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RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!!

 
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RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 7/29/2012 7:30:10 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6041
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
On the subject of forts. They give poeple a false cents of CV value/hope.

A line of 20-40 cv is really jusy a stack of 8 to 16 cv, vs the right mix of pioneers/artillary/planes. They can be routed by simply getting a single retreat then sending a panzer unit behind the line.

Don't get me wrong forts are a huge help defending, but at the point of attack they are 100% usless. Only reserve mode/artillary/air support will help defend at the enemy point of attack.

Forts only help hold the quite areas of the front from attack.



_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 31
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 7/29/2012 9:42:25 PM   
Seminole


Posts: 493
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

Only reserve mode/artillary/air support will help defend at the enemy point of attack.


You left out terrain. Natures forts matter, engineers, artillery, etc. can't reduce their value.

Man made forts aren't useless, they also force the attacker to concentrate their efforts. Pioneers aren't unlimited. Aren't you more likely to make a deliberate attack against a heavily fortified hex? That costs more MP, and slows down your offensive.

The way to use forts isn't to create razor straight lines across the map irrespective of terrain, but to space them in critical spots so that they allow for increasing fort values of the six hexes around them as well before they're on the front line.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 32
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 7/29/2012 9:57:27 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3051
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

quote:

Only reserve mode/artillary/air support will help defend at the enemy point of attack.


You left out terrain. Natures forts matter, engineers, artillery, etc. can't reduce their value.


While in it self true Seminole, the way modified CV works, the modifier u gets in doubling(or what ever) is also the same counting against u for every element disrupted/damaged/destroyed. Having, pure stylized example, 50 elements disrupted/damaged/destroyed in clear removing 5 modified CV would be in light woods assuming same 50 elements are affected equally remove 10 modified CV.

So while u get initally doubled. The reality is, not counting the fact that terrain lowing firepower effects, u also lose twice as much per disrupted/damaged/destroyed in modified CV and since its modified CV that counts for winning and losing. One with some reason can argue u indeed can remove some of the terrain modifier. If there is "nothing" left to double, terrain matters nada.

In essence meaning firepower can trumph terrain given the right cuircumstances.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 7/29/2012 10:03:56 PM >

(in reply to Seminole)
Post #: 33
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 7/29/2012 10:23:41 PM   
Pelton

 

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Joined: 4/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

quote:

Only reserve mode/artillary/air support will help defend at the enemy point of attack.


You left out terrain. Natures forts matter, engineers, artillery, etc. can't reduce their value.


While in it self true Seminole, the way modified CV works, the modifier u gets in doubling(or what ever) is also the same counting against u for every element disrupted/damaged/destroyed. Having, pure stylized example, 50 elements disrupted/damaged/destroyed in clear removing 5 modified CV would be in light woods assuming same 50 elements are affected equally remove 10 modified CV.

So while u get initally doubled. The reality is, not counting the fact that terrain lowing firepower effects, u also lose twice as much per disrupted/damaged/destroyed in modified CV and since its modified CV that counts for winning and losing. One with some reason can argue u indeed can remove some of the terrain modifier. If there is "nothing" left to double, terrain matters nada.

In essence meaning firepower can trumph terrain given the right cuircumstances.

Kind regards,

Rasmus


Hehehe nice reply to the pt.

There is not a single hex that can't be taken by the right combo of elements.

If you know the right combos it will require less units and enable you to attack more hexes per turn and win more attacks per turn then others.

The % and effects can snow ball over 4+ turns.


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 34
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 7/29/2012 10:54:00 PM   
Seminole


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Of course if everything is disrupted/damaged/destroyed the defender loses, but everything that isn't disrupted/damaged/destroyed still has its CV increased by the terrain.

quote:

There is not a single hex that can't be taken by the right combo of elements.


Point is MORE elements are required by the attacker to take hexes that have terrain modifiers, all things being equal.

Whereas you might use a hasty attack on a rifle division sitting in the clear, if it sitting in a swamp with a level 3 fort, you're not using a hasty. You're going to have to bring more firepower to bear, or go around, which also costs more MP.

The point isn't always to stop the attacker, but to slow, steer and focus the attacker.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 35
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 7/30/2012 12:02:41 AM   
hfarrish


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Terrain is great, forts are not if the enemy is trying to take a hex...either way, however, it is somewhat academic as in '41 at least, a German player who knows what he is doing can pretty much take whatever he wants...the only variable is whether you do or don't get your army annihilated in the process, IMO.

