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RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no Olivier

 
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RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 3:36:37 PM   
Blind Sniper


Posts: 720
Joined: 8/9/2008
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline 		You mean Political Points.

quote:

i still try to figure out if a corps commander with low organization harms the armies under his command with organizational penalties, or if the low organization only
effects the cards he is able to play.


No it is important for 9.8 Soviet "out of depth rule" as well, as Soviet player I would try to change my poor leaders if any available asap (luck factor involved)

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(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 91
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 4:56:14 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		July 12th 1942, turn 8

After some quality time with the manual I regain control of the battlefield and am my old unbeatable self again. Nevertheless we order more retreats and slowly fall back into the Hinterland.

Soviet Troops: 411'400 (-107'000)
Axis Troops: 760'700 (-9'000)

Our high losses are even less alarming than the non existant axis casualties.

Romanian armored units and german Landsers crossed the Don again and annihilated all defenders. The neighbouring troops of the 5th TA were attacked by air, bombardment and command&control penalties. The few units able to conduct a counterattack were pulled back. In other words: the Don line is no more. The german bridgehead will be expanded fast.

Voronesh will soon fall. There is no way i will be able to hold it until July 28. My prestige level is now at 10. The fall of Voronesh will be reality within two or three turns at maximum.




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< Message edited by Keunert -- 8/6/2012 4:59:00 PM >

(in reply to Blind Sniper)
Post #: 92
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 5:00:55 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		July 12th 1942, turn 8

With our airforce resting and refitting the Luftwaffe reigns the skies. This hurts mostly our tank units. Our losses are very high, while german tank losses are getting less and less.




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(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 93
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 5:03:33 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		July 12th 1942, turn 8
Northern Front

Romanian units breach the Don line. What a shame! 11th Panzer threatens to cut off a few more units. Nothing serious compared with the Pocket of Shame further south. This pocket got cleared this turn, killing another 15'000 of our men.
Rest in peace comrades...

This part of the front and another part in the south have lot's of units under Corps command instead of army command. as i understand it, those units will not benefit from any combat bonus. i created an army HQ here... hopefully Olivier doesn't make me look any blöder and overruns it next turn. the idea is to put all units into army HQ, no more units under direct corps command.




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< Message edited by Keunert -- 8/6/2012 5:19:00 PM >

(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 94
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 5:05:39 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		July 12th 1942, turn 8
Central Front

The center still mourns the 40'000 fallen comrades. Even with our siberian reinforcements we have not enough troops to fight here. everybody pulls back. We spend here a lot of PP and energy to reorganize the chaos that occured after the breakdown of the center. from this turn on most of our troops are either back within command range of their HQ or they are now part of another HQ.




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< Message edited by Keunert -- 8/6/2012 5:19:29 PM >

(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 95
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 5:13:16 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		July 12th 1942, turn 8

The Vikings are strong and sail up the Donetzk causing us trouble. A newly arrived guard inf. division is deployed at Morowsky and marches to man a new line behind the Bystrala. A Partizan unit is doing it's railroad dance at Artemovsk.




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< Message edited by Keunert -- 8/6/2012 5:14:30 PM >

(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 96
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 5:18:20 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		July 12th 1942, turn 8
South Front

Our new found confidence in soviet arms lead to a new strategy here: rather die fighting than die sitting... We did a five sided attack on two units of the 298th Infanterie div. with some artillery support. But to no avail. The attacking units suffered badly.

Another four sided attack was conducted on regiments of the 24th Inf Div with the same depressing result.




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(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 97
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 5:25:48 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		July 12th 1942, turn 8

While the land war is going down the drain we amuse Stalin with good news from the navy, worlds best navy as he calls them. Our recon shows that Manstein almost completely left the Krim. We cannot resist and load some boats with units to do a real or maybe just a fake landing at the Krims bottleneck. with our ships on the sea, the Krim would be cut off from supply if we successfully land here.

on the other hand there is not much to gain here. we do not have the means to deploy enough troops to push the romanians out of the crimea.




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(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 98
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 8:28:27 PM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3279
Joined: 12/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert

July 12th 1942, turn 8
South Front

Our new found confidence in soviet arms lead to a new strategy here: rather die fighting than die sitting... We did a five sided attack on two units of the 298th Infanterie div. with some artillery support. But to no avail. The attacking units suffered badly.

Another four sided attack was conducted on regiments of the 24th Inf Div with the same depressing result.





When you do multisided attacks like that try to make sure they are all the same HQ (you can easily spot it with the HQ color banner on the left edge of the counters).

