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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

 
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/5/2012 6:56:07 PM   
IdahoNYer


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From: NYer living in Boise, ID
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quote:

I'll admit to being wrong on this game - Scar has turned it around to some extent. Still, you have managed the hat trick of keeping your army intact while still fighting relatively forward. IMO its yours to lose - Leningrad will fall no matter what anyway, and you have him a long way from Moscow, the holding of which seems to be the definition of a successful Soviet '41 at this point.


Fully agree - Leningrad is lost and Moscow can be held - preserving the army is the most important task right now. I'm not going to go into a full retreat - don't have the depth to do that anyway if I want to hold Moscow. Trying to avoid a mass encirclement - an army or greater - is the paramount task.

(in reply to hfarrish)
Post #: 91
RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/5/2012 7:07:32 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Turn 11; Aug 28, 1941.........Clear

With clear weather across the front, I expected a renewal of the panzer thrusts in the center on a Tula-Moscow axis, a grinding fight to begin reducing Leningrad (while the panzers prepared to thrust toward Moscow in the near future) in the north, and supply to limit the advance in the south.

None of that happened!!!

For industry this turn, I pull out 7xArm from Kharkov, 2xArm from Kursk, and 14xIL2 from Voronezh just in case. This leaves the SU2 and 14xveh (plus the HI which I'm not worrying about across the board) in Kharkov, which I expect to be lost. I pulled some of the vehicles out earlier, and the SU2s are obsolete anyway.

For the screen shot below, it shows before Soviet moves. Here in the north, I'm very surprised. My Leningrad defenses are, in my opinion, ripe for the taking. A level 2 fort on the "back door" across a major river is definately forcible. Instead, Scar elects to isolate first by taking out the ports on the east bank of Lake Lagoda. This catches me with weak defenses on the right of the 28th Army, and he pushes within 20 miles of Sviritsa, the last remaining port in Soviet hands. He may also be driving this way to get me to pull back the 7th Army from its positions blocking the Finns up north.

In any case, I take what I can get - his panzers are being run down driving AWAY from Moscow, and Leningrad is left alone for another week. On the down side, I'll need to pull forces up here that I'd rather have left in the Moscow area.





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< Message edited by IdahoNYer -- 8/5/2012 8:18:57 PM >

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/5/2012 7:21:33 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Screen shot after the Soviet moves.

This is what is fun about playing the Soviets in 1941 - creating armies out of thin air! 55th Army is created and Vatutin is placed in command to hold the last port on Lake Lagoda as long as possible. Most of the troops are pretty fresh - either railed from the east or from the Moscow area. Still a good dozen formations are provided to Vatutin, plus artillery and sappers to establish a defense. This includes a tank division shipped from Leningrad. 7th Army sends a division south, just in case...

I'm also able to shift a few divisions in the Leningrad area that were in the fortifications outside the city. The city is better prepared for defense than a turn ago, and as long as I hold a port, it will stay in supply. I can do that for probably another turn. But, he's going to have to bull his way through bad terrain, and probably expand his corridor along the lake - that is going to take forces that could be better used elsewhere.

I'll establish another army under STAVKA control here as a backstop to begin establishing a line to prevent his future drive toward Moscow. Its coming, but better in mid September than in August!




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< Message edited by IdahoNYer -- 8/5/2012 8:23:22 PM >

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/5/2012 7:42:20 PM   
IdahoNYer


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The center remained quiet - I don't think there are ANY panzers due west of Moscow - all seem to be south of Smolensk oriented Southeast.....

Of course, what is good for the Moscow defenses, are bad for the Ukraine. I figured that Army Group Center and Army Group South would link up this turn, but the panzers in the south headed northeast instead of north - I still have a gap. Perhaps he figured Guderian's tanks could close the gap themselves, and move the panzers in the south first - in any case, we can still pull most of these forces out.

Screen shot before Soviet moves....

Army Group Center's attacks are limited to pushing aside the cavalry screen - three cavalry divisions hold up all the panzers!!! They all eventually rout (eastwards which helps), but they take a number of retreats first, expending APs on the apparently fatigued or fuel starved panzers. I really expected them to penetrate the Bryansk Front in force. Didn't happen.

Southwestern Front's 5th Army wasn't as fortunate. Here, I expected minimal panzer momentum due to fuel and fatigue - and instead he blitzed forward over 100 miles!! 5th Army was weak to begin with and didn't stand a chance. The good news is that Kursk was garrisoned, and he avoided it - AND didn't cut the rail, so I was able to pull out the 2xArm.

