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1941 scenario as an Axis

 
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1941 scenario as an Axis - 8/6/2012 12:39:44 PM   
zasit

 

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Did anyone win this scenario playing as Germans ? I've tried few times and i couldn't.

So there are some interesting/stupid things in this games

- why we can't attack Russian railroads ?
- the most stupid fact is that a 1500 men NKVD division (battalion !!!) can hold up with one turn on one hex before attack of whole German division (15.000 men) or even if they are so good in defense this German Division can easily move between the defense lines (hex is 10 km? so there is 150 per 100 metes but the German have 15000 !!!! )
- shattering units - i've done maybe 100-200 hasty attacks and in most cased I've had odds something about 300:1 or more and mayby in 10-15 cases i've had shatter effect

:]
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RE: 1941 scenario as an Axis - 8/6/2012 11:07:52 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Yes there are some of us who have won the scenario playing as Germans, my win was against the computer (with the Soviets at 110 for everything), but there are several AARs I recall that have the Axis winning in late 42 or early 43.

(in reply to zasit)
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RE: 1941 scenario as an Axis - 8/7/2012 8:03:12 AM   
zasit

 

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Can you show some of these AAR - i've tried but never find the winning scenario

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RE: 1941 scenario as an Axis - 8/16/2012 7:56:39 AM   
zasit

 

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Can somebody show me AAR - when someone win 41 campaign playing as Germans versus Soviets ?

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RE: 1941 scenario as an Axis - 8/16/2012 8:02:23 AM   
Blubel

 

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If you mean winning against a human player, while playing to the end, these sort of AARs are fairly seldom. An example would be this one: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2668120&mpage=1&key=

Many games do however end with the Soviet player resigning - which is exactly what the Germans had in mind, when they started the war.

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RE: 1941 scenario as an Axis - 8/16/2012 12:31:46 PM   
zasit

 

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No i mean playing Germans versus Soviet AI, i have not found any AAR with THAT !!!! I don't mean of course playing in beta versions - they are too easy.


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RE: 1941 scenario as an Axis - 8/16/2012 12:42:02 PM   
zasit

 

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Maybe someone had mayor victory ? over 290 Victory points ?

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RE: 1941 scenario as an Axis - 8/16/2012 3:49:44 PM   
Walloc

 

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Do u mean vs the AI in GC?
Yes i've done it on turn 56 or so on normal and start to mid of 70ies on challaging. Latest time was around christmas tho. I dont see any thing that would change the balance hugely since that in terms of making it harder. Been lots of ppl saying they have achieve 290 VP vs the AI too. As Blubel says dont think any really have made many AARs about that.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 8/16/2012 4:33:39 PM >

(in reply to zasit)
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RE: 1941 scenario as an Axis - 8/16/2012 8:13:01 PM   
zasit

 

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yeah 290 Victory points - it is very hard and difficult, i've tried 3-4 times this campaign and i've never won this (few times i've decided to abandon the games after russian winter counteroffensive). Even if i destroyed all russians tank divisions - and other 200 rifle divisions.

So i really wanted to see the AAR how to do this, i think that the some people have done this on beta versions - latest version have better soviet AI.

(in reply to Walloc)
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RE: 1941 scenario as an Axis - 8/16/2012 9:18:24 PM   
Walloc

 

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If u want some pointers. I dunno what difficulty level u play at. Ill give the hints as if u were playing on normal.
AI cheats in a number of ways and not in others. If u know this and is so inclined so can target those "weakneses" instead of trying to attack its strengths. Most of these hints wont follow history, but as this is how to beat the AI, take the advice in that light.

Manpower. AI cheats on AP so it can make unlimited units and so on. It how ever do follow the in game manpower.
So if u can attack in ways by making pockets and over time take "territory"/ its manpower producing centers. The AI will have a manpower shortage. It will on the other hand never have a shortage of units. So it migth over time end up with tons of units but with low manpower in. those are ofc easier to push around by then. This might be time consuming, but not hard. Just a question once that happens on keeping on moving forward.

Pockets. Learn to make pockets. When u done that, learn to make pockets that hold. When u done that u go back and learn how to make pockets in most cost effecient way. When u learned that then u learn to make pockets that hold in the most cost effecient way. Then u start over until some one can wake u up in ur sleep and u can recite how to make pockets that hold. The correct/timely use of HQBU is a key in this.

Blizzard. Way to deal with that vs AI if u are so inclined. Is to keep all of ur mot and pz units safe. Eitehr by having them in winter quaters in germany or more so in cities/urban areas/ lvl 4 towns around Russia. Where they can avoid the blizzard losses and moral effects. Look at and learn this from the manual for specifics. Also have as many german inf units in cities as possible. Basicly all of AGN inf should be able to hide in Leningrad and surroundings. While Finns take up the frontline duties.
U should be able to do, but not at same extend for AGC and AGS inf.
Give ground. In the games i played i taken Moscow and Lenningrad and a bit beyound that in the summer/snow periode of 1941. Use ur minor and german mountain units along with as few inf units as needed to constandly and slowly fall back before the AI. This means they will be subject to blizzard effects but even here u can use the fact that towns potentially can give blizzard cover. By making sure ur retreat goes from town to towns when ever possible. U will lose terrain this way but keep ur army "relativly" intact. The territory lost u can take back in no time come 42.

