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RE: The BAOR

 
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RE: The BAOR - 4/13/2013 11:58:12 PM   
Gunnulf

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 10/31/2012
Status: offline 		Further to above on 1 QDG. Arm Recce Regt orbat in 1990 listed as:

RHQ 4 Sultan, 4 Spartan, 2 Land Rover FFR
HQ Sqn
LAD REME 1 Sultan, 1 Spartan, 1 Sampson, 1 wheeled recovery vehicle
Sqn HQ 2 Sultan, 1 Spartan, 2 Land Rover FFR
Recce Troop x3 4 Scimitar/Scorpion
GW Troop 4 Striker
Support Troop 4 Spartan
Recce Sqn x4
REME 1 Sampson, 1 Spartan

Generally tough to get exact on unit by unit basis but by the end of 80s much higher proportion of scimitars. Scorpions were not so useful and eventually turrets replaced with that of the Fox armoured car to produce the Sabre CVRT

(in reply to Gunnulf)
Post #: 31
RE: The BAOR - 4/14/2013 12:17:04 AM   
Gunnulf

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 10/31/2012
Status: offline 		You should also be aware of the Battle Group concept or BG.

Basically Arm & Arm Inf units marry up and swap sub units. So from above ORBAT as example:

For 7 Arm Bde
SCOTS DG is challenger
2 RTR is challenger
1 STAFFORDS is warrior

So SCOTS DG & 2 RTR both swap one squadron for one company with 1 STAFFORDS.

SCOTS DG BG will then be 1 x Arm Regt HQ 3 x Arm Sqdn 1 x Arm Inf Coy 1 x Arm Support Sqdn
2 RTR BG will then be 1 x Arm Regt HQ 3 x Arm Sqdn 1 x Arm Inf Coy 1 x Arm Support Sqdn
1 STAFFORDS BG will then 1 x Arm Inf Regt HQ 1 x Arm Inf Coy 2 x Arm Sqdn 1 x Arm Inf Support Coy

All tank heavy, though Staffords less so.

12 Arm Bde:
4 RTR is Chieftain
1 R IRISH is Fv432
1 RGJ is Fv432

4 RTR will then be 1 x Arm Regt HQ 2 x Arm Sqdn 2 x Mech Inf Coy 1 x Arm Support Sqdn
1 R IRISH 1 x Mech Inf Regt HQ 2 x Mech Inf Coy 1 x Arm Sqdn 1 x Mech Inf Support Coy
1 RGJ 1 x Mech Inf Regt HQ 2 x Mech Inf Coy 1 x Arm Sqdn 1 x Mech Inf Support Coy

Doing a similar swap they end up with 1 balanced & 2 Mech heavy battlegroups

22 ARM BDE:
QOH is Chieftain
1 RTR is Chieftain
1 SG is Fv432
2 R ANGLIAN is Fv432

When these four form BGs you end up with 2 tank heavy and 2 mech heavy

Battle groups is the key part of BAOR tactics. Very similar to the US 'Team' concept obviously and not rocket science. BG all also would then have various other attachments from Division and Corps depending on task. You probably already knew this but thought worth mentioning. But in summary battalions and regiments would not operate in their entirety (though sure there would be exceptions to the rule as always ;) )

But overall you can see that the Divisional structure and TOEs is such that the 10 BG's it forms are very varied.

< Message edited by Gunnulf -- 4/14/2013 12:34:24 AM >

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Post #: 32
RE: The BAOR - 4/14/2013 4:07:17 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		British have never fielded whole regiments together preferring to use brigades which consisted of four battalions from different regiments. Again though this is not news I'm sure and I'm only thinking upto WW2..not sure how they do it now as we don't have some many regiments anymore.

Just looking at the post above it looks like it's made of three battalions these days..infact not even sure it's a whole battalion thats mentioned above..seems abit small like one or two coys to small. Though again modern OOB's I've no idea how they work.

< Message edited by wodin -- 4/14/2013 4:11:37 AM >

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Post #: 33
RE: The BAOR - 4/14/2013 12:23:35 PM   
Gunnulf

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 10/31/2012
Status: offline 		As covered above 'Regiments' in British terms applies to battalion sized units of Armour, Artillery, Engineers & Army Aviation.
Infantry units are battalions. Regiment as in 'Royal Anglian Regiment' is strictly administrative for recruitment & training of a group of battalions largely (but not always) based on geographic recruitment area.

Brigades are usually 3 but sometimes 2-4 teeth arm units (btln/regt) plus attached support units and sub-units. However as detailed above in practice within that brigade composite battlegroups are formed for combat purposes. Effectively sub-units (companies & squadrons) will almost always be split and mixed within units on operations in BAOR.


(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 34
RE: The BAOR - 4/14/2013 3:43:05 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Well lets remember they have their own colours and battle honours..they are abit more than an administrative title. It's just unlike other countries where a regiments battalions would fight together in the UK they didn't maybe on a rare occasion two battalions from the regiment would fight in a brigade but on the whole they would be spread out.

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(in reply to Gunnulf)
Post #: 35
RE: The BAOR - 4/14/2013 6:16:42 PM   
Gunnulf

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 10/31/2012
Status: offline 		As an organisation they are administrative organisation pure and simple. Zero combat function. RHQ will be an old retired colonel and a few staff handling admin & recruitment. The colours and battle honours are an important part of the regimental families identity but thats ceremonial. For example the Royal Anglians currently have 1st and 2nd battalions, plus a 3rd Territorial reserve btln. In 1989 there were 3 regular and 3 reserve battalions. There will be some exchange of personnel within this regimental family especially with officers through there career. But essentially they are totally separate entities. There are less now but in '89 there were plenty of regiments with just a single regular battalion. But still with an RHQ for admin. I served with 3 regiments over 14 years as as NCO then as an Officer.

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Post #: 36
RE: The BAOR - 4/14/2013 7:58:12 PM   
Capn Darwin


Posts: 1819
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: online 		A good bit of info. Thanks Gunnulf.

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Post #: 37
RE: The BAOR - 4/14/2013 11:26:47 PM   
Gunnulf

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 10/31/2012
Status: offline 		My pleasure Cap'n, all towards the greater glory of a good product :)

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Post #: 38
RE: The BAOR - 5/12/2013 3:01:26 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 10247
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online 		Please see the thread in the Flash Point Campaigns: Red Storm forums relating to BAOR.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3323864&mpage=1&key=�

All comments and suggestions greatly appreciated.

Good Hunting.

MR

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(in reply to Gunnulf)
Post #: 39
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