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RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB?

 
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RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 10/2/2012 1:25:33 AM   
HITMAN202


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Joined: 11/10/2011
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Pelton, how can you "pinch off units in 2-3 turns" ???

If you retreat two hexes a turn in a solid line with German units stacked 2-3 units, how can mere cavalry attacks create gaps to explot ????

Now if German divisions can only retreat one hex there might be a problem (and that can happen if an infantry unit only gets 8-9 MP and has to retreat across high MP terrain), but even still, with 3 units defending a hex their retreats will still prevent any opening (I call it the rubber band effect) and it would take a second round of attacks a hex deeper in the Axis network to create an opening to explot' But that would further require another Russian unit with enough MP's to advance one hex deeper into the defensive zone.

Can hasty attacks push a stack of 3 German divisions back in the blizzard ??? Maybe 1 in 10 but with a reasonable mobile reserve squat will happen. Now I've never been in that type of scenario (and I don't know the true power of Russian cavalry corps) but what you describe happening doesn't seem possible.

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Post #: 91
RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 10/2/2012 2:01:06 AM   
Pelton

 

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Joined: 4/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

Pelton, how can you "pinch off units in 2-3 turns" ???

If you retreat two hexes a turn in a solid line with German units stacked 2-3 units, how can mere cavalry attacks create gaps to explot ????

Now if German divisions can only retreat one hex there might be a problem (and that can happen if an infantry unit only gets 8-9 MP and has to retreat across high MP terrain), but even still, with 3 units defending a hex their retreats will still prevent any opening (I call it the rubber band effect) and it would take a second round of attacks a hex deeper in the Axis network to create an opening to explot' But that would further require another Russian unit with enough MP's to advance one hex deeper into the defensive zone.

Can hasty attacks push a stack of 3 German divisions back in the blizzard ??? Maybe 1 in 10 but with a reasonable mobile reserve squat will happen. Now I've never been in that type of scenario (and I don't know the true power of Russian cavalry corps) but what you describe happening doesn't seem possible.


The shortest frontage is 90 hexes and thats a striaght line. Germans only have 105 infantry divisions at this time give or take 2.

So the line will only be 1 division per hex. Even if you commit all units there is not nearly enough to stack 50% of the line with 2 per hex.

So the line you attack hexes 2-4-6-8-10 allong the line as an example. Say you win battles in hexes 4 and 6. Cav divisions or tank brigades have more then enough MPs to lock the unit the divisions in hex 5. Cav Corps and tank divisions have enough MP's to push 1 hex past the line in many cases.

Ok lets say it a best case for GHC and SHC occupys hexes 4 and 6. The German division will only be able to retreat 1 hex in many cases.

So what do you do Hitman202?

Leave the division behind because the rest of the line is going to retreat 2 hexes? or retreat 1 to keep the division in contact with line?

If you only retreat 1 hex allong the line the next turn stacks of SHC infantry divisions nail the front hitting every even # hex- tank brigades and cav division lock more units and if a Cav Corp or Tank divisions last turn moved 1 hex past the front the GHC finds it self desiding on turn 3 of the blizzard if it wants to only lose 3 to 4 divisions by retreating 1 hex.

Its a very easy thing to do as I have done it my first try vs a human. Guys like TDV and MT have it down to a science.

Bobo is very good at it also, I have to just keep running 2 hexes a turn and let the pinched off units die. I lost 9, which is ok. 15 is about the breaking point.

GHC loses more then 15 divisions they are a wet nuddle come 42 summer.

I hope that explained how it works, its really not that hard to do. My next game I plain on pulling the best tank divisions out of the front turn 1 and same for most of cav. My blizzard O will be much much better.

Thats why MT says he really doesnt care if he loses Leningrad/Moscow/Rostov as long as he has min loses, because he will completely trash GHC during blizzard.





< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/2/2012 2:03:08 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

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Post #: 92
RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 10/2/2012 2:06:36 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Pelton, I don't see anything in reserve in these screens, and no panzers or mobile units of any kind. There's no depth at all here.



I have about 50 recon planes at front as I have yet to do anything with planes yet. To much stuff to move around. I do recon but detect very little. I will spend some time late 42 messing around with planes.

I took your advice and only have 3 air units per HQ. I disbanded all the other ones. More rifles for the front.

