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RE: Next Steps

 
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RE: Next Steps - 5/12/2013 2:47:03 PM   
ny59giants


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Joined: 1/10/2005
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Cape Town device convoys - I've noticed that the convoys don't withdraw and disband the devices into the pools three days after arrival starting in July '43. Some state that will not withdraw for over 33 to 188 days. Do you have any convoys at CT with any withdrawl time over 3 days?? I've posted this in the Mod section about it.

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Post #: 601
RE: Next Steps - 5/15/2013 5:41:55 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5557
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Cape Town device convoys - I've noticed that the convoys don't withdraw and disband the devices into the pools three days after arrival starting in July '43. Some state that will not withdraw for over 33 to 188 days. Do you have any convoys at CT with any withdrawl time over 3 days?? I've posted this in the Mod section about it.


I haven't had any issues there....they seem to be disbanding into the pools. I'll check next time, but will look next time I am in the file.

10-29-43:

I haven't posted in awhile; last posting I was cryptic about what I would do while I knew the KB was in the Indian Ocean.

The problem was that Greyjoy's timing happened to be perfect, from the standpoint that all my CVs were in Shipyards at that moment. There is a major AA upgrade for the ESSEX-class on 10/43; I also had several CVs finishing other repairs from damage. Maybe Greyjoy knew about the upgrade, but as a result, everyone was unavailable. Bad luck, that! It was the right decision to take care of upgrades while you are also repairing damage, but c'est la guerre.

So, I tried to create feint in the DEI, hoping to lure his surface ships south of Molu, or planes into CAP traps. Greyjoy didn't take the bait at all; I must be better about the subterfuge next time. I did shoot down a few dozen planes, but no big deal. A bombardment by YAMATO on Molu also torched some of my planes, and my timing was off (I almost sent 6 BBs to a night phase there, but decided against it; too bad)

So, nothing big happened. The KB is likely back in position. Now what?

Well, NOW my CVs are fixed. LEX and SARA are completing repairs at Pearl; everyone else is good to go, and stacked with new 40mm guns. I'm staring to get Corsairs.

At this point, I have a couple conservative landings planned in the next 15-30 days; while I am OK with a fight with KB, I would rather have those 2 more CVs on hand, and full Corsairs, before SEEKING a fight. Once I have that, I'll look for KB and engage, LBA be damned. Really. I just want a fight at this point, I don't care if I suffer losses.

That's the update from Q-Ball HQ.

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Post #: 602
RE: September Days - 5/15/2013 8:07:44 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 7231
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Q-ball,

Me and my opponent is considering to start using the BETA to avoid some of the pitfalls related to the late game seen in the GJ/rader game (alabative escorts/massed LBA and so on).

Iīm quite worried about updating considering the massive change to air coordination and how that affects everything. You have been playing for quite some time now with the BETA. What is your opinion on the BETA? Do you foresee any problems later on? Iīm especially worried about:

-Ground/AF/Strategic bombing being affected/lowered by less coordination
-Allied bomber losses rising dramatically

Thankful for any input!





Joe,

I am playing the beta and am just rolled into 4/45 in my campaign. Believe me, it is much better. You have to learn to use your air power differently but it does work out better. Go with the beta.


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Post #: 603
RE: September Days - 5/15/2013 9:11:49 PM   
witpqs


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I'm in late 5/43 in the Rumble game with Andav using just about the latest Beta (sometimes we get one or two behind when they come out quick and we are busy), and I would not do it any other way.

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Post #: 604
Lesson Learned - 5/15/2013 11:44:50 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5557
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From: Chicago, Illinois
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I really like the new BETA. Sure, I don't like it as much when my trailing bombers get chewed up, but it's better.

Usually, there is one big strike from LBA, followed by pockets of individual units that get creamed. But that's probably close to reality.

11-1-43

Magwe Raid: I had another air disaster over Magwe. It hurt!

I set a 200-plane sweep over Magwe, with a 200-plane bomber raid. The problem is the sweeps didn't fly, but the bombers did! Result: I lost 68 4Es all at once! Ouch! (and 40 or so Hurri escorts, but don't care much about those).

The problem was I flew the sweeps from Kalemyo, which was closed due to weather, while the bombers flew from another base that wasn't.....so, of course one flew and not the other

I guess I learned my lesson: Try to fly all missions from the same base so that doesn't happen. If only the SWEEPS flew, that would have been OK, but as it happened, the bombers did only.

