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Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art?

 
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Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/6/2012 6:22:55 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6392
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline
I am making some small modifications to Andy Macs Iron Man scenario for personal use. I have sprinkled in a few changes and the biggest that I am going to attempt is adding in a completely new class of battle cruiser.

It is going to be a 3 ship class of battle cruiser for the USN. They will combine some ideas from the Lexington class, with the Alaska class and some ideas of my own. They will be true battle cruisers and not large cruisers like the Alaska's.

I used Springsharp to help my design.

Here are some specifications to help your art. If there are multiple entires I will submit them to the design bureau and a decision will be made

The ships are going to be a fairly modern design but all three will make their appearance in the first 9 months of the war.
The design will be from 1936 with the hulls being laid down between 1937-1938 and being commissioned in 1940-early 1941.
So the look needs to be somewhat between the Colorado and North Carolina class. I like the long sleek lines of the North Carolina. The North Dakota class looks too short and both ends look like they were shortened.

Weight 44,000 tons
Three funnels
One tower, slightly swept back
8 x 14 inch guns, four double turrets, two fore and two aft evenly distributed
16 x 5 inch guns, 8 double ring turrets, clustered towards center
3 x 4 1.1 inch AA guns two forward and 1 aft
10 x 1 0.5 inch AA machine gun
Provision for eight seaplanes, two catapults


I will be hugely indebted to whomever can help. If you really want to go the extra mile, you can create a upgraded version too with a slightly changed tower and radar antenna added. You can also mix up the paint schemes. I plan on having three upgrades during the war.

Massive thanks to whomever takes on the challenge
Post #: 1
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/6/2012 6:33:46 AM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I am making some small modifications to Andy Macs Iron Man scenario for personal use. I have sprinkled in a few changes and the biggest that I am going to attempt is adding in a completely new class of battle cruiser.

It is going to be a 3 ship class of battle cruiser for the USN. They will combine some ideas from the Lexington class, with the Alaska class and some ideas of my own. They will be true battle cruisers and not large cruisers like the Alaska's.

I used Springsharp to help my design.

Here are some specifications to help your art. If there are multiple entires I will submit them to the design bureau and a decision will be made

The ships are going to be a fairly modern design but all three will make their appearance in the first 9 months of the war.
The design will be from 1936 with the hulls being laid down between 1937-1938 and being commissioned in 1940-early 1941.
So the look needs to be somewhat between the Colorado and North Carolina class. I like the long sleek lines of the North Carolina. The North Dakota class looks too short and both ends look like they were shortened.

Weight 44,000 tons
Three funnels
One tower, slightly swept back
8 x 14 inch guns, four double turrets, two fore and two aft evenly distributed
16 x 5 inch guns, 8 double ring turrets, clustered towards center
3 x 4 1.1 inch AA guns two forward and 1 aft
10 x 1 0.5 inch AA machine gun
Provision for eight seaplanes, two catapults


I will be hugely indebted to whomever can help. If you really want to go the extra mile, you can create a upgraded version too with a slightly changed tower and radar antenna added. You can also mix up the paint schemes. I plan on having three upgrades during the war.

Massive thanks to whomever takes on the challenge


What is the length of the ship so I know how many pixels to make my submission to the design bureau.

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 8/6/2012 6:34:12 AM >


_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 2
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/6/2012 6:40:57 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6392
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I am making some small modifications to Andy Macs Iron Man scenario for personal use. I have sprinkled in a few changes and the biggest that I am going to attempt is adding in a completely new class of battle cruiser.

It is going to be a 3 ship class of battle cruiser for the USN. They will combine some ideas from the Lexington class, with the Alaska class and some ideas of my own. They will be true battle cruisers and not large cruisers like the Alaska's.

I used Springsharp to help my design.

Here are some specifications to help your art. If there are multiple entires I will submit them to the design bureau and a decision will be made

The ships are going to be a fairly modern design but all three will make their appearance in the first 9 months of the war.
The design will be from 1936 with the hulls being laid down between 1937-1938 and being commissioned in 1940-early 1941.
So the look needs to be somewhat between the Colorado and North Carolina class. I like the long sleek lines of the North Carolina. The North Dakota class looks too short and both ends look like they were shortened.

