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RE: Panzers East!!!!!

 
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RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/6/2012 3:38:04 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

oh my...you can relax and watch the weak russian blizzard wannabe offensive.

all the manpower, industry and around 3.9 mio loses....i doubt if the russian player can recover from that.



The manpower + loses he can easly recover from possibly even the industry, but the killer is the AP crunch. Looks to be atleast 800 ap points thats a set back of 16 turns that can not be made up for. Thats 80 less rifle divisions at the start of the 1942 summer, russian lines will be paper thin and not many units will be filled out. No one can recover from that, because it sets back SHC 1943 offensive and will make it more then likely GHC can stay on the offensive until the spring 1943 as per my M60 game. This means that GHc can hold the lines static for all the rest of 1943 because of reserve mode and Russian forses will need and extra 16 weeks before it can go over to the offensive with its flanks be covered.

If you have been following my AAR's I try and finish off Leningrad after October to get some AP crunch going. Plus get as many pockets late summer as possible. Pocketing units from turns 15-17 is about as easy as it gets other then the openning turn. Rail heads are at the front and infantry. SHC can't run in south because if they do their blizzard will be several turns behind. In the north and center they can't run because of Moscow or Leningrad.

Pocketing units from 15-17 is a nerf to blizzard offensive and sets up the 42 summer offensive. One does not have to take Leningrad/Moscow or Rostov to get the AP crunch going just be near SHC forses by turn 14.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 9/6/2012 3:39:43 PM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 61
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/7/2012 3:41:27 AM   
hfarrish

 

Posts: 522
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		In fairness, it totally depends on how much you spend on C&C - if he got/gets away with spending minimal APs on C&C then in reality it just doesn't matter that much (not saying losing all those units is good - to be sure, I'd prefer not to lose 80 divisions no matter what the situation, just that the impact can be greater or lesser depending on the SHC play style).

As an example, in my and Pelton's game (without giving away too much) I have to create units even at a higher AP cost just to avoid wasting APs above the 500 cap. That situation won't persist but Bobo may find himself there for a while...

< Message edited by hfarrish -- 9/7/2012 3:42:38 AM >

_____________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5q8iMgkg9c&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLD1013999DE2B66AD



(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 62
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/7/2012 9:40:56 AM   
821Bobo

 

Posts: 167
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		Yes, I am in similar situation, however I am not creating rifle divisions for 20APs. I rather create 4 brigades for 20APs and later merge to 2 rifle divisions.

_____________________________


(in reply to hfarrish)
Post #: 63
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/9/2012 9:28:10 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 22
German Arm PTs in pool= 12,000
German Manpower in pool= 48,000
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 = 0
Russian Units Destroyed After Oct 1941 = 15 Div / 7 brigades / 10 SU/ 0 Corp
Total AP lost: 195
Russian losses this turn: 202,000 Total dead: 4,069,000
Russian OOB: 4,087,000
A net gain of: 80,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket: 0
GHC OOB: 3,250,000
GHC net OOB change: 70,000

AGN: SHC forses defending Leningrad all surrender. Blizzard defences are being set-up and panzer units head for cover.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 64
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/9/2012 9:34:26 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		AGC: The 1st Battle for Moscow is won by SHC?

After 6 attacks by russian forses the 7th opens a hole in the german ring.

After much debate GHC desides to with draw from the Moscow area and set up defences for Blizzard. Reclosing the ring around Moscow would not have been that hard but to keep it closed would have been the question.

After having an amazing summer it was just to much of a gamble. I feel I have the upper hand and I would have lost several panzers and several infantry in the coming blizzard.

Great job by Brian using all the tools he had to reopen the pocket.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 65
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/9/2012 9:35:46 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		AGS: Basicly attacking any and every hex possible to cause loses and push a little before blizzard.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 66
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/11/2012 8:46:51 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 1143
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: London
Status: offline 		Indeed particularly if the 400K or so men in pockets meet their expected fate.

_____________________________

web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 67
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/11/2012 11:12:17 AM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1089
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		briliant move by brian. after this terrible loses in the summer losing another 400k would mean simply not any kind of blizzard offensive which earns this name.