This penetration does keep the potential of pocketing much of 6th Army and the Kiev Salient remnants - and ALSO threatens Voronezh, which I thought was far enough east to be safe. Now it is threatened - and all its industry is intact. I can also add Orel and Tula to the list of threatened cities from the south. Where is getting the fuel???




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/5/2012 8:01:38 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Here's the screen shot after Soviet moves - somewhat of a "patch job" is an understatement!

Once again, I use rail to shift an army - this time its the 6th Army, which rails to block the German advance to the northeast and east. The Kiev Salient remnants march closer to getting out of encirclement danger, but, I'm forced to throw them in line - I'm pretty much "ad hoc" between the Bryansk Front and the Southwestern Front - a gap of about 80 miles or so. Very weak defenses. I need another week or two to throw something better here.

With most of the industry out, I rapidly pull back 18th Army toward Kharkov - I don't want to offer a big salient to be cut off either. Without the need to screen Kharkov, I march 32nd Army north to screen Voronezh. A fatigued army out in the open won't do much, but the Germans HAVE to be fatigued an low on fuel, right?? I also establish the new 37th Army to defend Voronezh - made up of a dozen brand new rifle divisions with less than 1000 men each...not much, but give it a week or two....

At this point, as Sep starts, I'm really not sure where he is going next with Army Group South. His panzers are clearly oriented toward the Orel-Tula-Moscow axis, and I'll have to defend that axis as my primary. Alternately, he could strike for Voronezh - at least raid the city. So, I'll have to move industry from there as a precaution.






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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/5/2012 8:17:24 PM   
IdahoNYer


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In the south, not much. Looks like two German korps are massed, and easily force a crossing of the lower Dniepr. Still no panzers in sight. Not even a motorized brigade. Good.

Even so, I pull back off the lower Dniepr as my lines are stretched and all the reserves behind the lines have been sent north.

Coastal Army will pull back into the Crimea. Southern Front's primary objective is to hold the Stalino area. As long as the Germans don't commit the panzerwaffe here, that might be do-able. Just in case, I'll create an army in the Stalino area shortly to focus the defensive efforts.






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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/6/2012 9:04:21 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Turn 12; Sep 4, 1941...........Clear

Calendars slips into September, time for a look at the information stuff.

Industry moved this turn: Kaluga: 8xArm, Voronezh: 3xArm, and Bryansk: 4xHI.

Overall, no major surprises for industry. Haven't lost anything of note except the T-50 factories and of course most of the HI haven't been evacuated so far. With some luck, I'll be able to keep moving industry one step ahead of his advances - if I tried to move the HI, I couldn't do it without losing something else.




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/6/2012 9:11:13 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Forces available.

Red Army reaches the 5 million mark - will try to preserve that! Overall, still gaining numbers. Guns went down, largely due to the MTOE change for the Rifle Division rather than losses.

Germans still gaining overall strength, but panzers are reduced. They'll gain a panzercorps shortly to offset some of those losses.

Overall, we're steadily moving in the right direction!




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/6/2012 9:26:15 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Losses over the past month or so.

Good news this month...light losses - at least for Soviet standards.




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/6/2012 9:35:20 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Best screen for last - destroyed units...

Was a VERY good month - only lost 1 bloody rifle division!!!

Figure next month will be ugly as Leningrad's time is limited, and with it goes the 23rd Army.

Still, I'll savor this one.....




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/7/2012 12:19:39 AM   
IdahoNYer


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And for the activities of the turn itself, it was pretty uneventful...

In the northern protion of the front, the Germans ground their way 10m closer to cutting off Leningrad from supply. They also widened their penetration there as well. But it was tough going - got about 4 hold results. I'll take grinding attacks in swamp terrain any day.

While I pulled a rifle division and a naval brigade out of Leningrad via sea trans, the Germans cut off the outer fortifications from the city itself.

Little activity against Northwestern Front, but I elect to pull back 31st Army behind the Volkov as they serve really no purpose forward of the river.

The greatest challenge all along the front was that this was the turn the army command capacity was reduced from 24 to 21. Thise forced me to expend a large amount of APs reorganizing the Red Army - here in the north, the 52nd and 48th Armies were formed to reduce command overloads.






