RE: Fields of Red Blood

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RE: Fields of Red Blood

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RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/7/2012 3:24:47 AM

mevstedt

Posts: 51
Joined: 9/12/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sjohnson

Everyone seems to like to run all around the map in 41 and then games seem to end and no one knows how to really defend so I think then this is why things break down

Kind of off topic but just wanted to comment on this as well. As a player who pretty much play only for fun I prefer to play a game that goes past -41 and into late war as it is more interesting to me where as alot of people seem to either decide the game is over by end of the -41 campaign based on how well it went for their side. It's a shame really as the game doesn't really open itself for the players to be the deciding factor until you get past spring 42 (when the artificial boosts to either side has been left).

A good strategy game should be like a game of chess, extremely well balanced to the point where it is the players decisions (good and bad) that ultimately lead to who is considered to be victorious, ie it should be a battle of the minds rather than who can exploits the ruleset the most during the period when the opposing side can't do anything about it.

Anyway, off topic as I said.

I threw out a few ideas of my own to MT and so did someone else so we'll see how this pans out. While I always root for the underdog (Pelton at the current time) I'm just hoping the defense won't put a real dent in the gameplan as has been discussed before since if it gives any credit to the "run away to poland" strategy of choice then I will no longer really see any point in playing the game as it will just emphasize how everyone is just running the complete opposite direction to what the real war was like :P.

(in reply to sjohnson)

Post #: 121

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/7/2012 10:17:25 AM

Pelton

Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mevstedt

quote:

ORIGINAL: sjohnson

Everyone seems to like to run all around the map in 41 and then games seem to end and no one knows how to really defend so I think then this is why things break down

Kind of off topic but just wanted to comment on this as well. As a player who pretty much play only for fun I prefer to play a game that goes past -41 and into late war as it is more interesting to me where as alot of people seem to either decide the game is over by end of the -41 campaign based on how well it went for their side. It's a shame really as the game doesn't really open itself for the players to be the deciding factor until you get past spring 42 (when the artificial boosts to either side has been left).

A good strategy game should be like a game of chess, extremely well balanced to the point where it is the players decisions (good and bad) that ultimately lead to who is considered to be victorious, ie it should be a battle of the minds rather than who can exploits the ruleset the most during the period when the opposing side can't do anything about it.

Anyway, off topic as I said.

I threw out a few ideas of my own to MT and so did someone else so we'll see how this pans out. While I always root for the underdog (Pelton at the current time) I'm just hoping the defense won't put a real dent in the gameplan as has been discussed before since if it gives any credit to the "run away to poland" strategy of choice then I will no longer really see any point in playing the game as it will just emphasize how everyone is just running the complete opposite direction to what the real war was like :P.

The run away is a great point, something thats hurting the game itself.

I have stated this 100 times.

1. SHC runs east 1941
2. GHC runs west 1941/1942 Blizzard
3. SHC runs east 1942 Spring Summer.

There is 100% no real reason to fight, even MT has posted when hes close to losing Moscow, he doesn't care if he loses it or not.

The Pelton vs MT game is showing this weak spot.

There needs to be a VP system put in plase.

I have played out more then this game.

Because MT ran from Tula south as everyone does now, holding Moscow and Leningrad is easy if you are a good SHC player. Which I am not.

I am not the guy who started the game running it was MT.

WitW, will see the same tactics usless there is a VP system or the manpower centers have to mean something. Right now MT recieves little more men then if I stayed and fought, but hes wasting them because of a tactic hes used in the past on weak low morale 1942 german armys.

I agree with you MT should not be exploiting the rule set by running from Tula south using a weak checkboard to over load the north.

Would Stalin have let MT just give up Tula south with out a fight?
Would Hitler have let Pelton just give up 200 miles of Russia?

But we are not Stalin and Hitler.

I did not start this run away game MT did.

That needs to be crystal clear. If hes whinning which he is, its like the kettle calling the pot black.

Its ok for him to run when and where he wants, but not fair, a waste of his time ect ect when someone esle does it.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/7/2012 10:24:11 AM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to mevstedt)

Post #: 122

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/7/2012 10:25:00 AM

Apollo11

Posts: 21611
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

WitW, will see the same tactics usless there is a VP system or the manpower centers have to mean something. Right now MT recieves little more men then if I stayed and fought, but hes wasting them because of a tactic hes used in the past on weak low morale 1942 german armys.

