Staff, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

Suggested XVII Corps: 79th ID, 113rd ID, 294th ID, 1 x Assault Howitzer Battalion (StuH III?), 1 x SPAT (Marder II) Battalion.

=====
XXIX Corps

DCCB Corps HQ: 1000 Infantry, 1000 Staff, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

DCCB Corps Troops: 57th ID, 75th ID, 168th ID, Engineers

Actual XXIX Corps: 57th ID, 75th ID, 168th ID, Assault Howitzer Battalion

Suggested XXIX Corps HQ: 500 2nd Rate Infantry, 1000 Staff, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

Suggested XXIX Corps: 57th ID, 75th ID, 168th ID, 1 x Assault Howitzer Battalion (StuH III?)

=====
XXXX Motorised Corps

DCCB Corps HQ: 1100 Infantry, 900 Staff, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

DCCB Corps Troops: 100th ID, 336th ID, 168th ID, 29th Mot Infantry Div, 3rd PzDiv, 23rd PzDiv, Engineers

Actual XXXX Corps: 100th ID, 336th ID, 168th ID, 29th Mot Infantry Div, 3rd PzDiv, 23rd PzDiv, 1 x SPAT Battalion, 1 x Artillery Battalion (Mot) (105mm Gun), 1 x Artillery Battalion (Mot) (150mm Howitzer), 1 x Artillery Battalion (Mot) (210mm Howitzer*), Engineer Regiment (1 Engineer Battalion, 1 Bridge Engineer Battalion)

* 210mm Howitzer Battalion is understrength.

Suggested XXXX Corps HQ: 500 2nd Rate Infantry, 1000 Staff, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

Suggested XXXX Corps: 100th ID, 336th ID, 168th ID, 29th Mot Infantry Div, 3rd PzDiv, 23rd PzDiv, 1 x SPAT Battalion (25 Marder II), 1 x Artillery Regiment (200 2nd Rate Infantry, 20 x 105mm Gun, 20 x 150mm Howitzer, 10 x 210mm Howitzer, 150 trucks), 1 Engineer Regiment

=====

Note: Again, considerable differences, especially with regards to Artillery.

Phil

_____________________________

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(in reply to aspqrz)
Post #: 48
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/14/2012 9:44:54 AM   
aspqrz

 

Posts: 718
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
11th Army, AGS (28 July 1942)

DCCB Army HQ: 1000 Staff, 500 Infantry, 150 Trucks

DCCB Army Troops: LIV Corps, XXX Corps, XXXX Corps

Actual 11th Army: XXX Corps, LIV Corps, XXXXII Corps, Romanian Mountain Corps, 1 Panzer Battalion, 1 Panzer Company, 2 x Coastal Artillery Battalions (Understrength, 105mm Guns), 2 Coastal Artillery Battalions (150mm Guns)

Suggested DCCB 11th Army HQ: 1000 Staff, 250 2nd Rate Infantry, 150 Trucks

Suggested DCCB 11th Army Troops: XXX Corps, LIV Corps, XXXXII Corps, Romanian Mountain Corps, 1 x Panzer Battalion (40 Tanks?), 2 x Coastal Artillery Battalions (100 2nd Rate Infantry, 20 x 105mm Guns each), 2 x Coastal Artillery Battalions (100 2nd Rate Infantry 25 150mm Guns each) ... optionally, combine into 2 x Coastal Artillery Regiment (each of 200 2nd Rate Infantry, 20 x 105mm Guns, 25 x 150mm Guns).