Weight 44,000 tons
Three funnels
One tower, slightly swept back
8 x 14 inch guns, four double turrets, two fore and two aft evenly distributed
16 x 5 inch guns, 8 double ring turrets, clustered towards center
3 x 4 1.1 inch AA guns two forward and 1 aft
10 x 1 0.5 inch AA machine gun
Provision for eight seaplanes, two catapults


I will be hugely indebted to whomever can help. If you really want to go the extra mile, you can create a upgraded version too with a slightly changed tower and radar antenna added. You can also mix up the paint schemes. I plan on having three upgrades during the war.

Massive thanks to whomever takes on the challenge


What is the length of the ship so I know how many pixels to make my submission to the design bureau.


Length: 775 feet
Beam: 102 feet
Draft: 31.5 feet

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 3
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/6/2012 10:06:40 AM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
EDIT: Out of copyright concern I have deleted the image and am revoking permission to use this ship in any mod. My apologies to the copyright holders if I have infringed upon them.

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 8/6/2012 9:59:15 PM >


_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 4
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/6/2012 10:07:27 AM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
EDIT: Previews taken down.

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 8/6/2012 10:00:05 PM >


_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 5
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/6/2012 6:42:59 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
I know that John, Kelley and Brian have waived their Copyright claims with respect to Matrix. But it is customary to cite just where one gets their derivatives from. SuluSea has an affirmative pass from the Copyright holders, as do others. Copy-paste is fun, but outside the confines of the WiTPAE game offered by Matrix Corp, the Copyright holders could get annoyed. Not likely to happen, but one might just like to note where they get their images from.

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 6
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/6/2012 10:19:29 PM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6392
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline
I am confused? What just happened?

How can you copyright a made up ship?


Can someone actually draw me a ship from scratch?

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 7
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/6/2012 10:31:32 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I am confused? What just happened?

How can you copyright a made up ship?


Can someone actually draw me a ship from scratch?


I could and have done it before but it would take me about an hour or more to do a single ship from scratch.

The ships I have been making all involve cutting up and pasting amalgamations of existing art in AE. I'm not sure who to credit because the art is from one of the three WITP AE artists and I'm not sure which one. Also all my plane sides have all been images googled from the internet, reduced to scale, and polished up. I've taken them down as well because I'm not sure who the different artists are for the plane sides. Clearly US87891 is concerned for the welfare of the original artists and I don't want to overstep copyright laws. Plus he seems to take pleasure in belitting me at every opportunity he gets and I'm tired of feeling "little".

_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 8
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/6/2012 10:46:17 PM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6392
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline
I understand

I don't want any copyright laws or other artists work's infringed upon either. And I do appreciate the time it takes to do this art. I only wish I had the skill.
You also have your own mod you are working on.

If you or anyone else wants to take on the challenge of creating my ship I would be hugely indebted. I have nothing I can offer for the effort beyond just saying 'thanks'

Hopefully someone will take up the challenge. I have the ship created in the editor and the rest of my changes are done and tested. All I lack is this art to be able to start my game.

And also, I am not creating a mod here. This will never see release beyond my own hard drive.

Thanks again your for effort. And any future efforts.

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 9
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/6/2012 11:14:04 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 1/2/2011
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That’s overreacting, and a bit childish. The guys made it perfectly clear many times that they waived their rights for game purposes. But credit should be given where credit is due.

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 10
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/6/2012 11:29:05 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

That’s overreacting, and a bit childish. The guys made it perfectly clear many times that they waived their rights for game purposes. But credit should be given where credit is due.



Guess it's to be expected considering my last name.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3032086

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3037978

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2594041

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 8/6/2012 11:40:19 PM >


_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 11
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/7/2012 4:40:04 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6392
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline
I hate to beg, but I am wanting to get my scenario started. I have the ship in the editor, I just need the piece of art and then I can get underway.

If you need any further specifications to help your creation I will gladly give them. Thanks again.

