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RE: Ger 1941 High Water Mark

 
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RE: Ger 1941 High Water Mark - 9/3/2012 10:30:21 AM   
randallw

 

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This is a funny looking map, with pretty big chunks of terrain taken by the Axis in the south, yet poor progress elsewhere.

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RE: Ger 1941 High Water Mark - 9/3/2012 3:33:33 PM   
Klydon


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Interesting game for sure. Scar made a good recovery from his initial invasion woes, but has some issues now with an over extended front.

I have to believe the panzer corps in the Crimea is a raid to rip up the rail lines to prevent the Russians from attacking out during the worst of the blizzard. If not, I agree it is a foolish place to risk 2 elite panzer divisions that are up to strength.

I also think an opportunity is available to make Scar really sweat his lines of communications to Leningrad. It is not far to launch a short drive towards Pskov and you can be assured just about every German runs their rail repair efforts through that area, so it is a sensitive area for sure.

I think the overall winter offensive plan is fairly good, but would point out the area of attack is generally where the Germans will be willing to give ground, so it will be hard to keep them engaged in any meaningful way. One of the goals for the Russians is to weaken German moral while building their own and also generate a lot of guard units. I don't see red on the map yet, so that isn't necessarily a good thing.

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RE: Ger 1941 High Water Mark - 9/3/2012 4:10:21 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer







Great job, this is the text book tactic on trapping and destoring axis units. You have pinned down 15 German divisions, I am sure some are pz and hq's but most are infantry divisions.

Over the next 2 turns you will completely pocket many and destory them causing the snow ball effect of 75% of the replasements going to the reformed units. 2by3 claims this is not how it works, but I posted screen shots more then once from more then one game.

Returning german formations get 8k to 11k replasements the first turn back before you can turn of the refit.

This in turn causes:

1. German infantry cv to be the same in January as December.
2. Causes more pocketed units in January
3. causing more pocketed units in February.
4. causing massive loses in german infantry morale
5. Causing a gimpy German 1942.

At some point I would think 2by3 would patch this exploit. I have been pointing out for over a yr, but until they do exploit the sht out of it along with the cav exploit. The blizzard is not historical at all in it present form because mostly of this snowball exploit.

The same rolling replasement exploit I use during 41 summer.

1.Destory the Lvov pocket as slowly as possible.
2. Gimps SHC front line units from turn 10 to 17
3. Most replasements go to returning units(with crap morale)
4. Makes grinding of high SHC CV stacks have a snowball effect as SHC morale crashes ( route's are huge)
5. Morale can't recover as units have to be rushed to hot areas, unlike turns 1-9.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 9/3/2012 4:12:06 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

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RE: Ger 1941 High Water Mark - 9/4/2012 7:27:24 PM   
IdahoNYer


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quote:

I think the overall winter offensive plan is fairly good, but would point out the area of attack is generally where the Germans will be willing to give ground, so it will be hard to keep them engaged in any meaningful way. One of the goals for the Russians is to weaken German moral while building their own and also generate a lot of guard units. I don't see red on the map yet, so that isn't necessarily a good thing.


Klydon - I think he'll try and hold the shoulders of his bulge - especially around Kharkov in the south and Bryansk-Orel on the north side. Once those are bypassed/fallen, THEN he'll make haste westward out of the bulge. He's been digging heavily I think, especially on the north side. He wants to hold here for a springboard into Summer '42.

And yes, I need to work on getting Guard units. Don't have any yet...

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Post #: 154
RE: Ger 1941 High Water Mark - 9/4/2012 7:28:51 PM   
IdahoNYer


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quote:

Great job, this is the text book tactic on trapping and destoring axis units. You have pinned down 15 German divisions, I am sure some are pz and hq's but most are infantry divisions.


Pelton - he's not quite pinned yet - I think he'll pull back which will abandon some good fortifications without a fight. I'm good with that!

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Post #: 155
RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/4/2012 9:29:22 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Turn 25; Dec 4, 1941.......Blizzard

Blizzard season is finally here! Here is the information roll up, starting with Industry.

