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NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death

 
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NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 7/27/2012 7:29:54 AM   
redmarkus4


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Deleted - on hold until I have time to focus on this one in more detail.

< Message edited by redmarkus4 -- 8/9/2012 7:50:15 PM >


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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 7/27/2012 9:04:33 AM   
Keunert


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wow you guys are fast, very cool. DC1 took over a year to get a single mod.
how are your plans about new scenrios? is this something you plan to do?
or will you stick to editing maps and existing scenarios for now?

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 7/27/2012 9:47:04 AM   
redmarkus4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert

wow you guys are fast, very cool. DC1 took over a year to get a single mod.
how are your plans about new scenrios? is this something you plan to do?
or will you stick to editing maps and existing scenarios for now?


There are big plans in my mind for new scenarios like Barbarossa and Bagration, or even Normandy and the American Civil War one day - it's possible. But first we need to learn the system in depth, so modding existing scenarios is the first step. We are only scratching the surface right now and I am starting by producing more of the 'small battles', like the Kerch scenario that Vic posted. Even with this, I haven't understood how to edit the OOB and events properly.

To build a completely new scenario, the tough part is building a new OOB from scratch and defining the events code. I don't yet know how to do that. If more modders join up, it will move much faster. For example, I was able to focus on this for some days because it's the summer quiet period, but now my work is calling me again. We need to create some virtual mod teams with people covering the following areas:

- Battle, Map and OOB research (no technical skill needed - just find the correct info in a format modders can use easily)
- Map development (me and Krupp_88 for example)
- OOB development (guys like WilliePete, but we need more because it's a lot of work)
- Event coding (probably one clever guy could cover this)
- New artwork (me and a couple more)

I would like to start with a 1941 mod that covers AGS (basically, the same map with about 20 hexes added in the West and 20 removed in the East, a June 22 1941 OOB and some Barbarossa events code). I think this could be done part time in a couple of months.

Committed volunteers needed!

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 7/27/2012 9:47:44 AM   
redmarkus4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert
DC1 took over a year to get a single mod.



I modded the DC1 unit graphics within about 1 week of launch ;)

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 7/27/2012 9:56:29 AM   
Keunert


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hmm i missed that one...

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 7/27/2012 6:50:53 PM   
Blind Sniper


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Red you are very fast, my congrats

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 7/27/2012 7:00:16 PM   
redmarkus4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blind Sniper

Red you are very fast, my congrats


Thanks but this was developed by WilliePete who is even faster! I just posted it...

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 7/27/2012 7:51:49 PM   
Iñaki Harrizabalagatar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert

wow you guys are fast, very cool. DC1 took over a year to get a single mod.
how are your plans about new scenrios? is this something you plan to do?
or will you stick to editing maps and existing scenarios for now?


There are big plans in my mind for new scenarios like Barbarossa and Bagration, or even Normandy and the American Civil War one day - it's possible. But first we need to learn the system in depth, so modding existing scenarios is the first step. We are only scratching the surface right now and I am starting by producing more of the 'small battles', like the Kerch scenario that Vic posted. Even with this, I haven't understood how to edit the OOB and events properly.

To build a completely new scenario, the tough part is building a new OOB from scratch and defining the events code. I don't yet know how to do that. If more modders join up, it will move much faster. For example, I was able to focus on this for some days because it's the summer quiet period, but now my work is calling me again. We need to create some virtual mod teams with people covering the following areas:

- Battle, Map and OOB research (no technical skill needed - just find the correct info in a format modders can use easily)
- Map development (me and Krupp_88 for example)
- OOB development (guys like WilliePete, but we need more because it's a lot of work)
- Event coding (probably one clever guy could cover this)
- New artwork (me and a couple more)

I would like to start with a 1941 mod that covers AGS (basically, the same map with about 20 hexes added in the West and 20 removed in the East, a June 22 1941 OOB and some Barbarossa events code). I think this could be done part time in a couple of months.