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 12
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/7/2012 8:08:22 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6392
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline
This small amount of editing (the ship and three upgrades) took me a few hours. I have an all new respect for the game makers now.

Now it just needs a kindly soul to provide her with some art.


I added three into the game.

USS America
USS Montana
USS Maine






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Fallschirmjager -- 8/7/2012 8:11:02 AM >

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 13
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/7/2012 11:27:48 AM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I hate to beg, but I am wanting to get my scenario started. I have the ship in the editor, I just need the piece of art and then I can get underway.

If you need any further specifications to help your creation I will gladly give them. Thanks again.


Hi Fallschirmjager. I will create another contender for your mod - from scratch. Give me a couple hours though.

_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 14
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/7/2012 1:53:01 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
OK. Here's my new entry for the proposal. Built from the keel up from scratch. Not a shred of this ship is borrowed from anyone elses work. Anyone and everyone has my permission to do what they wish with this ship, including alter it for their own purposes.

EDIT: The ship background is also of my original creation and can be found at the end of my art thread if anyone wants to use the backgrounds for their own work.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 8/7/2012 1:55:35 PM >


_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 15
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/7/2012 1:54:10 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
Here's the preview. Of course the JPG image is a bit blurry. The BMP image will be sharper.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 16
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/7/2012 3:00:29 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
In case you don't like the seaplane in the middle of the ship or if you want a more radical upgrade path, here's a second version.

EDIT: Also with the guns closer to midship you might be able to get away with triple mounts.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 8/7/2012 3:03:46 PM >


_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 17
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/7/2012 3:01:08 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
And the preview.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 18
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/7/2012 6:07:35 PM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6392
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline
Thank you, thank you, thank you


The design board has selected the second entry with the catapults at the stern of the ship. I will get these into the game, correct my errors and then add air groups. Then I will take some more pictures.

I only wish I had a way of paying you back for your effort. All I can say is thank you, yet again :)

< Message edited by Fallschirmjager -- 8/7/2012 6:35:07 PM >

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 19
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/7/2012 6:22:47 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

Thank you, thank you, thank you


The design board has selected the second entry with the catapults at the stern of the ship. I will get these into the game, correct my errors and then add air groups. Then I will take some more pictures.

I only wish I had a pay of paying you back for your effort. All I can say is thank you, yet again :)


No payment is necessary. I work for kudos.

_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 20
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/8/2012 7:25:37 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6392
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline
Here is the final evolution when she is fully upgraded. I have all three ships in the game now with float planes now attached.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 21
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/8/2012 7:37:00 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6392
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline
I am going to press my luck for one more ship. I am going to add a one off unique ship that is another BC. This one will be an experiment on what would happen if you had a lot of guns large than 8 inch but smaller than 12 inch.

It will use the same hull as the America class but will mount 15 x 10" guns in 5 triple turrets.

It will mount 12 x 5" guns in 6 double turrets.

The big change will come in early 1944 when all 5 turrets are stripped off and it becomes a very very large AA cruiser.
It will mount 24 x 5" guns in 12 double turrets and a mass of smaller guns.

It might be a challenge to create. Any chance I could get an entry submission?

Last request, I promise.

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 22
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/8/2012 3:40:51 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2275
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From: Jacksonville Fl
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Your last set of 40mm I think is aimed in the wrong direction. I have a feeling you were looking for rear facing instead of right facing.

_____________________________


(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 23
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/8/2012 10:19:46 PM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6392
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

Your last set of 40mm I think is aimed in the wrong direction. I have a feeling you were looking for rear facing instead of right facing.



Very nice catch. Thank you!

(in reply to oldman45)
Post #: 24
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/9/2012 1:15:18 AM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
Hi Fallschirmjager,

I'm a little out of the creating mood right now (though I may always change my mood in the near future) but if you or anyone else out there would like to take my BC posted above a tweak it a little with some copy and paste to make a different ship out of it you or they are more than welcome to.

_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 25
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/9/2012 3:29:05 AM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1922
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

Hi Fallschirmjager,

I'm a little out of the creating mood right now (though I may always change my mood in the near future) but if you or anyone else out there would like to take my BC posted above a tweak it a little with some copy and paste to make a different ship out of it you or they are more than welcome to.