Industry Moved: Rostov 4xHI

Force modernization: 11xCAV Corps formed

No major German forward progress in the last month, Axis forces content with eliminating the last elements of the Voronezh Pocket, moving into the Crimea and a quick thrust offensive SE of Kharkov.

Good to see a number or armament factories no longer being damaged.




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< Message edited by IdahoNYer -- 9/5/2012 7:25:37 PM >

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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/4/2012 9:34:01 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Noteworthy leadership change is Zhukov taking over the Volkov Front - the Blizzard Offensive main effort.

Forces available keeps getting better and better. (These info screens before Soviet moves this turn)

German manpower, guns and panzers all show reduced numbers for the first time in the conflict. Soviet numbers show good increases which should get better.




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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/4/2012 9:37:07 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Soviet losses for the month of Nov weren't that bad at all. German losses were also realatively light, although they reached the half million mark. I expect both to significantly increase in Dec of course.

Very few Soviet tank losses are due to the lack of tanks in the front lines - the vast majority of Soviet Tank Bdes are still forming with new equipment.






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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/4/2012 9:37:58 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Lastly, the destroyed units. Nothing dramatic here.....




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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/5/2012 7:17:30 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Soviet winter offensive begins!

34 attacks are initiated across the front, most of which are against the Voronzeh Bulge. All but 3 are successful. Good begining.

North of the Bulge, not much combat.

Northwestern Front's 27th and 11th Armies move to make contact with the German lines. Unfortunately, the Germans remained in their fortified positions and did not follow the Soviets when we pulled back earlier.

Kalinin Front occuppies abandoned German positions and infiltrates between fortifications. One hard lesson the Germans are learning in the Blizzard - fortifications a hex or two apart can be infiltrated and compromised. Once that is accomplished, there is a tough choice - abandon the fort to re-establish a shorter line, or try and hold and risk being cut off.

In any case, 22nd Army focuses on retaking Veliki Luki, while the 24th and 20th Armies merely look to maintain pressure and push the Germans further west from Moscow.

Didn't expect much progress here as both of these Fronts were not noticeably reinforced for any offensive action - in fact some of the better experienced rifle divisions were withdrawn to fight in the south. Any gains here are bonuses.





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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/5/2012 7:34:42 PM   
IdahoNYer


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On the north side of the Voronezh Bulge, slow, but steady progress is made.

STAVKA's 49th Army occupies abandoned exposed German fortified hexes, and will attempt to threaten Smolensk.

Western Front occupies abandoned positions as well, and its 10th Army makes good progress NW of Bryansk, as does STAVKA's 54th Army.

Bryansk Front's 21st Army liberates Bryansk without a fight, and keeps pressure on withdrawing German forces, but encounters a panzer korps which will slow progress significantly. 19th Army makes slow progress as well, while 43rd Army moves up to support.

Volkov Front is officially activated with the 34th and 48th Armies attacking abreast. Heavy fighting near Orel as the Germans commit the 7th Pz in reserve to hold positions. 1st Shock Army prepares to commit.

Behind both of these Fronts, 52nd and 55th Armies remain in reserve, prepared to commit to reinforce success.

Towards the tip of the Bulge, 32nd, 50th and 30th Armies make limited supporting attacks.

Overall, progress is slow but steady as we force the Germans from there prepared fortifications. I expect better progress as the forts are cleared in the next week. Will look to commit 1st Shock Army near Orel shortly.




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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/5/2012 7:42:52 PM   
IdahoNYer


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At the eastern end of the Bulge, STAVKA's 37th and 51st Armies make limite attacks against light opposition, while maintaining presence in the Voronezh fortifications until relieved by brigades.

I don't think the Germans will try to hold the Voronezh Bulge once his fortifications on the north and south shoulders are compromised - there will be no "pocket". Therefore, we'll apply as much pressure as possible to cause casualties from the eastern tip as well.

Better than expected progress from the 51st Army - but nothing substantial available to follow it up....




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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/5/2012 7:53:07 PM   
IdahoNYer


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SE of Kharkov, both Southwestern and Caucasus Fronts make fairly good progress in the attack.