=====
XXX Corps

DCCB XXX Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 500 Infantry, 150 Trucks

DCCB XXX Corps Troops: 28th ID, 72nd ID, 170th ID, 3 x Artillery Regiments, 1 Nebelwerfer Regiment, 1 Armoured Engineer Battalion, 1 Assault Howitzer Battalion

Actual XXX Corps: 8th (Light) ID, 72nd ID, 170th ID, 1 x Assault Howitzer (StuH III?), 1 x Lt AA Battalion (Mot), 1 Nebelwerfer Regiment (Mot) (1 x 150mm Battalion, 1 x 280/320mm Battalion), 1 Artillery Battalion (Mot) (150mm Howitzer), 1 Artillery Battery (Mot) (150mm Howitzer), 2 Artillery Batteries (Mot) (105mm Gun), 1 Artillery Battalion (Mot) (3 Batteries 105mm Howitzer, 1 Battery 150mm Gun, 1 Battery 210mm Howitzer), 1 Battery (Mot) (305mm Howizter), 2 Coastal Artillery Batteries (105mm Gun), 1 Engineer Regiment (Engineer Battalion (Mot), Engineer Battalion, Assault Boat Company)

Suggested DCCB XXX Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 250 2nd Rate Infantry, 150 Trucks

Suggested DCCB XXX Corps Troops: 8th (Light) ID, 72nd ID, 170th ID, 1 x Assault Howitzer (25 StuH III?),, 1 x AA Battalion (Mot) (100 2nd Rate Infantry, 25 x 20mm AA, 150 Trucks), Nebelwerfer Regiment (150mm, 280/320mm), 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot) (200 2nd Rate Infantry, 35 x 150mm Howitzer, 100 Trucks), 1 x Artillery Regiment (200 2nd Rate Infantry, 50 x 105mm Gun, 150 Trucks), 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot) (200 2nd Rate Infantry, 1 x Artillery Regiment (200 2nd Rate Infantry, 10 x 150mm Gun, 10 x 210mm Howitzer, 10 x 305mm Howitzer, 150 trucks), 1 x Coastal Artillery Regiment (150 2nd Rate Infantry, 20 x 105mm Gun), 1 Engineer Regiment.

=====
XXXXII Corps

DCCB XXXXII Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 500 Infantry, 150 Trucks

DCCB XXXXII Corps Troops: 46 ID, 1 Engineer Regiment

Actual XXXXII Corps: 132nd ID, 3 x Coastal Artillery Battalion (150mm Gun, 1 Battalion at reduced strength), Engineert Battalion (1 x Amphib Landing Company, 1 x Assault Boat Company, 1 x Bridging Company)

Suggested DCCB XXXII Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 250 2nd Rate Infantry, 150 Trucks

Suggested DCCB XXXXII Corps Troops: 132nd ID, 1 x Coastal Artillery Regiment (250 2nd Rate Infantry, 50 x 105mm Gun), 1 Engineer Regiment.

=====
LIV Corps

DCCB LIV Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 500 Infantry, 150 Trucks

DCCB LIV Corps Troops: 22nd ID, 24th ID, 50th ID, 132nd ID, 1 Engineer Regiment, 3 x Artillery Regiment, 1 x Nebelwerfer Regiment, 2 Assault Howitzer Battalion, 1 Flak Regiment, 3 x Heavy Artillery Regiments

Actual LIV Corps: 22nd ID, 24th ID, 46th ID, 50th ID, 2 Assault Gun Battalions (StuH III?), 1 x RR Artillery Regiment (RR) (1 x 280mm Gun Battery (Ig Bruno), 1 x 420mm Howitzer Battery (Gamma), 1 x 800mm Gun Battalion (Dora), 1 Artillery Regiment (Mot) (3 x 150mm Howitzer Battalion, 1 x Mixed Battalion (1 Battery 105mm Gun, 2 Batteries 150mm Howitzer), 1 x 305mm Howitzer Battalion (understrength), 1 x Mixed Battalion (305mm and 355mm Howizters), 1 x 420mm Howitzer Battery), 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot) (1 x 105mm Gun Battalion (understrength), 1 x 150mm Gun Battalion (understrength), 1 x 210mm Howitzer Battalion, 2 x 240mm Howitzer Battalion, 1 x 305mm Howitzer Battalion), 1 SP Artillery Battalion (600mm Howitzer (Karl)), 1 SP Artillery Battery (149mm Gun)), 1 Nebelwerfer Regiment (Mot) (280/320mm), 1 Nebelwerfer Regiment (Mot) (1 x 105mm Battalion, 2 x 150mm Battalion), 2 x Coastal Artillery Batteries (105mm Gun), 4 x Coastal Artillery Batteriers (280mm Howitzer), 1 x Coastal Artillery Battery (?), 1 Engineer Regiment (1 x Engineer Battalion (Mot), 1 x Engineer Battalion (Cycle), 1 Assault Boat Company)

Suggested DCCB LIV Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 250 2nd Rate Infantry, 150 Trucks

Suggested DCCB LIV Corps Troops: 22nd ID, 24th ID, 46th ID, 50th ID, 2 Assault Gun Battalions (StuH III?), Artillery Regiments (not now ... too complex, need to be dealt with separately), Engineer Regiment.

