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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer)

 
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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 7/22/2012 9:31:16 AM   
Scar23


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Turn 6

Lots of action following the slow down for mud. The Finnish are making slow but steady progress in the north, and there is very little to report in that sector.

AGN
4 Pz Group hit the Soviet river line south of Pskov and made good gains. However, the infantry were required to breach the initial river line, and thus were not available to support the penetration. XXXXI Pz Korps swung up and to the left, and is really hanging out in the wind. I expect the korps to be isolated next turn, but they were tasked with the northern rail line into what I hope will soon be the Velikie Luki pocket. 2 Army is apply pressure to the face of the pocket and protecting AGNs right, which I hope will free 16 Army to follow in behind the panzers.


AGC
Following heavy air reconnaissance, I decided to head right to the land bridge, and not attempt a river assault in the Smolensk area. The initial assaults with the infantry and lead armored units were costly, but a hole was punched through the land bridge. Both Panzer korps of 2 PZ Group were able to exploit and they were sent on a northeasterly path to cut the southern rail line into the Velikie Luki pocket. I do not believe the panzer spearhead is in much danger of being isolated, but they are far afield and supplies will be an issue.

AGS
AGS also made big gains this turn, and the area is best described in two sections. The northern most area, across from Kiev, was left unmolested. This area seems to be were the Russians had most of their strength, with a good screen out front, and forces digging in at Kiev and along the Dnepr river. 6 Army is still struggling to move forward, have just finally reduced the last Russian pockets from the initial battles on the frontier. Somewhere in the neighborhood of seventeen divisions were destroyed or surrendered this turn, the majority of them coming from the south.

I was thus left with the prospect of a straight shot toward Kiev, through the Soviets strongest line, and then a second fight at the river, or a wide flanking move toward the south. I decided the best course was south, and 1 Pz Group hit the Soviet line west of Kirovograd. Both Kirovograd and Krivoi Rog fell to the lead elements of XIV Pz Korps, and after the initial line was breached there was no second line nor were the cities defended. It appears 1 Pz Group is into the Soviet operational rear areas. Denepropetrovsk and Zaparozhye are the prize, if they can be taken quickly, as both still have plenty of factories that have not been moved.

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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 7/22/2012 9:31:48 AM   
Scar23


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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 7/22/2012 9:32:33 AM   
Scar23


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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 7/22/2012 9:33:13 AM   
Scar23


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AGS (north)






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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 7/22/2012 9:33:46 AM   
Scar23


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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 7/22/2012 9:34:24 AM   
Scar23


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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 7/22/2012 2:22:25 PM   
Klydon


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I think I see a lot of cut off panzers on the northern half of the map. Not sure why you would put your panzers in that situation. Granted you can get them back into supply, but they won't have any supplies/fuel to speak of. I also don't know that you will be bagging many units either unfortunately.

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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 7/23/2012 4:02:55 AM   
Fishbed


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Yes, considering it could always be a random mud next turn, I would have gone for the mega Velikie pocket way instead... A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. The Pskov maneuver seems too narrow for its own good, and I am not sure that you deployed sufficient recon assets for such a push.

< Message edited by Fishbed -- 7/23/2012 4:04:19 AM >


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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 7/30/2012 8:21:44 AM   
Scar23


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Turn 7/8
For the most part very little to report this turn, as the infantry is still making its way forward in the AGC and AGS sectors, while AGN captures Pskov and fights its way toward Leningrad. Another mistake from last turn comes back to haunt me, as I was unable to open a path to a motorized unit in the AGN sector. I flew in as much supply as possible, and I will just have to hope the Soviets will be unable to cause the unit to surrender. I had hoped some big slashing movements deep into the Russians interior would find some running room, but it was amazing how many divisions the Soviets had on hand and were able to push out and around my panzer spearheads. I debated on turning 4 Pz Group southward for a Velikie Luki pocket, but opted for a deep lunge at Leningrad, as I thought if I turned the panzers south for the Velikie Luki pocket, I was giving up on Leningrad… I really would like to have turn 7 back to do over, as I should have gone for the Velikie Luki pocket rather than a deep penetration towards Leningrad, it really cost me, and allowed a large concentration of Soviet units to escape isolation.


Turn 9
I finally had some luck this turn in both AGS and AGN sectors. Maybe the big risks I took on turn 7 paid off, as the Soviets were very aggressive in coming forward and trying to surround my spearheads and it might have left them a bit thin in places as a result.

AGN
4 Pz Group breached the Soviet defenses northwest of Novgorod and race toward Leningrad, only to find much of the city lightly defended. I am not sure if I was able to isolate the defenders, as the ports along Lake Ladoga were not captured, but I hope the Finnish may have been activated. At any rate, this is good news, and may make up for some early mistakes in this sector.

AGC
This was the problem sector this turn, as 2 Pz Group was out of position and low on fuel, while 3 Pz Group was little better. I wanted to wait another turn before making AGC’s next movement, but with AGS getting its orders to cross the Dnepr this turn, AGC had to start its southerly drive now. My plan with AGC is to now drive south and east towards Bryansk and threaten a link up with AGS. I don’t have much hope they can meet with a mega pocket before the Soviets can escape, but it should unhinge all of the Soviet positions to their west.

