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Extra hex info? - 7/31/2012 8:29:14 AM   
Grotius


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What exactly does the "Extra Hex Info" toggle button show and hide? When I press it in the Kharkov scenario, I see some little red 4's on the Russian side of the map. What do they mean?

Also, what do the A-ENT and MAX-ENT fields in the terrain detail right-click window mean? And why are there four numbers for CROSS-RIVER in the same screen? What does each number refer to -- a different season? Likewise, why are there two numbers for road movement (e.g., 25/30)?

I'm loving this game! It brings to mind the grand OCS monster boardgame "Case Blue," which I have set up on my gaming table as we speak. In fact, the intro scenario for the boardgame is almost identical to the Kharkov scenario in this computer game. (One interesting difference: the boardgame models the town of Zmiyev, south of Kharkov, rather prominently, whereas Zmiyev doesn't appear at all in this computer game. Not a problem at all -- you can't represent every village in Europe on the map.)

Anyway, thanks in advance for any answers to my questions. :)

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RE: Extra hex info? - 7/31/2012 12:59:49 PM   
Blind Sniper


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quote:

I see some little red 4's on the Russian side of the map. What do they mean?


The turn required to convert the rail width, until then you are not able to use the railnetwork.

quote:

Also, what do the A-ENT and MAX-ENT fields in the terrain detail right-click window mean?


A-ENT: auto-entrench
MAX-ENT: max-entrench

quote:

And why are there four numbers for CROSS-RIVER in the same screen? What does each number refer to -- a different season


The number change for the river size, i.e. Infantry 40/30/10/20 respectively Volga, major, minor and medium river.

quote:

Likewise, why are there two numbers for road movement (e.g., 25/30)?


Not sure here, perhaps 30 is for mud season.

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RE: Extra hex info? - 7/31/2012 5:44:37 PM   
Grotius


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Many thanks, Blind Sniper. Very helpful. Anyone know what the two numbers for road movement mean? Normal/mud seems like a good guess, but I'd like to be sure.

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RE: Extra hex info? - 7/31/2012 11:45:48 PM   
balto

 

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The information in the Hex Info on the Attack impact of CROSS-RIV appears to have several problems.

[A] Infantry CROSS-RIV as 50/40/20/30. A few problems with that. (1) The manual does not have a column for Infantry to show the River Impact on combat. (2) The order of the COMBAT numbers appear to be out of sync with the MOVE order. The MOVE order is VOLGA, Major, Minor, Medium. In attack if you assume the minor river has the least impact of the 4 rivers, the order would be 20/30/50/40 to be consistent. In other words, the order is exactly the opposite of what it should be. If that is mistake, that would be a benefit to the Soviets because the game would consider minor rivers to be the VOLGA for attack purposes.

[B] The armor numbers do not match the manual at all. The manual has Volga 20, Major 35, Minor 65, Medium 50. (1) No matter what order you place these in, none of them match the three types of armor in the Hex info. (2) The hex info has different numbers for light, medium, and heavy tanks. The manual just says armor.

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RE: Extra hex info? - 8/1/2012 1:44:21 PM   
Blind Sniper


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quote:

(1) The manual does not have a column for Infantry to show the River Impact on combat.


There is the table on page 49, River penalty for Hitpoints (ATT), then you have to read the terrain info for more detail.

quote:

(2) The order of the COMBAT numbers appear to be out of sync with the MOVE order. The MOVE order is VOLGA, Major, Minor, Medium. In attack if you assume the minor river has the least impact of the 4 rivers, the order would be 20/30/50/40 to be consistent. In other words, the order is exactly the opposite of what it should be. If that is mistake, that would be a benefit to the Soviets because the game would consider minor rivers to be the VOLGA for attack purposes.


From previous example, Infantry 50%/40%/20%/30% would be respectively Volga, major, minor and medium river.

quote:

[B] The armor numbers do not match the manual at all. The manual has Volga 20, Major 35, Minor 65, Medium 50. (1) No matter what order you place these in, none of them match the three types of armor in the Hex info.


Maybe is not easy to read but these values are correct.
Manual says: Volga 20%, major 35%, medium 50% and minor 65%. They are the percentage remaining of attack points for armor and if you look under the row Medium Tanks you will find the penalties: 80%, 65%, 35%, 50% (sum 100% for all of them but the last two, maybe they should be reversed).

quote:

(2) The hex info has different numbers for light, medium, and heavy tanks. The manual just says armor.


Correct, in fact the armor values should be read as Medium Tanks.

< Message edited by Blind Sniper -- 8/1/2012 1:47:01 PM >


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RE: Extra hex info? - 8/1/2012 4:41:56 PM   
balto

 

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Thank you again.