Phil

< Message edited by aspqrz -- 8/14/2012 9:45:46 AM >


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(in reply to aspqrz)
Post #: 49
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/14/2012 1:31:36 PM   
amatteucci

 

Posts: 320
Joined: 5/14/2000
From: ITALY
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4
I don't know about you guys, but I am finding Trappenjagd as the Axis with the AI on Normal pretty tough.

I belive you. Playing as the Soviets, I managed to utterly annihilate the Axis forces by the end of August. At the beginning of September, the only place on map that was still under German control were three (3!) hexes near Odessa.

On the other hand I'm experiencing severe difficulties in containing German advance and keeping my losses to acceptable level when playing with a competent human opponent in PBEM.

So, I think that this boils down to two (obvious) factors:
1) The AI is handicapped when playing the more operationally evoluted side (e.g. the Germans).
2) Playing vs. the Ai at "normal" shouldn't be taken as a basis for game balance since "normal" means giving substantial bonus to the computer player.

Having said so, I also feel that the Soviets are in some ways overpowered but it probably depend on some aspects of the game engine and database values. For example, we all said that artillery and HQ units seem too resilent when defending. Moreover, some piece of hardaware are probably overpowered (or other underpowered), see the discussion about the T-34 and KV-1 guns being rated on par with the German long 7,5cm.


quote:


As it is, I find the German operational flexibility to be about the same as the Russian, which should nowhere be the case. I'd even recommend adding pp costs to everything (and I do mean everything) the Russians do. My .02

I agree that the Soviets might have too much operational flexibility (but, again, I underline the fact that, while I felt a demigod against the AI, I'm experiencing severe problems against human players). But I don't think that the solution is to starve (pp wise) the Soviet player. On the contrary, I think that the Soviet player is already receiving less political points than those necessary to replicate historical reality. Just for example, during the opening phases of Blau, Stavka decided to form a second strategic echelon with some reserve armies to plug the gaps opened by German advance. By 10 July, four new armies were ready along the Don, the 6th, 60th, 62nd and 63rd. Now, these armies are not "free" for the Soviet player, since they do not pup up as reinforcement. You have to create them from stratch and you need also to play some staff replacement cards to have them properly staffed. Now, it is my experience, playing Blau that you'll never be able to create and properly equip four new army HQs by mid July, not to speak of the fact that many divisions that were in them are not (yet) available as reinforcement in the game.


(in reply to canuck64)
Post #: 50
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/14/2012 2:54:34 PM   
aspqrz

 

Posts: 718
Joined: 7/20/2004
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17th Army, AGS (28 June 42)

DCCB 17th Army HQ: 1000 Staff, 500 Infantry, 150 Trucks

DCCB 17th Army: IC Corps, IL Corps, LII Corps, LVII Corps, CSIR (Italians), 371st ID, 2 x Artillery Regiments, 1 x Assault Howizter Battalion,

Actual Troops 17th Army: IV Corps, XXXXIX Mountain Corps, LII Corps, CSIR Corps, 371st ID (OKH Reserve en route) 1 x Lt SPAA Battalion, 2 (?) x Luftwaffe AA Battalions

Suggested DCCB 17th Army HQ Organisation: 1000 Staff, 250 2nd Rate Infantry, 150 Trucks

Suggested DCCB 17th Army Organisation: IV Corps, XXXXIX Mountain Corps, LII Corps, CSIR Corps, 1 x Lt. SPAA Battalion, 2 x Luftwaffe AA Battalions

Note: Incomplete information. I think. Or not. Dunno. Will continue looking.