AGS
It appears that the Soviets expected a push towards Dnepropetrovsk, and I may have crossed the river in an unexpected place. With the help of LIV Korps, 1 Pz Group crossed the Dnepr river east of Cherkassey and made another deep strike towards the north east and the prize of Kursk. Had I waited a turn, and with buildup, I might have made it all the way to Kursk, but I am satisfied with the more modest gains. Both Sumy and Poltava fell, and the Soviets units around Kiev are now at risk. I expect and hasty pull back towards the east, but the Russians may keep with their aggressive play and try to tar baby my panzer spearhead.

Finally in the far south, AGA is steadily pushing east, although there are no German divisions to give the army group punch, and the only help they can expect is from the Italians.

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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 7/30/2012 8:22:17 AM   
Scar23


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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 7/30/2012 8:22:52 AM   
Scar23


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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 7/30/2012 8:23:32 AM   
Scar23


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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 7/30/2012 11:24:53 AM   
janh

 

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This does look a lot more promising now. Maybe a large Kiev pocket, which would be direly needed it seems. Good luck!

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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 7/31/2012 2:21:30 AM   
Fishbed


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I didn't bury you yet, mind you :)

Good show in Leningrad though. You certainly had him surprised (and still there were units there, so you did good at battle too)
Still the basis of one of your penetrations invite heavy counters - not at the north or in the center, where your bottleneck is firmly held, but more so at the south. If he has units and plays like he likes to play, Idaho will put everything in the balance and try to rape your guys down there.

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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 8/3/2012 8:45:59 AM   
Scar23


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Turn 10
The Russians are sure catching some breaks as mud hits the north Soviet zone. This wouldn’t be all bad except it catches all of AGC’s armor and two infantry armies. This unfortunate weather event will allow most of the Soviet divisions that were along the Dnepr to escape encirclement.

AGN
The Soviets retreated toward the city, and it looks like I will have no choice but to try and dig them out. The mud hit just east of Leningrad, so there was no hope of a quick push to the supply ports. I moved up some infantry into the lower part of the city and will try to take the city by storm next turn.

AGC
The panzer groups and two infantry armies were caught in a pocket of mud, killing any chance of completing the encirclement of the escaping Soviet divisions from the Dnepr line. The only bright side I see is that the Russians are on the run, and any line they try to take will not have been prepared in advance. I still plan to try and follow the original Moscow from the southwest idea, but next turn will be telling.

AGS
The Soviets ran their divisions from the Dnepr line towards the east, and without AGC helping close things off, most of them will escape. The panzers from 1 Pz Group were low on fuel and a long way from the railheads, so there was little they could achieve. Elements of XXXXVI and XXXXVIII Pz Korps pushed 10-20 more kms north, but it won’t be enough to slow the Russian retreat.

Turn 11

AGN
Suprisingly, the Soviets don't seem to be trying to defend the lake ports east of Leningrad. Good gains were made by AGN as Sviritsa is the only supply port still active for the Leningrad Defenders. Barring any unforeseen catastrophes, 4 Pz Group should capture the final port next turn. I really need 4 Pz Group elsewhere, so I will push hard to get them off the line and railing to AGC or AGS.

AGC
AGC is facing a carpet of Soviet units. I looked for a weak spot or two but didn’t really see anything promising, so the panzers moved into position close the Soviet MLR while the infantry from 4 and 9 Army’s closed the distance. One issue I am running into seems to be that the Russians are running faster than my infantry units can follow, and the panzers are at the end of the supply line, so getting good MPs is hard.

AGS
In the south, 1 Pz Group pushed on towards Kursk, but it is low on fuel with rail lines way back on the other side of the Dnepr. The infantry is closing fast, but I am going to have to pause soon to allow the rail heads to close up.

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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 8/3/2012 8:49:45 AM   
Scar23


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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 8/3/2012 8:50:30 AM   
Scar23


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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 8/6/2012 9:26:20 PM   
Scar23


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Turn 12

AGN
4 Pz Group finds itself low on fuel, and the Russians have thrown 7-8 new divisions into the front to protect the last Leningrad port. I was able to move up next to the city, and cleared out a few divisions, but it will take another turn or two before I am ready to take the port.

AGC
Most of army group center is now closed up on the Soviet lines, with the Pz Groups ready for their next action. I am a little unsure of where that will be, as to the south 4 Pz Group is still low on fuel and may not be ready to help 2 and 3 Pz Groups on an attack to the east. I will have to see if the Soviets adjust or stay in their lines.

AGS
Kursk fell, but little else has happened. 6 Army is still struggling to catch up to the panzers and the rail line is a long ways away. I had hoped to make three attacks next turn, with 1 Pz Group, and both panzer groups from AGC, but the panzers may not have the fuel to pull it off, I will have to wait and see and then plan accordingly.

AGA
In the far south, the Rumanians are across the Dnepr and will try to close off the Crimea next turn from the north. I detached the 49th Mountain korps to assist the Rumanians, but this formation will be sorely missed by AGS.