So, as a result, a field day for a bunch of Tojos.

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 5/16/2013 3:31:24 AM >

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Post #: 605
RE: Lesson Learned - 5/16/2013 6:41:13 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Thanks for the info in the Beta. We are going to update shortly! Wonīt enjoy looking at the replay after that though. Lots of ECS clicking and I probably will have to use some 3rd party program to view the CRs! Will be 3-400 fragments to watch

Brad,
Even when flying from the same base there is still the risk of the bombers going in before the sweeps. That happens quite regularly. Or only 1-2 sweeps arrive before the bombers and then 10-20 goes in after. I avoid this unless its absolutely critical. Sweep the skies clear a few days in advance instead?

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 606
RE: Lesson Learned - 5/17/2013 1:04:43 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5557
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
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11-6-43:

So, I need some practical advice on Sweeps. I've never played this late in a game, unlike Greyjoy, and so I don't really have any experience with late-war sweeps. How does one get those big kill ratios?

Today, we did a big sweep over Mandalay. I lost 22 P-47s and about 23 Hellcats, and we shot down 85 fighters. Not a disaster, but that's not a favorable rate in the long run. I have the Hellcats, but not the P-47s.

How do I do this?

We are playing with a HR setting max altitude at 2nd best maneuver band. Here were my settings:

4x P-47: SWEEP, at 42,000 ft
2xHellcat: LRCAP at 38,000
2xP-38: LRCAP at 31,000 ft
1xP-40N: LRCAP at 15,000 ft
1xCorsair: LRCAP at 31,000ft

Total, that is close to 200 planes I had on that combat. Should I have more on CAP? More sweepers? DIfferent altitude? What?

I don't mind losing Hellcats (which is why they are here), but I need to preserve the P-47s

Here is the combat report:

Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 42 NM, estimated altitude 45,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 166
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 205
Ki-84a Frank x 231

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 24
F4U-1 Corsair x 18
F6F-3 Hellcat x 36

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 6 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x P-47D2 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet

CAP engaged:
251 Ku S-1 with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 27 on standby, 0 scrambling)
13 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 35300.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
202 Ku S-1 with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 30 on standby, 0 scrambling)
15 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 35300.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
261 Ku S-2 with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 54 on standby, 0 scrambling)
27 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 35300.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
1st Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 28 on standby, 0 scrambling)
13 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 31000 and 34440.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
9th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 24 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 36740.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes
11th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 28 on standby, 0 scrambling)
14 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 36740.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
24th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 28 on standby, 0 scrambling)
14 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 31000 and 34440.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
25th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 28 on standby, 0 scrambling)
14 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 36740.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
54th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 20 on standby, 0 scrambling)
10 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 31000 and 34440.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
64th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 28 on standby, 0 scrambling)
14 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 31000 and 34440.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
77th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 27 on standby, 0 scrambling)
13 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 31000 and 34440.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
87th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 23 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 36740.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
246th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 24 on standby, 0 scrambling)
12 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 34440.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
248th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (29 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
29 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead
260th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (23 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
23 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 43,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 165
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 181
Ki-84a Frank x 214

Allied aircraft
P-38H Lightning x 49
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 25
F6F-3 Hellcat x 43

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 2 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x P-47D2 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet

CAP engaged:
251 Ku S-1 with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
32 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 36000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
202 Ku S-1 with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 26 on standby, 0 scrambling)
18 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 40000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
261 Ku S-2 with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 42 on standby, 0 scrambling)
35 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 39000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
1st Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 20 on standby, 0 scrambling)
18 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 31000 and 42000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
9th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 16 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 42000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
11th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 20 on standby, 0 scrambling)
18 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 36740 and 39000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
24th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (4 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
20 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 27000 and 34440.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
25th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 28 on standby, 0 scrambling)
14 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 36740.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
54th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 8 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 34440 and 38000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
64th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 24 on standby, 0 scrambling)
16 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 31000 and 35000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
77th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 23 on standby, 0 scrambling)
16 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 31000 and 41000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 40 minutes
87th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 19 on standby, 0 scrambling)
15 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 36740.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
246th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 16 on standby, 0 scrambling)
20 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 34440.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
248th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
25 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 83 minutes
260th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 97 minutes



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 48 NM, estimated altitude 45,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 161
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 174
Ki-84a Frank x 201

Allied aircraft
P-38H Lightning x 25
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 25
F4U-1 Corsair x 18
F6F-3 Hellcat x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 5 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x P-47D2 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet

CAP engaged:
251 Ku S-1 with N1K2-J George (3 airborne, 12 on standby, 4 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
13 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 8 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 33000 and 43000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 43 minutes
202 Ku S-1 with N1K2-J George (3 airborne, 22 on standby, 4 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 17330 and 35300.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes
261 Ku S-2 with N1K2-J George (4 airborne, 34 on standby, 4 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
25 plane(s) not yet engaged, 12 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 40000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
1st Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 5 scrambling)
12 plane(s) not yet engaged, 8 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 31000 and 37740.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
9th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
12 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 35000 and 43000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
11th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (4 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
21 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 46000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes
24th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
17 plane(s) not yet engaged, 12 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 31000 and 36740.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
25th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (6 airborne, 16 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
16 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 45000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 38 minutes
54th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 1 scrambling)
12 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 31000 and 46000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
64th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 20 on standby, 6 scrambling)
9 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 30000 and 34440.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
77th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 15 on standby, 3 scrambling)
16 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 31000 and 43000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
87th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 15 on standby, 0 scrambling)
13 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 19000 and 44000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
246th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (2 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
19 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 34440.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
248th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 25 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes
260th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 6 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 36740.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 42,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 149
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 154
Ki-84a Frank x 189

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 25
F4U-1 Corsair x 18
F6F-3 Hellcat x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 2 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 2 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 6 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x P-47D2 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet

CAP engaged:
251 Ku S-1 with N1K2-J George (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 4 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 12 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 33000 and 43000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 50 minutes
202 Ku S-1 with N1K2-J George (4 airborne, 18 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
12 plane(s) not yet engaged, 5 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 17330 and 35300.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
261 Ku S-2 with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 22 on standby, 8 scrambling)
29 plane(s) not yet engaged, 13 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 16000 and 45000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
1st Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (3 airborne, 12 on standby, 5 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
13 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 31000 and 40000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
9th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
10 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 35000 and 43000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
24th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
15 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 18000 and 46000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
25th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 4 scrambling)
25 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 36740.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
54th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 1 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 31000 and 39740.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
64th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 9 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 8 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 30000 and 34440.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes
77th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 19 on standby, 3 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 6 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 19000 and 43000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 47 minutes
87th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 36000 and 43000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
246th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
16 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 33000 and 45000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
248th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 25 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 36740.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
260th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 4 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 36740.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
11th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 4 scrambling)
12 plane(s) not yet engaged, 9 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 36000 and 36740.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 607
RE: Lesson Learned - 5/17/2013 1:58:01 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 7200
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Has the rules for A2A combat changed in AE from the original WITP?? I ask because fighters would only attack those with opposing missions.

CAP, LRCAP = Defense
Sweep, Escort = Offense

I've seen those on LRCAP show up during the Combat Replay and defend themselves, but very few shoot down enemy fighters.

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RE: Lesson Learned - 5/17/2013 2:19:23 PM   
obvert


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Oh, they work and provide a big plus most of the time.

Still, if your game allows it, (we've outlawed offensive LR CAP), use less good models on the LR CAP mission, like the Hellcats. The Corsairs are sweepers, only. They are your best in my opinion and nothing Japanese works at better than 1:3 against them in the best of conditions.

Alternate days for sweeping groups. Keep them fresh. Make sure you sweep with 4-6 groups a day though, and the later ones should be more effective. Take on the edges first if he sets them to cover an area bigger than 0 hex. The effects on moral and fatigue accumulate over time, and his pilot quality will still go down while you're getting 2:1 if you don't make mistakes by sending in bombers and giving 50 kills for free with the escorts.

If you use 4Es, make it a hammer. No half way. 250-300 at a time. They usually don't need escorts if the sweeps go in first and if you're not taking on the THE base. Make sure they're far enough back that they come in last (from a level 9 base with good support), not too far that they fragment extremely. But if your game still allows offensive LR CAP with bombing this is not such a problem. Also the strafing B-25D-1s are your best sweepers with a 58 defensive gun rating. Throw 100 of those at him after some sweeps and they're better than than 4Es at punching through. Shouldn't be since they actually have only one defensive turret, but use it while it's there.

Vary everything all of the time. No patterns. No milkruns. Nothing he can adapt to. Don't even use the P-40s. Rear area CAP only. Only use your best fighters on sweeps and LR CAP.

