RE: Exactly what my fears are about...

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RE: Exactly what my fears are about... - 8/15/2012 8:27:11 PM

L�tzow

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/08/13/australias-game-development-renaissance?utm_source=Monday%20newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=8.14%20Dynamic%20Newsletter_6539_314199_314254&utm_content=507379589

another depressing link in my opinion..

I don't see the depressing part. Indie isn't equal to casual. Among all these small indie studios and und kickstarter projects there are at least some of them targeting real gamers again (i.e. Wasteland 2). In regard to big studios, the PC is dead since 2005 or so. Everything they published during the last years were console spin-offs, addressing the mainstream market.

There would be nothing lost if companies like EA abandon classical games for the favor of social media titles.

(in reply to wodin)

Post #: 31

RE: Exactly what my fears are about... - 8/15/2012 9:55:00 PM

Scott Parrino

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Joined: 4/13/2012
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I don't think you'll see PC gaming dying, or even PCs for that matter. There's a lot you can't do on a tablet or a console, ranging from graphical and art-related programs to straight-up coding and even basic multi-tasking. It is just a shift in how technology is handling all the needs of the consumer.

Consoles are powerful enough and internet speeds are fast enough to stream music, movies, TV shows and even Skype. Having evolved from just a chipboard that played ported arcade games to systems that have developers with AAA budgets and cast is an impressive display of technology and its advancement. Having one machine in the living room to do a large amount of jobs that consumers want done is cost-effective and convenient.

Tablets themselves are still a new device that has yet to even mature and expand in the same way consoles have. Ten years ago there wasn't anything remotely close to an iPad save for some PDAs, but they were small and generally under-powered. With my iPad I have dozens of books, music, and movies at my touch for when I travel or am somewhere in my house where its convenient to do so. A lot tougher with current TVs, morso with PCs and even laptops.

PC and laptops though still have the edge. In terms of utility and control as well as the programs that run on them and functionality, consoles and tablets can't touch them. Physical keyboards and mice are excellent ways to interact with programs, menus and software, and not to mention the wide range of screen sizes, displays, etc.

In fact, don't look at PCs dying or the rise of tablets or consoles getting popular as a bad thing. It is great to see technology advancing itself. Stagnant development doesn't encourage education or job creation. There will be companies out there that want workers that studied the newest series of coding programs, hardware tech and other ideas. Every ten years is always an exciting time period due to how fast technology advances. Here's to me things from ten years ago that are completely different now:

No Facebook
Videogame controllers were still wired
No Blu-Ray
No Steam or other digital distribution networks
Cellphones were still using monochrome displays, no GPS functions, no touch-screens
All files at school were regularly handed in with 1.44 MB disks
Flatpanel screens not that common at all
Wireless networks in their infancy

This list can go on and on but I think you get the idea.

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(in reply to L�tzow)

Post #: 32

RE: Exactly what my fears are about... - 8/16/2012 2:05:44 AM

junk2drive

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When we got pong, you had to walk to the TV and turn the knob to change the channel to 3. We still had dial telephones too.

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Post #: 33

RE: Exactly what my fears are about... - 8/16/2012 2:43:24 AM

wodin

Posts: 6504
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: online

It's depressing because if all new developers go and make games for tablets and phones instead of the PC eventually no one will be making PC games. It's this sort of thing coupled by the worrying hardware news with regards to sales plummeting. Eventually your hardware manufacturers will just be making stuff for new generation tablets\phones and a console every five years..they just wouldn't sell enough PC hardware to make it viable..couple as mentioned with cloud gaming thta will be the end of graphic card upgrades etc, as there wont be any to upgrade too.

In the end we will all have TV boxes that access cloud gaming service and you'll be totally dependent on their hardware and when they feel like upgrading. The upgrades would most likely be built by the cloud service..lets say Valve for instance.

For years it was just console as the possible downfall and that was never going happen, now we have things on many fronts.

