RE: All things Olympics and London 2012

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> RE: All things Olympics and London 2012

Page: << < prev 14 15 [16] 17 18 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/12/2012 1:13:50 PM

Orm

Posts: 11121
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hearing post race interviews with an athlete wearing a GB vest and talking in an American accent for example, when there is no justification other than money, is just wrong. Does anyone know what the rules are?

If you mean Shana Cox (400m) although she was born and raised in the US, both her parents are British so she would always have been eligible. You might speculate she 'changed allegiance' because she wasn't good enough for the US team, but I don't think money had much to do with it. The rules do seem rather more flexible than, say, soccer, though, where once the choice is made, it's made - although even then you can play junior and senior international football for different countries; a fair few have played junior for England but selected somewhere else (usually Wales or Ireland) at senior level.

It's not really an abuse if people qualify for the passport on grounds of parentage, IMHO.

Warspite1

No that is not who I was writing about specifically. If an athlete has a blood tie to a country then I have abolutely no problem with that at all. The reason I asked if anyone knew the rule was that:
1. A few years ago there was a Kenyan competing for Denmark
2. There are a few Africans competing for Bahrain this time around
3. We have a triple jumper born in Cuba, who has represented Cuba, Sudan and now GB at the Olympics. She has recently married a Scotsman, but that does not make her British - passport or not.

I am afraid this might become to political. So I just ask you to ponder on this. Please do not become to upset with me.

We live in a time where many people flee from their home countries and try to make a new life in a new country. Many move to another country to get a brighter future. Most Americans have ancestors who did this.

Should those who move to new countries never be able to compete for their new country? Even if they have become citizen in their new country? They might not be able to compete for the country they were born in because they would be considered traitors and such.

Recently Sweden has received more than 1 million immigrants (out of a 9.5 million population). Should they not be eligible to compete for Sweden? Ever?

I've seen many athletes who has moved to Sweden and are proud to compete for their new home country. And as I understand it most of them has not been bought (none?). We could not afford to buy their services anyway.

As a side note I want to mention that more than 1 million Swedes has immigrated to US. I am sure they are all proud Americans. Some might even fondly remember their Swedish heritage.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 451

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/12/2012 1:34:43 PM

warspite1

Posts: 27818
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hearing post race interviews with an athlete wearing a GB vest and talking in an American accent for example, when there is no justification other than money, is just wrong. Does anyone know what the rules are?

If you mean Shana Cox (400m) although she was born and raised in the US, both her parents are British so she would always have been eligible. You might speculate she 'changed allegiance' because she wasn't good enough for the US team, but I don't think money had much to do with it. The rules do seem rather more flexible than, say, soccer, though, where once the choice is made, it's made - although even then you can play junior and senior international football for different countries; a fair few have played junior for England but selected somewhere else (usually Wales or Ireland) at senior level.

It's not really an abuse if people qualify for the passport on grounds of parentage, IMHO.

Warspite1

No that is not who I was writing about specifically. If an athlete has a blood tie to a country then I have abolutely no problem with that at all. The reason I asked if anyone knew the rule was that:
1. A few years ago there was a Kenyan competing for Denmark
2. There are a few Africans competing for Bahrain this time around
3. We have a triple jumper born in Cuba, who has represented Cuba, Sudan and now
GB at the Olympics. She has recently married a Scotsman, but that does not make her British - passport or not.

I am afraid this might become to political. So I just ask you to ponder on this. Please do not become to upset with me.

We live in a time where many people flee from their home countries and try to make a new life in a new country. Many move to another country to get a brighter future. Most Americans have ancestors who did this.

Should those who move to new countries never be able to compete for their new country? Even if they have become citizen in their new country? They might not be able to compete for the country they were born in because they would be considered traitors and such.

Recently Sweden has received more than 1 million immigrants (out of a 9.5 million population). Should they not be eligible to compete for Sweden? Ever?