Southwestern Front's 18th Army masses against Rumanian Mtn Bdes and a German Bde, while its 5th Army begins to attack east of Kharkov. The 26th Army prepares to commit in the center.

Caucasus Front's 29th Army make good progress against a Hungarian Bde screen line, and the Soviets advance 30 miles.
The 61st Army masses and attacks a single German infantry division with good success.

Southern Front's 16th Army - still recovering from the battering it recieved in the German winter offensive, supports the flank of the Caucasus Front's attack.

Still forming, the 2nd Shock Army will activate next week as part of the Caucasus Front.

Overall, initial progress is good considering about 1/4 of the attacking forces are not assembled yet in this area.






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< Message edited by IdahoNYer -- 9/5/2012 7:54:10 PM >

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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/5/2012 8:00:07 PM   
IdahoNYer


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In the Crimea, what started out as a cavalry reconnaissance, has turned into a fairly large scale attack.

From Sevastopol, Coastal Army advances and attacks a weak Jaeger Division, while maintaining a garrison of the Sevastopol fortifications.

From the Kerch Strait, 56th Army finds Rumanians in the line and takes adantage by launching a number of hasty attacks which push the Rumanians westward.

I expected the Crimea to be quiet, now there may be opportunity here....




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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/5/2012 11:52:25 PM   
Klydon


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Putting some heat on Pskov would not cost you a lot of forces and it isn't that far, but the effect it would have on the Leningrad area would be fairly substancial or at least make him consider diverting forces there.

I am really shocked he got into the Crimea with that much infantry (especially Romanians) and expected to do something. Nothing at the bottlenecks.

I guess this is probably his first blizzard as the Axis, so the learning curve is back in place.

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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/9/2012 11:38:08 PM   
IdahoNYer


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quote:

Putting some heat on Pskov would not cost you a lot of forces and it isn't that far, but the effect it would have on the Leningrad area would be fairly substancial or at least make him consider diverting forces there


Yeah, I'll see if I can pull a few Rifle Divisions from somewhere to reinforce NW Front to add some pressure in the north. Leningrad Front isn't doing much facing the Finns and can probably spare some troops.

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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/10/2012 12:09:44 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Turn 26; Dec 11, 1941.......Blizzard

Industry moved: Bryansk area 3xHI, Taganrog 2xHI

Offensive operations continue in blizzard conditions, focused on destroying German formations and reducing the Voronezh Bulge.

Overall progress is better than expected in most areas, but not the main effor of the Volkov Front's attacks of course. Still, of 70 attacks launched, only 10 were held.

Here in the northern end of the main line, it remains pretty quiet. Facing the Finns, Leningrad Front remains on the defensive.

Northwestern Front, while still understrength and largely on the defensive, will probe - and use infiltration between fortifications if hexes are left vacant - in order to force the Germans to move troops here where they can be better used elsewhere.

While threatening Pskov looks tempting, the offensive focus will remain in "the bulge", and I'm reluctant to many more forces here. A major force constraint I've set is attempting to maintain existing fortifications. As such, all newly arrived rifle divsions (with the usual less than 34 expeience), and all rifle brigades (limited at 50% TOE to conserve manpower) move to garrrison these forts.

Regardless of the punishment inflicted during the blizzard, I fully expect a renewed German attack come summer.




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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/10/2012 12:30:22 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Kalinin Front made suprisingly good progress this turn. Designed as strictly holding attacks - in order to tie down German forces, the Front has actually made, in some areas, substantial progress.

22nd Army, the weakest in the Front, and the one furthest west, attacked toward Veliki Luki where I expected a bitter contest for the Lvl 3 fortified city. Instead, the Germans pulled out, leaving only the fortified area which surrendered. The Army was also able to actually exploit that victory by opening what looks like a 30 mile gap in the German lines. The biggest problem here is not expecting success here - nothing really ready to commit here - which I am currently re-assessing. I have the uncommitted 55th Army near Tula - could be better used here to threaten Vitebsk??

24th and 20th Armies find the going a bit tougher, but still not only maintain pressure on the Germans, but make forward progress.

STAVKA's 49th Army, making basically a frontal assault towards Smolensk, found its progress, as expected slow and costly....