We were, of course

, aware of this from early ALPHA/BETA WitE but there was no simple / easy fix possible for it in WitE!

The WitP will have revamped model regarding this (Joel will inform the public in due time as he always does)!

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Pelton)

Post #: 123

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/7/2012 10:35:22 AM

Apollo11

Posts: 21611
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

1. SHC runs east 1941
2. GHC runs west 1941/1942 Blizzard
3. SHC runs east 1942 Spring Summer.

There is 100% no real reason to fight <SNIP>

IMHO the journey is what matters and not, ultimately, the end result because we the Grognards, again IMHO, should obey the history!

Some players have different reasoning.

And that is also very much OK - there is no forcing of any kind!

Thus, winning at all cost (by using ahistoric tactics / strategies and possible game engine loopholes) is, of course, allowed!

Since all possible "methods" (already sighted and those still hidden) simply can't be fixed by game rules alone there is elegant solution:

There exist "House Rules" that both sides should agree upon at the start and obey during the play - they can have great fun and enjoyment this way without unnecessary frustration!

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Pelton)

Post #: 124

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/7/2012 11:19:00 AM

timmyab

Posts: 616
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11
The WitP will have revamped model regarding this (Joel will inform the public in due time as he always does)!

Do you mean WITW?If so that's very good news.
A more realistic logistics system would also help in this respect.If a large proportion of supplies and reinforcements have to be transported through cities then these transport hubs will become the important military objectives that they should be.

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 125

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/7/2012 11:44:50 AM

Apollo11

Posts: 21611
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11
The WitP will have revamped model regarding this (Joel will inform the public in due time as he always does)!

Do you mean WITW?If so that's very good news.
A more realistic logistics system would also help in this respect.If a large proportion of supplies and reinforcements have to be transported through cities then these transport hubs will become the important military objectives that they should be.

Upcoming WitW... typo...

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to timmyab)

Post #: 126

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/7/2012 4:40:48 PM

Pelton

Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

Turn 60 GHC armaments: 30,000

Russian Men OOB: 8,560,000
Net of: -120,000
Russian Gun OOB:103,820
Net of: - 1309

GHC OOB: 3,600,000 Ready Rifle Squads: 46,400 Net change: + 600
Net of: -10,000
GHC Gun OOB: 38,465
Net of: - 145

��Won��Lost��Ratio
SHC��4��18��18%
GHC��0��0��100%

Permanent loss from game ratio is 3.6:1

GHC Totals KIA: 622,251 POW: 11591

German - killed 24,529; pow 423 All disabled will return eventually. Total permanent losses = 24,952

SHC Totals KIA: 1,019,675 POW: 1,090,369 Disabled: 1,837,910

Soviet - killed 51,713; pow 1,156; change in disabled 55,744; actual disabled casualties caused in the turn ~73,565. 1/2 of disabled will return eventually, others will be permanent loss. Total permanent removed from game = 89,651

GHC tank and gun numbers have been static for the last 8 turns other then a few panzer/infantry divisions units going back to Germany.
Rifle squads ready for combat has been rising about 500 per turn for the last 8 turns.

Big drop in Manpower for SHC. I don�t see any disbanded or destroyed units for SHC. Also SHC gun totals have been dropping by 800� 1300 per turn starting at 800 and increasing each turn to now - 1309.

Air War.

Ratio: 25.6 : 1

GHC loses: 14
SHC loses: 358

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/8/2012 12:52:53 PM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 127

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/7/2012 4:55:24 PM

Ketza

Posts: 2016
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline

I am finding this to be an enjoyable game to watch. Part of the enjoyment is that Pelton has gone all in with a strategy that on its face seemed unlikely to be a success but has stuck to his guns.

MT is making a huge mistake with these massive assaults but I am sure he will realize it soon enough.