That would have probably helped you greatly. If you don't attack with a single HQ then you're losing valuable encirclement bonues.

Keep up the good fight!

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(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 99
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 9:10:13 PM   
krupp_88mm


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Joined: 10/13/2008
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quote:




That would have probably helped you greatly. If you don't attack with a single HQ then you're losing valuable encirclement bonues.

I was wondering why the encirclement bonus' varied so widely, in some of my attacks on blindsnipre I attacked form 5 sides and was getting 150% encirclement bonus.. plus like 20# divisional bonus. Absolutely wild when you can do that, just slaughters anystack, I wonder if this is OP.

(in reply to bwheatley)
Post #: 100
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 9:16:51 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5038
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		Ah, I didn't know that it was important to use the same HQ. I've been trying to keep divisions together for the "divisional bonus." You get more a bonus if two divisions from the same HQ join an attack than if two different divisions do?

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Post #: 101
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 9:21:48 PM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Ah, I didn't know that it was important to use the same HQ. I've been trying to keep divisions together for the "divisional bonus." You get more a bonus if two divisions from the same HQ join an attack than if two different divisions do?


from the manual
quote:


7.2.4. CONCENTRIC ATTACKS
Attacking from multiple sides yields bonuses; concentric attack is recalculated every
time an attacking unit retreats or breaks off from combat.
To do a concentric attack, select units which surround the enemy unit when attacking.
Units must belong to the same HQ (Corps/Army) to enjoy the full benefit of the
concentric bonus.

7.2.5. DIVISIONAL COOPERATION
You receive bonuses for attacking with multiple assets from the same division or for
having other divisional assets in the same hex or a hex directly next to the hex battled
on.


But yea whenever you can if you attack with all units in the same army/korps(soviet/german) you'll get a much better concentric bonus.

The divisional bonus is nice but i'd trade it anyday of the week for a concentric bonus with units all under the same HQ. A five sided attack with the same hq should typically always tear up the defender. :)

Don't worry once you get the hang of it it becomes second nature.


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(in reply to Grotius)
Post #: 102
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 10:01:36 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		Thank you guys, i know about this and would do it if.... but i cannot wait for ideal circumstances. my units mobility is reduced. some are slow because of command and control penalties (although this gets a little better every round) but most are torn by constant shelling and bombing. if i have an occasion like this: concentric attack on a not too strong stack with artillery support i have to give it a try.

some of my units had to attack across a river. this reduced their attack value further. i also find it very hard to keep my retreat organized: some armies are almost depleted, neighbouring units help out and after a few turns you have to watch out, or everything will be a big unorganized mess.

(in reply to bwheatley)
Post #: 103
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 10:12:02 PM   
krupp_88mm


Posts: 411
Joined: 10/13/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert

Thank you guys, i know about this and would do it if.... but i cannot wait for ideal circumstances. my units mobility is reduced. some are slow because of command and control penalties (although this gets a little better every round) but most are torn by constant shelling and bombing. if i have an occasion like this: concentric attack on a not too strong stack with artillery support i have to give it a try.

some of my units had to attack across a river. this reduced their attack value further. i also find it very hard to keep my retreat organized: some armies are almost depleted, neighbouring units help out and after a few turns you have to watch out, or everything will be a big unorganized mess.

When you do the concentric attacks and will be in trouble if it fails, try to keep your main attacking force at the back of the curve, and just one unit at the forward points in the curve, in this manner if it fails, is will be hard for him to surround most of your units

(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 104
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 10:17:23 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		July 14th 1942, turn 9

There is a depressing mood in our headquarter. Our armies send in reports of retreats, depleted units and requests for more reinforcements. The constant crisis makes it hard to keep our troops organized. by now nine out of ten divisions have missing regiments. but we lack political points to rebuild them. whenever our commanders visit the front to issue no step back orders they reach only one or maybe two regiments.

We decided to send new reinforcements to lines far behind the current frontline. but we need more than what is coming. four days ago the axis killed 40'000men, two day ago it was 15'000... our only hope is to run and evade more casualties. but this comes with a cost: we pulled back in Voronezh. Only the local Militia is there to fight its final fight.

Our airforce is regaining strength, but at a low pace. fighter units still miss 80planes / unit, Sturmovik even 85/unit, the bomber groups are now at 50% of their TOE. One thing my pilots gain while waiting is experience. some of them are at a whopping 19 points, other units already reached an impressive 21. The improving C&C level also reduces the AP & readines penalties. We should send them to the front as soon as possible. but if we send them too early all will be in vain.