Really though, as mentioned above, don't go for the knockout until you've danced and jabbed for a few rounds. If he can put up a 400-500 plane CAP here, then some other place is not covered. Hit that. Make him LR CAP something. Get the CAP tired, spread out and the service 3 planes damaged. Then hit hard.

If you have questions, ask JockMeister. This is what he's done to me and it's worked quite well, if somewhat slowly and methodically. But if the Japanese player can put up those numbers, there isn't really another way.

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/17/2013 2:21:57 PM >


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RE: Lesson Learned - 5/17/2013 3:06:48 PM   
Q-Ball


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OBVERT: Thanks for the reply!

I do make sure everyone is very, very rested, almost 0 fatigue. He sets to 0 range, so no help there (I've tried to get leakers at Shwebo)

So, it sounds like it's hopeless at Mandalay, or any base with 500 fighters. Is that right?

Greyjoy has alot more fighters than I do, so he is able to concentrate 200+ at at least 5 airfields from what I can tell. You can expand all IJN fighters groups to 72 planes if you want to, I think he's done alot of that, and packed them with Georges.

Greyjoy has also aggressively accelerated FRANK and other airframes, months ahead, which doesn't help

So, my TACTICS are OK (except for maybe using Corsairs on sweep vs. LRCAP), but the STRATEGY needs to change (forget the biggest bases)

Is that right?

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RE: Lesson Learned - 5/17/2013 3:09:59 PM   
JocMeister

 

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What Erik said.

I donīt use LRCAP for offensive missions because they donīt perform as well as Sweeps and fatigue is just insane making the involved squadrons unavailable for days while recovering. I also think planes on LRCAP lessen the overall effect of the sweeps. Just a feeling though.

Use sweeps only and set up 3-4 rotations of 100-200 planes each so you can rest and replenish the rotations currently not sweeping. I try and keep squadrons with the same models in the same rotation. Makes it easier when giving orders to a large number of squadrons and it feels like it might increase the chance of "coordinated sweeps". Obviously use only your best pilots in the airframes you cherish like the P47. This is at least what I do and I think Iīm doing well in the air!

Make sure you keep it up for a week or two and his fatigue and moral will be down the drain. This will lead to your KDR shooting through up to 7-8 eventually. If you can, force him to LRCAP something and then sweep that rather than his bases. That will skyrocket his fatigue. Its just about sweep, sweep, sweep. Eventually he will crack and then you can start closing his airbases.

Are you making sure your pilots have high DEF rating? Should be at least 60-70.

EDIT:

Big air bases can be closed. Either you wear him down like I described above or you can close it instantly. Iīve done that one 2-3 occasions with 500-700 fighters on CAP (Rangoon, Rabaul). You do need luck though. Just set up as many squadrons as you have to spare on Sweep, set all bombers you have available on AF attack and sacrifice something you hold dearly to the gods of AE that the Sweeps go in first!



< Message edited by JocMeister -- 5/17/2013 3:14:49 PM >

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RE: Lesson Learned - 5/17/2013 3:17:42 PM   
obvert


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Well, if he's using 0 hex CAP, then he's got vulnerable areas you can hit. Whether those are important enough to warrant him coming out to play is the question.

Not sure by the reports if he's making groups that much bigger, like 72. I never did, and I had more there than he does. The IJAAF groups are 42 planes and go to 49 planes later! Many IJNAF groups get bigger too as the game goes.

It looks like most of what you're doing is decent, but in my experience the big bases need to be ground down slowly. There is no sense for him having them there if he can't protect what is around them, though, so you have to figure out how to take advantage of what he's giving you. Even if it's just closing other fields, reducing supply, hitting any troops in clear hexes.

I thought those big bases were almost invulnerable. They are not, but it takes a lot of time and effort to break through. Once you get it done it's like Chinese ground troops; the losses will be staggering.

If Jocke checks in he can tell you if I've got it right better than me!

EDIT - speak of the devil!

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/17/2013 3:20:31 PM >


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RE: Lesson Learned - 5/17/2013 3:31:19 PM   
ny59giants


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quote:

Greyjoy has alot more fighters than I do, so he is able to concentrate 200+ at at least 5 airfields from what I can tell. You can expand all IJN fighters groups to 72 planes if you want to, I think he's done alot of that, and packed them with Georges.


I would consider doing this as 'gamey.' I would only expand existing groups to the max size that is already available for the IJN. Since their is no organic 72 plane fighter groups, this would not be allowed, IMO.

