Heavy rains accross entire map - June 28

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Heavy rains accross entire map - June 28 - really???

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue >> Heavy rains accross entire map - June 28 - really???

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Heavy rains accross entire map - June 28 - really??? - 8/7/2012 10:06:49 AM

abulbulian

Posts: 699
Joined: 3/31/2005
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WTF, is it really going to be heavy rain across entire map on t2 of campaign Case Blau? So everywhere on the entire east front is rain, on June 28nd?

ok found rule - it has 25% rain each turn in summer? Who thought up this silly weather nugget? Are we just making stuff up now?

Sigh - guess going to have to decide about restarting with weather off (THANK GOD and option) or waiting for weather to be fixed in a patch, because that's basically game over for Germans if they get many unrealistic consecutive weather of rain.

Not to try and sound like some mathematician, but Vic you do realize there's nothing statically that says it could not rain every single turn from t2 onward?? If you don't understand that...you're in gambler's paradise. However, there's 100% knowledge that it would not rain every single day between June 42 and April 43 when it comes to weather. Ok, maybe 99.999999999999999999999999999%. Either way, why couldn't there be some more logic and common sense behind the weather model?

AND this is wrong (which is really disappointing):

17. Weather and Seasons

quote:

'Aircraft never suffer penalties from any weather or seasonal state
because the 2-day turns allow enough space to find clear periods to perform combat
missions'

but then what is this.. a contradiction?

quote:

17.3. HEAVY PRECIPITATION
There is a 25% chance every round a major rain or snow event; the effect of this on
regular summer landscape is that it will turn the landscape to mud. Rain causes air units
to suffer an AP loss and decreased combat efficiency.

My aircraft are now all -50% offense and defense because of the rain. So what gives with this, another bug or is display not accurate with functionality (nm that's still a bug in my book)?

Here's a simple suggestion, why not just have a checkbox for historical weather? Almost every single war game I've played from board to computer or bad to good has this option. I think they all have it for a reason?

Sorry if I sounds pissed-off (maybe in hind-sight not good time to post), but I just spend good part of a day working on a T1 for a pbem game and now I have to either redo T1 with weather off or wait for a patch with a sensible historical weather checkbox. Not to mention the time my poor partner wasted on his turn 1 too.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by abulbulian -- 8/7/2012 10:53:05 AM >

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Post #: 1

RE: Heavy rains accross entire map - June 28 - really??? - 8/7/2012 11:34:07 AM

Vic

Posts: 3440
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: online

Hi there,

No problem sounding pissed off. You pay for a product you can complain. Actually I always thank everybody who gives feedback that will lead to improvements in upcoming patches.

So thanks for reporting back to me!

The manual is mistaken. It has been noted already. Its going in the errata with the gold version of 1.01.

As for the rain. Yeah its an abstraction. I understand your objection, however it is not as bad as you think in that you'll always have 100% on clear turn after a rain/snow turn.

best,
Vic

< Message edited by Vic -- 8/7/2012 11:35:17 AM >

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(in reply to abulbulian)

Post #: 2

RE: Heavy rains accross entire map - June 28 - really??? - 8/7/2012 11:52:48 AM

Keunert

Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline

in my current aar on turn 8 there was so far one turn with bad weather. i guess historical weather would mean to create different weather zones and an entirely different weather model.

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 3

RE: Heavy rains accross entire map - June 28 - really??? - 8/7/2012 12:59:50 PM

olivier34

Posts: 998
Joined: 5/10/2010
From: montpellier
Status: offline

I have been very lucky with the weather. having rain in the very first turn for the axis is a real problem and can geopardize the goal to pocket soviet units. maybe clear weather for the first 4 turns and after that let the rain fall randomly could be something to consider.
you can still attack on a mud turn but the lutwaffe is good for a rest...

(in reply to Keunert)

Post #: 4

RE: Heavy rains accross entire map - June 28 - really??? - 8/7/2012 1:13:36 PM

James Ward

Posts: 990
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: olivier34

I have been very lucky with the weather. having rain in the very first turn for the axis is a real problem and can geopardize the goal to pocket soviet units. maybe clear weather for the first 4 turns and after that let the rain fall randomly could be something to consider.
you can still attack on a mud turn but the lutwaffe is good for a rest...

25% does seem a little high though. That's almost once a week on average.