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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/10/2012 12:56:58 AM   
IdahoNYer


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On the north side of the Voronezh Bulge itself, progress is mixed. Overall, good....but not where I expected it, nor where I really wanted it - but progress is progress.

Western Front, attacking strickly in support of the Bryansk Front to secure its western Flank, instead has apparently broken through the German lines....

While its 3rd Army has almost culminated already, its 4th Army seems to have penetrated the front through the XXIV PzKps area. Also, its 10th Army is making good progress as well, although progress is a bit tougher to achieve. Still, there is great potential here.

Directly supporting the flank of the Bryansk Front, the 54th Army finds resistance tough, but makes slow and steady progress.

Bryansk Front's two lead Armies, the 21st and 19th, are already showing signs of heavy loss for limited gains against increasingly heavy opposition. So much so, its 43rd Army begins to pass forward to allow some units to pull back and refit. Across the Front, progress is characterized by slow forward progress against increasingly tough oppostion with heavy losses.

Volkov Front's progress is similarly slow, steady and costly. It appears that the Germans intend to try and hold Orel as they have about a PzKps holding the city, and have added significant infantry strength in the area. While we can probably batter our way southward (inflicting and receiving heavy losses), a breakthrough is not likely.

Towards the tip of the bulge, the 34th, 50th and 30th Armies (STAVKA) maintain contact with German units as they begin to withdraw in this area.




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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/10/2012 1:11:25 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Near the tip of the bulge by Voronezh itself, 37th and 51st Armies launch attacks to maintain pressure on the Germans and collapse the tip of the bulge. Unlike the area north of Voronezh where the Germans pulled back, here, the Germans did not withdraw, but also, did not have significant fortifications. While not particularly strong, both of these STAVKA armies made reasonably good progress at a reasonable loss rate.




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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/10/2012 1:27:28 AM   
IdahoNYer


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On the south side of the bulge, tempo of operations seem to pick up as German resistance seems to lessen - quite the reverse of the north side. Totally unexpected, the Germans seem to have a screen of forces rather than a steady line. The mighty 1st Panzer Armee is conspicuously absent for the moment....

Southwestern Front's two leading armies, the 5th and 18th, make good progress, and offer an opportunity for 26th Army to pass forward in the center to take advantage of their success. SW Front will continue to orient just north of Belgorod.

Caucasus Front also has success. Its 29th Army maintains forward progress and begins to pass 2nd Shock Army to its north, to avoid the anticipated heavy defenses of Kharkov. 61st Army focuse on isolating the 170 In Div which slows some of the momentum down.

South of the Caucasus Front, Southern Front's weak 16th Army also manages to assist in isolating a German division, the 73rd Infantry Div.

With Caucasus Front's success across its entire frontage, 57th Army is activated and moves to insert itself between the Southern and Caucasus Fronts - which should allow Caucasus Front to avoid Kharkov entirely.






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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/10/2012 4:08:31 AM   
Klydon


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70 attacks is good. If you can keep that type of tempo (and success rate) up, the Germans will be a mess and the Russians will get some good moral building out of it (not to mention some guards I would think).

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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/10/2012 4:51:39 AM   
IdahoNYer


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quote:

70 attacks is good. If you can keep that type of tempo (and success rate) up, the Germans will be a mess and the Russians will get some good moral building out of it (not to mention some guards I would think).


Hoping to get my first guard unit soon!! Have one rifle division with a 7-0 record. Unfortunately, many units with a few wins have LOTS of losses from the summer campaign.

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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/10/2012 4:55:37 AM   
IdahoNYer


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At the end of the line is the Southern Front - probably the weakest Front along the line, as well as covering the longest length of frontage.

In any case, I don't expect much of it if forced to attack a solid line. However, we'll advance its 9th and 38th Armies until we find that solid line, as the Germans appear to have positions somewhere to the west.

9th Army advances and makes contacts with the Italians near the Dniepr Bend and pushes them back a bit.

38th Army finds Rumanians and pushes them back as well. If Axis allies are in the line, this could actually be enough of a Soviet force to do some damage....