(in reply to Seminole)
Post #: 36
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/2/2012 2:49:03 AM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 10
German Arm PTs in pool=
German Manpower in pool=
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 =
Russian losses this turn: 126,000 Total dead: 1,468,000
Russian OOB: 4,643,000
A net gain of: -16,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket: 10
GHC OOB: 3,444,000
GHC net OOB change: -10,000


AGN: Leningrad is completely cut of and forces rush south towards Moscow.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 37
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/2/2012 2:49:47 AM   
Pelton

 

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Joined: 4/9/2006
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AGC: Driving east crushing all resistance vs. reserve activation or not.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 38
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/2/2012 2:50:40 AM   
Pelton

 

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AGS: Pocket wiped out, SHC retreats to next river line. 1 HQB is done and panzers cross the major river between D,Z towns. Basically going to out flank his river defenses next turn and force a generally retreat. 4 Panzer divisions will start heading for Tula.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 39
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/2/2012 2:51:56 AM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 11
German Arm PTs in pool=
German Manpower in pool=
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 =
Russian losses this turn: 65,000 Total dead: 1,533,000
Russian OOB: 4,704,000
A net gain of: 61,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket: 10
GHC OOB: 3,448,000
GHC net OOB change: 4,000

4,704,000 on turn 11 heheh.

AGN: More infantry get to the jump of line, a few divisions breach the first line of defenses. 16 panzer units are at max gas and all 3 HQ’s.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 40
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/2/2012 2:52:53 AM   
Pelton

 

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AGC: Simply smashes through 2 lines if forts like butter and a few panzer units exploit another 3 miles.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 41
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/2/2012 2:53:31 AM   
Pelton

 

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AGS: Breaks out and drives 160 miles out flanking all the southern fort lines, allot of fuel dropped. 5 Divisions are about to assault Odessa and the Italians take the Crimea land bridge and will start digging in for winter. They will flip rail hexes so there is zero chance of a SHC offensive out of this area.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 42
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/2/2012 2:58:15 AM   
A game


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You would have to say its looking very unlikely Moscow will be held till winter at this stage, would the best Soviet strategy be to pull back, preserve the army and just give up Moscow? There does seem to be an obsession with holding Moscow at all costs, Im sure I would also fall into this trap myself in these circumstances.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 43
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/2/2012 3:19:41 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: A game

You would have to say its looking very unlikely Moscow will be held till winter at this stage, would the best Soviet strategy be to pull back, preserve the army and just give up Moscow? There does seem to be an obsession with holding Moscow at all costs, Im sure I would also fall into this trap myself in these circumstances.


I just finished turn 14. Another crappy weather turn and Moscow will more then likly hold.

SHC strategy is very good so far. I am guessing what M60 and MT stategys have been.

The 2 mud turns were huge. If mud comes early Moscow will hold for sure.

SHC loses have been very lt, I am grinding over 100k per turn. GHC morale is amazing high, but I have to keep it that way over the winter which will not be easy vs this huge of and army.

Kinda happy I am playing this game before meeting MT.

Fun game for sure.

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to A game)
Post #: 44
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/2/2012 3:27:55 AM   
A game


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Interesting as it seems from your positions at turn 11 you would have had a great opportunity to create a massive pocket before winter if the Soviets had stuck to their defensive lines near moscow, anyway looking forward to seeing more turns!

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 45
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/2/2012 1:37:05 PM   
Klydon


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HFarrish is a good opponent. I locked horns with him way back when the forts used to grow like weeds. I have been following this AAR with interest for sure.

Sounds like the GHC needs to get some help with the weather dice. :D

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 46
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/2/2012 2:14:32 PM   
Pelton

 

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Joined: 4/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: A game

Interesting as it seems from your positions at turn 11 you would have had a great opportunity to create a massive pocket before winter if the Soviets had stuck to their defensive lines near moscow, anyway looking forward to seeing more turns!


SHC simply retreats to the next line with a screen if it looks like a pocket is possible by the GHC. Not many chances for pockets and battles per turn has been very low until this turn.

The 2 mud turns slowed advanves and gave SHC and extra 2 turns to rail out industry, save units from encirlement and time to dig.

Random weather is a huge help for sure at the start of 41. Not sure if the effects will be balanced out in fall or spring of 42.



_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to A game)
Post #: 47
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/2/2012 3:57:42 PM   
Scook_99

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 6/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton


quote:

ORIGINAL: A game

Interesting as it seems from your positions at turn 11 you would have had a great opportunity to create a massive pocket before winter if the Soviets had stuck to their defensive lines near moscow, anyway looking forward to seeing more turns!


SHC simply retreats to the next line with a screen if it looks like a pocket is possible by the GHC. Not many chances for pockets and battles per turn has been very low until this turn.