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RE: Lesson Learned - 5/17/2013 3:39:49 PM   
House Stark

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Greyjoy has alot more fighters than I do, so he is able to concentrate 200+ at at least 5 airfields from what I can tell. You can expand all IJN fighters groups to 72 planes if you want to, I think he's done alot of that, and packed them with Georges.


You should ask him if he did this. It's somewhat gamey, incredibly so if only one side is doing this. I would talk to him and confirm so that you two can either agree to ban the practice, or make it officially okay. You've lost some carriers, right? Can any of their bought-back fighter squadrons resize freely? You could make some equivalent, or even larger Hellcat or Corsair squadrons (since your carriers have capacity 90). Which is convenient, since the USN is the only branch of the Allies that's actually likely to have spare fighters.

Edit: Also, you are likely to have more AV support available to support these massive amounts of fighters.

< Message edited by House Stark -- 5/17/2013 3:41:39 PM >

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RE: Lesson Learned - 5/17/2013 4:13:51 PM   
obvert


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Looking back at the report, if that's all of it, there are significantly fewer George groups. Only 3. Compared to I think 6 Frank and 6 Tojo groups. And 166 Georges up. If that was at 100% CAP (highly unlikely) it would still be 55 plane groups at the least. Maybe you're right.

If it's allowed, there's your problem solved right there. Two 72 plane Corsair groups should be all you need!

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RE: Lesson Learned - 5/17/2013 9:32:02 PM   
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They have been large for awhile.....155 George divided by 3 groups = 52 per group, and that's only if every single plane engaged.....I am guessing they are at 63 or 72 planes, depending on the CV they re-sized on

I'm pretty sure all IJN LBA is resized to the max, including DBs and Fighters. Also, most of the CV units from CVEs, etc, are split in 3 and expanded, because I often see Hosho/C or whatever.......I've seen 50+ plane strikes from one DB unit

By recon, last turn I count approx. 1250-1500 front-line fighters, which is more front-line fighters than I have. Those are just the ones I can see. In addition, he's invested heavily in R&D, so those fighters are all 3rd Gen Tojo, George, Frank; better qualitatively, in other words, than all but my elite models. The workhorse planes, Hurri and P-40, are the oldest pieces of junk on the map.

So, I can't blame Greyjoy, we had no HR against it, and he's pushing it all to the max, which is smart in a way.

Should I ask about it?

Even if I could reciprocate and expand, most of the USN units are fixed in size. I don't have enough Corsairs anyway; they don't grow on trees

The RL limit on IJN units seems to be 27 or 36.



< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 5/17/2013 9:34:08 PM >

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RE: Lesson Learned - 5/17/2013 10:12:23 PM   
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Qball:  I went to an old save and tried to resize my CV fighters and it would not let me.  Carrier fighter squadrons will resize in 44 or so to 40 some planes then back down in 45.  Army squadrons can't be expanded either.

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RE: Lesson Learned - 5/17/2013 10:45:36 PM   
Schlemiel

 

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There are resizeable navy groups. Check especially cve groups for replacement cves. Some marine groups are expandable too, especially early war. British carrier groups tend to be expandable as well, so you might be able to get a 90 hurri unit with a couple of type swaps (for all the use it'll be at this stage).

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RE: Lesson Learned - 5/17/2013 10:52:37 PM   
House Stark

 

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Q-Ball,
-Didn't you lose some CVEs at some point? Perhaps their bought back fighter squadrons can be resized. And although you won't be able to equip as many squadrons as Greyjoy, a 72 or 90 Corsair sweep is probably better than hoping for 3-4 regular squadrons to sweep together. Same for Hellcats. If you decide not to bring this up with Greyjoy, you will be able to take better advantage of this in fall 1944 when you get ~150 Corsairs and 180 Hellcats a month.

-What about the Brits? They don't get many replacements, but you might be able to put make a unit fly Sea Hurricanes, resize to 45 or 54 on a Brit carrier, and then convert to SpitVIII, which you should be getting soon.

-Max regular size of some Japanese fighter units in the game is 45, but his groups are still way above that.

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RE: Next Steps - 5/17/2013 11:23:33 PM   
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If I understand correctly, the chief advantage of big squadrons is they fly sweeps as a unit.

I'm not sure I understand why a big squadron on the defense is superior to 2 smaller squadrons with equal numbers of planes and pilots of equal quality (assuming the base is large and there are no command penalities)

Also, I have had success on sweep coordination with squadrons from the same HQ and same plane model flying from the same base.

