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Heavy Industry

 
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Heavy Industry - 7/21/2012 9:56:40 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Just want to make sure I read this right in past forums - Heavy Industy has no bearing on soviet production and there is no reason to withdraw it east?

True statement?
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RE: Heavy Industry - 7/21/2012 10:52:05 PM   
Helpless


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http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3055364

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RE: Heavy Industry - 7/21/2012 11:19:06 PM   
Flaviusx


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The short answer is still no.

The long answer is that supply can become a real problem in 1942 if one or more of these conditions apply:

1. The Red Army gets too big. (And by too big, I mean something crazy like 8 million+. I'm not sure how this can even happen in a PBEM, but it has.)

2. You make too many forts. (These things cost a ton of supply.)

3. You lose too much HI. How much is too much and what is the tipping point? Not sure, I've never hit it.

Basically I've never run into supply problems by ignoring any HI west of Moscow, Voronezh and Rostov. I make sure not to lose any at that point and on, though, and will indeed rail out any and all factories from this point east over the course of the winter. I'm so paranoid I even empty out Stalingrad. There's really no need to lose industry of any sort after 1941.

Disband stuff like crazy. There's a lot of superfluous junk in the Red Army in 1941. Excess HQs, airbases, SUs, etc. The entire pre war mech stuff is a big drain on supply, trucks, and armaments, too, don't go out of your way to preserve those guys, you're better off with their tank brigade/rifle division replacements. Production can be streamlined, too. An austere Red Army is best, don't load it up with frills, concentrate on essentials.



< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 7/21/2012 11:37:18 PM >


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RE: Heavy Industry - 7/22/2012 12:21:08 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Thanks guys, that helps alot. Think I'll see if I can withdraw some HI east of the Dniepr.

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RE: Heavy Industry - 7/22/2012 12:26:04 AM   
gingerbread


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If you skip evacuating the vehicle factories in Kharkov (20 x 6 000 = 120 000 rail pts), you can save 12 HI instead. That's 6 000 to 7 500 supply/turn at the cost of ~5 500 vehicles in total during '42.

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RE: Heavy Industry - 7/22/2012 12:37:14 AM   
Flaviusx


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If you're going to rail out some of that HI, do it in multiples of 4, no more, no less. Otherwise you run into inefficiencies in terms of the production multiplier. (This really needs to be changed, but there it is.)

Personally, I don't find that I have 40,000 rail cap to spare for this early on, not against a good Axis opponent anyways. The rail cost for HI is just ridiculous and ought to go back to the original 5k/point.





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RE: Heavy Industry - 7/22/2012 1:25:33 AM   
Walloc

 

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Didnt i promise Tarhunnas to make a evac guide at some point......

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
If you're going to rail out some of that HI, do it in multiples of 4, no more, no less. Otherwise you run into inefficiencies in terms of the production multiplier. (This really needs to be changed, but there it is.)


Exactly om both accounts.

quote:


Personally, I don't find that I have 40,000 rail cap to spare for this early on, not against a good Axis opponent anyways. The rail cost for HI is just ridiculous and ought to go back to the original 5k/point.


Further tips, when evacing vehicles always do it in even numbers. Multipler in 42+ is 0.55 = 2= 1.1 rounded down to 1, where as 3 is 1.65 rounded down to 1.... Ekstra uneven = always nada (except briefly in 41, but as most are damaged to some extend any ways the production is limited in 41)
If getting Kharkov out do all 20 in one chunck for a bonus +1, 0.55*20 = 11

KV fac in Leningrad, it generally if even remotely pressured evac wise, it pays to take just 1 out. Ususally u got spades of KVs and they dont help u much, to few in units to matter much IMO, but it in 44 it will be 50% of ur IS production.

Dont get the BA10 fac out it doesnt upgrade and stop production in sep or some thing 41. No disrupt production just get what u can, while left in Leningrad.

T 50 Leningrad get 1 out will be fully repaired and expanded by time making its changes to T 34/42(asuming u do this like turn 3-4-5)

Yak 6 dont take out, piece of crap u want enemy to take but if u do take only 1 out.

Lagg 3-18 fac in Taganron(i cant spell). If u get 1 point out, in july 41 it will be fully repair and near fully expanded when it gets operational in aug 42.

IL 10 and many other research facs, just get 1 point out, it will be repaired and expanded when it gets operational.

By personal petpevee. IL-2 u cant afford to lose them. If u in turn 3/4 move all 4 out with 4/5 out they will be repaired and starts to expand come start of 42(when the hardcoded we just suck feature is removed) and at only 40k ish RR cap. Doing it later will come at 1 of 2 costs. the fully repaired date aka time facs start to expand is pushed to significantly later as they fac is bigger and u take out a smaller part which limits production in 42 or it costs mega much in RR to take out a large portion. This is the sweet spot if u ask me, tho i know its early to use RR on em. So it is debateble.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 7/22/2012 2:00:12 PM >

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RE: Heavy Industry - 7/22/2012 2:26:26 AM   
IdahoNYer


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thanks guys, great stuff!

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RE: Heavy Industry - 7/22/2012 4:12:24 AM   
Pelton

 

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I beleive you need to with draw 10 HI. If you lose Moscow your done anyways because you lose 700,000 men over 52 turns(manpower crunch).

It does matter and 7.5 to 8 million men armys are possible and I have fought and crushed/lost to them in more then a few games.

Flaviusx knows his poop about SHC.

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RE: Heavy Industry - 7/22/2012 5:15:07 PM   
hfarrish


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I always like evacing the Kiev HI - generally around Turn 4...you have a lot of rail cap at that point and not so much is threatened, so it seems relatively painless, and that gets you almost halfway to the 10 that need to evaced to be safe. Plus its 4, so the perfect multiple as Flav mentioned.

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RE: Heavy Industry - 7/27/2012 2:03:53 AM   
AFV


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Walloc, aren't there more factories that quite producing and are not worth evacuating?

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RE: Heavy Industry - 7/27/2012 2:05:41 AM   
hfarrish


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I think Walloc has admirably covered things here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3148679

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RE: Heavy Industry - 7/27/2012 2:10:38 AM   
Walloc

 

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Ignore, shouldnt be hard.

< Message edited by Walloc -- 7/27/2012 2:14:34 AM >

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