I've seen many athletes who has moved to Sweden and are proud to compete for their new home country. And as I understand it most of them has not been bought (none?). We could not afford to buy their services anyway.

As a side note I want to mention that more than 1 million Swedes has immigrated to US. I am sure they are all proud Americans. Some might even fondly remember their Swedish heritage.

warspite1

Orm, what I am against is "rent an athlete" not the circumstances you describe - which, for the avoidance of doubt, I have no problem with. The triple jumper competing for three countries being a prime example of the rules being too lax and open to abuse.

At the moment it seems East Africans make the best distance runners and peeps from
the Carribean, the best sprinters. I am concerned that countries will be tempted to "buy" success by dishing out passports for cash incentives if the rules are insufficiently tight.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 8/12/2012 1:57:25 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Lord Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 452

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/12/2012 2:08:34 PM

warspite1

Posts: 27818
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

Radic202 you will be pleased with the result of the men's marathon - the winner Kiprotich is Ugandan and he has won what is only the 2nd ever gold medal for his country

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Lord Nelson October 1805

(in reply to radic202)

Post #: 453

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/12/2012 2:25:15 PM

warspite1

Posts: 27818
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

Bad start for Freddie Evas in the boxing.....

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Lord Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 454

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/12/2012 2:29:20 PM

warspite1

Posts: 27818
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

....all to do in the last round 10-5 down....

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Lord Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 455

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/12/2012 3:00:10 PM

warspite1

Posts: 27818
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

Comfortable for the Kazak in the end - a very good boxer. Silver for Evans.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Lord Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 456

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/12/2012 3:38:08 PM

warspite1

Posts: 27818
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

ANTHONY JOSHUA!

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Lord Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 457

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/12/2012 3:54:00 PM

warspite1

Posts: 27818
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

Great performance in the final boxing bout from Anthony Joshua. The Italian fought well but was rocking at the end. Well done GB - three golds, a silver and a bronze. Huzzah!

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Lord Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 458

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/12/2012 6:21:14 PM

warspite1

Posts: 27818
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

A nice way to finish off - silver for Samantha Murray in the Modern Pentathlon. Gold to Lithuania - Laura Asadauskaite (?) who will be appearing on the Australian Beauties site shortly

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Lord Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 459

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/12/2012 6:24:36 PM

Orm

Posts: 11121
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

warspite1

Orm, what I am against is "rent an athlete" not the circumstances you describe - which, for the avoidance of doubt, I have no problem with. The triple jumper competing for three countries being a prime example of the rules being too lax and open to abuse.

At the moment it seems East Africans make the best distance runners and peeps from
the Carribean, the best sprinters. I am concerned that countries will be tempted to "buy" success by dishing out passports for cash incentives if the rules are insufficiently tight.

I know what you meant. And I agree with you that it is a problem.

But I think that this might be hard to solve this since I believe that if the rules are very strict then it will be the honest ones that gets in trouble. The "cheaters" will know how to circumvent the rules.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 460

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/12/2012 6:29:38 PM

Orm

Posts: 11121
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

All Swedish reporters compete with each other to say positive things about the London Olympics. This is the first games ever that I heard them this positive. The positive, enthusiastic audience have impressed even our veterans.

Way to go London. Lets enjoy a great ending now.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 461

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/12/2012 6:33:18 PM

warspite1

Posts: 27818
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

What the hell am I supposed to do now the Olympics are over?? At least I can get back to my books and games now

Really enjoyed this two week festival of sport

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Lord Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 462

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/12/2012 7:25:35 PM

Posts: 1203
Joined: 8/12/2000
From: Monroe, LA, USA
Status: offline

The immigrant athlete situation works both ways for the US. We have immigrant athletes from other countries running for us, after obtaining citizenship. And we also have dual citizenship athletes who are basically American, born and grew up and lived all their lives in America, but compete for some other country due to dual citizenship laws in the other country. They often do this because it is easier to qualify for the team in the other country, especially a small country. I think that is gaming the system and using the dual citizenship as a convenience, since they usually do it because they cannot qualify on merit for the US team, but it doesn't upset me. The athlete must also still meet some kind of qualifying standard for most or all Olympic sports, so these are top quality athletes.