Committed volunteers needed!

I volunteer for the OOB and TOE research. I have a lot of experience with that and documentation stored, having done scenarios for TOAW and Battlefields.

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 7/27/2012 10:08:27 PM   
redmarkus4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iñaki Harrizabalagatar
I volunteer for the OOB and TOE research. I have a lot of experience with that and documentation stored, having done scenarios for TOAW and Battlefields.


That's great. WilliePete is doing the same, starting with the Rostov mini-scenario and a full edit of the Fall Blau OOB to make it historical.

How would you like to tackle Manstein's Winter Offensive towards Stalingrad? That needs an OOB to be fully research and built from scratch...

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 7/28/2012 1:45:03 AM   
sandman2575


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I'm curious about the Nebelwerfer/Katyusha 'auto death' mechanic to begin with -- it seems strange and seems to imply that these units are overpowered - or at least, potentially combat unbalancing? I'd be curious to hear more about why Vic went with a "one and done" approach, one combat, then remove unit from the game.

It would seem to suggest that if you're going to mod out auto death, a nerf for these units might well be necessary. - ?

< Message edited by sandman2575 -- 7/28/2012 1:46:03 AM >

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 7/28/2012 6:27:12 AM   
redmarkus4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sandman2575

I'm curious about the Nebelwerfer/Katyusha 'auto death' mechanic to begin with -- it seems strange and seems to imply that these units are overpowered - or at least, potentially combat unbalancing? I'd be curious to hear more about why Vic went with a "one and done" approach, one combat, then remove unit from the game.

It would seem to suggest that if you're going to mod out auto death, a nerf for these units might well be necessary. - ?


Yes, quite possibly true. Once we get some player feedback we can look at the other unit settings.

In fact, WP had originally pointed me at how to mod the Nebelwerfer and I added the Katyusha to the list to balance things out.

However, looking at their effect on the battle prior to the mod, it didn't seem particularly dramatic. I think it's realistic for the player to have a few specialist resources like this that he can cross-attach and concentrate at key points. Remember, they will still require 4 turns to rebuild their stockpiles.

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 7/28/2012 9:06:47 AM   
redmarkus4


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Volunteer modders!

Join the DCCB Community Modding effort here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3152214.

Don't ask what DCCB can do for you. Ask what you can do for DCCB. Serve your player community with pride.

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/9/2012 4:03:05 AM   
bwheatley

 

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I think it will turn out to be a big impact since these weapons are super powerful. The combat efficiency might need to be tweaked downwards. And you might need to tone down replacements for these pieces of equipment or you would have a ton of them standing way.

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/9/2012 6:19:22 AM   
rjh1971


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quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

...

I would like to start with a 1941 mod that covers AGS (basically, the same map with about 20 hexes added in the West and 20 removed in the East, a June 22 1941 OOB and some Barbarossa events code). I think this could be done part time in a couple of months.

...!


This scenarios would make me soooo happy.

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/9/2012 7:02:50 AM   
redmarkus4


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I have started work on it but I need someone to help me edit the Events code...

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/9/2012 4:25:12 PM   
mercho


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Hi Redmarkus,

the link in the first post seems to be dead...

mercho

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/9/2012 5:55:17 PM   
Grotius


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I'm confused -- do these units poof after one use? I just used a German Neb. (rocket) unit, and it's still on the map a turn later, albeit with very low supply. Am I missing something?

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/9/2012 7:49:03 PM   
redmarkus4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mercho

Hi Redmarkus,

the link in the first post seems to be dead...

mercho


Sorry about that. I was hoping some people would test the mod and feedback, but nobody did. Now that I understand the game in a bit more depth, I realise that there are probably some issues with this mod, so I took it down for a while. Need to look at how replacements will work and also how to limit the ability of players to spawn dozens of these units...