These are just unfathomable numbers of Japanese fighters compared to our game in April 43

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RE: Next Steps - 5/17/2013 11:56:38 PM   
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Brad,

Here are my thoughts from the IJ side.
1. Get all of your fighters together at one base, with an air HQ. Bigger base is better. i.e. maximize everything that will increase your sweep cohesion.
2. Target as you are: he is trying to protect Magwe, so sweep the AF's nearby. You're trying for CAP leakage. With that many fighters up, you'll be able to get 20-30 leakers. You may want to start your sweep targets farther away: Lashio or Taung Gyi.
3. Shift your sweep target randomly every day.

Once this start working, you will wear him down and there is little he can do to combat it except not fly. When he does, bring the 4E hammer and shut down a field.

As for his plane builds, his decision. What most beginner IJ player fail to realize is that there is a fixed number of HI that IJ will build over the course of the game and this is based on fuel. <period>. This total HI can be increased only if you take more fuel than the historic amount, or if you make severe cuts in the KB steaming days. Given this fixed HI, you can then only vary when you will build it. GJ has chosen to build it early and then to spend it on AC. I'm not suggesting this isn't a good strategy, but this is a finite sum issue. If he is spending it now on ahistorically high AC builds, then that means he will NOT be able to make historic builds for LCU's, Ships, and late war AC because he has not taken any more fuel than was taken historically.

Strategically, then you can easily see what you need to do (and mostly you are already doing it so just keep going).
1. Feints. Force him to steam the KB hither and yonder. If you can keep the KB steaming +20days/month you are depleting his potential HI severely. Worse, he probably won't realize the impact until too late.
2. LCU's. Keep up the pressure where you can. He doesn't have the HI to replace his losses. ARM and VEH cost 3 HI each and it take load cost of ARM/VEH to replace one device PLUS load cost of supply. Your replacements are essentially free. Get allied units that have good replacement pools in contact, and apply pressure.
3. Ships, he has undoubtedly cut way back on ship building to finance the AC. Keep you SS fleet in full gear. As you deplete his xAK's and TK's he will have to use ever more fuel inefficient ships to transport. His best TK (Tonan Whaler) is almost 2x efficient in moving fuel as the NEXT BEST, more than 4x the 3rd best ... etc. Ditto xAK's. Yusen S is really efficient, but once those are gone they get pretty inefficient fast.

In other words, without even getting into the DEI, you can put a lot of strain on his economy. But you do have to cut the DEI at near the historical date.

What about a landing in Sabang/Sibolga? If he has 1500 fighters in Burma, what does it look like in Celebs? For the IJ, it isn't how many fighters he has, he has a fixed amount of Aviation Support and that can't move quickly.

Just a bunch of thoughts, most you already know.

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RE: Next Steps - 5/18/2013 4:34:21 AM   
Q-Ball


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Pax: Good thoughts, though getting leakers doesn't work when the range is set to Zero

I need to ask the gallery: Should I ask for a dial back on the IJN Air?

This turn, the Taiyo/C unit and Ominato/C, 2 partial units, put up 86 Georges over the air in Lautem on LRCAP. That means the total combined parent unit must be at least 125 planes, probably significantly more, like 180+. Gamey?

Greyjoy is an honorable guy, and he probably doesn't think he did anything wrong. Maybe someone here can ask about the IJN air size?

I've been very decent on lack of CAP traps, but if I have this problem, I may have no choice but to take the gloves off

I think I have two courses of action:

1. Either ask the reduction of IJN air, or

2. Gamey on; 100 1-ship TFs, CAP Traps, night bombing, the works

We have a HR against restricted units crossing national borders; I let that one slide with the RTA in Burma, but I don' t think it's unreasonable to ask for changes.

Thoughts?

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RE: Next Steps - 5/18/2013 6:06:07 AM   
JocMeister

 

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I think you should ask him to resize them back the their intended size. If he has split all his squadrons and resized them to huge units I think that has the potential to unbalance a lot of stuff. How many extra fighters is that on the fronline? 500? 1000? Its certainly nothing intended by the developers.

One of the problems is that you canīt do the same simply because you lack numbers to do so until perhaps mid to late 45. Besides I donīt think you can resize a single USMC squadron until the go through their 10/44 resize to 24 planes. Same with navy until their resize to 40. You could of course resize the CVE squadrons to 90 plane units but what are you going to fill them with? Wildcats which are useless anyway. Army you canīt resize at all.