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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 8/6/2012 9:26:48 PM   
Scar23


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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 8/6/2012 9:27:29 PM   
Scar23


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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 8/6/2012 11:35:03 PM   
Flaviusx


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Scar, you're doing the Leningrad the hard way, man. Just force the Neva and be done with it, forget the other Lake Ladoga ports, the only one you need is that on the isthmus, and it's far easier to take. You're prolonging the campaign by AGN and prejudicing operations elsewhere as a result. The longer PG4 spins its wheels up there, the less likely you are to take other objectives.



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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 8/7/2012 3:21:47 AM   
Klydon


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Yeah, being on the east side of the Volkov and in the swamps doesn't help your logistics either.

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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 8/7/2012 5:40:21 AM   
Scar23


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Thanks Flaviusx. I thought I had to take all the lake ports to isolate the city. So is the city on reduced supply now?

Yeah Klydon, my guys are not getting much fuel over there...

< Message edited by Scar23 -- 8/7/2012 5:44:42 AM >

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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 8/7/2012 5:50:37 AM   
Scar23


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Turn 13

AGN
The final Leningrad lake port fell this turn, so 4 Pz Group has been pulled off the line and will be railed out next turn. I went ahead and gave the group refit orders to allow them to quickly gain replacements.

AGC
The carpet of Russian troops to the west of AGC has confounded me. They are in good defensive terrain, with river networks snaking through their positions, which make attacking through costly. As my plan has always been to approach Moscow from the south, I sent the AGC panzer formations to assist 1 Pz Group in isolating a large pocket of Soviets around Orel. I need to somehow turn the Russians again, and get make the battle more fluid now that my rail network has finally caught up.

AGS
1 Pz Group with help from AGC has pocketed a large force around the city of Orel. The supply network is still farther off than I wanted, so anything more ambitious than this quick encirclement seems out of the question. I suspect the Russians will make another pull back, and depending on their new lines, I will know if I want to head further east before swinging north, or make the run toward Moscow now.

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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 8/7/2012 6:05:03 AM   
Scar23


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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 8/7/2012 8:47:56 AM   
Flaviusx


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Scar, as I understand it, the ability to supply Leningrad progressively degrades as you take the Lake Ladoga ports.

But if you really want to cut the Gordian knot for good in one shot, take Osinovets. Because without it, it doesn't matter how many Lake Ladoga ports you hold on to. They can't funnel supply to Leningrad without a destination port.

Furthermore, Osinovets is flat out easier to take. It's one port. And crossing the Neva is a gimme if you've organized AGN correctly. Once you reach the Neva river, it's simply a matter of crossing it. And even with a level 3 fort and reserves, sooner or later, the Axis will make the crossing and Osinovets is dead meat. No three Soviet divisions in 1941, no matter how good, well led, or backed up with reserves and SUs will prevent a crossing of the Neva. (They can delay said crossing...until you fail your reserve rolls. And they will fail at some point, even if you place your A team leaders along the entire command chain.) The Ladoga ports are a sideshow and the hard way to starve Leningrad. You cut off the city several turns ago and have been in a position to end the matter since then.


< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 8/7/2012 8:51:33 AM >


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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 8/8/2012 5:53:55 PM   
Scar23


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Ok great, thanks for the advice. It will take some repositioning, but I will start the assaults now. It has definately cost me two turns on my adventure to get all the Lake ports to the east of the city.

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Post #: 57
RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 8/8/2012 8:03:41 PM   
Walloc

 

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Edit. I forgotten u hadnt take the Northern most port(salmi) cuz soviets stopped the finns early. So forget the above(which isnt there any more) do as Flavio says!

< Message edited by Walloc -- 8/8/2012 8:09:31 PM >

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RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 8/10/2012 7:33:00 AM   
Scar23


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Turn 14

AGN
Pavlovo fell to the 291 ID this turn, so I should be able to start reducing Leningrad next turn. 41 PzK entrained and is headed towards AGC. Unfortunately LVI PzK was needed to help with the assaults into Leningrad, and will not be entrained till next turn. I am unsure of the best course for AGN once Leningrad falls. I would like to keep pushing east, to threaten the forces holding up the Finnish, but I will have to wait and see.

AGC
The Russians were able to open a corridor to the isolated units around Orel, so AGC rested 3 Pz Group, while the net was tightened around the trapped units. I don’t ebelive the Russians will be able to break into the trapped units this turn, and the reduction of the pocket is necessary to free up the panzers for the next mission. I was able to get a good count this turn, and it looks like 14 divisions plus an AT bde. Not a huge haul, but it will help.

AGS
XIV PzK was needed to hold the right shoulder of the encirclement at Orel, while the remained of 1 Pz Group repositioned a bit to the south. My plan is to try for one more large encirclement before the mud hit, then be ready for the last push when the ground hardens.

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Post #: 59
RE: Scar attacks the Soviet Union (Scar v IdahoNYer) - 8/10/2012 7:34:09 AM   
Scar23


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AGN

Thanks for the tips guys, I went ahead and struck right into Leningrad this turn.






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