Distance runner Bernard Lagat of the US is one such athlete. He was born in Kenya and competed for Kenya in the 2004 Olympics and then announced he had become a naturalized citizen (legal citizen not born in the US) of the US. Since Kenya doesn't allow dual citizenship by law, he ran afoul of some of the rules and served a one-year ban from international competition. Now he competes for the US. he finished 4th in the 5000 meters. So it can get complicated.

Then there are people like Guor Marial, from South Sudan. He is living in the US after escaping from South Sudan, but not a citizen. He is not technically a South Sudan citizen, and South Sudan is not yet part of the Olympic movement. So he is running as one of I think four Olympic competitors without a country, running under the Olympic flag. The IOC apparently tried to get him to run under the flag of Sudan, but he refused.

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 463

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/12/2012 11:59:49 PM

warspite1

Posts: 27818
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

Wow - and as the Olympic flame dies, so GB & NI finish 1 and 2 in the USPGA.........which was nice

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Lord Nelson October 1805

(in reply to JW)

Post #: 464

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/13/2012 12:18:09 AM

british exil

Posts: 1700
Joined: 5/4/2006
From: Lower Saxony Germany
Status: offline

What a brilliant show.

I am not an emotional person, but the show put on really stirred me. Will feel a bit empty tomorrow.
No more olympics, no more Team GB.

Was a great 2 weeks, lots of surprising results and a few upsets.

W1 what is next on the agenda?

Mat

We did keep our 3rd place in the medals, Russia upseting Brazil in the Volleyball was a surprise.

< Message edited by british exil -- 8/13/2012 12:19:12 AM >

_____________________________

"It is not enough to expect a man to pay for the best, you must also give him what he pays for." Alfred Dunhill

WitE,UV,AT,ATG,FoF,FPCRS

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 465

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/13/2012 1:11:21 AM

Chickenboy

Posts: 19981
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

What the hell am I supposed to do now the Olympics are over?? At least I can get back to my books and games now

Really enjoyed this two week festival of sport

Nicely done, you lot. The Britishers are excellent hosts and put on a good show. Jolly jolly good.

Glad to see that the Britishers picked up the 'home field advantage' too. Home grown nationalistic pride in athletic competition can be useful. The Brits will face some depressing GNP and other economic news in the next few years (heck, most of us will), so I'm more than willing to let them have a happy moment. Isn't that a major function of the games though? Draw the focus to friendly competition and exploits of one's best athletes and away from the workaday humdrum politics, recessions, inflation, and so forth. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing at all.

With all that said, Warspite1, I find it curious that you have cited the medal count of the Britishers more than once in this thread. I thought only gold medal count(s) were worthy of the rankings?

I think the other take home message here is that USA=#1! We're number 1! We're number 1! USA! USA! USA!

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 8/13/2012 1:12:42 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 466

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/13/2012 1:22:12 AM

Chickenboy

Posts: 19981
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

Reviewing historic medal counts, I'm struck with just how consistent the American performance has been. Aberrant performances in 1984 (174 total medals) due in large part to the Soviet block's boycotting, but otherwise, 90-110 medals going back to the 1960s. Several years in the #70s then. The modern nadir was 1936 with only 56 medals. I wonder what was going on there that we had such a relatively low medal count?

245 medals in St. Louis in 1904 and 103 in Mexico in 1968!

Our 2012 total of 104 is a good to solid showing, befitting our athletic programs-a tribute to a perpetual excellence in athletic sportsmanship.

