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French ultimatum to Germany 1939

 
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French ultimatum to Germany 1939 - 7/16/2012 10:38:47 PM   
warspite1


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To stop the book thread from going off topic I shall ask this here:

In Antony Beevor's The Second World War, he states that the French ultimatum to Germany did not contain the word war. I do not see how is that possible?

Does anyone know what the ultimatum actually said? How did the French threaten war, if the Germans did not withdraw from Poland, without saying the word war? I am intrigued....


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RE: French ultimatum to Germany 1939 - 7/16/2012 11:18:35 PM   
rogo727


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W1, This is easy, The French Goverenment was ready for war, small problem tho, the French population was not. After WWI the French could not produce babies for some reason. The Germans however did, The English only slightly better then then the French about making babies for WW2. Mind you this is simple, The Germans are good at three things, making babies, making war and making the simple things very hard.

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RE: French ultimatum to Germany 1939 - 7/16/2012 11:22:45 PM   
Lieste

 

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From "The History Place" website...
quote:

British reaction to the events of September 1st was less emotional. At 9 p.m. that day, Ambassador Nevile Henderson met with Hitler's Foreign Minister, Joachim Ribbentrop, and simply handed him a note containing the official British response – a demand that German troops in Poland halt their aggression immediately and prepare to withdraw. If this did not occur, "His Majesty's Government will without hesitation fulfill their obligation to Poland."

An hour later, the French ambassador met with Ribbentrop and handed him a similarly worded note, which had been composed in coordination with the British.

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RE: French ultimatum to Germany 1939 - 7/16/2012 11:31:41 PM   
parusski


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quote:

"His Majesty's Government will without hesitation fulfill their obligation to Poland."


Which means "It is our obligation to see that Poland does not feel bad, therefore we promise to surrender also."!!!!

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RE: French ultimatum to Germany 1939 - 7/17/2012 3:59:14 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lieste
From "The History Place" website...
quote:

British reaction to the events of September 1st was less emotional. At 9 p.m. that day, Ambassador Nevile Henderson met with Hitler's Foreign Minister, Joachim Ribbentrop, and simply handed him a note containing the official British response – a demand that German troops in Poland halt their aggression immediately and prepare to withdraw. If this did not occur, "His Majesty's Government will without hesitation fulfill their obligation to Poland."

An hour later, the French ambassador met with Ribbentrop and handed him a similarly worded note, which had been composed in coordination with the British.

Warspite1

Lieste this was the original response - which was badly received by parliament as there was no deadline given for the Germans to take action. I believe the French response was similarly woolly.

On the morning of the 3rd the British Government sent the note that gave Germany until 11 o'clock to get out of Poland or the two countries would be at war.

The French did something similar - BUT, according to Beevor - their note did not use the word war. What I am intrigued to know is what the French said, that conveyed the message that the two countries would be at war without using the word war.

Edit: Ahh, so they could have used the words in bold in their final ultimatum too? Okay thanks.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 7/17/2012 4:13:54 AM >


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RE: French ultimatum to Germany 1939 - 7/17/2012 6:23:47 AM   
Southern_land


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

The French did something similar - BUT, according to Beevor - their note did not use the word war. What I am intrigued to know is what the French said, that conveyed the message that the two countries would be at war without using the word war.




Probably something along the lines of "herr Hitler, your mother was goat and your father smelt of elderberries, now leave poland or we shall taunt you a second time you funny german Knight persons!"

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RE: French ultimatum to Germany 1939 - 7/17/2012 6:52:49 AM   
Lieste

 

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July 1:
quote:

"France has definite commitments to Poland. These engagements have been further strengthened as a result of the latest events, and consequently France will at once be at Poland's side as soon at Poland herself takes up arms."


(2 Sept, referring to the 'joint' letter of Sept 1)
quote:

Already last night, on September 1, the French and British Ambassadors were making a joint overture to the German Government. They handed to Herr von Ribbentrop the following communication from the French Government and the British Government, which I will ask your leave to read to you:

"Early this morning the German Chancellor issued a proclamation to the German Army which indicated that he was about to attack Poland.

"Information which has reached His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom and the French Government indicates that attacks upon Polish towns are proceeding.

"In these circumstances it appears to the Governments of the United Kingdom and France that by their action the German Government have created conditions, (viz., an aggressive act of force against Poland threatening the independence of Poland) which call for the implementation by the Government of the United Kingdom and France of the undertaking to Poland to come to her assistance.

"I am accordingly to inform your Excellency that unless the German Government are prepared to give His Majesty's Government satisfactory assurances that the German Government have suspended all aggressive action against Poland and are prepared promptly to withdraw their forces from Polish territory, His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom will without hesitation fulfill their obligations to Poland."


French Ambassador & German Ambassador - Sept 3
quote:

I have the honor to confirm as here below the communication which I made to Your Excellency by telephone at 1 P.M.

Herr von Ribbentrop returned at noon. I was received at this hour by the State Secretary, but the latter informed me that he was not in a position to tell me whether a satisfactory reply had been made to my letter of September 1, nor even whether such a reply could be given thereto. He insisted that I should see Herr von Ribbentrop himself. In these circumstances I asked to be received by the Minister for Foreign Affairs at the earliest possible moment.

I was received by Herr von Ribbentrop at 12:30 P.M.

I asked him whether he could give me a satisfactory reply to my letter which I had handed to him on September 1 at 10 P.M.

He replied to me as follows:

"After the delivery of your letter, the Italian Government notified the German Government of a proposed compromise, stating that the French Government was in agreement. Later, Signor Mussolini intimated to us that the contemplated compromise had failed owning to British intransigence. This morning the British Ambassador handed us an ultimatum, due to expire two hours later, We rejected it for the reason which is explained in the memorandum which I handed to the British Ambassador today and of which I give you a copy.

"If the French Government feels bound by its commitments to Poland to enter into the conflict, I can only regret it, for we have no feeling of hostility towards France. It is only if France attacks us that we shall fight her, and this would be on her part a war of aggression."

I then asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if I was to infer from his utterances that the reply of the Government of the Reich to may letter of September 1 was in the negative. "Yes," he replied.

"In these circumstances I must, on behalf of my Government, remind you for the last time of the heavy responsibility assumed by the Government of the Reich by entering, without a declaration of war, into hostilities against Poland and in not acting upon the suggestion made by the Governments of the French Republic and of His Britannic Majesty to suspend all aggressive action against Poland and to declare itself ready to withdraw its forces promptly from Polish territory.

"I have the painful duty to notify you that as from today, September 3, at 5 P.M., the French Government will find itself obliged to fulfill the obligations that France has contracted towards Poland, and which are known to the German Government.

" 'Well,' Herr von Ribbentrop remarked, 'it will be France who is the aggressor.' "

I replied to him that history would judge of that.


From this is is evident that the Germans were fully aware of the French and British position and that this consistency of purpose (and the existence of a state of war between the UK and Germany already 1.5 hours old) left little room for miss-interpretation.

< Message edited by Lieste -- 7/17/2012 6:53:52 AM >

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RE: French ultimatum to Germany 1939 - 7/17/2012 7:15:23 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
The French did something similar - BUT, according to Beevor - their note did not use the word war. What I am intrigued to know is what the French said



Guerre?

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RE: French ultimatum to Germany 1939 - 7/17/2012 1:59:28 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
The French did something similar - BUT, according to Beevor - their note did not use the word war. What I am intrigued to know is what the French said


Guerre?
Warspite1



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England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




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