(in reply to Pelton)

Post #: 128

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/7/2012 5:12:20 PM

Pelton

Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

I am finding this to be an enjoyable game to watch. Part of the enjoyment is that Pelton has gone all in with a strategy that on its face seemed unlikely to be a success but has stuck to his guns.

MT is making a huge mistake with these massive assaults but I am sure he will realize it soon enough.

Thank you very much for getting me from a total newbie on defence to and good defender.

Not sure if this will hold up in this game as time/distance are not on my side, but these new tactics will greatly help in my other 3 games.

Hopeffully he will keep wasting boat loads of arm pts ect ect on usless units and set back the upgrading of Steam Roller.

This has worked in the past for MT, because he would only lose 2.5 million men in 41 summer, have a crushing blizzard O and then start pounding down GHC in summer of 42.

I figured I would control tempo and use he strengths agianst him.

I am not so sure he will stop his assaults. I am hoping he does not thats what I am banking on.

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Ketza)

Post #: 129

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/7/2012 6:19:46 PM

Flaviusx

Posts: 5746
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

I am finding this to be an enjoyable game to watch. Part of the enjoyment is that Pelton has gone all in with a strategy that on its face seemed unlikely to be a success but has stuck to his guns.

MT is making a huge mistake with these massive assaults but I am sure he will realize it soon enough.

The firepower support just isn't there. He's putting in around 2k guns per assault. Not anywhere near good enough.

With later iterations of rifle corps backed up by arty divisions these same attacks would have 5k or more guns thrown into battle (including vastly larger amounts of high rate of fire mortars.) And with that amount of suppressing fire holding the line becomes much tougher.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Ketza)

Post #: 130

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/7/2012 7:31:27 PM

Ketza

Posts: 2016
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline

In my recent game as Soviet I found artillery brigades to be a nice bridge until the divisions arrived. Trained them up in the Finland war with the Tank corps then switched them to the south with a dozen or so guards rifle corps and started the steamroller in winter of 42.

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 131

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/7/2012 8:12:18 PM

Pelton

Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

As the game stands now if you cant get to Berlin in late 44 your a newbie in most cases.

Its so easy now to keep losses in 41 under 2.7 million and hold almost everything. I did it my first SHC game. I really suck at logistics ect so a basic newbie after 41/42 blizzard. Most GHC players are out of the game in spring 42 if all things are equal they have no chance of even getting to 45.

Germans take to many loses when retreating. You only need 10 retreats and the GHC OOB and rifle squads tank very fast.

Games on a knifes edge, you have to do far better then historical as GHC in 41/42 to get a minor win. If you do as per historical your done by mid to late 44 if you bother wasting 200 hrs. Why so many poeple have stopped playing.

Draws just aren't possible based on AAR's

Should be allot more draws- games would be a joy to play then for everyone.

Why so very few play out, we all know the ending by turn 50 tops in 99% of the cases

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/7/2012 8:17:12 PM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Ketza)

Post #: 132

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/7/2012 9:16:58 PM

Pelton

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Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

FLaviusx and MT have never lost as SHC. Katza whats your record as SHC?

Its not that winning every time is a bad thing, but in 44 is.

I think if they simply reduced German retreat losses it would make for allot more draws. Increasing GHC manpower output or decreasing SHC is a stop gap for a handful of turns at best.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/7/2012 9:18:46 PM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Pelton)

Post #: 133

15.82:1 Ratio (NO MT) - 12/7/2012 9:34:50 PM

Pelton

Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

Check out the first battle on list 12007 to 759

15.82 : 1 ratio

Whos spanking whos butt?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/7/2012 9:36:19 PM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Pelton)

Post #: 134

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/7/2012 9:46:02 PM

Ketza

Posts: 2016
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline

I do not really keep track of wins and losses as so many games stop early. I will say that as the Soviets I have never doubted any outcomes that it would be a Soviet victory. As Axis whenever I have a game where I seem to get a break the game ends early. Its the nature of the beast I suppose.

(in reply to Pelton)

Post #: 135

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/7/2012 11:24:41 PM

mevstedt

Posts: 51
Joined: 9/12/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

I do not really keep track of wins and losses as so many games stop early. I will say that as the Soviets I have never doubted any outcomes that it would be a Soviet victory. As Axis whenever I have a game where I seem to get a break the game ends early. Its the nature of the beast I suppose.

