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RE: Off Board Arty - Way too Effective ... Still

 
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RE: Off Board Arty - Way too Effective ... Still - 7/18/2012 3:51:48 PM   
Mobius


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I looked at the Tutorial in the patch and played it a number of times. The mortar battery has been nerfed so much there were almost no mortar hits scored. I think the loses tony luke experienced were due to hits from the 45mm AT guns.

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RE: Off Board Arty - Way too Effective ... Still - 7/18/2012 8:27:27 PM   
k9mike

 

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I was going to say....My experience with arty in this game prior to the patch has been very fair and accurate...most of the time doesnt hit too much, but helps pin soldiers and button up tanks and stuff. Like its supposed to. My biggest complaint with game before was the AT gun movement, and infantry movement stuff. But, still good debate none the less. ;)

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RE: Off Board Arty - Way too Effective ... Still - 7/19/2012 9:44:34 PM   
Yoozername

 

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I have played that demo and find it hard to believe anyone could get more than one hit, let alone two meaningful hits. As Mobius has posted, once a hit is secured, then it has to be a turret hit, and then it only has a small chance to do damage.

I am actually fine with the small damage percentage (4%) since turret roof armor includes a fan that naturally would have some direct opening to the interior, the hatches may have had VERY thin armor or edge areas, and possibly a chance of getting a hit right behind the gun shield. I still say fragmentation from a typical cast iron mortar bomb would have little to no chance of making penetrations on armor.

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RE: Off Board Arty - Way too Effective ... Still - 7/20/2012 12:10:42 AM   
Mobius


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I don't object to try to tweak the 81-82mm iron shell mortars more. See how that plays.
As it is right now they are singled out to penetrate 6% less than steel body shells.

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RE: Off Board Arty - Way too Effective ... Still - 7/22/2012 8:26:59 AM   
Yoozername

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: k9mike

I was going to say....My experience with arty in this game prior to the patch has been very fair and accurate...most of the time doesnt hit too much, but helps pin soldiers and button up tanks and stuff. Like its supposed to. My biggest complaint with game before was the AT gun movement, and infantry movement stuff. But, still good debate none the less. ;)


I thought it was productive. This game, to me, should be as precise as possible as far as weapon's effects. I am very much keen on having 'MikeyD' type yahoo posts NOT being here. As much fun as it may be for fanboys to back up any contentious issue with a 'I knew a guy that read once about something like this..." post, meant to sway the silent majority, being my main concern. I can certainly post data to back up my side of any argument. I hope others can too. I think Mobius at least appreciates that it isn't personal. MR probably thinks everything is personal. But it isn't. I am just disappointed at the level of technical discussion at so called wargame websites.

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RE: Off Board Arty - Way too Effective ... Still - 7/22/2012 4:40:40 PM   
Mobius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yoozername
I am just disappointed at the level of technical discussion at so called wargame websites.
Wargames sites don't have a motivation to look too closely at what might be technical challenges to their game system or data.
The most open discussions on technical issues would be sites on tanks, ships, aircraft, wwII or computer or miniatures games in general.
Though the ability to care about some small point, which may be important in the context of a game, might be lacking.

I would like to say we enjoy with the xml data collection the ability to easily try what-if changes. Most other games have their data hidden in encrypted files or hard coded in their exe so it is much harder to make data changes.


< Message edited by Mobius -- 7/22/2012 6:00:59 PM >

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RE: Off Board Arty - Way too Effective ... Still - 8/14/2012 3:35:24 AM   
Yoozername

 

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I suppose it's like 'Hollywood'. They are not as motivated as making a precise war movie as they are at making some entertainment.

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RE: Off Board Arty - Way too Effective ... Still - 8/14/2012 5:06:34 AM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yoozername


MR probably thinks everything is personal. But it isn't. I am just disappointed at the level of technical discussion at so called wargame websites.



I don't think the technical discussions get personal. Sometimes, IMO, the comments and the tones do.

Good Hunting.

MR




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RE: Off Board Arty - Way too Effective ... Still - 8/14/2012 5:08:51 AM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yoozername

I suppose it's like 'Hollywood'. They are not as motivated as making a precise war movie as they are at making some entertainment.


There is always the issue of how much game and how much sim goes into each offering you get to choose from. No game will please everyone no matter what it has in it or what model you use, how your interface works, etc...

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 8/14/2012 5:09:57 AM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Off Board Arty - Way too Effective ... Still - 8/14/2012 11:15:18 AM   
oldspec4

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yoozername

I suppose it's like 'Hollywood'. They are not as motivated as making a precise war movie as they are at making some entertainment.


There is always the issue of how much game and how much sim goes into each offering you get to choose from. No game will please everyone no matter what it has in it or what model you use, how your interface works, etc...

Good Hunting.

MR


So very true

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Post #: 40
RE: Off Board Arty - Way too Effective ... Still - 8/18/2012 5:12:36 PM   
Yoozername

 

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Some interesting data in regards to US armor casualties and repair. They list the cause of the damage and the repair success.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 41
RE: Off Board Arty - Way too Effective ... Still - 8/18/2012 9:10:22 PM   
Rick

 

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Those are interesting stats. Does the document indicate if mortar included other Art types?

thanks
Rick

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Post #: 42
RE: Off Board Arty - Way too Effective ... Still - 8/18/2012 9:56:34 PM   
Yoozername

 

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UNIT RECONSTITUTION - A HISTORICAL
PERSPECTIVE
by Dr. 'Edward J. Drea

It's available online.

I don't think it's specified. I take Gunfire to include both direct and indirect guns/howitzers. Clearly mortars are not tank killers or even damaging that many tanks.

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Post #: 43
RE: Off Board Arty - Way too Effective ... Still - 8/18/2012 11:24:45 PM   
danlongman

 

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I am pretty sure the gunfire number is from direct and indirect fire.
The number of repairable indicates a lower number of catastophic hits
by gunfire. In many armoured units the greatest number of human casualties
were caused by indirect fire, even when the units had been in tank to tank
engagements. Direct hits by Panzerfaust, Panzerschreck and Tank guns are frequently
fatal to the vehicle. On the other had indirect fire causes repairable damage
and personnel losses since the tank crews did not spend all their time inside
buttoned up when they weren't expecting to move.
cheers

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