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< Message edited by Keunert -- 8/7/2012 7:51:20 PM >

(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 105
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 11:01:27 PM   
jjdenver

 

Posts: 1229
Joined: 11/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert
i made so many mistakes i think i lost this one already. i just started another Case Blue Short pbem and was able to counterattack some of the german units. i changed commanders and had not one penalty on the first turn. maybe against Olivier i was a little unlucky so far weather wise and penalty wise. Like Krupp i changed the idiot commanding Bryansk Front. i just wonder what a uncapable army commander does to the troops? is he the one that inflicts those organizational penalties to his subcommanders?

also my air force did not suffer any penalty this turn. besides my mistakes i may have been a little unlucky so far. but as this is part of me learning to beat Olivier once more i will stick to the bitter end.


I heartily disagree. I think the scenario in general is slanted toward the Soviet side, and that's at least in part historical. The Soviets took massive losses in the summer but ended up greatly outnumbering and outgunning the Germans due to their massive reinforcement and replacement rate.

I think you vastly understimate the resilience of the Red Army.

You could lose I think every unit you start the game with by end of 1942 and still win the game because you get something like 2 million men in the scenario and only start with about 500,000. So really your losses so far are not important in the big picture. Your Red Army is just warming up while the German Porsche is already running at full speed but will only get weaker and weaker.

Buck up Red Army commander. :)


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(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 106
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 11:28:34 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		^ Comrade, i know Stalin sent you. When you leave here tell this son of a snitch that our troops are melting away, that we have now lost over a fifth of our men but face more axis troops than ever before. our defeat is accelerating, LESS MEN THAN EVER BEFORE are facing even more troops! he exactly knows what this means IT IS ABOUT TIME TO STOP LYING TO OURSELF AND finally face the sad truth about our situation: there will soon be no siberia left to put away our experienced commanders!

go tell him this Comrade and be advised on your trip back to fly low and fly by night...

< Message edited by Keunert -- 8/6/2012 11:30:14 PM >

(in reply to jjdenver)
Post #: 107
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/6/2012 11:31:21 PM   
jjdenver

 

Posts: 1229
Joined: 11/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert
July 14th 1942, turn 10
by now nine out of ten divisions have missing regiments. but we lack political points to rebuild them.


You may have some understanding that I don't - but or me I wouldn't spend the PP's to rebuild destroyed regiments at this point. I'd only do that if I have lots of replacements sitting around with no units to be allocated to - a problem I doubt you're facing. I'd save those PP's for more important things like making a new supply source at Tbilisi, requesting more replacements, replacing incompetent commanders, etc.

Spending PP's on replacing destroyed regiments seems like an exercise in futility since you don't have the men and equipment sitting around to fill them and you need the PP's for other things....just my 2 cents. I'm having fun with the AAR btw...thanks.

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(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 108
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/7/2012 6:19:59 AM   
Keunert


Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		You are right, when or if the front line stabilizes there will not much be left of the original armies besides their HQ. the subunit rebuild is at this moment of the war no priority. i still have some commanders to sack.

(in reply to jjdenver)
Post #: 109
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/7/2012 11:58:30 AM   
BodyBag


Posts: 69
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert

^ Comrade, i know Stalin sent you. When you leave here tell this son of a snitch that our troops are melting away, that we have now lost over a fifth of our men but face more axis troops than ever before. our defeat is accelerating, LESS MEN THAN EVER BEFORE are facing even more troops! he exactly knows what this means IT IS ABOUT TIME TO STOP LYING TO OURSELF AND finally face the sad truth about our situation: there will soon be no siberia left to put away our experienced commanders!

go tell him this Comrade and be advised on your trip back to fly low and fly by night...


Even Comrade Stalin was in despair.

A little known historical fact is, that Stalin in the dark days of late 1941, offered the whole of White Russia (Ukraine) to Hitler for a peace-agreement.

The Germans looked invincible and the Panzers were closing in on Moscow, so Hitler turned him down. Maybe he should have taken the offer...

Cheers,


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(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 110
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/7/2012 12:03:33 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		I would give them my horses too. I just opened my turn and STAVKA will sack me. they give me three turns, including the present one to impress them or i will have to leave. i send them my stepmother and my wifes horse already.
my daughters just cross the boarder to Iran as we speak. i hope they will reach London soon. i hear it's all fun and games there.