Well, unfortunately the game is too much "make or break" based around the -41 campaign, this goes for both sides. Maybe we should all just scrap it and start with the -42 GC

.

The problem is that a historical result as the germans (in 41) is pretty much bound to end by summer 44 at the latest and that is without suffering heavy losses from Stalingrad and a number of encirclements that occured historically. This is one of the problems for most axis players, they know it will be a loss if they have failed to incur enough penalty on the SHC and industry in -41 while it is the other way around as the soviets.

Klydon has said it and I consider it as well, the game should have been based around historical outcome when evaluating victory conditions. Soviet capture of Berlin in say march to june or july in -45 should be considered a draw. That way the germans still have a chance, if you can hold out longer you win. If you lose before that then it will be minor or major soviet victory with say a 6 month difference or something.

(in reply to Ketza)

Post #: 136

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/8/2012 12:24:41 AM

Ketza

Posts: 2016
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline

Victory conditions based on yearly conditions would be ideal. Sort of like this:

1st phase 1941 - xxxx conditions Axis or Soviet wins one point

2nd Phase 1942 - xxxx conditions Axis or Soviet wins one point

Until 1945

(in reply to mevstedt)

Post #: 137

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/8/2012 1:38:08 AM

Pelton

Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

The huge problem I am finding is German retreat loses are way to high.

If you hold you can get 5 to 7:1 over-all.

Lol even attacking after 1941 you generally lose more then the SHC in many cases making local counter attacks pointless.

tweaking arm output, manpower output, artition rates ect ect will never ever solve the normal 1944 games.

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Ketza)

Post #: 138

3 wins 22 loses - 12/8/2012 12:51:54 PM

Pelton

Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

Turn 61 GHC armaments: 1,000

Russian Men OOB: 8,529,000
Net of: -31,000
Russian Gun OOB:103,850
Net of: +30

GHC OOB: 3,624,000 Ready Rifle Squads: 46,450 Net change: + 50
Net of: +24,000
GHC Gun OOB: 38,765
Net of: +300

��Won��Lost��Ratio
SHC��3��22��12%
GHC��0��0��100%

Permanent loss from game ratio is 3.3:1

GHC Totals KIA: 622,251 POW: 11591

German - killed 22,015; pow 500 All disabled will return eventually. Total permanent losses = 22,515

SHC Totals KIA: 1,019,675 POW: 1,090,369 Disabled: 1,837,910

Soviet - killed 35,218; pow 1,000; change in disabled 55,856; actual disabled casualties caused in the turn ~74,235. 1/2 of disabled will return eventually, others will be permanent loss. Total permanent removed from game = 73,335

Air War.

Ratio: 6 : 1

GHC loses: 78
SHC loses: 471

This turn was a good one. GHC OOB increased by 24,000, another 300 guns were added to OOB and ready rifle squads increased again. I did not recieve any new units this turn.
SHC OOB dropped by another 31,000 and only added 30 guns.

So far for the summer OOB for SHC is dropping and GHC increases. No major changes basicly static.

SHC basicly attacked 4 hexes taking 3.

1 hex he attacked 5 times and it held.
2 hexes he attacked 6 times and he took
1 hex had to be attacked 8 times before it fell. 3 assaults be Rifle and Tank Corps.
The 8th assaault was 2.0 to 1 odds hehehehe

Over all SHC CV has been dropping and men/guns/tanks is down from about 120,000 man assaults to 80,000 man assaults. Also the number of SU commited to battles by SHC has dropped from 20ish to under 10 almost every single battle. I am guessing many are just plain unready, because of equipment and morale losses
At start of summer it was only taking 3 attacks per hex to push out German units now its taking a min of 6 assaults and in 2 of the 3 cases it was at just over 2 to 1 odds.

SHC attacks are ebbing in strength and how many hexes can be attacked per turn.
GHC men and guns is growing, fort belts are thickening.

Verdun on Eastern front for sure. Part of drop in armaments is I upped art/aa toe to 80 from 50 to increase guns.