I'm curious as to what program you use? I have never been able to figure out how to apply cut and paste with the Paint program. Would like to try to be able to do a few (OK more than a few) merchants, especially some of the smaller coasters.

Buck

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 26
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/9/2012 3:58:56 AM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

Hi Fallschirmjager,

I'm a little out of the creating mood right now (though I may always change my mood in the near future) but if you or anyone else out there would like to take my BC posted above a tweak it a little with some copy and paste to make a different ship out of it you or they are more than welcome to.


I'm curious as to what program you use? I have never been able to figure out how to apply cut and paste with the Paint program. Would like to try to be able to do a few (OK more than a few) merchants, especially some of the smaller coasters.

Buck


Often all I use is MS Paint, unless I want to really achieve some difficult effects in which case I also use Paint Shop Pro X2. But MS Paint is all you really need in most cases. Depending upon which version of windows you have there should be an option to either set the transparent or non-opaque color. Once you click on "Transparent Selection" (or the "Opaque" option in earlier Paint versions), then you simply chose what color you DON'T want paste (the background color or Color #2 in MS Paint) and cut and paste anything else.

For instance suppose I have a ship on a white background and wish to chop it up and create a different ship out of it. What I can do is set Color #2 in MS Paint to white and then click on the "Transparent Selection" option under "Select". Then I select a piece of the ship, and move it somewhere and the white background will not follow. Only the non-white parts of the picture will move. With that simple technique you can move around all sort of ship pieces and make all new arrangements. To cut and paste select a portion of your ship with the selection tool and then chose "copy" or "cut" from the right click menu and then right click somewhere and choose "Paste". It will paste in the upper left corner of your screen so simply move it to where you want it by left clicking and dragging.

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 8/9/2012 4:00:51 AM >


_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to Buck Beach)
Post #: 27
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 8/9/2012 2:52:21 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1922
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

Hi Fallschirmjager,

I'm a little out of the creating mood right now (though I may always change my mood in the near future) but if you or anyone else out there would like to take my BC posted above a tweak it a little with some copy and paste to make a different ship out of it you or they are more than welcome to.


I'm curious as to what program you use? I have never been able to figure out how to apply cut and paste with the Paint program. Would like to try to be able to do a few (OK more than a few) merchants, especially some of the smaller coasters.

Buck


Often all I use is MS Paint, unless I want to really achieve some difficult effects in which case I also use Paint Shop Pro X2. But MS Paint is all you really need in most cases. Depending upon which version of windows you have there should be an option to either set the transparent or non-opaque color. Once you click on "Transparent Selection" (or the "Opaque" option in earlier Paint versions), then you simply chose what color you DON'T want paste (the background color or Color #2 in MS Paint) and cut and paste anything else.

For instance suppose I have a ship on a white background and wish to chop it up and create a different ship out of it. What I can do is set Color #2 in MS Paint to white and then click on the "Transparent Selection" option under "Select". Then I select a piece of the ship, and move it somewhere and the white background will not follow. Only the non-white parts of the picture will move. With that simple technique you can move around all sort of ship pieces and make all new arrangements. To cut and paste select a portion of your ship with the selection tool and then chose "copy" or "cut" from the right click menu and then right click somewhere and choose "Paste". It will paste in the upper left corner of your screen so simply move it to where you want it by left clicking and dragging.


Thank you, going to mess with it and give it a try.

Buck

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 28
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 4/26/2013 11:50:44 AM   
SargeantTex


Posts: 420
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
That sucks big time that you had to delete those I was wondering where they went! I was looking for your New Zealand to put in a GC campaign I was modding oh well might get one of one of the WPO art files!!

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 29
RE: Would anyone like to make me a piece of shipside art? - 4/26/2013 3:01:50 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
I may put some art back up one of these days. I guess I was feeling a little miffed at the time I took down all the stuff I had in my thread and overreacted a bit.

_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to SargeantTex)
Post #: 30
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