1. Tablets\Phones
2. Next gen consoles
3. Cloud gaming (will finish off graphic card upgrades etc)
4. Decline of hardware sales at alarming rate.
5. Most new and small developers heading straight for the tablet\phone market..these people at one time would have been making games on a PC.
6. Windows 8 (sign of the times). That awful even Valve are worried. A tablet\phone OS shoved onto a desktop, they even say it was designed as a tablet\phone OS. Also already we have at least one game going to be Win8 only, so unlike previous versions of windows it looks like games regardless of Direct X can and will be made for just Win8.They say they are going to be looking at Linux as a PC game OS replacement.
7. AMD and NVidea already concerned over low sales of new hardware. Watch them eventually concentrate on new tablet and phone tech.
8. Read a few reports about how people in the industry are really worried about tablets etc, as a threat to PC gaming..including one by Paradox Chairman a few months ago.

Now I understand that we have all this power and all developers do is make better graphics with the same old gameplay. But at least the power to do other things is there. It's the fact that if hardware companies do stop making graphic cards etc then thats it. It will set back tech a fair few years back and PC wise it will stagnate. As I said it will all end up being cloud based. Shudder. Personally I like having a PC. I like being able to upgrade my card or get a new CPU every few years. I enjoy all that side of the hobby. I'm sure one day I wont have a PC but some sort of tablet device that no doubt will be doing things that my PC can do now, but it will be in a few years time I'm sure. The hardware side of all this and lack of sales is the most worrying aspect. I bet many now who once would have upgraded the home computer or want a new one, now go and buy a tablet instead, and I bet thats an awful lot of PC sales going out the window. Are there enough hardcore PC gamers to keep the industry going alone? I'm not so sure. I hope so.

< Message edited by wodin -- 8/16/2012 2:44:59 AM >

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Post #: 34

RE: Exactly what my fears are about... - 8/16/2012 5:23:47 PM

flanyboy

Posts: 1101
Joined: 11/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

It's depressing because if all new developers go and make games for tablets and phones instead of the PC eventually no one will be making PC games. It's this sort of thing coupled by the worrying hardware news with regards to sales plummeting. Eventually your hardware manufacturers will just be making stuff for new generation tablets\phones and a console every five years..they just wouldn't sell enough PC hardware to make it viable..couple as mentioned with cloud gaming thta will be the end of graphic card upgrades etc, as there wont be any to upgrade too.

In the end we will all have TV boxes that access cloud gaming service and you'll be totally dependent on their hardware and when they feel like upgrading. The upgrades would most likely be built by the cloud service..lets say Valve for instance.

For years it was just console as the possible downfall and that was never going happen, now we have things on many fronts.

1. Tablets\Phones
2. Next gen consoles
3. Cloud gaming (will finish off graphic card upgrades etc)
4. Decline of hardware sales at alarming rate.
5. Most new and small developers heading straight for the tablet\phone market..these people at one time would have been making games on a PC.
6. Windows 8 (sign of the times). That awful even Valve are worried. A tablet\phone OS shoved onto a desktop, they even say it was designed as a tablet\phone OS. Also already we have at least one game going to be Win8 only, so unlike previous versions of windows it looks like games regardless of Direct X can and will be made for just Win8.They say they are going to be looking at Linux as a PC game OS replacement.
7. AMD and NVidea already concerned over low sales of new hardware. Watch them eventually concentrate on new tablet and phone tech.
8. Read a few reports about how people in the industry are really worried about tablets etc, as a threat to PC gaming..including one by Paradox Chairman a few months ago.