(in reply to olivier34)

Post #: 5

RE: Heavy rains accross entire map - June 28 - really??? - 8/7/2012 1:35:03 PM

Keunert

Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline

early on in the campaign the soviet player faces all kinds of penalties. if mud strikes your units are almost immobile too. except for some rail evacuations i think the mud doesn't favour the soviets that much. the biggest advantage to the soviets may well be a round without too much combat.

(in reply to James Ward)

Post #: 6

RE: Heavy rains accross entire map - June 28 - really??? - 8/7/2012 3:02:21 PM

abulbulian

Posts: 699
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Hi there,

No problem sounding pissed off. You pay for a product you can complain. Actually I always thank everybody who gives feedback that will lead to improvements in upcoming patches.

So thanks for reporting back to me!

The manual is mistaken. It has been noted already. Its going in the errata with the gold version of 1.01.

As for the rain. Yeah its an abstraction. I understand your objection, however it is not as bad as you think in that you'll always have 100% on clear turn after a rain/snow turn.

best,
Vic

Thanks Vic. Sorry for the burst. It's just that I'm having trouble understanding the generalized 25% rain rule. It's seems that could have been tweaked in such a way to discontinue a rain turn after say 2 consecutive rain turns (or rnd[]). I've made scenarios with ATG, so I know the scripting can handle this logic quite easily. What am I missing?

Also, could we please have a historical weather option? I'll add it to the thread about 'What you'd like to see in next patch'

I can't logically continue to play my PBEM know there's the chance I could have rain turns for the remainder of the game. If if unlikely it's still possible. People that know statistics, understand that like flipping a coin (although 50%) it's a Bernoulli process. The simple way to describe it is as independent events. Thus, what happened the previous turn has no impact on the next. So it's possible to have heavy rains/mud until it gets cold. Sorry, but that to me is not how I want my weather to be modeled in historical game about east front campaign in WW2.

All could be solved for me with a historical weather option, or just a more in-depth weather system if non-historical ... by plausible.

< Message edited by abulbulian -- 8/7/2012 3:03:49 PM >

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Post #: 7

RE: Heavy rains accross entire map - June 28 - really??? - 8/7/2012 3:16:43 PM

abulbulian

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Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline

For those that don't have a problem with 25% chance heavy rain/mud for two turns, I don't think people realize the difference between heavy rain and rain. Also the most critical part of this was the fact the this is summer and in southern Russia it can get very hot. Thus, the concept of 2 full days with air and movement penalties when the rain (mostly regular rain in summer) will tend to dry out very quickly. Sure, in the spring and Fall these were definitely very muddy type seasons with the large amounts of rainfall.

< Message edited by abulbulian -- 8/7/2012 3:18:17 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Heavy rains accross entire map - June 28 - really??? - 8/7/2012 3:17:30 PM

bwheatley

Posts: 3256
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline

Vic might have scripted it at a 25% chance per turn (on a turn where it hadn't had foul weather the previous turn) but it's turning out to be less then 25% likely in the turns i've played. in my 8 turns in case blue as germany vs AI i've had no mud. In my 13 turns of the trappenjagd scen as russia vs AI i've had mud 2 times.

And i tend to so far (my opinion might change with play) not see too big a problem. Unlike WITE there is no hammer of winter and super soviet's looming over you. And the decreased mobility will bone the soviets just as much as well as it's only 2 days instead of a week. I kinda prefer randomized weather. Yea 25% chance (1 out of 4 turns or 2 out of 8 days) might be overboard but you remember with AT scripting it never seems to hit as frequently as you wanted. I was a fan of the effect you and I put into modding the WaW weather system with zones that could have different weather. I will concede though that there are probably a good amount of players who would enjoy a "historic" weather flag on the scenarios. While i always though historic weather takes a bit of the fun away because you know what's coming. With random weather you get the roll of the dice to see what's happening and your best plans could be ruined by weather. LOL It gets the blood flowing.

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RE: Heavy rains accross entire map - June 28 - really??? - 8/7/2012 3:20:17 PM

abulbulian

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Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline

Ok, sorry I didn't read the rain/snow part the first time in Vic's post. So that is much better, however, it could still be mud 50% of the summer. Which is not great but better than what I thought before.

My apology about it being independent event, the logic does consider the previous turn. Thanks!!!

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Post #: 10