=====
IV Corps

DCCB IV Corps HQ: 1000 Infantry, 1000 Staff, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

DCCB IV Corps: 9th ID, 76th ID, 94th ID, 295th ID, Engineer Battalion

Actual IV Corps: 9th ID (understrength),76th ID, 94th ID, 295th ID, 370th ID, 3371st ID (en route, on foot), 1 x Assault Howitzer Battalion, 1 x AA Battalion (Mot), 1 x SPAA Battalion, 1 x Engineer Battalion (Bicycle?)

Suggested DCCB IV Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 500 x 2nd Rate Infantry, 250 trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

Suggested DCCB IV Corps: 9th ID (understrength),76th ID, 94th ID, 295th ID, 370th ID, 3371st ID (en route, on foot), 1 x Assault Howitzer Battalion (StuH III 105?), 1 x AA Battalion (Mot), 1 x SPAA Battalion, 1 x Engineer Battalion (Bicycle?).

=====
XXXXIX/IL Mountain Corps

DCCB XXXXIX/IL Corps HQ: 1000 Infantry, 1000 Staff, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

DCCB XXXXIX/IL Corps: 4th ID, 198th ID, 1 x Engineer Battalion.

Actual XXXXIX/IL Corps: 4th Mountain Div, 198th ID, 1 x Lt SPAA Battalion, 1 x Artillery Battalion (Mot) (210mm Howitzer), Engineer Battalion

Suggested DCCB XXXXIX/IL Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 500 x 2nd Rate Infantry, 250 trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

Suggested DCCB XXXXIX/IL Corps: 4th Mountain Div, 198th ID, 1 Lt SPAA Battalion, 1 x Artillery Battalion (100 2nd Rate Infantry, 25 x 210mm Howitzer, 100 Trucks)

=====
LII Corps

DCCB LII Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 1000 Infantry, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm AA

DCCB LII Corps: 111th ID, 370th ID, 1 x Assault Howitzer Battalion, 1 x Engineer Battalion.

Actual LII Corps: 111th ID, 1 x Assault Howitzer Battalion

Suggested DCCB LII Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 500 x 2nd Rate Infantry, 250 trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

Suggested DCCB LII Corps: 111th ID, 1 x Assault Howitzer Battalion

=====
LVII Corps

DCCB LVII Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 1000 Infantry, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm AA

DCCB LVII Corps: 73rd ID, 298th ID, SS Wiking (Mot) Div, Slovak Fast Div, 13th PzDiv, Engineer Battalion.

Actual LVII Corps: nil

Suggested DCCB LVII Corps HQ: nil

Suggested DCCB LVII Corps: nil

Phil

< Message edited by aspqrz -- 8/14/2012 2:57:30 PM >


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(in reply to amatteucci)
Post #: 51
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/14/2012 2:56:04 PM   
redmarkus4


Posts: 4122
Joined: 12/1/2007
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Status: offline
I have been thinking about the reinforcement issue as well.

I think the solution is to weaken the Soviet starting line up and possibly increase their PP costs, while adding the historical reinforcements to the game so that 4 new armies do appear at the appropriate moment.

I would focus things less on free-style build anything you want mode and more on 'here are the cards you get to play, issued in this sequence, but they are mainly free'.

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(in reply to amatteucci)
Post #: 52
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/14/2012 3:00:24 PM   
aspqrz

 

Posts: 718
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
Maybe. But maybe best to wait for a closer look at the Soviet beginning OOB at Corps and higher levels ... it may not be needed (or may be needed more ...)

I'll get onto it eventually, but doing the Germans will take a while. 2 More Armies for AGS before I can drill down to Divisional and lower TO&Es.

Phil

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(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 53
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/14/2012 3:11:23 PM   
aspqrz

 

Posts: 718
Joined: 7/20/2004
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OKH = Army Group South (28 July 1942)*

DCCB OKH HQ: 1000 Staff (German), 500 Infantry (German), 100 Staff (Italian), 100 Staff (Hungarian), 50 Trucks, 40 Trains, 20 Halftrack, 5 x 20mm Lt Flak.