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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/7/2012 12:34:48 AM   
IdahoNYer


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West of Moscow, we prepare. Germans are within 200 miles of the capital, and look about ready to make a very deliberate attack to take it. What appears to be a panzer gruppe is just south of Smolensk, ready to attack.

No activity in either Reserve or Western Front's areas for a couple of weeks. We take that time to dig, and deploy in depth.

Reserve Front's three armies (22nd, 24th and 20th) are backed up by the 34th Army near Rzhev. However, I don't think they will recieve the main attack - recon shows just infantry to their west.

STAVKA's 49th Army is the likely target, and probably the right flank of the Western Front. Western Front has deployed its three armies (3rd, 10th and 4th) in echelon, on three defensive belts.

Still behind these formations are another half dozen divisions belonging to STAVKA, and then finally the Moscow Military Districts 200,000 men establishing the inner fortification belt.

Is this enough - probably not enough to stop him. Slow him? Hopefully....




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/7/2012 12:53:02 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Southwest of Moscow, we also prepare for the inevitable assault.

Bryansk Front will absorb the main attack, as Germans mass just to its west. Its 21st and 19th Armies are in the line, backed up by the 43rd Army. All three deploy on rivers to help with the defense and have numerous units in reserve - hopefully they will commit in a timely manner.

Behind the 43rd Army are the scratch Airborne and cavalry blocking positions. Not much, but its something.

South of the Bryansk Front is the newly formed 50th Army - largely made up of former Kiev Salient evacuees. With little depth, I'm hedging my bets here that this panzergroup near Kursk is fatigued and low on fuel.....

However, I do think it will attack - more towards the NE, aimed at Tula. To defend against that, 6th Army prepares, backed up by the 32nd Army. The 40th Army is forming near Tula itself, but is a few weeks away from being effective.

Should he go east instead of north, 37th Army continues to hold around Voronezh.

Overall - this one is going to be bloody. The Army Group Center panzers are rested and most likely fully fueled. I'm just hoping the defense in depth will slow him down a bit.

He'll be threatening Tula in a few weeks.....




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/7/2012 1:01:21 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Further to the south, not much happening. We gradually pull back to the east, but retain Kharkov for another week. As long as there is no pressure, why not?

Southern Front pulls back toward the Stalino area (where no industry has been moved yet), and the Coastal Army begins to break off toward the Crimea.

29th Army stands up in the Stalino area and will begin establishing a defensive line there.

Unless he commits some mobile units here, there will be a slow gradual advance here. I may be able to retain both the Crimea and the Stalino area.....




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/7/2012 3:20:27 AM   
Klydon


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I would consider looking to move some of those troops you have up north to the center because the battle for Moscow is going to begin and you have nothing left worthwhile to defend up north after Leningrad goes down. I think you can safely thin down some of the troops up there and still keep the Germans occupied. Another couple of turns and he won't be able to redeploy much to the center to help while you already have had extra troops around Moscow busy digging.

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/11/2012 3:00:33 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Turn 13; Sep 11, 1941..........Clear

OK.....Heck of a turn! Starts with German Brandenburgers infiltrating STAVKA and Front HQs and issuing "orders" which redeploy every support unit other than engineers out of Army HQs and sends them to the rear! Fortunately, astute NKVD counter agents, detect the plan, eliminate the threat, and issue orders directing the support units back to their assigned units!

In other words, I fat fingered the support level on the commander's report last turn unlocking every single HQ and setting them to zero!!! Geeze......

Fortunately, I realized the problem when I noticed that the STAVKA HQ all of the sudden had 2966 guns!! Fixing it used 98 APs and a whole lot of time!! Ouch...

Anyway, back to the turn....

Industry moved this turn was 12xArm from Tula evacuated to the east. That's it - again the Soviet Rail Roads were busy moving troops!.

In the Leningrad area, the Germans managed to isolate the 23rd Army in Leningrad by taking the last port on Lake Ilmen. This pretty much dooms the city and the 23rd Army, but we might as well make it as hard for the Germans as possible. The Red Falcons fly over 300 sorties delivering supplies to the beleagered army, providing it "beach head" supply. If nothing else, perhaps some of the 150,000 or so defenders can rout out of the pocket when attacked - which is what the German panzers looked poised to do next turn.

With the Germans pressing toward Tula - Moscow, I take Klydon's advice and pull out the 48th Army from the line from between the 28th and 31st Armies, and rail it to the Tula area.