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/9/2012 7:49:44 PM   
redmarkus4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

I'm confused -- do these units poof after one use? I just used a German Neb. (rocket) unit, and it's still on the map a turn later, albeit with very low supply. Am I missing something?


Yes they do in Vanilla, hence the attempt at modding it to change that.

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/9/2012 9:02:41 PM   
Grotius


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Ah, OK, I misunderstood you. The unit doesn't poof, but the Nebelwerfer "trooptype" does. It comes back as replacements, so we'll be able to use it once every 3-5 turns or so. Is that so out of whack historically? Rockets were hard to come by at the front. In OCS's boardgame "Case Blue", I don't fire my rockets more than once every couple weeks, although in that game it's because they're abstracted as just costing lots and lots of supply.

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/9/2012 9:24:44 PM   
redmarkus4


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I shouldn't be coming back as replacements. It's set to die after first use in the Editor. Unless Vic has changed this in one of the recent patches, it's a one shot weapon.

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/10/2012 12:22:21 AM   
Grotius


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Hmm, so there are never any replacements for that troop type? That does sound wrong.

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/10/2012 3:03:28 PM   
redmarkus4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Hmm, so there are never any replacements for that troop type? That does sound wrong.


I believe that's the case, but I haven't dived into it. I can confirm that the Vanilla setting is for them to 'die' after one use.

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/11/2012 7:51:49 AM   
bwheatley

 

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oh let me take a quick look at the events redmarkus4 i bet it's in a stringlist somewhere and i can point you in the right direction. :) though i kinda liked that these babies are rare since they were rare and powerful in reality.

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/11/2012 7:56:06 AM   
bwheatley

 

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There you go red. If you look at stringlist string 0 for germany and string 1 for soviest..easy peasy.

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/11/2012 10:31:10 AM   
redmarkus4


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Thanks! OK, what I had already done to work around this was:

1. Set rockets to use heavy artillery reinforcement type. (I will change this back to 'Rocket' as the Reinf string looks good to go, right?)
2. Set them to not die after first use.
3. Reduced their attack value to 2 (Neb) and 4 (Kat) down from 12 and 16. So, they are still 2x150mm, which is plenty, but they should now hang around for the duration of the game.
4. Gave them an artillery range of 2, so you don't need to put them in the front line.
5. Gave them the motorized movement type to allow players to concentrate them at key points more easily - reflects their actual usage.
6. Assigned them to Army HQs in the Case Blue scenario I am still modding.

I am pretty sure there's a setting to prevent the player from building/spamming any given unit type but I can't find it...

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/11/2012 10:35:25 AM   
redmarkus4


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Is it correct that the SS Pz Divs in the game only have a Panzer Battalion, while the standard Pz Divs get a Panzer Regt? I thought the SS Divisions were better equipped overall.

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/11/2012 10:37:23 AM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

Thanks! OK, what I had already done to work around this was:

1. Set rockets to use heavy artillery reinforcement type. (I will change this back to 'Rocket' as the Reinf string looks good to go, right?)
2. Set them to not die after first use.
3. Reduced their attack value to 2 (Neb) and 4 (Kat) down from 12 and 16. So, they are still 2x150mm, which is plenty, but they should now hang around for the duration of the game.
4. Gave them an artillery range of 2, so you don't need to put them in the front line.
5. Gave them the motorized movement type to allow players to concentrate them at key points more easily - reflects their actual usage.
6. Assigned them to Army HQs in the Case Blue scenario I am still modding.

I am pretty sure there's a setting to prevent the player from building/spamming any given unit type but I can't find it...


Oh you can set a max # of a model in the historic unit tab.

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/11/2012 10:38:47 AM   
bwheatley

 

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there you go :)

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RE: NO Nebelwerfer and Katyusha Auto Death - 8/11/2012 10:41:00 AM   
redmarkus4


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I think that only affects the number on-map at game start. The player can still create them.

PBEM House Rule needed, I guess?

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