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 93
RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 10/2/2012 2:14:28 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Schmart, more and more I'm thinking that it's a mistake to pull any of it back. At any rate further back than urban centers in the Soviet Union proper and within range of the front line. You do not need absolutely pristine morale to get things going in 42, especially if you don't leave the landsers to fend for themselves and get wrecked. You can have 75-80 morale units that stay on the field, and that's good enough against a Red Army clocking in around 40-45 on average.




Vs Bobo who ran a very good Blizzard O I had to commit everything to hold the line together.

Generally as GHC I pull 9 Infantry and 12 panzer divisions and set them withen rail distance of the front.

I have 1st PG stay in the line or just behind the front.

Generally I can tell by the first turn if the SHC knows his blizzard tactics or not. Most SHC players just snow plow forward tring to form as many guards as possible.

If the guy is a snow plower I can keep all 20 of my best units off line for the winter, if the guy is a pincher I will be forsed to commit everything by January 1st.

I still lost 9 divisions to Bobo, that allot. And almost all my units lost 13 or more moral.

Why form guards if they are going to be lost in 42? Go for the knockout during the blizzard.

If GHC moral is trashed 1942 will be easy.



_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

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Post #: 94
RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 10/2/2012 3:09:40 AM   
HITMAN202


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Repectfully I think your're wrong.

I agree if the Axis have 1 unit a hex S*** happens as you clearly outlined, but ..... Y

You got 105 infantry plus 4 more for the extra Mt unit regiments... 10 more Pz... and I think 5 good Rumanian mt units. So that's 125 or so.

You only form a continous D line (which retreats 2 hexes a turn) 15 hexes north of Moscow, 25 hexes south of Moscow and 25 hexes north of the Black sea A total of 65 hexes.

The 10 hexes south of the Finnish Line and the 15 hexes twix Moscow and the Black Sea D line you don't abandon, but put in a toilet paper thin screen. Supply there is problematic for the Soviets ( ie MP's). I think you can give ground there excessively, with little worry.

So you can have 2- 3 units a hex (in the Black Sea 25 hex D- line you can have 2 Ger and 1 Axis per hex, so that's another 25 units).. at total of 150 units.

And you still have another 25 Pz div-reg in hibernation.

And you only need to really stack high along the Soviet Cav thrusts , not the entire 65 hex D line (outlined above.)

Pelton, the rubberband effect of a stacked D-line makes the scenario (as you outlined above) impossible. I could be wrong. But I think not.

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Post #: 95
RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 10/2/2012 3:46:36 AM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 31
Russian losses this turn: 55,000 Total dead: 3,175,000
Russian OOB: 6,209,000
SHC net OOB change: 28,000
Russian units currently in a pocket: 0
German loses this turn: 70,000 Total Dead: 1.058,000

GHC OOB: 3,173,000
GHC net OOB change: 10,000
GHC Divisions lost: 8
Regiments lost: 1
German units currently in a pocket: 27


SHC:
Retreats: 22
Holds: 20

2 more German infantry divisions surrendered this turn. The area from Smolensk to just west of Kursk looks as it could crumble any turn now. I have 2 more good turn left to try and finish this area off.

Major Pelton returns from the front with the news.

West of Moscow :

Forces were unable to close any pockets, but 6 more holes were punched in the German lines. 2 units look to be lost and another 3 threatened. 1 high MP units is in a breakthrough point which could link up with the Orel pockets northern flank.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to HITMAN202)
Post #: 96
RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 10/2/2012 3:47:50 AM   
Pelton

 

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West of Orel:

A massive 25 unit German pocket has been formed. 2nd Shock army has entered the southern breakthrough area and can turn north or swing south. I want to seal this pocket of for good next turn so they will probably swing north. A total of 20 tank/cav units are in the breach with more infantry/tanks in route. Unless strong panzer forces arrive next turn a major victory is about to happen.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 97
RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 10/2/2012 3:48:24 AM   
Pelton

 

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Stalino Area:

2 MT divisions and at least 4 panzer divisions arrive and save this area from a large pocket. Several divisions are in trouble still and NE of D-town units are pushing south west vs zero resistance so far.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 98
RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 10/2/2012 3:56:40 AM   
Pelton

 

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More rumors float into HQ's the Huns have managed to reopen the pocket, but are they throwing good money after bad?

The Huns have desided to hold the lines and send in reserves, but massive SHC formations of infantry arrive at the front and there are now rummors of the pocket being resealed with MORE enemy formations pocketed.