Now I understand that we have all this power and all developers do is make better graphics with the same old gameplay. But at least the power to do other things is there. It's the fact that if hardware companies do stop making graphic cards etc then thats it. It will set back tech a fair few years back and PC wise it will stagnate. As I said it will all end up being cloud based. Shudder. Personally I like having a PC. I like being able to upgrade my card or get a new CPU every few years. I enjoy all that side of the hobby. I'm sure one day I wont have a PC but some sort of tablet device that no doubt will be doing things that my PC can do now, but it will be in a few years time I'm sure. The hardware side of all this and lack of sales is the most worrying aspect. I bet many now who once would have upgraded the home computer or want a new one, now go and buy a tablet instead, and I bet thats an awful lot of PC sales going out the window. Are there enough hardcore PC gamers to keep the industry going alone? I'm not so sure. I hope so.

I think your seriously over reacting. It might become more niche with regards to hardware, and its possible that relative prices might increase but it wont die entirely and that assumes worst case scenario.

(in reply to wodin)

Post #: 35

RE: Exactly what my fears are about... - 8/16/2012 6:35:34 PM

Perturabo

Posts: 2011
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline

Wasn't there Vista several years ago?

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Post #: 36

RE: Exactly what my fears are about... - 8/16/2012 7:03:14 PM

british exil

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From: Lower Saxony Germany
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Does anybody remember the walkman, the music cassette or VHS, Beta the video cassette? Vinyl?

The CD, DVD or BluRay has replaced most if not all.

The discman (mobile CD player) has been replaced by the IPod which in some cases has been preplaced by the smartphone.

Paperbooks have been replaced by the Kindle, at least that is what I saw last week in the tube in London.

3-5 kindles where there used to be a paperback. Morning newspapers replaced by the IPad or other tablets.

Yes the world as we know is a changing.

Some fears for the good old PC maybe be right.

Mat

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Post #: 37

RE: Exactly what my fears are about... - 8/16/2012 10:22:57 PM

L�tzow

Posts: 1416
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

It's depressing because if all new developers go and make games for tablets and phones instead of the PC eventually no one will be making PC games. It's this sort of thing coupled by the worrying hardware news with regards to sales plummeting. Eventually your hardware manufacturers will just be making stuff for new generation tablets\phones and a console every five years..they just wouldn't sell enough PC hardware to make it viable..couple as mentioned with cloud gaming thta will be the end of graphic card upgrades etc, as there wont be any to upgrade too.

I see it from the bright side. If large publishers are going to abandon the PC, they leave a gap which will get filled again sooner or later. There exists of course a market for serious gamers, it just doesn't sell millions of units of a particular title. Today's gaming industry get carried from marketing analysts and investors which are not even interested in their actual product but merely in maximizing revenues.

Remember how it was back in the 80's and early 90's? There were two groups utilizing computers, one primarily consumed stuff and the other one made their living out of it. Nevertheless, both were hobbyists, used to dig into comprehensive manuals and with at least a basic knowledge in programming. The downfall started when Win 3.0/95 catered the mainstream, and it embraced PC games around Y2k.

So if you're right in your fears and everybody and his dog is switching to tablets in the future, the PC will be given back to those where it belongs to - and that would be a good thing. That being said, hardcore sims and alike will be always available at our platform, because these need a keyboard and a higher lever of perception.

On the other hand I enjoy smartphones and tablets as a customer and web-developer likewise. It's easy to get your feet wet with building apps in HTML5 and JavaScript.

< Message edited by L�tzow -- 8/16/2012 10:24:08 PM >

(in reply to wodin)

Post #: 38

RE: Exactly what my fears are about... - 8/17/2012 4:06:00 AM

flanyboy

Posts: 1101
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil

Does anybody remember the walkman, the music cassette or VHS, Beta the video cassette? Vinyl?

The CD, DVD or BluRay has replaced most if not all.

The discman (mobile CD player) has been replaced by the IPod which in some cases has been preplaced by the smartphone.

Paperbooks have been replaced by the Kindle, at least that is what I saw last week in the tube in London.

3-5 kindles where there used to be a paperback. Morning newspapers replaced by the IPad or other tablets.

Yes the world as we know is a changing.

Some fears for the good old PC maybe be right.