It cost SHC just over 65,000 in armements just to replace lost men and guns. Sapper losses have been very high 1200 squads last turn alone. Not seeing hardly any sapper squads now in assaults

Because of llight fighting now I am able to pull more units from front lines to rest and refix. Form Minsk to the Sea in the south there was 1 hex attacked and GHC won, last turn 2 and GHC won both. I am building a shorter winter line in the south.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/8/2012 1:13:36 PM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Pelton)

Post #: 139

RE: 3 wins 22 loses - 12/8/2012 2:36:03 PM

Disgruntled Veteran

Posts: 286
Joined: 2/19/2012
Status: online

I think we should rename Pelton...Herr Goebbels.

(in reply to Pelton)

Post #: 140

RE: 3 wins 22 loses - 12/8/2012 2:40:24 PM

Klydon

Posts: 1873
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline

Looks like he is punching himself out. Michael is smart enough to change tactics at some point, but is he a bit too stubborn about it at the moment? His moral has to be absolutely trashed and I am guessing there won't be very fast advances if he ever gets going again. The other thing I am sort of surprised about is he hasn't gone to the one place Pelton can't do a lot about and that is to go knock the Finns out while training up some units, etc. It won't be decisive, but it is something to do and will free up some Russian forces for employment elsewhere along with perhaps some guards units generation.

(in reply to Pelton)

Post #: 141

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/8/2012 3:52:29 PM

AFV

Posts: 371
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline

15.82 ratio is a bit misleading. Kinda reminds me of German war propaganda lol. I look at that particular ratio as the sum of all four battles, or 25502/7458 = 3.4 : 1 ratio. AFVs were essentially 1:1.
The next battle down the list was 33037/11550 = 2.9 : 1. I'm not gonna bother going thru all of them, I will just assume the numbers are all similar to these first two.

I'm not sure what the pundits say is a good ratio for the Soviets at this point (of course, this is the first game I have seen where the Soviets are on the offensive at this point)- but I think more important is how things will trend. If the you (Axis) can get this ratio to gradually trend up, then you are in good shape. If this ratio gradually trends down, that is very bad news.

(in reply to Pelton)

Post #: 142

RE: 3 wins 22 loses - 12/8/2012 4:22:38 PM

Flaviusx

Posts: 5746
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Looks like he is punching himself out. Michael is smart enough to change tactics at some point, but is he a bit too stubborn about it at the moment? His moral has to be absolutely trashed and I am guessing there won't be very fast advances if he ever gets going again. The other thing I am sort of surprised about is he hasn't gone to the one place Pelton can't do a lot about and that is to go knock the Finns out while training up some units, etc. It won't be decisive, but it is something to do and will free up some Russian forces for employment elsewhere along with perhaps some guards units generation.

This is exactly what he should be doing. Knock out the Finns and use them as a training ground. This yields nothing but positive results with no real downside. This move, while not decisive, is a strong incremental step in the right direction bridging Red Army 1.5 with Red Army 2.0.

But he's riveted by his attrition strategy. In his own way he has become as much a prisoner of a numbers psychology as Pelton tends to be.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Klydon)

Post #: 143

RE: Fields of Red Blood - 12/8/2012 4:48:04 PM

Jeffrey H.

Posts: 2502
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Victory conditions based on yearly conditions would be ideal. Sort of like this:

1st phase 1941 - xxxx conditions Axis or Soviet wins one point

2nd Phase 1942 - xxxx conditions Axis or Soviet wins one point

Until 1945

Well, in my mind it should be based on strategic locations, and land controlled. It would be a tough balancing act of couse but cities are stragegic and valuable, and simply number of hexes controlled should also be a modififier. That sort of victory scheme with a rolling point total each turn with automatic victory set points for each side might put a lot more suspense in the games instead of the patterns that they now follow.

_____________________________

"Games lubricate the body and the mind" Ben Franklin.

(in reply to Ketza)

Post #: 144

RE: 3 wins 22 loses - 12/8/2012 4:56:32 PM

Pelton

Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Looks like he is punching himself out. Michael is smart enough to change tactics at some point, but is he a bit too stubborn about it at the moment? His moral has to be absolutely trashed and I am guessing there won't be very fast advances if he ever gets going again. The other thing I am sort of surprised about is he hasn't gone to the one place Pelton can't do a lot about and that is to go knock the Finns out while training up some units, etc. It won't be decisive, but it is something to do and will free up some Russian forces for employment elsewhere along with perhaps some guards units generation.