1st Shock army rips open 2 new holes northwest of the first pocket both 20 miles wide.

More cav and tank formations enter the breakthrough point to the south with strong infntry forses just behind the cav/tank units

Stalin thinks that it cant possibly be true and orders Major Pelton back to the front and not to return with out better news. Hun heads will roll or yours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 99
RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 10/16/2012 3:39:19 AM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 32
Russian losses this turn: 71,000 Total dead: 3,246,000
Russian OOB: 6,243,000
SHC net OOB change: 34,000
Russian units currently in a pocket: 0
German loses this turn: 54,000 Total Dead: 1.112,000

GHC OOB: 3,173,000
GHC net OOB change: 0,000
GHC Divisions lost: 9
Regiments lost: 1
German units currently in a pocket: 31


SHC:
Retreats: 39
Holds: 17

Another unit surrenders and 3 more for sure to surrender next turn. The Orel pocket has grown to 31 units as German forces try and keep a total disaster from happening.

West of Moscow
Near VL a few GHC units are in trouble, but I probably will not beable to pinch them off. This should draw more reserves an help other areas that are in real danger.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 100
RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 10/16/2012 3:40:01 AM   
Pelton

 

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Orel Pocket

I had some bad luck here as the Croat Regiment retreated 3 times the right way then was able to hold 2 times vs a higher cv unit or the pocket would have been sealed for good. As it is strong infantry forces on north side punch 3 1 hex wide holes and 1 2 hex wide hole in the lines and link up with southern arm of breakthrough. Hun forces should be able to break open the pocket if reserves are close by. Next turn will be probably my last good chance to close pocket. Several Cav Corp have been formed.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 101
RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 10/16/2012 3:40:54 AM   
Pelton

 

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Stalino area.

SHC tank forces reach D-town. 4 German infantry divisions are in real danger of being cut off. Front line CV has dropped to 2 in all but a few German infantry divisions and 3 Cav Corp have been formed. If German forses don't cut and run a chance for another large pocket is in the making.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 102
RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 10/16/2012 9:13:24 AM   
janh

 

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Oh oh, Orel looks really dangerous for Axis. But in numerous other spots you have set up possibilities by overlapping flanks, such as Velikie Luki or Smolensk I notice. The Axis is in real trouble. If you manage to close the Orel pocket, the Axis won't be able to mount a strong summer offensive I bet. Then it is going to be more like WW1 trenches until your Red Army gets ready to be serious.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 103
RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 10/16/2012 9:25:00 AM   
Pelton

 

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I have been tring to close that now for most of this month, but GHC keeps sending in reenforsements.

Its hard to close a large pocket like that because SHC mech forses are low CV, so even weak panzer units can break the pocket. It will be February next turn, I beleive I have done a good enough job in Jan to keep driving west.

I am setting myself up for some major loses if I am unable to close the pockets in question. I am more then willing to take hvy loses if I can inflict a enough powerfull blow.

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to janh)
Post #: 104
RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 10/18/2012 3:40:18 AM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 33
Russian losses this turn: 65,000 Total dead: 3,351,000
Russian OOB: 6,238,000
SHC net OOB change: -5,000
Russian units currently in a pocket: 0
German loses this turn: 80,000 Total Dead: 1.192,000

GHC OOB: 3,130,000
GHC net OOB change: -43,000
GHC Divisions lost: 12
Regiments lost: 1
German units currently in a pocket: 29


SHC:
Retreats: 27
Holds: 47

3 more units surrender.

West of Moscow
There are 11 units in trouble only 3 look to be in deep crap.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/18/2012 3:41:27 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 105
RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 10/18/2012 3:41:51 AM   
Pelton

 

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Orel Pocket

The pocket has been broken open again as 5 panzer divisions arrive to try to save the day. The pocket gets tighter every turn, but not tight enough. Between Sumy and Gomel there are zero german units. A possible 2 group of german units are in danger now. Both sides are basicly all in at this point.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 106
Largest GHC pocket ever? - 10/18/2012 3:42:29 AM   
Pelton

 

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Stalino area.