(in reply to sillyflower)
Post #: 68
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/16/2012 2:31:07 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 27
German Arm PTs in pool= 89,000
German Manpower in pool= 118,000
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed After Oct 1941 = 15 Div / 7 brigades / 10 SU/ 0 Corp
Total AP lost: 195
Russian losses this turn: 000,000 Total dead: 4,237,000
Russian OOB: 4,287,000
A net gain of: 000,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket:
German losses this turn: 103,000 Total dead: 934,000
GHC OOB: 2,960,000
GHC net OOB change: 000,000

The first 2 turns of blizzard have been ok so far. Looks like AGC will lose 1 division. The 1st turn SHC
Retreats: 63
Helds: 9

a good turn for sure, but this past turn was a bad one
Retreats: 25
Helds: 13

With heavy loses I just done think SHC has the troops to keep up a steady attack as Bobo was able to do.

AGN The finns are getting to front and german units shifting south to 2x and 3x stack. So I expect AGN to hold the lines come January at lastest.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 69
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/16/2012 2:33:10 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		AGC is with drawing 2 hexs a turn until more infantry from AGN is shifted south, but I expect to be some wheres near land bridge by end of blizzard.

25 panzer units are under cover for winter. Morale is amazing high in all units.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 70
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/16/2012 2:33:58 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		AGS withdrawing 2 hexes a turn with no issues so far.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 71
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/19/2012 1:25:09 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 28

Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed After Oct 1941 = 15 Div / 7 brigades / 10 SU/ 0 Corp
Total AP lost: 195
Russian losses this turn: 43,000 Total dead: 4,288,000
Russian OOB: 4,287,000
A net gain of: 84,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket:
German losses this turn: 89,000 Total dead: 1,023,000
GHC OOB: 2,960,000
GHC net OOB change: -76,000

Retreats: 18
Helds: 21

GHC had one attack in Crimea, pushing back SHC again. Over-all a very good turn for GHC

AGN is going to hold lines this turn.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 72
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/19/2012 1:25:56 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		AGC will start to stiffen resistance next turn.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 73
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/19/2012 1:26:41 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		AGS next turn will try and stiffen resistance next turn.

Slavs are cut off. That’s 2 divisions lost so far.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 74
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/20/2012 10:21:08 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 29

Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed After Oct 1941 = 15 Div / 7 brigades / 10 SU/ 0 Corp
Total AP lost: 195
Russian losses this turn: 30,000 Total dead: 4,318,000
Russian OOB: 4,388,000
A net gain of: 101,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket:
German losses this turn: 77,000 Total dead: 1,100,000
GHC OOB: 2,862,000
GHC net OOB change: -98,000

Retreats: 12
Helds: 16

AGN is basicly holding now.

AGC is still falling back but only a hex a turn, forses are being sent to area so GHC can hold the line soon.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 75
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/20/2012 10:22:24 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		AGS is still falling back 20 miles a week. Units are being sent to area so hopefully by February the lines can be held.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 76
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/21/2012 12:04:32 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 30 VP Total= 211

Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed After Oct 1941 =
Corp:
Divisions: 15
Brigades: 2
SU: 10
AP total: 195
Russian losses this turn: 43,000 Total dead: 4,361,000
Russian OOB: 4,402,000
A net gain of: 14,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket:
German losses this turn: 61,000 Total dead: 1,161,000
GHC OOB: 2,882,000
GHC net OOB change: 20,000

Retreats: 15
Helds: 17

Over all the worst of Blizzard is over.

AGN holds all hexes

AGC holds west of Moscow, troops south of Tula keep giving ground.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 77
Holding ground - 9/21/2012 12:06:53 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		AGS starts to fight for ground near southern coast, while the northern flank of AGS keeps falling back for now.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 9/21/2012 12:08:18 PM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 78
RE: Holding ground - 9/22/2012 12:36:00 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 31 VP Total= 208

Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed After Oct 1941 =
Corp:
Divisions: 15
Brigades: 2
SU: 10
AP total: 195
Russian losses this turn: 52,000 Total dead: 4,413,000
Russian OOB: 4,414,000
A net gain of: 12,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket:
German losses this turn: 51,000 Total dead: 1,212,000
GHC OOB: 2,917,000
GHC net OOB change: 33,000

Retreats: 12
Helds: 17

About 1/2 of the center is holding.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 79
RE: Holding ground - 9/22/2012 12:36:52 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Trying to hold the line, but SHC still pushing