DCCB OKH Troops: 213th Security Div, 115th Hungarian Light Division.

Actual AGS Troops: 298th ID, 550th Security Div, 213th Security Div, 444th Security Div, 105th (Hungarian) Security Div, 108th (Hungarian) Security Div, 1 x Security Regiment (Bicycle? Motorcycle?). 1x MP Battalion (Mot), 1 x SS MP Battalion (Mot), 3 x Security Battalions, 1 x MP Watch Battalion, 1 Panzer Company

DCCB Suggested OKH/AGS HQ: 1000 Staff (German), 250 2nd Rate Infantry (German), 100 Staff (Italian), 100 Staff (Hungarian), 50 Trucks, 40 Trains, 20 Halftrack, 5 x 20mm Lt Flak.

DCCB Suggested AGS Troops: 298th ID, 550th Security Div, 213th Security Div, 444th Security Div, 105th (Hungarian) Security Div, 108th (Hungarian) Security Div, 1 x Security Regiment (Bicycle? Motorcycle?). 1x MP Battalion (Mot), 1 x SS MP Battalion (Mot), 3 x Security Battalions, 1 x MP Watch Battalion, 1 Panzer Company

Phil

* Since AGS isn't present in the game, OKH stands for it.

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(in reply to aspqrz)
Post #: 54
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/15/2012 3:27:46 AM   
aspqrz

 

Posts: 718
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
1st Panzer Army, AGS (28 July 1942)

DCCB HQ: 1000 Staff, 500 Infantry, 150 Trucks

DCCB Troops: 6th (Romanian) Corps, III Corps, XI Corps, XIV Corps, XXXXVI Corps, 5th (Romanian) Cavalry XX, 6th (Romanian) Cavalry XX, 444th Security XX, 454th Security XX, 1 AA Regiment, 2 Artillery Regiments

Actual 1st Panzer Army: VI (Romanian) Corps, III Panzer Corps, XI Corps, LI Corps, XXXXIV Corps, 1st Mountain XX, 454th Security XX, 1 x MG Battalion (Mot), 1 x Luftwaffe AA Regiment (3 x 88mm Batteries, 2 x 20mm Batteries (Semi-Mobile); 1 x 37mm Battery, 2 mixed 20/37mm Batteries (Semi-mobile))

Suggested DCCB 1st Pz Army HQ: 1000 Staff, 250 2nd Rate Infantry, 150 Trucks

Suggested DCCB 1st Pz Army Troops: 1st Mountain XX, 454th Security XX, 1 x Luftwaffe AA Regiment (30 x 20mm Lt AA, 20 x 37mm Lt AA, 10 x 88mm AA)

=====
III Panzer Corps

DCCB III Panzer Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 1000 Infantry, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

DCCB III Panzer Corps Troops: LAH SS Division, 16th Pz Div, 22nd Pz Div, 1 Engineer Regiment, 1 Assault Howitzer Battalion

Actual III Panzer Corps: 60th Motorised Infantry Div, 14th Pz Div, 16th Pz Div, 22nd Pz. Div, 1 x Nebelwerfer Battalion (150mm), 1 x Assault Gun Battalion, 1 x Artillery Battalion (Mot) (105mm Gun), 1 x Artillery Battalion (Mot) (1 Battery 105mm Gun, 2 Batteries 150mm Howitzers), 1 x Artillery Battalion (Mot) (understrength, 150mm Gun), 1 x Artillery Battalion (Mot) (210mm Howitzer), 1 x Engineer Battalion, 1 x Luftwaffe AA Regiment (1 x Static AA Battalion (3 Batteries 88mm, 2 Batteries 20mm), 1 x Luftwaffe SPAA Battalion (2 Batteries 20mm, 1 Battery 37mm)

Suggested DCCB III Panzer Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 500 2nd Rate Infantry, 150 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