Mat

The Kindle is ONLY outselling paper books when you ONLY look at Amazon sales, and then only in England. Yes I'm sure it will be awhile before paperback books are being outsold on a world wide basis. Further I think books are a better example than cd players. Some people just prefer paper books to electronic and because of that you'll see fewer and fewer paper books but they will never disappear entirely, at least not for a long time. Millions of people still don't want kindles even if the mainstream will replace paper-books the market wont vanish entirely. The same will go for PC's it will greatly diminish but not vanish. Further other classical items like Vinyl are making a comeback for nostalgia reasons, it's still very niche but its there.

(in reply to british exil)

Post #: 39

RE: Exactly what my fears are about... - 8/17/2012 4:50:30 AM

Rtwfreak

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I've always said if wargames/strategy games can goto a smaller less costly version of hardware I'm there in a NY minute. I'm tired of upgrading every 4-5 years and buying yet another video card just so I can play the latest greatest. I'm tired of all these metal boxes in my closets and in my attics just because I may need one someday to play an old game I miss or want to play again. If consoles could play the majority of wargame/strategy games I'd already be there. I look forward to the day I can play from something like a Tablet and a large monitor plugin if I want. I don't care if games are in the clouds or from a hole in the ground. I hope it's soon though. It's time to put these dinosaur PC's to rest.

(in reply to danlongman)

Post #: 40

RE: Exactly what my fears are about... - 8/17/2012 5:29:14 AM

flanyboy

Posts: 1101
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rtwfreak

I've always said if wargames/strategy games can goto a smaller less costly version of hardware I'm there in a NY minute. I'm tired of upgrading every 4-5 years and buying yet another video card just so I can play the latest greatest. I'm tired of all these metal boxes in my closets and in my attics just because I may need one someday to play an old game I miss or want to play again. If consoles could play the majority of wargame/strategy games I'd already be there. I look forward to the day I can play from something like a Tablet and a large monitor plugin if I want. I don't care if games are in the clouds or from a hole in the ground. I hope it's soon though. It's time to put these dinosaur PC's to rest.

Thats your personal opinion but Tablets are ridiculously under powered still for MOST wargame requirements still... There is a reason you need to upgrade your computer. Developers push the envelope, Tablets are still 4-5 years behind current PC tech if not more. Of course you could be satisfied because of course developers may choose to release lower quality games which I think is the crux of peoples worry.

(in reply to Rtwfreak)

Post #: 41

RE: Exactly what my fears are about... - 8/17/2012 5:33:31 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil

Does anybody remember the walkman, the music cassette or VHS, Beta the video cassette? Vinyl?

warspite1

Yes to all..... I'm getting old

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Post #: 42

RE: Exactly what my fears are about... - 8/17/2012 6:07:10 AM

Fallschirmjager

Posts: 6302
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From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
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I don't see PC gaming as dead either. Using retail space as an indicator is not a very good yardstick. Digital sales are so dominant now that you don't see PC games in the retail area anymore.
I buy maybe 1-2 physical games a year now for the PC. With Steam, Amazon, Gamersgate, GOG and Origin (yuck) there is a LOT of competition for digital sales.
The odds of me finding a physical copy of a PC game for cheaper than a digital copy are about 1%. There are competing sales almost year around now where one of the sites undercuts another and we as gamers win.

Digital sales also let a lot more untraditional games come out now. You still see some big releases as PC only exclusives.
Fortunately, or unfortunately you also see a lot of PC games that are console ports.

This is both good and bad. In many cases it handicaps the PC experience. But in other cases we see titles on PC that would never see the light of day if it wasn't for the console release.

And some developers actually put the time in and make the PC release even better.

Grand Theft Auto IV had significant problems upon it's release on the PC but after patches and with good hardware it looks simply stunning on PC.

We will see another leap forward in mainstream titles when the next generation of consoles are launched. Right now they are developing for 7 year old hardware and the limitations are starting to show. When the XBox 720 and PS4 are out then PC titles will follow.