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 80
RE: Holding ground - 9/24/2012 10:57:59 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 32 VP Total= 207

Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed After Oct 1941 =
Corp:
Divisions: 15
Brigades: 2
SU: 10
AP total: 195
Russian losses this turn: 41,000 Total dead: 4,454,000
Russian OOB: 4,454,000
A net gain of: 40,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket:
German losses this turn: 44,000 Total dead: 1,256,000
GHC OOB: 2,934,000
GHC net OOB change: 17,000

Retreats: 11
Helds: 17


_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 81
RE: Holding ground - 9/26/2012 1:42:00 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 33 VP Total= 207

Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed After Oct 1941 =
Corp:
Divisions: 15
Brigades: 2
SU: 10
AP total: 195
Russian losses this turn: 26,000 Total dead: 4,480,000
Russian OOB: 4,535,000
A net gain of: 75,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket:
German losses this turn: 38,000 Total dead: 1,294,000
GHC OOB: 2,961,000
GHC net OOB change: 27,000

Retreats: 3
Helds: 5


_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 82
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/26/2012 11:23:53 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 34 VP Total= 207

Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed After Oct 1941 =
Corp:
Divisions: 15
Brigades: 2
SU: 10
AP total: 195
Russian losses this turn: 35,000 Total dead: 4,515,000
Russian OOB: 4,605,000
A net gain of: 65,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket:
German losses this turn: 36,000 Total dead: 1,340,000
GHC OOB: 3,043,000
GHC net OOB change: 84,000

Retreats: 10
Helds: 11


_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 83
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/28/2012 12:46:57 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 35 VP Total= 207

Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed After Oct 1941 =
Corp:
Divisions: 15
Brigades: 2
SU: 10
AP total: 195
Russian losses this turn: 47,000 Total dead: 4,562,000
Russian OOB: 4,637,000
A net gain of: 32,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,122,000
GHC net OOB change: 79,000

Retreats: 9
Helds: 14


_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 84
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/28/2012 12:47:17 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 36 VP Total= 207

Manpower Pts over run during 1942 = ?
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions: 15
Brigades: 2
SU: 10
AP total: 195
Russian losses this turn: 42 ,000 Total dead: 4,594,000
Russian OOB: 4,707,000
A net gain of: 68,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,120,000
GHC net OOB change: -2,000


_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 85
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/30/2012 2:16:59 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 37 VP Total= 207

Manpower Pts over run during 1942 = ?
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions: 15
Brigades: 2
SU: 10
AP total: 195
Russian losses this turn: 34,000 Total dead: 4,628,000
Russian OOB: 4,812,000
A net gain of: 105,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,150,000
GHC net OOB change: 30,000

Over all I should be in great shape come summer. GHC will use snow to famr morale and set the table for summer, by crossing key rivers.

Last turn of blizzard, Center lines.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 86
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 9/30/2012 2:17:47 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		South




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 87
RE: Panzers East!!!!! - 10/21/2012 11:14:30 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 38 VP Total= 207

Manpower Pts over run during 1942 = 41
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions: 15
Brigades: 2
SU: 10
AP total: 195
Russian losses this turn: 40,000 Total dead: 4,668,000
Russian OOB: 4,818,000
A net gain of: 6,000
Russian units currently in a pocket: 6
GHC OOB: 3,206,000
GHC net OOB change: 56,000

Over all 1st turn of snow did not go as I had hoped. SHC retreats east a few hexes. This is probably best tactic to us as SHC, start with drawing east the last turn of Blizzard.

AGC: GHC pockets 6 units.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 88
Pelton vs Brian Summer 42 - 10/21/2012 11:17:18 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		AGS builds morale pushing east.

In this game I held the lines starting in January so panzers and infantry are a little weaker then normal to start spring.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/21/2012 11:20:06 AM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 89
RE: Pelton vs Brian Summer 42 - 10/24/2012 6:15:54 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 39 VP Total= 208

Manpower Pts over run during 1942 = 65
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions: 20
Brigades: 5
SU: 10
AP total: 235
Russian losses this turn: 62,000 Total dead: 4,730,000
Russian OOB: 4,893,000
A net gain of: 75,000
Russian units currently in a pocket: 8
GHC OOB: 3,293,000
GHC net OOB change: 87,000





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 90
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