Your response to my question #1. I am on page 49. See the table that says LANDSCAPE, there is no column for infantry to show the impact to infantry, it only has Artillery, Armor, Fighters, and Level Bombers. Help me to understand your response.

Your response to question #2 is possibly not correct. In the ATTACK columns, PLAINS get 100% the other terrain has a lower number. So in the ATTACK columns, the higher the number, the less of a penalty. So in your response, the VOLGA would be the least penalty of the 4 rivers because it is the highest number. Take a minute and look at that. I am hoping you see what I see.

Your response to question #3 - great.

Please give me your thoughts.

< Message edited by balto -- 8/1/2012 4:42:16 PM >

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RE: Extra hex info? - 8/1/2012 5:03:40 PM   
Blind Sniper


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quote:

Your response to my question #1. I am on page 49. See the table that says LANDSCAPE, there is no column for infantry to show the impact to infantry, it only has Artillery, Armor, Fighters, and Level Bombers. Help me to understand your response.


You have to check the previous table that start from page 47 (Combat Modifiers), find the row River with column Hitpoints (ATT)and you read "Yes", then under the column Type you read "Specific Individual", therefore you have to read the terrain info for more detail because here you cannot find the exact values.

quote:

Your response to question #2 is possibly not correct. In the ATTACK columns, PLAINS get 100% the other terrain has a lower number. So in the ATTACK columns, the higher the number, the less of a penalty. So in your response, the VOLGA would be the least penalty of the 4 rivers because it is the highest number. Take a minute and look at that. I am hoping you see what I see.


No the worst because this column give you the percentage remaining of attack points for different type of troops in different terrain, therefore a 100% is the best value given that you don't have panalty, 20% is the worst value because you lost 80% of your attack points. Hope it is more clear.

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RE: Extra hex info? - 8/1/2012 6:58:50 PM   
balto

 

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Sniper,

My messages are not worded well. It is my fault. Let me try this another way.

1) You and I are on the same page. We agree that Infantry is affected by looking at the Terrain Hex, but the table in the manual (47, Combat Modifiers) at the bottom with the RIVER PENALTIES does not list Infantry - it only lists Artillery, Armor, and Planes. I am just pointing something that is missing in the manual

2) You are reading the manual, I am looking at the Terrain Hex. Go to the a PLAIN Terrain Hex. Up at the top is the PLAIN with 100%. We agree, the high number means you have no penalty. Now look one inch over to the right at the RIVER modifiers (not in the manual, in the Terrain hex). You see the order, it says 50/40/20/30. So if the Volga is first (50) that means it is LESS of a PENALTY that the other three choices. See what I am saying? It should be 20/30/50/40




< Message edited by balto -- 8/1/2012 7:01:57 PM >

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Post #: 8
RE: Extra hex info? - 8/2/2012 10:16:24 AM   
Blind Sniper


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quote:

My messages are not worded well. It is my fault. Let me try this another way.


No Balto, how you can easily read English is not my mother tongue, surely I wrote something no clear.

quote:

1) You and I are on the same page. We agree that Infantry is affected by looking at the Terrain Hex, but the table in the manual (47, Combat Modifiers) at the bottom with the RIVER PENALTIES does not list Infantry - it only lists Artillery, Armor, and Planes. I am just pointing something that is missing in the manual


Yes, I think is correct.

quote:

2) You are reading the manual, I am looking at the Terrain Hex. Go to the a PLAIN Terrain Hex. Up at the top is the PLAIN with 100%. We agree, the high number means you have no penalty. Now look one inch over to the right at the RIVER modifiers (not in the manual, in the Terrain hex). You see the order, it says 50/40/20/30. So if the Volga is first (50) that means it is LESS of a PENALTY that the other three choices. See what I am saying? It should be 20/30/50/40


I think the value on the manual table (page 49) and the river modifiers in the terrain hex are different, the manual shows the percentage remaining of attack points for different types of troops (and yes Infantry is missing), the terrain hex shows the Hitpoints penalty for attack this hex behind a river (CROSS-RIV column).
Some examples:
- Medium Tank crossing the Volga
we have only 20% of attacck point left (manual table) and 80% Hitpoints penalty (terrain info), that means more difficult to hit and more easy to be hit.
- Infantry crossing the Volga
first value I don't know (manual table) but looking the terrain hex again it seems no penalty for attack points and 50% Hitpoints penalty (terrain info), no penalty to hit but still more easy to be hit.

This is what I understand but I can be totally wrong

< Message edited by Blind Sniper -- 8/2/2012 10:26:20 AM >


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Post #: 9
RE: Extra hex info? - 8/2/2012 1:36:47 PM   
Vic


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Adding this for the manual errata for v1.02 patch. The rivers give a penalty on HP not on ATT points.
My mistake.

Best,
Vic

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