I leave the 55th and 52nd Armies intact for now, as the Germans still have a number of infantry units in the area, and I'm concerned if I weaken the area too much, he'll attempt to flank the Soviet 7th Army holding back the Finns up north. Still moving 48th Army moves 5 divisions towards Moscow.




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/11/2012 3:25:12 AM   
IdahoNYer


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In the Center, the blow falls and the Germans begin their final drive of the summer - aimed at Tula, and then likely Moscow.

Screen shot before Soviet moves.

Army Group Center looks to have kept Panzergruppe 2 and 3 together and attacked the Bryansk Front - primarily the 19th Army - just south of Bryansk. Soviet defenders here gave ground grudgingly - with good use of committing reserves to bolster defenses. I figured one Panzergruppe on either side of Bryansk - instead, combined, they made a mailed fist striking 60 miles into the Soviet defenses.

To the south, Army Group South launches Panzergruppe 1 due north and it slices fairly easily through the weaker 50th Army.

The two forces meet deep in the Soviet rear north of Orel trapping the majority of the 50th and 19th Armies - about 16 divisions!

This also leaves a yawning gap of over 100 miles in the lines between the Bryansk Front and the Southwestern Front - leaving the road to Tula, only 70 miles away, wide open.






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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/11/2012 3:43:26 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Screen shot after Soviet moves.......

We rail the 48th Army from the Leningrad area to safeguard Tula, reinforcing it with a number of divisions from the area, as well as some moving in from the east.

34th Army is railed from reserve positions near Rzhev, into the gap opened by the German attack - this, with the 32nd Army shifting north, closes the open gap facing east.

10th Army is moved from reserve positions near Vyazma to reserve positions NE of Bryansk.

43rd Army is moved from reserve positions behind Bryansk into the line on the north side of the German penetration. Supported by attacks from the remnants of 50th Army - both inside and out of the pocket - attack to open a corridor to the trapped men of the 19th and 50th Armies. These attacks force back a motorized regiment from the SS Wiking, and a narrow corridor is opened. Not much, and it will be very temporary, but now either the Germans work to re-close the pocket, or attack the units in the pocket - which should rout them clear - and sustain the momentum of the attack.

I don't see them being able to do both. I fully expect the pocket to be re-closed, and the Germans to expand their offensive by attacking to seize Bryansk, and also possibly striking toward Voronezh.

Either way, by opening a corridor to the pocket, this should temporarily stall his drive toward Tula.

To the south of the German attack, Southwestern and Southern Fronts continue to hold a thin line from Belgorod - Kharkov to the Crimea. So far, its holding by not being attacked....




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< Message edited by IdahoNYer -- 8/11/2012 3:46:00 AM >

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/12/2012 6:15:41 AM   
Farfarer

 

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Your opponent is doomed. Now that I've put the marker down, don't screw it up :)

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/13/2012 2:06:33 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Turn 14; Sep 18, 1941......Clear

Industry moved: Tula: 12xArm, Voronezh: 17xIL2

Here at the north end of the line, the Germans begin reducing Leningrad. Unfortunately, "beach head supply" doesn't prevent units from surrendering, and 3 divisions surrender while 3 divisions are forced back as the Germans cross the Neva River. Red Falcons again fly supplies into the beleagered city to maintain the supply flow.

55th Army attempts a "relief effort" by trying two attacks to seize a port - and the attacks are repulsed with heavy Soviet loss.

As I said, Leningrad is doomed....but AGN is not going to be striking for Moscow either....




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/13/2012 2:20:45 AM   
IdahoNYer


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In the Center, the Germans apparently try to consolidate their gains before continuing the drive towards Tula.

Germans conducts some local attacks, taking Bryansk and expanding their bulge near Orel - however, it appears that Panzergruppe 1 has been withdrawn to the south, away from this offensive.....does this mean this effort towards Tula-Moscow has culminated???

In the Soviet turn, 43rd Army launchs a 6 division attack against the 29th Mot holding the Orel Pocket, and the attack succeeds in establishing another corridor to the north. It won't hold, but it will disrupt the German plan...

To further complicate the German effort, 32nd Army launches a 5 division attack, forcing the 75th IN Div back, but not enough to link up with elements of the 50th Army moving east from the pocket.

Should a mud turn come into play, the Germans near Orel might find themselves in a precarious supply situation.....

I'm beginning to think I can hold Tula......