(in reply to BodyBag)
Post #: 111
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/7/2012 12:15:26 PM   
BodyBag


Posts: 69
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert

I would give them my horses too. I just opened my turn and STAVKA will sack me. they give me three turns, including the present one to impress them or i will have to leave. i send them my stepmother and my wifes horse already.
my daughters just cross the boarder to Iran as we speak. i hope they will reach London soon. i hear it's all fun and games there.


Well, chances are you will end up in a ditch somewhere with a bullet in the back of your head, courtesy of NKVD.

Your family will be charged for the cost of the cartridge...


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In politics, stupidity is not a handicap
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(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 112
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/7/2012 12:36:34 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		There are no such chances:

1. I am only here because i am the cousin of the man that used to rob banks with Dschugaschwili.
2. I killed several dozens Kulaks with my bare hands.
3. The axe in Trotzki's head? it was mine.
4. My stepmother looks way younger than she really is.

(in reply to BodyBag)
Post #: 113
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/7/2012 12:46:56 PM   
BodyBag


Posts: 69
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert

There are no such chances:

1. I am only here because i am the cousin of the man that used to rob banks with Dschugaschwili.
2. I killed several dozens Kulaks with my bare hands.
3. The axe in Trotzki's head? it was mine.
4. My stepmother looks way younger than she really is.


If you don't get your sh** together in 6 days, all that will mean NOTHING...

It's a bullet, or Gulag for you my friend


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In politics, stupidity is not a handicap
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(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 114
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/7/2012 1:11:53 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		I hear the socialist advance did not stop in the Gulag: single bed rooms with central heating, warm and cold water, sanitary facilities with ... gasp!... washing machines!
The bullet on the other hand did not nearly do as good. it is basically still the same bullet that killed Olivier De la Rossignol, 1415 in Agincourt.

(in reply to BodyBag)
Post #: 115
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/7/2012 2:29:58 PM   
jjdenver

 

Posts: 1229
Joined: 11/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert
I would give them my horses too. I just opened my turn and STAVKA will sack me.


Well that's vastly disappointing. I hope no one else starts an AAR with that crappy option checked. No more AAR's with the dismissal rule pls. kkthxbai.


< Message edited by jjdenver -- 8/7/2012 2:30:19 PM >

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(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 116
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/7/2012 4:46:18 PM   
Blind Sniper


Posts: 720
Joined: 8/9/2008
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline 		Thanks for the AAR Keunert

quote:

I hope no one else starts an AAR with that crappy option checked.


I think because we are not so expert about the game, in my AAR Krupp is give me a good challenge.

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(in reply to jjdenver)
Post #: 117
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/7/2012 5:08:14 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		Don't judge the game by this aar. my soviet play was bad. there is a lot to do better. and there is also a card available that gives you more time.

my strongest army, 5th TA made not a single successfull attack, that sums the quality of my first soviet game pretty much up. I just begin to realize how much organizational problems the soviets have at the start. but i did not change a single commander, nor did i reassign units from the high level HQ to the Army HQ. this lead to a lot more penalties than necessary. and then there is also a little luck involved: during ten turns we got bad weather only once and i think despite my mistakes i got more than a fair share of penalties during the first five turns.
i never played the soviets before, neither vs ai nor pbem. there is a lot to learn to do them justice. Krupp is on the right track, i think he is doing well.

< Message edited by Keunert -- 8/7/2012 5:20:25 PM >

(in reply to Blind Sniper)
Post #: 118
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/7/2012 7:58:02 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		July 16th 1942, turn 10

Our busy work at the HQ was interrupted when a secretary from Moscow arrived. She gave me a letter from Stalin in person. I cannot quote here in all details but he basically gives me six days to make him believe that i am able to stop the german offensive.

He was in particular furious that wasn't able to hold on Voronezh for another week. His confidence in my abilities reached rock bottom. Stalin didn't even issue any new orders. I am not sure what he is exactly expecting to see in the nex six days. most likely no more retreating. but i am here to avoid a complete defeat of our forces. i will not risk that goal by playing political games.

when the secretary left we continued our work, that is currently all about running east and gather reinforcements.




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(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 119
RE: Case Blue: Keunert(Soviets) vs Olivier(Axis), no O... - 8/7/2012 8:09:47 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 876
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		July 16th 1942, turn 10

After the elimination of the last pockets, our casualty rate dropped remarkably. this is of course paid in squarekilometres of our dear motherland. the last two days our troop level dropped only by 4k men. that's the second best result so far. after the massive reinforcements this turn we hope to see our numbers climb for once. The Axis still has no losses.




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(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 120
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