SHC tank forces reach D-town. 3 German infantry divisions are in real danger of being cut off. Front line CV has dropped to 2 in all but a few German infantry divisions and 3 Cav Corp have been formed. A strong fort line has been out flanked, but unless SHC forses near the coast break through the germans might be in the clear.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/18/2012 3:43:39 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 107
RE: Largest GHC pocket ever? - 10/18/2012 3:57:26 AM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 34
Russian losses this turn: 58,000 Total dead: 3,409,000
Russian OOB: 6,254,000
SHC net OOB change: 16,000
Russian units currently in a pocket: 0

German loses this turn: 52,000 Total Dead: 1,242,000
GHC OOB: 3,182,000
GHC net OOB change: 52,000
GHC Divisions lost: 13
Regiments lost: 1
German units currently in a pocket: 37

SHC:
Retreats: 20
Holds: 19

1 more unit surrenders.

Moscow and Orel operations have now become one large offensive.
Once again more german units arrive to crack open the pocket, but the GHC makes the mistake of not with drawing on the north side of the pocket, which was a huge mistake. 1st Shock Army and elements from 3 others smash a 30 mile wide gapping hole in the german lines and units from all 4 armys drive south west another 30 miles stacked 2 to 3 high with mech/cav and infantry divisions. 2 tank units push through the gap another 40 miles in front of the main army AGAIN cutting off 37 GHC units. The pocket gets larger every turn but SHC has been unable to seal the pocket now for the last 5 turns. 3 units are in big trouble and will probably surrender next turn.

Major Pelton has not returned to Moscow for fear of losing his head.

I beleive I hold the record for largest pocket of SHC units, tring for the largest GHC units.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 108
RE: Largest GHC pocket ever? - 10/18/2012 4:00:04 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6041
Joined: 4/9/2006
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Who says size doesn't matter?




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 109
RE: Largest GHC pocket ever? - 10/18/2012 1:35:13 PM   
Klydon


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Wow, what a brawl. Problem is time is ticking for the SHC as far as the weather goes. The Moscow pocket is way too much to lose going into mud.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 110
RE: Largest GHC pocket ever? - 10/18/2012 2:10:23 PM   
Pelton

 

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Stalino area.

7 divisions are in trouble but strong german forses have been able to keep a slim line open to them as they try to get back to stronger german lines.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Klydon)
Post #: 111
RE: Largest GHC pocket ever? - 10/18/2012 2:30:05 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Wow, what a brawl. Problem is time is ticking for the SHC as far as the weather goes. The Moscow pocket is way too much to lose going into mud.



I was able to do enough damage to GHC forses so that February in many ways is the same as January(CV). The big plus for me is my strongest infantry divisions have finally gotten to the front and were able to attack for the first time last turn. Atleast 66% of my best infantry units have yet still to conduct and attack.

Next turn is really huge as GHC can't really afford to with draw from the Orel pocket area without signing the death warrent of a bunch of units, but at the same time throwing more units into the mix could cost them the war.

Allot will depend on how much the GHC is able to counter attack and if they have any reserves in the area, supplies must be low because a division surrendered last turn and was not cut off. Route, shatter surrender.

If German counter attacks don't go so hot then allot of fresh 5-7 CV/12-15MP infantry divisions will be able to really seal off allot of the pocket. I also have Cav Corps and tank divisions in the south and north pincers.

IF German counter attacks go good then I beleive my chances are slim at closing the huge pocket before snow hits.

I also at some point need to get ready for a possible German snow offensive. I plan on withdrawing 20 to 30 miles per turn as this will keep german infantry units out of the fight and prevent a german breakthrough and pocket in most cases.

I really was a total newbie when the blizzard O started, next time around Cav Corps and tank divisions will be effective in december and not late January.

Still not bad for my first Blizzard O.



< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/18/2012 2:32:41 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Klydon)
Post #: 112
RE: Largest GHC pocket ever? - 10/18/2012 3:22:46 PM   
gingerbread


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How many vehicles are permanently lost in supply operations per turn?

You could expand the list of items tracked (OOB, units iso, etc) to include vehicles in units + pool and vehicles in repair.
It's a much more important statistic to the Soviet side than it is to the Axis.

You're doing well so it's hard to argue with it, but there is a cost. A nimbler defence would produce a result that would have the same cost but a smaller pay off.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 113
RE: Largest GHC pocket ever? - 10/18/2012 4:39:09 PM   
Klydon


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To a point, both sides are going for a heavy knock out shot: The Germans around Moscow and the Russians in the middle. Should one side emerge as the clear winner in both battles, it is hard to imagine the other side will be in a position to continue, especially the Germans.

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 114
RE: Largest GHC pocket ever? - 10/18/2012 5:49:50 PM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 971
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I think the post #109 screen is from a different game.