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Post #: 43

RE: Exactly what my fears are about... - 8/17/2012 10:26:40 AM

Perturabo

Posts: 2011
Joined: 11/17/2007
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Retail became irrelevant to PC gaming the moment when they dropped the big boxes and replaced them with DVD boxes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil

Does anybody remember the walkman, the music cassette or VHS, Beta the video cassette? Vinyl?

Vinyls are making a comeback as collector items (probably due to the whole digital music thing - both as a reaction against "soullessness" of MP3 and due to the CDs losing importance due to digital downloads - personally, I have 3 Vinyls and I don't even have a record player). As for the cassettes - a good riddance - they were ugly and the quality and usability was poor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil

Paperbooks have been replaced by the Kindle, at least that is what I saw last week in the tube in London.

3-5 kindles where there used to be a paperback. Morning newspapers replaced by the IPad or other tablets.

Are books being replaced or is renting books from libraries being replaced? Because for example, I have rented 120 books from library during last year and I have bought some 10x less paperbacks, most of them being history books or books that I consider to be classics and wanted to have on my shelf or couldn't get from the library. I could easily imagine using kindle for reading the books of the type that I rent from library to read them once and never to read them again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil

Some fears for the good old PC maybe be right.

PC is all about having an upgradeable box with a keyboard and a big screen and a mouse and other paraphernalia attached. Even if the box will be 10x10cm it will still be a PC.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 8/17/2012 10:29:08 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 44

RE: Exactly what my fears are about... - 8/18/2012 4:37:46 AM

flanyboy

Posts: 1101
Joined: 11/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: flanyboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rtwfreak

I've always said if wargames/strategy games can goto a smaller less costly version of hardware I'm there in a NY minute. I'm tired of upgrading every 4-5 years and buying yet another video card just so I can play the latest greatest. I'm tired of all these metal boxes in my closets and in my attics just because I may need one someday to play an old game I miss or want to play again. If consoles could play the majority of wargame/strategy games I'd already be there. I look forward to the day I can play from something like a Tablet and a large monitor plugin if I want. I don't care if games are in the clouds or from a hole in the ground. I hope it's soon though. It's time to put these dinosaur PC's to rest.

Thats your personal opinion but Tablets are ridiculously under powered still for MOST wargame requirements still... There is a reason you need to upgrade your computer. Developers push the envelope, Tablets are still 4-5 years behind current PC tech if not more. Of course you could be satisfied because of course developers may choose to release lower quality games which I think is the crux of peoples worry.

I also think your forgetting something. Tablets are worse than PCs right now in upgrade frequency. Android only supports a tablet for maybe 1 or 2 years iOS is more like 2-3 years. After that the hardware is being so quickly outstripped you'll have to get a newer device. 1 Unit might be cheaper than a PC but just upgrading the RAM and Graphics card once after 3 years or so is cheaper than buying 1 new tablet and 3 new tablets per new PC things start to even out more.

Out of the Park Baseball is a good example of an app that was released last year and already it would not support the original iPhone after just a few years of it being out. You'll get stuck in the same upgrade loop with phones and tablets and to a lesser expensive side consoles.

(in reply to flanyboy)

Post #: 45

RE: Exactly what my fears are about... - 8/25/2012 10:23:23 AM

flanyboy

Posts: 1101
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline

Also I think another thing people leave out is the incredible lure of fan created mods. Back in the days of Rome Total War and Silent Hunter III fan created mods made the games dramatically better. I think developers fighting back against modding abilities has hurt the PC industry but the success of ARMA2 as a result of the DAYZ mod proves that PC game sales can be dramatically helped by player created super mods that go well beyond the original scope of the game. As long as developers learn to embrace and not shackle the modding community PC gaming will survive to some extent, at least until console games or cloud gaming starts being more open to the concept of Mods which as of yet they have not.

DayZ Mod increases ARMA2 Sales 500%

(in reply to flanyboy)

Post #: 46