Suggested DCCB III Panzer Corps Troops: 60th Motorised Infantry Div, 14th Pz Div, 16th Pz Div, 22nd Pz. Div, 1 x Nebelwerfer Battalion (150mm), 1 x Assault Gun Battalion (Marder II), 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot) (35 x 105mm Gun, 20 x 150mm Gun, 10 x 150mm Howitzer, 25 x 210mm Howitzer, 200 2nd Rate Infantry, 150 Trucks), 1 x Engineer Battalion, 1 x Luftwaffe AA Regiment (200 2nd Rate Infantry, 40 x 20mm Lt AA, 10 x 37mm Lt AA, 30 x 88mm AA)

=====
LI Corps

DCCB LI Corps HQ: doesn't exist

DCCB LI Corps Troops: doesn't exist

Actual LI Corps: 71st ID, 297th ID, 1 Bridge Engineer Battalion (Semi-Motorised)

Suggested DCCB LI Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 500 2nd Rate Infantry, 150 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

Suggested DCCB LI Corps Troops: 71st ID, 297th ID, 1 Bridge Engineer Battalion (Semi-Motorised)

=====
XI Corps

DCCB XI Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 1000 Infantry, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

DCCB XI Corps Troops: 1st ID, 2nd (Romanian) ID

Actual XI Corps: 295th ID, 2nd Romanian ID, 1 x Assault Howitzer Battalion, 1 x Engineer Battalion (Semi-Motorised)

Suggested DCCB XI Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 500 2nd Rate Infantry, 150 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

Suggested DCCB XI Corps Troops: 295th ID, 2nd Romanian ID, 1 x Assault Howitzer Battalion, 1 x Engineer Battalion (Semi-Motorised

=====
XIV Corps

DCCB XIV Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 1000 Infantry, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

DCCB XIV Corps Troops: 60th Motorised ID, 14th Pz Div, 1 x Engineer Battalion

Actual XIV Corps: doesn't exist ... units are part of III Panzer Corps

Suggested DCCB XIV Corps HQ: doesn't exist

Suggested DCCB XIV Corps Troops: doesn't exist

=====
XXXXIV Corps

DCCB XXXXIV Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 1000 Infantry, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

DCCB XXXXIV Corps Troops: 68th ID, 97th ID, 101st ID, 257th ID, 1 x Engineer Battalion

Actual XXXXIV Corps: 97th Light ID, 101st Light ID, 1 x Nebelwerfer Regiment (2 Batteries of 1st Battalion with 105mm Rockets, all other Batteries of 1st and 2nd Battalions with 150mm Rockets), 1 x SPAA Battalion, 1 x Artillery Regiment (1 Battalion 105mm Guns, 1 Mixed Battalion (1 Battery 105mm Guns, 2 Batteries 150mm Howizters), 1 Battalion 150mm Howitzers), 1 x Engineer Regiment (Mot), 1 x Luftwaffe AA Regiment (1 x SPAA (3 x 37mm Batteries) Battalion, 1 x Mixed Battalion (3 x 88mm Batteries, 2 x 20mm Batteries), 1 x Mixed Battery (3 x 88mm Batteries, 1 x 37mm Battery, 1 x 20mm Battery)

Suggested DCCB XXXXIV Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 500 2nd Rate Infantry, 150 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

Suggested DCCB XXXXIV Corps Troops: 97th Light ID, 101st Light ID, 1 x Nebelwerfer Regiment, 1 x SPAA Battalion (Halftrack?), 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot) (200 2nd Rate Infantry, 35 x 105mm Gun, 35 x 150mm Howitzer, 150 trucks), 1 x Luftwaffe AA Regiment (Mot) (40 x 88mm, 10 x 37mm, 30 x 20mm, 200 2nd Rate Infantry, 150 Trucks), 1 x Luftwaffe SPAA Battalion.

Phil


< Message edited by aspqrz -- 8/15/2012 3:28:57 AM >


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(in reply to aspqrz)
Post #: 55
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/15/2012 6:37:12 AM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3350
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

I have been thinking about the reinforcement issue as well.

I think the solution is to weaken the Soviet starting line up and possibly increase their PP costs, while adding the historical reinforcements to the game so that 4 new armies do appear at the appropriate moment.

