Pelton
Posts: 4374
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: janh
quote:
ORIGINAL: Michael T
While I still say the game favours the Sov's I don't agree the Blizzard is as overpowered as what people are saying. The problem with a few recent games where the Blizzard O has been overwhelming is that the Axis did not do near enough damage in the summer of 41. If you have a crap summer campaign then you will and should get totally smashed up, unless ofcourse you do a 'Pelton'. People should stop blaming the Blizzard for their woes and work on improving their summer 41 game. And then work on an effective Blizzard defence. Its very doable if you have the desire and fortitude to do so.
It's definitely a mixed bag, but I also note that we often keep comparing apples with oranges to form our expectations -- at least many of us here.
Overall you are right that if you compare how the Wehrmacht looks like in an average GC41 AAR come late spring to the state in the GC42 start, you'll be shocked how poor the Germans must have fared historically.
With that measure blizzard may look ok or even weak, but the result is also bought in a completely different way. If everyone would just hold tight across the majority of the front, and slug it out brute force under the present rules (instead of front line corrections, withdrawals and excessive winter quartering), things would also look much different. As someone said, even against AI this is tough, and in fact I can say if you cling tight to hexes at the risk of being overlapped (just as Germans did historically), it quickly gets really bad (at morale settings 110-118%).
Moreover, and more importantly, the prerequisites were very different for the more or partially less successful Russian blizzard offensive that we all have read about than for the ones that we know are almost always successful in this game. Even German major formations are pocketed and surrender, which "ought to be hard or unlikely" from comparison to historical performances.
This plays directly towards the issue with the German state come late spring, some 200 tanks ready, German transport pools depleted, and many of the infantry divisions being well below full ToE as well, so low that essentially 2 AG were unable to mount more than just local, short-lived tactical offensives.
The course for this to happen, and thus, for the blizzard offensive we know, was that the Germans struck much harder, more relentless, and were pushed much harder by the Soviets, than in a typical game. Whatever the reasons, hindsight, today's change in mentality towards losses, or of doctrines, or game mechanics, or simply that a player at home will not act as if he himself was at stake.
But the result was that by December, the Germans were bled rather white in terms of offensive power, and the tank strength at that point was already just a fraction of the ToE -- prior to the blizzard offensive! No Axis player will go about so harsh here, he often doesn't even need to as Moscow falls cheaper than that. We have hindsight, experiences the Germans hadn't had, and we now that war won't be won with that. Given that, we are likely never going to replicate the same stupid mistakes or short-sighted strategies that brought the Wehrmacht in such an extremely dangerous, overextended and weakened situation. The Red Army of course also had paid its toll, but it managed its reinforcements and forces better just prior to December so it was getting ready to exploit the weak Axis state.
In game, in contrast, where players are unlikely to replicate that, the shift of initiative is forced on by measures like the combat penalties. Those are pronounced enough that more or less independent of the previous successes or losses, the Soviet player "gets his blizzard offensive". Whether it would have manifested under such a reality, or not. It is a fixed event, forced to be almost always there and biased towards success. Even if the Axis player went about preparations cautiously, not over-extended supply lines and creating dangerous bulges and flanks, and preserving his strength to a >80% full Wehrmacht.
The issue is that under such circumstances, one should expect a blizzard offensive to be way less successful. If not even to not materialize on grand scale at all. And surely to be less successful at destroying major Axis formations. Most Axis units should probably be able to stand their ground, not mention surviving in supplied pockets...
Combat penalties yes, but how much?
To see a blizzard offensive just as powerful as the historical ones, similar prerequisites should be met. And that would mean giving the Axis incentive to essentially strain his forces to the breaking point, despite hindsight telling war wouldn't end at Moscow. Maybe make Moscow+LG+Rostov a "sudden death target set" only exactly until 12/41 (however, check the balance carefully..-). Sort of force on counter-intuitive mistakes on them like we aim to force some on the Soviets to make fighting forward during summer 41 against military/strategic considerations.
As the ruleset stands now, I wouldn't want to know how a blizzard offensive would turn out with historical force dispositions and strengths, and denying any large scale withdrawal. If I had to bet, I would go with my gut feeling and bet on "game over" for Axis by spring.
Thats 1/2 the story as history shows.
Come spring the germans had far far more tanks then in most games, they bounced back stronger and faster then in most if not all games.
So yes sure most games have more tanks then historical by March, but most games still end up with less tanks by June then historical.
Tanks really are not really that important anyways, they are glass tigers for both sides.
< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/19/2012 5:19:26 PM >
_____________________________
GHC
15 - 3 - 7
10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)
On leave until 9/13
|
Printable Version
RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 
) and come spring, summer they are able to launch offensives vs low moral Soviet units.
If anything, I remember the pre 1.5 patches allowed to build fortifications rather quickly. That didn't save Leningrad, for example, but it perhaps mattered in 1942, when the Red Army had time to dig (no spring madness, as the Germans were way too weak -as per history by the way). These über fortifications, along with higher Soviet morale made a German summer offensive during 1942 really complicated if not impossible. 
That should only work if they retreat two hexes per turn AND leaves gaps in their line, otherwise the Sov infantry can't attack and the Sov tank/cav units can't do enough damage on their own. I just don't see it...
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread