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GHC turn one moves+

 
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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> The War Room >> GHC turn one moves+ Page: [1]
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GHC turn one moves+ - 7/16/2012 6:00:07 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPz_eTg3UIE

This is my hand notes on paper for opening moves. Warning its messy, but what I have for notes letter for letter. This doesn't include the small pocket that can easly be formed just north of the Lvov pocket.

I have seen some amazing poor first turn moves by GHC players.Which in most cases is game set match other then wasting a few hundred hours.

This should be used as a guide only.

Take these "notes" and play the opening vs yourself not the computer. This way you can counter your crap moves/mistakes and over 3 to 4 hrs come up with your own perfect opening. save your moves and your moves vs yourself each time. After you have figured out how to make air tight pockets then you can work on turn 2.

I have seen better openings(MT http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3075748 ), but this basic opening is air tight. It leaves you with options and reserves to counter any hold results.

The air war I use Katza's system http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2944453 . Other then possibly bombing Riga's ground units. When it comes to air war Katza is the man.

AGC:

39th pz corp clear left flank
23rd XXX hold north flank
VI Clear Kaunas
V hold right flank
42 XXX corp move north to be AGN right flank

8 corp north east side of pocket
20th support 8th if needed f not move north east
Security units hold west/north west side of pocket
7th corp holds south side and clears pocket over time.

AGN:
12th clears border hex to east then clears hexes along border going south.

The rest of 16th army clears as many border hexes as possible to north.

26 corp pushs north along coast and Tot SS clears all the ports.

The rest of infantry clears a wide path to 52/41ish
3rd Mot clears 54/40 once Riga is cleared move towards Riga clearing hexes.
6th and 1st PZ clear Riga. Attach pioneers first!!! I generally ground attack the units in Riga 2 times then turn ground support to 300% and then attack.
Then move east as far as possible

AGS:
Get FBD-1 on a train and get to border.
295th+71st to 51/78 clear hexes to ne/e/se
68/1st MT/24th to 51/79 clear to south. One unit moves to occupy hex and do one attack.

Security units and 101+100 Jag Divisions hold the Lvov pocket to 68th.

262 to 53/81
296 to 54/81
57th to 56/81 once hex is clear of zoc
75th+297 55/82 attack south east
9th 55/83
168 56/80 XXIX push east
XXXVI pz corp to 57/82
DR divisions clear
10th pz clear 56/85
29th mech end at 59/83
57th move to 57/82
GrossD regiment to 57/83
11th pz to 61/94 split unit
16th pz to 61/86
14th pz to ends at 62/89!
13th pz ends at 62/92
XVII corp moves east along swamp.

The AGS railhead is out of 61/96 using 2 RR units. You have a bunch of pz units in great supply for the first 4 turns and HQ build up easly possible for the first 6 turns unless the SHC player runs.
The russian player can try to counter this, but simply makes for a nice pocket on turn 2 as 6-7 other SHC have found out the hard way vs this and might slow down the RH by 2 hexes if they are lucky and your unlucky. The old throwing good money after bad thing.

I personally slowly close the pockets killing a few units in each. Unit that surrender respawn after turn 10. When they appear they suck up recriuts. So if yu can slowly clear the pockets over 6 to 9 turns this will cause a slow drain on replacements for the SHC. if you clear the pockets quickly the units will respawn to fast and they have a chance to rebuild and train( up morale). If you killem off slowly as possible they be usless until after mud. This effect pays off turns 14-17 and I beleive during snow, not totally sure on that.

the rail unit in center goes to help clear the Riga line turn one, then turn 2 helps with the Kaunus line, then turn 3 starts the line at 55/42 to Vitbesk.

The Kaunus Minsk line then heads to Smolensk then turns south east.

The AGS line split at 72/88

AGN turn 2 should be over the Pskov or atleast by turn 3. HQ build ups on turn 4 or 5
At this point a left hook around lake or drive to Leningrad. I corps should be 4 90+ morale divisions run by Model. 2 poineers and 1 stug per divisions. ground support off all time unless your bombing enemy units in a hex. End game Leningrad then try and help the drive for Moscow.

AGC should be to land bridge by turn 2. turns 3-6 are kind boring do not waste tanks. HQ build ups are doable starting turn 5, but generally not that useful unless linking with AGS for a pocket. the main drive for Moscow starts around turn 9. So AGc panzers can be shipped to help with Leningrad fron turns 4 to 8. Allot of options in center take what SHc gives you. End game Moscow.

AGS basicly pocket what you can and try to cross rivers by turn 4 -7. Once over you can turn north or south. I try to return the PZ Corp from AGC asap as the south now is a back water for SHC and requires little in the way of mech units once your over the river. The end game is Rostov and the 3 small towns that release another AG. This AG is a huge bonus.

Over-all ignore taking industry its to easy to rail it out. Focus on pocketing russian units and taking manpower centers. I raid, but to cut rail lines not industry. Cutting rail lines will help with making pockets. My goal every turn is to pocket a few units every turn. Checker boards are easy to counter, its a few dozen or so units pocketed every turn same with screens. Have a pocketing mind set forget about industry.

It takes some time to learn how to do, but learn to chain HQ build-ups. Turn 101 HQB corp 1/turn 102 HQB corp 2/turn 103 hqb corp 3/ turn 104 air drop fuel. Your have to mess with this to figure out which divisions from which corp attack first then put back to HQ to be HQed and which ones drive east. Again this system is not set in stone, but is very flexable and has worked from when game went gold to present. Dont get hung up on how many tanks you have during 1941, they are junk. You should have around 800-1200 by turn 17. 0 is fine in my book. The less I have the better after turn 7 in AGS. The less tanks and men the less fuel and supplies required. I funnel replacements into AGN/AGC pz/mot units. Most panzer divisions after turn 12ish are basicly Mot infantry which is fine for my play style.

Some games I only use 7 to 8 HQB's other's 15-20. Its depends on the SHC player and patch. Its when you use the chain that matters. If you pull one off right its totally throws the SHC into a panic and unbalances the defences for the summer.

Turns 1-7 are huge huge huge for the GHC. You dont have to take Leningrad on turn 4 or Moscow turn 12 or Stalino turn 7, you simply have to be near Leningrad, Smolensk and over the river in the south by turn 7. From turn 7-10 SHC will get very few new units. Your railheads will be close to front and the 2nd half of summer(turn9+) you will have allot of good options. 7+ your on your own, but atleast you will have a fighting chance.

Turn 1 is huge, if you open poorly you will not recover game set match.

Before playing vs a human and wasting both of your time. Perfect your opening moves, writem down. Read the AAR's, there is an amazing amount of great info for both sides.




Reserve activation set-up: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3132188

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 7/18/2012 6:18:48 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo
Post #: 1
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/16/2012 8:12:15 PM   
Ketza


Posts: 2181
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline
I was actually going to make a post like this with screen shots. Since I started playing again I have started 3 games as Soviets and have some fun games going but Axis knowledge does not seemed to have progressed much from a year ago.

I may do so yet

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 2
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/16/2012 8:32:11 PM   
Klydon


Posts: 2142
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline
I am a big believer the Germans should practice their opening move several times before facing a "real" opponent. You simply can't ever recover from a poor turn 1 against a Russian player worth their salt.

(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 3
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/16/2012 10:58:36 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

I was actually going to make a post like this with screen shots. Since I started playing again I have started 3 games as Soviets and have some fun games going but Axis knowledge does not seemed to have progressed much from a year ago.

I may do so yet


I thought you started a AAR on that alrdy?

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2944453

< Message edited by Pelton -- 7/16/2012 11:59:17 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 4
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/16/2012 11:08:08 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGN after turn 1 moves




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 5
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/16/2012 11:08:44 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGC




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 6
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/16/2012 11:09:19 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGS




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 7
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/16/2012 11:34:21 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 2

Its very very important on turn 2 in the north to open a very wide spearhead. Vs better players if you have a thin spearhead SHC will simply rail in mech or cav units right next to the spearhead and shut you down for several turns.

A nice wide area is best. The PZ Corp at Riga has 1 division flip hexes on north side and one unit from the south side flips hexes. When turn ends everything in the bag flips.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 7/17/2012 12:21:08 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 8
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/16/2012 11:34:56 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGC: same thing in center a nice wide advance.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 7/17/2012 12:21:42 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 9
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/16/2012 11:35:32 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 2 AGS

In this case as in about 6 other games the SHC knows ahead of time what I am going to do and he throws good money after bad. I converted 2 less hexes and lost some good units. Most times commanders like this throw some more good money after bad (turn3) and end up lossing another 15+ units. The huge plus in south all units are withen 20 hexes of rail heads for atleast 3 turns. Most times in south my first hqb is on turn 3.

Most SHC that have been around rail out 1/3 of the units from the south and send them to landbridge and Pskov area. South is really becoming a back water in most games now.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 7/17/2012 12:25:57 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 10
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/17/2012 12:00:26 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGN on turn 5 after 2 HQB's on turn 4




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 11
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/17/2012 12:06:37 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
I added Micheal T's southern opening move link and Ketza's link that explains the air tactics in more detail in the opening post.



_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 12
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/17/2012 12:18:12 AM   
Ketza


Posts: 2181
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline
That was many patches ago. I have also drilled down into the opening moves more and discovered a few things along the way. Working on screen shots now. It will be a different thread.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 13
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/17/2012 12:29:29 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
In this game my 2nd turn in the north the spearhead was to thin. (turn 3 before I move)

We all make mistakes, but the question is do they learn from them?

I screwed up. I never made that mistake again.

New peeps you have it easy, read the AAR's.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 7/17/2012 12:31:19 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 14
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/17/2012 12:34:46 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

That was many patches ago. I have also drilled down into the opening moves more and discovered a few things along the way. Working on screen shots now. It will be a different thread.


Cool.

I look forward to it.




_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 15
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/17/2012 12:42:54 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
As can be seen between the 2 AGN posts, its very important to be the one keeping the other guy guessing.

If your flanks are weak they better be very wide. I have no problem leaving 10 to 20 hexes completely undefended at times as long as there are allot of flipped hexes the SHC cant do anything about it in 41.

You must keep the SHC guessing and off balance. Its ok to stop around turn 8-12 to refit and HQ all 3 fronts. If you have been keeping the other guy off balance he will be very concerned the **** is about to hit the fan. I run my tanks all over the plase forsing the SHC to defend the hole front. I try to stay away from the panzer ball thing as long as possible during 41. In most cases around Moscow towards the end of summer its a given this will happen.

If you have been pocketing units steadly over the first 1/2 of summer you should have some chances at huge pockets the 2nd 1/2 because the SHC can't retreat any more or Moscow is toast.




Panzer raid on the rail lines. This cut supplies and Moscow was over run during the snow turns because of a lack of supplies. M60 did a great job of 1 seeing the hand writing on the wall and saved almost all the units. M60 retook Moscow during the blizzard, but the manpower hit really hurt him over the coming yr. GHc took it back during the 42 summer.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 7/17/2012 12:49:33 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 16
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/17/2012 12:01:44 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 1764
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline
Very good information. I am trying to get back into playing the Axis - its been a while, and this definitely helps!

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 17
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/17/2012 2:07:49 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
I have gotten several pms and emails on the chain. I am tring to get one with current rule set, explaining it with screen shots.

The first one I have done under current rule set is this one.

Its a 2 turn chain with air drops on the 3rd leg.

Turn 101
1st corp sets up for a HQB next turn.
Turn 102
A. 1st Corp divisions do their attacks then pull back to withen HQB range.
B. The other 3 PZ Corp push forward.
C. One of the 3 PZ Corp that is pushing forward sets up withen HQB range for the next turn(2nd PZ Corp).
D. 1st Corp does HQB.
Turn 103
A. 2nd Corp does their attacks then pull back withen HQB range.
B. 3rd and 4th Corp does their attacks.
C. 1st Corp pushes forward.
D. 2nd Corp does HQB
E. Some possible air drops are made to any units that might get cut off. That way MP's remain mid 20's.
Turn 104
A. Generally 3rd and 4th do attacks because 1st MP will be mid 30's
B. 1st does its moving.
C. 2nd does its moving, MP's mid 40's.
D. At this point if things are going good you have to make allot of air drops. The spearhead will be far from the rail head.
Turn 105
A. The Mp's in 2nd Corp are still mid 30's to 40's(if you did a air drop)
B. 1st Corp should be mid 20's
C. Any possible rail cutting raids should be considered.

In the AAR thats linked below I was able to close a 33 ground unit pocket and put SHC of balance.
My game vs Bobo is very tight, hes doing a very good job at delaying me as he rails out industry. I have been able to pocket at least 8+ units a turn. So far SHC has been able to keep GHC some what under control. Without that one large pocket I would be toast. A 2 turn chain is keeping me in the game.

I have started 3 other chains one in each army gruop.

Chains do not always work, but their your only real chance of keeping SHC of balance and guessing if your playing a good SHC that makes few mistakes. If those 33 units were still on line on turn 9 I would be in very big truoble with little chance of winning unless Bobo made a big mistake.

As it is he has made zero errors, but yet I still have a shot at a good enough 41 to have a chance in 42.

Hope this helps until I get better info.


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3131609&mpage=1&key=

In the picture below the light blue HQ the most south with a mech unit under it and the 2 divisions to east started out with 1st PZ down by Keiv on turn 4. On turn 8 1st PG is back withen 80 miles of Kiev( a 200+ mile move plus crossing a major river), because of good Mp's. They are about to make attacks back down south and start another chain on turn 9.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 7/17/2012 2:22:16 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 18
RE: GHC turn one moves+ - 7/17/2012 2:26:21 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
The new rule set will really limit the effects of a 3rd build-up. The only time I see doing it would be if your playing someone who is a poor player and is running to fast.

I would say vs a good SHC the GHC is limited to 2 turn chains now with the 3rd + 4th leg being air drops.

So now it is uber important to conserve your lvl bombers and transports. I try to get them in plase early so the planes can rest for 1 or 2 turns.

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 19
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