I would focus things less on free-style build anything you want mode and more on 'here are the cards you get to play, issued in this sequence, but they are mainly free'.


I oppose anything that takes away player choice and flexibility. If you wanted to have that set of rules you should make it a variant that players can choose to play with if they want. Thats why in my mod i gave options to increase/decrease german/soviet replacements because every pair of players is different in their wants/skill levels.

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(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 56
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/15/2012 7:45:17 AM   
aspqrz

 

Posts: 718
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
I'd go more for a middle ground. Offer the "Historical" reorganisations as a Card to play, presumably free or at a lesser PP cost than for a "Free Hand" reorganisation card.

That preserves player choice in the face of a differing situation, but at some cost ... cost to be determined, perhaps, partly by how well or how badly the Soviets are doing?

YMMV

Phil

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(in reply to bwheatley)
Post #: 57
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/15/2012 7:55:26 AM   
aspqrz

 

Posts: 718
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
XIV Panzer Corps (28 June 1942), Direct attachment to AGS

DCCB XIV Pz Corps HQ: Doesn't exist

DCCB XIV Pz Corps Troops: Doesn't exist

Actual XIV Panzer Corps: 73rd ID, 125th ID, 13 Pz Div, SS Motorised Division Wiking, SS Motorised Division LSSAH, Slovak Fast Division, 1 Motorised Engineer Battalion

Suggested DCCB XIV Pz Corps HQ: 1000 Staff, 500 2nd Rate Infantry, 250 Trucks, 20 x 20mm Lt AA

Suggested DCCB XIV Pz Corps Troops: 73rd ID, 125th ID, 13 Pz Div, SS Motorised Division Wiking, SS Motorised Division LSSAH, Slovak Fast Division, 1 Motorised Engineer Battalion

Phil

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Author, Space Opera (FGU); RBB #1 (FASA); Road to Armageddon; Farm, Forge and Steam; Orbis Mundi; Displaced (PGD)
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(in reply to aspqrz)
Post #: 58
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/15/2012 8:18:52 AM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 878
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline


The Russian OOB for the SouthWestern Front on May 12, 1942:


SOUTHWESTERN FRONT
21st Army

...76th Rifle Div (4240 men, 24 guns)
...227th Rifle Div (4120 men, 48 guns)
...293rd Rifle Div (3610 Men, 24 guns)
...297th Rifle Div (3610 men, 24 guns)
...301st Rifle Div (3610 men, 36 guns)
...10th Tank Bde (750 men, 36 tanks) KV-1's
...21st Army Artillery (86 guns)

28th Army
...13th Gds Rifle Div (4399 men, 36 guns)
...38th Rifle Div (4240 men, 42 guns)
...162nd Rifle Div (3610 men, 24 guns)
...169th Rifle Div (4579 men, 42 guns)
...175th Rifle Div (3610 men, 24 guns)
...244th Rifle Div (3610 men, 24 guns)
...6th Gds Tank Bde (750 men, 44 tanks) 10 KV-1, 17 T-34, 19 T-60
...57th Tank Bde (750 men, 42 tanks) 10 KV-1, 15 T-34, 17 T-60
...84th Tank Bde (740 men, 43 tanks) 9 KV-1, 17 T-34, 17 T-60
...90th Tank Bde (740 men, 50 tanks) 10 KV-1, 20 T-34, 20 T-60
...3rd Gds Cav Corp
......5th Gds Cav Div (4100 men, 16 guns)
......6th Gds Cav Div (4100 men, 16 guns)
......32nd Cav Div (3700 men, 16 guns)
......34th Motorized Rifle Bde (2050 men, 24 guns)
......152nd Artillery-Mortar Rgt (24 guns)
...28th Army artillery (96 guns, 256 sappers)