_____________________________

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 467

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/13/2012 1:23:47 AM

Chickenboy

Posts: 19981
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

The real disappointment-in terms of per capita performance-has got to be India. Only 6 medals for a country of 1.2 billion? What's going on there?

_____________________________

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 468

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/13/2012 1:28:57 AM

Walloc

Posts: 3121
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline

Thx for some great games Britain. Didnt see the final show, had some other engagement.

Rio next,

Rasmus

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 469

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/13/2012 7:38:03 AM

warspite1

Posts: 27818
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

What the hell am I supposed to do now the Olympics are over?? At least I can get back to my books and games now

Really enjoyed this two week festival of sport

With all that said, Warspite1, I find it curious that you have cited the medal count of the Britishers more than once in this thread. I thought only gold medal count(s) were worthy of the rankings?

warspite1

Eh? Clearly you think that because we compile our table based on the number of golds first (if tied on golds you look at no. of silvers and if tied, the number of bronze) a silver or bronze in the Olympics is unimportant to us?. Our way of compiling the table is not right, its not wrong (the IOC do not formally recognise medal tables) its just the way we do it. You have your way.

To win gold is the pinnacle; i.e. to be Olympic champion. That said, winning any medal is a great achievement - hell, just qualifying for the Olympics is pretty special. What, has Michael Phelps flushed his silver and bronze down the toilet?

I referred to total medal count because obviously its nice to get as many medals as possible - when we exceeded out target of 48, I thought getting to a nice round 60 was a good target to aim for.

Edit: spelling and removal of some agitated comment.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 8/13/2012 7:26:22 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Lord Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 470

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/13/2012 9:12:30 AM

Josh

Posts: 2667
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline

And what a great show it was ...

blimey, glued to the screen on many a night. The ending ceremony was special, the moment the Olypmic flame was extinguished the whole stadium went quite, very impressive.

So now that's all said and done, now on to the Paralympic games! Starts in two weeks time. Does that deserve a thread of its own or shall we continue with this one?

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 471

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/13/2012 6:05:19 PM

Walloc

Posts: 3121
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline

Gratz to NZ on a belated Gold. Wonder how much more of this we will see.

Rasmus

(in reply to Josh)

Post #: 472

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/13/2012 7:08:24 PM

warspite1

Posts: 27818
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

And what a great show it was ... �blimey, glued to the screen on many a night. The ending ceremony was special, the moment the Olypmic flame was extinguished the whole stadium went quite, very impressive.

So now that's all said and done, now on to the Paralympic games! Starts in two weeks time. Does that deserve a thread of its own or shall we continue with this one?

Warspite1

Lets stick with this one - after all its still London 2012 and I hope to continue with the Olympic facts until the Paralympics are finished.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Lord Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Josh)

Post #: 473

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/13/2012 7:12:48 PM

warspite1

Posts: 27818
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

Gratz to NZ on a belated Gold. Wonder how much more of this we will see.

Rasmus

Warspite1

Funny I remember that final well because I a) I was rooting for the Kiwi (at that time there was a slim chance they would finish above Oz in the table) and b) my youngest daughter kept telling me the Belarus athlete was NOT a girl....

I hope there won't be much more - the athletes were warned this would be the most strenuously tested games ever - all medalists would be tested, plus others (I think 4th and 5th) plus random testing.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Lord Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Walloc)

Post #: 474

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/13/2012 7:15:47 PM

warspite1

Posts: 27818
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil

W1 what is next on the agenda?

warspite1

Well we've got the paralympics. How about some sort of competition for the upcoming footie season?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Lord Nelson October 1805

(in reply to british exil)

Post #: 475

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/13/2012 8:28:12 PM

Walloc

Posts: 3121
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil

W1 what is next on the agenda?

warspite1

Well we've got the paralympics. How about some sort of competition for the upcoming footie season?

I know u dont mean that kinda footie, but didnt u promise a football the american kinda competition to some one?