(in reply to Klydon)
Post #: 115
RE: Largest GHC pocket ever? - 10/18/2012 5:54:24 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

How many vehicles are permanently lost in supply operations per turn?

You could expand the list of items tracked (OOB, units iso, etc) to include vehicles in units + pool and vehicles in repair.
It's a much more important statistic to the Soviet side than it is to the Axis.

You're doing well so it's hard to argue with it, but there is a cost. A nimbler defence would produce a result that would have the same cost but a smaller pay off.



Very good point about trucks. I have no idea how to track them really as I am a newbie so if you can tell me I would be more then happy to show you and I like to know myself.

I have 100% built my winter O on my past exp as GHC player. I have learnt a boat load about how to do this much much better next time. I had no idea Russian tank division could have 30 to 40 MP's turn after turn and being cut off most of the time.

Now I know why this blizzard sillyness is so so easy to do if you know how it works and now I do. Once you get even the smallest hole in the lines its off to the races. GHC in this game started retreating 2 hexes per turn and still I have been able to run them down and very close to a huge pocket.

If I knew what I know now on the first turn of the blizzard this pocket would have been closed several turns ago and things all over the front would have been smaller disasters.

This is why I simply ran vs MT, he knows what hes doing and pocketing 20+ German divisions is not really all that hard if your know what your doing. I had no idea and I am over 12 with many many more in trouble.

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 116
RE: Largest GHC pocket ever? - 10/18/2012 5:57:44 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6041
Joined: 4/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

I think the post #109 screen is from a different game.


Yes thats the largest human vs human pocket. Pelton(GHC) vs human (SHC).

I am tring for the largest pocket of german units during blizzard. Post 108


< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/18/2012 5:59:05 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to timmyab)
Post #: 117
RE: Largest GHC pocket ever? - 10/18/2012 6:02:25 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6395
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Pelton, if you insist on taking 20+ divisions off the table during the blizzard, yeah, it's going to be easy to poke holes in that. No reserves and a thin line of immobile infantry. I don't think the Axis can afford to do this.




_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 118
RE: Largest GHC pocket ever? - 10/18/2012 6:43:57 PM   
Klydon


Posts: 2158
Joined: 11/28/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

I think the post #109 screen is from a different game.


Yes thats the largest human vs human pocket. Pelton(GHC) vs human (SHC).

I am tring for the largest pocket of german units during blizzard. Post 108



Whoops, I missed this was from another game. German is in serious trouble here no matter what then I think. Pelton going for a knock out shot with that pocket of Germans.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 119
RE: Extra grain for the horse = HQB? - 10/18/2012 7:40:29 PM   
mevstedt

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 9/12/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon
I think this is more of a result of current German tactics of typically stripping every extra unit out of the line (especially panzer forces) and sending them to Poland to serve as the core for a 1942 offensive. What is happening to the Germans on the front is not the fault of the game in this case. As Flaviusx mentions, you need some local reserves.

Sorry but I have to contest you on this. The reason why german players pull the units off the line is because of the blizzard rule, thus it is the fault of the game. Had the blizzard rule not had such an insane impact on the game then the german players would not evacuate units thus what the GHC players are doing is a symptom of an underlying problem, it is not the source of the problem.

quote:

ORIGINAL: flaviusx
Before you break your arm patting yourself on the back, I suggest taking it up a notch and playing against a veteran Axis opponent who actually knows how to manage the blizzard.

Well, you still have to remember that Pelton isn't the most experienced soviet player out there either so he could have done alot worse with a bit of experience with the blizzard offensive.

Only times I ever try to hold the line is against the AI which is mediocre at best and even that is costly. A blizzard vs normal soviet AI with me holding the line unlike the normal withdrawal tactics and so on usually leads to about 700-800k losses, out of that about 500k is from attrition alone (average 45k+ attrition, 12 turns = 540k) and the 700-800k is without losing any units at all as the AI is kind of sucky. If I tried to do the same versus an average soviet player I would easily lose 1M-1.12M instead while historically the germans lost approximately 50k troops per month dec41-mar42.

Even the losses against the AI is in this circumstance magnitudes higher than what was historically inflicted. It just boggles my mind how the blizzard rule has never been revised when the axis withdrawal tactics clearly show that something is not right.






< Message edited by mevstedt -- 10/18/2012 7:43:11 PM >

(in reply to Klydon)
Post #: 120
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