This is exactly what he should be doing. Knock out the Finns and use them as a training ground. This yields nothing but positive results with no real downside. This move, while not decisive, is a strong incremental step in the right direction bridging Red Army 1.5 with Red Army 2.0.

But he's riveted by his attrition strategy. In his own way he has become as much a prisoner of a numbers psychology as Pelton tends to be.

This is what hes always done in the past so why would he change?

AFV the over all ratio is 3.3 to 1 at this turn. Its part of the report I post the last 3 turns. Its been as high as 4.1 to 1 and as low as 2.7 to 1 over all average is about 3.5 to 1.

The killer for SHC is when I get Holds. Its generally 6 to 1 as with the one hex I held.

I beleive thats why MT kept attacking the one that took 8 tries. More pride then anything.

MT has told me more then once that this will be over in 1943, that boasting has stopped the last week.

MT's publicly all in on attacking it would be a HUGE piece of humble pie for him to eat if he stopped or I had a turn where he lost 12+ and did not have a single win.

MT has never even had a minor set back in 30+ games so for him to take advice from Flaviusx, Katza and Klydon about stopping and hitting Finland is below him.

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 145

RE: 3 wins 22 loses - 12/8/2012 4:59:08 PM

Pelton

Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

I still think retreat loses are way to high for GHC and if lowered we would have allot more draws and allot more over all injoyment for everyone

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Pelton)

Post #: 146

RE: 3 wins 22 loses - 12/8/2012 5:08:44 PM

Pelton

Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

I think we should rename Pelton...Herr Goebbels.

I am simply reporting whats happening.

I have never boasted I will win or that I would get a draw.

I have taken advantage of everything possible to try and get a draw, will it work? I really have no idea.

GHC always gets turned into ants after a while.

I am not the one that was ruuning around with a tag boasting.

I report the in game turn by turn results.

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Disgruntled Veteran)

Post #: 147

RE: 3 wins 22 loses - 12/8/2012 8:31:17 PM

Wuffer

Posts: 129
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

I think we should rename ****

Calm down, G'men.

:-)

Pelton's only chance are mistakes by his opponent. IMHO, he's quite successful in this aspect; as both sides are full in, a little bit of propaganda as part of the metagame should be allowed - at least it keeps things entertaining.

edit:
I'm thankful for both the game and the detailed aar's.
It could only improve further developments.

< Message edited by Wuffer -- 12/8/2012 8:36:33 PM >

(in reply to Disgruntled Veteran)

Post #: 148

RE: 3 wins 22 loses - 12/8/2012 9:00:28 PM

Pelton

Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wuffer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

I think we should rename ****

Calm down, G'men.

:-)

Pelton's only chance are mistakes by his opponent. IMHO, he's quite successful in this aspect; as both sides are full in, a little bit of propaganda as part of the metagame should be allowed - at least it keeps things entertaining.

edit:
I'm thankful for both the game and the detailed aar's.
It could only improve further developments.

The game for sure is not what MT thought he was getting into.

I have had allot of games have an impact on ruleset changes(patches). Most times the exploit is pointed out by others who are simply afraid to say anything because of poeple who support one side or the other. I was the same way for a while. I lov the haters its what makes posting so fun for me. 1 vs 50 bring it on baby.

After playing Flaviusx and seeing he really did give a crap about both sides I have been tring to keep the game itself in the forfront.

I like most poeple would like on balance to have historical draws as the general out come all things being equal.

This will only be a good thing long run for 2by3 when this all get tied together 5 yrs from now in War In Europe.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/8/2012 9:01:07 PM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Wuffer)

Post #: 149

RE: 3 wins 22 loses - 12/8/2012 9:15:04 PM

Disgruntled Veteran

Posts: 286
Joined: 2/19/2012
Status: online

Jeez Pelton,

Its not hating. The way you write your viewpoint is propaganda. I made a joke dude.

(in reply to Pelton)

Post #: 150