38th Army
...81st Rifle Div (4579 men, 54 guns)
...124th Rifle Div (3700 men, 36 guns)
...199th Rifle Div (4228 men, 48 guns)
...226th Rifle Div (4579 men, 24 guns)
...300th Rifle Div (4468 men, 36 guns)
...304th Rifle Div (4240 men, 24guns)
...22nd Tank Corps
......13th Tank Bde (750 men, 42 tanks) 10 KV-1, 16 T-34, 16 T-60
......36th Tank Bde (745 men, 41 tanks) 9 KV-1, 16 T-34, 16 T-60
......133rd Tank Bde (755 men, 42 tanks) 10 KV-1, 16-T34, 16 T-60
...38th Army Artillery (170 guns)
...738th AT Rgt (48 guns)

6th Army
...41st Rifle Div (3949 men, 36 guns)
...47th Mtn Rifle Div (4240 men, 24 guns)
...103rd Rifle Div (4120 men, 24 guns)
...248th Rifle Div (4240 men, 24 guns)
...253rd Rifle Div (4519 men, 36 guns)
...266th Rifle Div (4579 men, 24 guns)
...337th Rifle Div (4468 men, 24 guns)
...411th Rifle Div (4240 men, 24 guns)
...5th Gds Tank Bde (765 men, 50 tanks) 10 KV-1, 20 T-34, 20 T-60
...37th Tank Bde (745 men, 50 tanks) 10 KV-1, 20 T-34, 20 T-60
...38th Tank Bde (755 men, 50 tanks) 10 KV-1, 20 T-34, 20 T-60
...48th Tank Bde (750 men, 50 tanks) 10 KV-1, 20 T-34, 20 T-60
...21st Tank Corp
......64th Tank Bde (750 men, 43 tanks) 10 KV-1, 16 T-34, 17 T-60
......198th Tank Bde (750 men, 41 tanks) 8 KV-1, 16 T-34, 17 T-60
......199th Tank Bde (755 men, 48 tanks), 10 KV-1, 20 T-34, 18 T-60
......21st Mot Rifle Bde (2050 Men, 24 guns)
...23rd Tank Corp
......6th Tank Bde (745 men, 68 tanks) 10 MkIII Valentine, 40 M3 Stuarts, 18 T-60
......130th Tank Bde (755 men, 69 tanks) 10 MkIII Valentine, 40 M3 Stuarts, 19 T-60
......131st Tank Bde (750 men, 68 tanks) 10 MkIII Valentine, 40 M3 Stuarts, 18 T-60
......23rd Mot Rifle Bde (2050 men, 24 guns)
...6th Army Artillery (290 guns)

Group Bobkin
...270th Rifle Div (3505 men, 24 guns)
...393rd Rifle Div (3610 men, 24 guns)
...6th Cavalry Corp
......26th Cavalry Div (2800 men, 16 guns)
......28th Cavalry Div (2800 men, 16 guns)
......49th Cavalry Div (2800 men, 16 guns)
......7th Tank Bde (750 men, 50 tanks) 10 KV-1, 20 T-34, 20 T60
...Group Bobkin Artillery (64 guns)

SW Front Reserves
...2nd Cavlary Corps
......38th Cavalry Div (2800 men, 12 guns)
......62nd Cavalry Div (2800 men, 12 guns)
......70th Cavalry Div (2800 men, 12 guns)
...277th Rifle Div (4240 men, 24 guns)
...343rd Rifle Div (4579 men, 36 guns)
....278th Rifle Div (4579 men, 54 guns)
...156th Tank Bde (750 men, 50 tanks) 10 KV-1, 20 T-34, 20 T-60
...168th Tank Bde (740 men, 50 tanks) 10 KV-1, 20 T-34, 20 T-60
...(3 Seperate Tank Bn's of 74 tanks) 20 T-60, 30 Matilda, 24 BT-7



_____________________________

What's the sense of sending $2 million missiles to hit a $10 tent that's empty?

— President George W. Bush, Oval Office meeting, 13 September 2001.

(in reply to bwheatley)
Post #: 59
RE: TO&E and OOB information - 8/16/2012 1:36:29 PM   
amatteucci

 

Posts: 320
Joined: 5/14/2000
From: ITALY
Status: online
LiquidSky, what are your sources for this OOB?
Glantz in his "To the gates of Stalingrad" and "Kharkov 1942" gives different numbers for tanks and guns.

(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 60
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