RR, know/learn where u the fastest can make rail lines. This might require pondering over the map for a bit. Make sure u always have ur unit repairing RR raillines in 41. Push away any resistance, pocket em so they cant move on the RR u plan to repair. The more u in supply and the more turns u will be within 20 MP allowing for HQBU to happen the more pockets u wil be able to make.

Come 42 keep attacking manpower, once the army starts to crumbled u just go for VP locations.



Hints with knowing AI behavior/crossing the very gamey so dont read if u dont wana know.

AI has a thing where it evac if enemy units come with in 10 hexes. U can use that to factory raid. When nearing the bigger production center, Leningrad, Kharkov, Moscow, Rostov, Tula if u do it in a way where u move from outside those 10 hexes into blocking evac in one turn AI cant evac.
Not that this really matters but oh well.


Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 8/16/2012 9:57:12 PM >

(in reply to zasit)
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RE: 1941 scenario as an Axis - 8/17/2012 8:36:44 AM   
zasit

 

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As i saw in the manpower table most of the cities with high manpower are very very far.... only Moscow and Leningrad represents high manpower rank, and as you sad the AI is cheating with the number of divisions, brigades and other attachments. To the winter i've took over 2 mln of prisoners (maybe less) but i saw that was not enough.

:/

(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 11
RE: 1941 scenario as an Axis - 8/17/2012 11:36:51 AM   
Walloc

 

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Ok. As suggested i would keep at training to make pockets and learn how HQBUs work. I gave around 4.5m losses in 41 maybe 3-3,5m of them prisoners. On normal. Idea is to make the pockets hold. Half pockets wont work against the AI. Its good enough to walk out. They need to be surrounded. Either by hexes u have converted and then the buffer zone needs to be of a certain width. Or by having actual units surrounding the enemy units in the pockets. This is after the latest round of major AI changes. U say 2m POWs. Actually its not necesarrily all that bad. If u in vs a human are able to do overall over 3m losses before the blizzard sets on. U not bad off as german. Just a questiong of surviving the Blizzard which is much easier vs the AI and then keep going on. If ur army is relative intacts in 42 is a breeze pushing/surrounding lots of counters initially tho vs the AI. Moscow and Leningrad should really be on ur 41 schedule. In the game i talk about on normal Moscow was surrounded on turn 10 or 11 and was reduced the following turn. Every AGC Pz corps was on HQBU on the turn that happened. Leningrad fell a bit later. The is the earliest i've had moscow fall btw. If u want me to compare to earlier version IMHO things have only gotten easier for the german side.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 8/17/2012 9:32:03 PM >

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Post #: 12
RE: 1941 scenario as an Axis - 8/17/2012 1:20:11 PM   
Walloc

 

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From: Denmark
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"Found" a pic from turn 24, the turn before blizzard.

Kind regards,

Rasmus




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Walloc -- 8/17/2012 4:48:48 PM >

(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 13
RE: 1941 scenario as an Axis - 8/20/2012 2:59:27 PM   
rrbill

 

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Hmmm... taking Leningrad & Moscow in '41 would be nice. I'll have to look at the forums and make some guesses as to tactics and strategies employed. Any hints walloc? (Muling & chaining? whatever that maight be.)

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Post #: 14
RE: 1941 scenario as an Axis - 8/20/2012 3:35:24 PM   
Walloc

 

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I've never chained or muled. Taking Moscow that early was simply a matter of waiting until RR had caught up so i could HQBU every corps in 2nd and 3rd Pz group in the same turn. Obviously u need AP saved up. Starts from around 15 hexes from Moscow. Inf first up. Pz starts turn just behind the frontline hexes. Use inf to break open the holes for the pz making sure u push units out of the way. Attacking in right order is some times very helpfull in determain where units retreat too. Used one pz corps to the clear the rest of way after inf did its job, in front of each pincer. The remaining pz corps then did the actual exploitation and surrounding.

Im very ruthless in clearing the way for RR repair alrdy from turn 1. When looking but note this is mostly AARs from pbems. It seems but i could be wrong in that ppl priovertize pockets over the most effecient RR possible. Not clearing the Railroads. Inparticular so that in turn 2 and from that on never have to use MP to enter enemy hex instead of only own owned. This can slow the easily RR repair down by 1 or 2 turns. I never doubled FDB bdes either. All a question of planing ahead. To me the key is to make both the pockets and create the free way for FDB bdes to repair as fast as possible.

Along with learning the art of pockets making.

Those are the best hints i can give.

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 8/20/2012 3:43:24 PM >

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RE: 1941 scenario as an Axis - 8/20/2012 7:49:30 PM   
rrbill

 

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Well, smart play and clear priorities are better than exploits. Thanks, will see what I've learned. Now starting GC41 vs. AI

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