Its certainly a "creative" move by GJ but I think stuff like this only leads to problems. He already has an advantage in having bigger squadrons sizes "un resized". No need to push it. I would certainly not be happy with it unless I played a "no HR game" like Bullwinkle.

GJ is a honorable guy. If you tell him you are not too happy about it Iīm sure he will immediately resize them back without hesitation.

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RE: Next Steps - 5/18/2013 10:24:18 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I think you should ask him to resize them back the their intended size. If he has split all his squadrons and resized them to huge units I think that has the potential to unbalance a lot of stuff. How many extra fighters is that on the fronline? 500? 1000? Its certainly nothing intended by the developers.

One of the problems is that you canīt do the same simply because you lack numbers to do so until perhaps mid to late 45. Besides I donīt think you can resize a single USMC squadron until the go through their 10/44 resize to 24 planes. Same with navy until their resize to 40. You could of course resize the CVE squadrons to 90 plane units but what are you going to fill them with? Wildcats which are useless anyway. Army you canīt resize at all.

Its certainly a "creative" move by GJ but I think stuff like this only leads to problems. He already has an advantage in having bigger squadrons sizes "un resized". No need to push it. I would certainly not be happy with it unless I played a "no HR game" like Bullwinkle.

GJ is a honorable guy. If you tell him you are not too happy about it Iīm sure he will immediately resize them back without hesitation.


It is impassible for JAP player to resize airgrup's parts. To resize airgrup must be in one piece.
So, He can have several airgrups 72-81 planes(F,TB,DB) split into 3 sub-units and thats all he can do.
Q-Ball you have some marines/navy(land base) squadrons available to resize. 90 Hellcats can do a lot of good work on your side. You should look for them in PH and San Diego or on you escort carriers.


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RE: Next Steps - 5/18/2013 9:22:10 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Pax: Good thoughts, though getting leakers doesn't work when the range is set to Zero


Sure it does. Test it. It is based upon odds/percentages. If you put 500 fighter on range zero and sweep a range 1 base you will get ~15 fighters on leaky CAP. At least, my tests show it. I tested 200 fighters on range ZERO you can still snip about 5 fighters per pass. Nothing in this game is absolute. Gary is all about randomness and odds.

EDIT:I think most people think that range zero works because for a group of 36 - 45 ac, yeah, you essentially won't see leakage. But when you increase the numbers, you see the effect of the randomness. And if he is using big groups like you think, the effect might be more pronounced. I would certainly test it in combat here.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 5/18/2013 9:47:22 PM >


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RE: Next Steps - 5/18/2013 9:26:21 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I think I have two courses of action:

1. Either ask the reduction of IJN air, or

2. Gamey on; 100 1-ship TFs, CAP Traps, night bombing, the works



Don't go there yet, Brad. Work with him on reversing this misunderstanding. He'll do it.


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RE: Next Steps - 5/18/2013 10:32:00 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Its certainly a "creative" move by GJ but I think stuff like this only leads to problems. He already has an advantage in having bigger squadrons sizes "un resized". No need to push it. I would certainly not be happy with it unless I played a "no HR game" like Bullwinkle.


And lovin' it!

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RE: Lesson Learned - 5/19/2013 1:50:44 AM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

What Erik said.

I donīt use LRCAP for offensive missions because they donīt perform as well as Sweeps and fatigue is just insane making the involved squadrons unavailable for days while recovering. I also think planes on LRCAP lessen the overall effect of the sweeps. Just a feeling though.

Use sweeps only and set up 3-4 rotations of 100-200 planes each so you can rest and replenish the rotations currently not sweeping. I try and keep squadrons with the same models in the same rotation. Makes it easier when giving orders to a large number of squadrons and it feels like it might increase the chance of "coordinated sweeps". Obviously use only your best pilots in the airframes you cherish like the P47. This is at least what I do and I think Iīm doing well in the air!

Make sure you keep it up for a week or two and his fatigue and moral will be down the drain. This will lead to your KDR shooting through up to 7-8 eventually. If you can, force him to LRCAP something and then sweep that rather than his bases. That will skyrocket his fatigue. Its just about sweep, sweep, sweep. Eventually he will crack and then you can start closing his airbases.

Are you making sure your pilots have high DEF rating? Should be at least 60-70.

EDIT:

Big air bases can be closed. Either you wear him down like I described above or you can close it instantly. Iīve done that one 2-3 occasions with 500-700 fighters on CAP (Rangoon, Rabaul). You do need luck though. Just set up as many squadrons as you have to spare on Sweep, set all bombers you have available on AF attack and sacrifice something you hold dearly to the gods of AE that the Sweeps go in first!