The 2 mud turns slowed advanves and gave SHC and extra 2 turns to rail out industry, save units from encirlement and time to dig.

Random weather is a huge help for sure at the start of 41. Not sure if the effects will be balanced out in fall or spring of 42.





In your game here, it is a nice balancer for a longer game. A snow turn in the middle of blizzard does not balance out the mud you can get in the first seventeen turns, but one in December can be helpful. You can catch up on the back end in May, where in non-random you have the alternating mud - clear turns. You are slightly more likely to get consecutive clear turns, which make for a really long summer. Funny thing in 1943 on as German, you are hoping for that mud turn at times.

Good game so far.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 48
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/2/2012 4:06:10 PM   
821Bobo


Posts: 446
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline
There is no chance for snow in December(and maybe January too) but if you are lucky, you may have some snow turns instead of mud in October/November.

_____________________________


(in reply to Scook_99)
Post #: 49
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/2/2012 5:34:22 PM   
hfarrish


Posts: 743
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline

Having played a few games with random weather I actually think the Germans have gotten off pretty easily here (barring mud over Moscow now, which would be huge). Yes, there was one turn with full mud, but the second mud turn was only in the far South Soviet Zone (as I recall) and really only impacted the area from Dnepetrovosk South, where little was occurring at the time.

I have seen other games with 3 mud turns (not necessarily full mud but impacting key sectors)...now that's a kick in the pants for the German.

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 50
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/7/2012 10:36:05 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6041
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 12
German Arm PTs in pool=
German Manpower in pool=
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 =
Russian losses this turn: 95,000 Total dead: 1,628,000
Russian OOB: 4,785,000
A net gain of: 81,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket: 10
GHC OOB: 3,434,000
GHC net OOB change:-1 4,000


AGN: Just setting up winter lines ect.

AGC: 30 miles from Moscow in center. AGN is rushing troops to NW of Moscow. Advancing about 30 to 40 miles per week.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 8/7/2012 10:37:04 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to hfarrish)
Post #: 51
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/7/2012 10:39:35 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6041
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGS: Tring to turn flank still. Odessa about to get assaulted, not sure why SHC is wasting so many troops?

I pull back winter forses to Odessa to gain some free morale during snow, then put them up for blizzard.

Objectives in the south are Rostov and to sweep north to gain space and manpower centers.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 52
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/9/2012 11:20:41 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6041
Joined: 4/9/2006
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Turn 13
German Arm PTs in pool=
German Manpower in pool=
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 =
Russian losses this turn: 120,000 Total dead: 1,748,000
Russian OOB: 4,799,000
A net gain of: 14,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,461,000
GHC net OOB change: 28,000


AGC keeps pushing towards Moscow.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 8/9/2012 11:22:06 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 53
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/9/2012 11:23:18 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6041
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGS looks to flip as many hexes as possible before blizzard.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 54
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/17/2012 11:55:58 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6041
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 14
German Arm PTs in pool=
German Manpower in pool=
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 =
Russian losses this turn: 113,000 Total dead: 1,861,000
Russian OOB: 4,869,000
A net gain of: 70,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket: 9
GHC OOB: 3,439,000
GHC net OOB change: -23,000

Slowly driving on Moscow




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 55
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/17/2012 11:57:03 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6041
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGS is doing good another small pocket




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 56
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/17/2012 11:58:53 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6041
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 15
German Arm PTs in pool=
German Manpower in pool=
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 =
Russian losses this turn: 133,000 Total dead: 1,994,000
Russian OOB: 4,869,000
A net gain of: - 36,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket: 22
GHC OOB: 3,421,000
GHC net OOB change: -18,000

Still driving on Moscow.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 57
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/17/2012 11:59:43 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6041
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGS pockets some more Reds




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 58
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/18/2012 12:01:08 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6041
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 16
German Arm PTs in pool=
German Manpower in pool=
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 =
Russian losses this turn: 56,000 Total dead: 2,046,000
Russian OOB: 5,006,000
A net gain of: - 36,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket: 22
GHC OOB: 3,391,000
GHC net OOB change: -30,000

Moscow is saved by mud, hehehe the “random” weather is so bias to the SHC its kind of funny.


SHC is 5 million strong.

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 59
RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! - 8/18/2012 12:03:05 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6041
Joined: 4/9/2006
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Turn 17
German Arm PTs in pool=
German Manpower in pool=
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 =
Russian losses this turn: 156,000 Total dead: 2,205,000
Russian OOB: 5,006,000
A net gain of: - 36,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket: 6
GHC OOB: 3,400,000
GHC net OOB change: 140,000


AGC gets some clear weather.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

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