Rasmus

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 476

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/13/2012 8:43:11 PM

warspite1

Posts: 27818
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil

W1 what is next on the agenda?

warspite1

Well we've got the paralympics. How about some sort of competition for the upcoming footie season?

I know u dont mean that kinda footie, but didnt u promise a football the american kinda competition to some one?

Rasmus

Warspite1

Certainly did - rogo727 said he was going to organise something. He appears to have gone AWOL though. If he re-appears then I'm up for it.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Lord Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Walloc)

Post #: 477

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/13/2012 8:47:13 PM

Josh

Posts: 2667
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline

http://www.london2012.com/paralympics/

Biggest crowd *ever* expected, and that's a good thing.

(in reply to Walloc)

Post #: 478

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/13/2012 9:10:12 PM

Orm

Posts: 11121
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

Gratz to NZ on a belated Gold. Wonder how much more of this we will see.

Rasmus

Warspite1

Funny I remember that final well because I a) I was rooting for the Kiwi (at that time there was a slim chance they would finish above Oz in the table) and b) my youngest daughter kept telling me the Belarus athlete was NOT a girl....

I hope there won't be much more - the athletes were warned this would be the most strenuously tested games ever - all medalists would be tested, plus others (I think 4th and 5th) plus random testing.

If I were you I would make a point of agreeing with your youngest as she is obviously right.

A Swedish retired athlete recently wrote in his column that back in the 80s he was surprised when he arrived to a major track and field gala and they asked him if he could take a drug test and if he did he would get 500$ extra. He then found out that this was standard practice. Therefore I am pleased that these games are "the most strenuously tested games ever".

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 479

RE: All things Olympics and London 2012 - 8/13/2012 9:38:09 PM

warspite1

Posts: 27818
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

Gratz to NZ on a belated Gold. Wonder how much more of this we will see.

Rasmus

Warspite1

Funny I remember that final well because I a) I was rooting for the Kiwi (at that time there was a slim chance they would finish above Oz in the table) and b) my youngest daughter kept telling me the Belarus athlete was NOT a girl....

I hope there won't be much more - the athletes were warned this would be the most strenuously tested games ever - all medalists would be tested, plus others (I think 4th and 5th) plus random testing.

If I were you I would make a point of agreeing with your youngest as she is obviously right.

A Swedish retired athlete recently wrote in his column that back in the 80s he was surprised when he arrived to a major track and field gala and they asked him if he could take a drug test and if he did he would get 500$ extra. He then found out that this was standard practice. Therefore I am pleased that these games are "the most strenuously tested games ever".

Warspite1

I watched an interesting interview with Sharon Davies (swimming silver medalist 1980 Moscow) who was speaking about the East German swimming cheats. She spoke really well about the issue, she did not appear bitter or angry - what anger there was was directed at the IOC for not doing something about what was so obvious - the incredible performance was limited to GDR females not males, GDR female swimmers took 11 out of 13 golds, the time improvements were huge etc etc.

Davies said both she and her opponent were victims. She felt sorry for the girl - Petra Schneider - that beat her to the 400-metre freestyle Olympic title. The GDR swimmer "won" by 11 [ELEVEN] seconds, but has been wracked by ill-health, a product of the drugs she was fed. Almost all GDR swimmers have suffered too. While she was robbed of Olympic gold, Davies felt lucky that she at least managed to claim the silver and was able to find fame and fortune thereafter.

But she mentioned Ann Osgerby, a talented 17-year old who, at the same games, came fourth in the 100-metre butterfly; no medal, no glory, no glittering career post swimming. After all her hard work, training and sacrifice, who beat her to the Olympic crown, silver and bronze? Three East German drug cheats....... Very sad

Incidently, the GDR swimmer that "won" the bronze in that race - Christiane Knacke - was the first to athlete to volunteer to return her illegally won medal. She sued the doctors that fed her the steroids, drugs that turned some of her bones to "crystal".

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Lord Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 480