Well, we have to disagree here. I use combined sweeps and LRCAP to great effect. As does my opponent. The benefit to LRCAP with sweeps is the LRCAP fighters can (not always) show up in multiple rounds to support sweeps, so if your sweeps go in one at at time, you will have support. And more fighting passes due to the LRCAP fighting in multiple rounds. In addition if you are sending in bombers on the same turn the LRCAP will provide them escort as well while not suffering the penalty that regular escort will. The drawback is high fatigue but this is worth it in my eyes if you can rotate units. I "never" escort bombers with anything but LRCAP. In my four year old game we have about 42,000 destroyed Japanese aircraft to 29,000 Allied. Seems about right.

I saw nothing wrong with Brad's attack except that he went in to combat vs superior numbers. A 55-85 kill ratio considering the odds is a pretty darn good result in my book. With the George and Frank having such poor service rating, all other things being equal, the Japanese will wear down. If the Japanese are not at a base with a rail line, then a couple of turns sweeping, and then as Obvert says a massive bombing attack to kill all of the disabled Franks and Georges that are stuck on the ground.

If he has too many fighters there then hit him elsewhere where there are not so many. The key is to have superior numbers when you attack and the Japanese aircraft will get chewed up.

One limitation to the Japanese player vastly expanding air groups is that he has no way of adding air support in his ground units. Something that he is short of anyways. GJ may be able to concentrate aviation support at one or two key bases but he will be short of this elsewhere. There are just only so many aircraft the he can support. If I recall the Japanese army gets one 81 plane fighter squadron and some that are in the 40-50 range. The bulk are smaller. It is the units that fit on carriers that can be expanded and you will need to discuss that with him.


< Message edited by crsutton -- 5/19/2013 2:02:43 AM >


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RE: Lesson Learned - 5/19/2013 5:20:57 AM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


Well, we have to disagree here. I use combined sweeps and LRCAP to great effect. As does my opponent. The benefit to LRCAP with sweeps is the LRCAP fighters can (not always) show up in multiple rounds to support sweeps, so if your sweeps go in one at at time, you will have support. And more fighting passes due to the LRCAP fighting in multiple rounds. In addition if you are sending in bombers on the same turn the LRCAP will provide them escort as well while not suffering the penalty that regular escort will. The drawback is high fatigue but this is worth it in my eyes if you can rotate units. I "never" escort bombers with anything but LRCAP. In my four year old game we have about 42,000 destroyed Japanese aircraft to 29,000 Allied. Seems about right.

I saw nothing wrong with Brad's attack except that he went in to combat vs superior numbers. A 55-85 kill ratio considering the odds is a pretty darn good result in my book. With the George and Frank having such poor service rating, all other things being equal, the Japanese will wear down. If the Japanese are not at a base with a rail line, then a couple of turns sweeping, and then as Obvert says a massive bombing attack to kill all of the disabled Franks and Georges that are stuck on the ground.

If he has too many fighters there then hit him elsewhere where there are not so many. The key is to have superior numbers when you attack and the Japanese aircraft will get chewed up.

One limitation to the Japanese player vastly expanding air groups is that he has no way of adding air support in his ground units. Something that he is short of anyways. GJ may be able to concentrate aviation support at one or two key bases but he will be short of this elsewhere. There are just only so many aircraft the he can support. If I recall the Japanese army gets one 81 plane fighter squadron and some that are in the 40-50 range. The bulk are smaller. It is the units that fit on carriers that can be expanded and you will need to discuss that with him.



Well, we are in agreement to disagree! I should also add that my opponent and I have agreed on not using LRCAP for escort since it circumvents the penalties for escort. I thought this was a pretty standard HR? That HR certainly makes it even harder to use LRCAP in general. At least in areas where you are conducting bombing missions as you have virtually no control over where it shows up.

Sweep, sweep sweep!


< Message edited by JocMeister -- 5/19/2013 5:45:24 AM >

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RE: Lesson Learned - 5/19/2013 5:30:45 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

One limitation to the Japanese player vastly expanding air groups is that he has no way of adding air support in his ground units. Something that he is short of anyways. GJ may be able to concentrate aviation support at one or two key bases but he will be short of this elsewhere. There are just only so many aircraft the he can support.

+1

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 5/19/2013 3:38:59 PM >


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