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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/10/2012 5:02:08 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Lastly is the Crimean Sideshow.

Also anticipated as merely holding attacks, the Transcaucasus Front's Coastal and 56th Armies make solid progress against Axis forces in the Crimea - apparently caught in between offensive action and establishing a defense in the Crimea after breaking into the penninsula.

Coastal Army makes some progress against stiffer resistance. 56th Army basically routs two Rumanian Corps and even pushes back the 2nd Pz - not expecting contact that early is my guess.

Will continue to push in the Crimea, tying down troops that could be used elsewhere at minimal cost.




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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/12/2012 5:28:24 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Turn 27; Dec 18, 1941........Blizzard

Industry moved: Voronezh 3xHI, Kerch 2xHI

Overall offensive operations continue, although the combination of increasing German resistance and increasing Soviet fatigue and casualties combine to slow progress. Still, of 54 attacks made, only 5 were held.

But prior to the Soviet attacks, the Germans managed 4 counterattacks - rescuing their 2 encircled divisions. Nicely done!

Here the two northern most Fronts, there is still little activity. Northwestern Front begins "infiltrating" between German positions, but we still don't really have much combat power to exploit any success - or really, even to take down these lvl 3 forts if the Germans decide to hold tough.

But perhaps we can draw some German troops up here, away from the main events to the south.




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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/12/2012 5:42:49 AM   
IdahoNYer


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On the north side of the "Bulge", slow progress is the order of the day. Kalinin Front and the 49th Army, finds the roads to Smolensk very heavily defended and makes little progress. 22nd Army continues to advance, but is rapidly being over extended.

Western Front continues to have success, slowed more by fatigue than determined German resistance as it shifts its advance to a more southerly direction.

Both Bryansk and Volkov Fronts attempt to shift some fresh divisions into the fight, and pull worn divisions back to refit. This shifting, in itself, slows momentum - also slowed a bit by heavy resistance. Still, Orel is abandoned and falls to the Volkov Front.

And probably the best news - Bryansk Front has the honor of having the first division in the Red Army named as a "Guards Rifle Div" - the former 113th Rifle. Hopefully many more will follow.




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< Message edited by IdahoNYer -- 9/12/2012 5:43:34 AM >

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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/12/2012 5:55:47 AM   
IdahoNYer


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On the southern and eastern side of "the Bulge", attacks continue. At the eastern tip of the bulge, the STAVKA armies attack and beat on Rumanians left as a delaying action - attacking to collapse the bulge from the tip.

Southwestern Front does well attacking well east of the heavier defenses nearer Kharkov.

Caucasus Front attempts to skirt the heavier defenses by shifting further east, but still encounters heavy defenses - I think we've found the 1st Pz Armee. The shifting of forces takes momentum away from the attack, and STAVKA's 57th Army is now in the line, but I don't see how at least one, if not two of Caucasus Front's armies will have to close on Kharkov - which looks to be very heavily defended.

Southern Front advanced to contact, and seems to have made contact with the German/Rumanian line in fortified positions, the lacks the forces to break that line. Southern Front, except for limited support of the Caucasus Front, has probably culminated.





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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/12/2012 6:01:58 AM   
IdahoNYer


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At the southern end of the overall front, progress remains steady.

Trans-Caucasus Front's two realatively weak armies continue to clear the Crimea against a mixed German-Rumanian force.
As long as he is south of the narrow entrance to the Crimea, we'll keep attacking....a good place to grow guards!




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RE: Blizzard 1941 - 9/12/2012 1:35:05 PM   
Klydon


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Good job so far. You can tell Scar doesn't have much experience with the blizard yet. Having Romanian units (and other Axis allies) in reach of Russians during the winter is a recipie for lots of Russian victories. Given all that you are running into, I wonder how much he has withdrawn from theater. My guess would be not much.

One area you might look to pull more troops from is far north from Leningrad front. You should not care if the Finns decide to launch an attack and you can certainly use the troops elsewhere for the first part of the winter offensive.

If you have not noticed, the mountain divisions offer better mobility in the snow, so I would look employ what I had in the most opportune areas.

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