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/13/2012 2:36:40 AM   
IdahoNYer


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It is near Kursk that the German panzer force from the Orel area has concentrated. I figure he pulled the panzers down here for easy pickings to strike behind the thin lines and take Kharkov. OR they could be here to head east and take Voronezh. Not sure....

In any case, I abandon Kharkov - and with it, the SU2 factory, 14xveh, and 4xHI are left to the Germans. I pull the lines back, which are still VERY thin, hoping to de-fuze the attack.

37th Army continues to safe guard Voronezh, while off screen to the south, the 29th Army assembles and safeguards the Stalino area - just in case this is a deep penetration effort aimed to clear the entire Donets basin.

We'll see next turn I guess....




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/15/2012 12:56:20 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Turn 15; Sep 25, 1941.....Clear

Quick update as it was a pretty quiet turn.

Industry moved: Kramatorskaya 3xArm, 2xHI; Mariupol 1xArm; Moscow area 1xU2VS, 1xLi2VP (both moved forward so they're eliminated); Tula 2xHI; Kaluga 2xHI

In the north, Leningrad was attacked in force, which took the port and bounced both the 23rd Army HQ and the airbase out of the pocket - that seals the fate of the remaining troops. No hope for relief by retaking a Lake Ilmen port, or air dropping supply for beach head supply.

In the Center, the Panzer concentration near Kursk stayed there. Instead, the Germans re-established and then tightened the grip on the Orel Pocket - no chance of relief exists.

Thats probably 25+ divisions lost between Leningrad and the Orel Pockets.....

In the South, the Germans occupied the abandoned city of Kharkov, but were repulsed trying to break into the Crimea.

Nothing really done on the Soviet side, beside bringing in the constant flow of reinforcements. We wait for the next blow, and continue to build defenses on the approaches to Moscow.

With no German thrusts, perhaps they are settling in for the mud/winter? Its getting late to launch another offensive

< Message edited by IdahoNYer -- 8/15/2012 12:57:53 AM >

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/15/2012 5:20:17 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Turn 16; Oct 2, 1941......Clear

Another month gone by...a tough one, better parts of 3xArmies (23rd, 50th, and 19th) encircled and destroyed in two major pockets (Orel and Leningrad). Still, Soviet armies continue to expand....

Industry moved for the turn: Lipetsk 3xArm, Voroshilovgrad 3xArm, Stalino area 3xArm, Taganrog 2xArm, Moscow 1xIL10

Overall, we've been able to move industry before the Germans take the city. I gave up some vehicle factories in Kharkov, moving only parts, and some additional HI lost. Armaments have had to be moved in portions in both Voronezh and Tula, increasing damage.






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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/15/2012 5:25:27 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Forces available since last month....

Both German and Soviet forces grew in size. Soviets seem to grow about 350,000 men a month, give or take a few thousand, so even though we lost about a quarter of a million, the overall strength expanded. German expansion is likely due to the arrival of a new panzerkorps to the front.

Also good news is that Soviet tanks strength increased for the first time...

No changes to Front leadership. Now that Leningrad has fallen, I'll probably move Zhukov somewhere more useful. Leningrad Front is now a backwater.




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/15/2012 5:31:51 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Losses were heavy for both sides - heavier losses for the Germans as they attacked more prepared defenses, and of course the loss of the Leningrad and Orel Pockets.

The most telling statistic is probably the number killed - German killed were over 50% of Soviet killed - a good ratio.

Soviet captured topped the 1 million mark witht the loss of the two pockets.




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/15/2012 5:34:12 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Last admin screen is the destroyed units listing.

As you can see, the Germans made up for lost time last month.

Just hoping to keep rifle divisions destroyed under 100 for the 1941 German offensive....




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/15/2012 7:07:46 PM   
bigbaba


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you are doing well. opening the pocket will cost him one more turn and your OOB is over 5.000.000 which is a very good number to work with it in the blizzard.

i can see a painfull blizzard for the german player ahead.

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/16/2012 2:16:05 AM   
Fishbed


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From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
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Well, first Idaho has to survive a snow offensive against Moscow by all of the panzerkorps at once, or nearly so... Ain't gonna be easy either!

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(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 119
RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/16/2012 3:38:48 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 1110
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
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quote:

Well, first Idaho has to survive a snow offensive against Moscow by all of the panzerkorps at once, or nearly so... Ain't gonna be easy either!


That's probably the biggest question Fishbed - will Scar dig in for the Blizzard, or make one more drive to cut down the Soviet Bear once winter hits??

In the meantime, pretty quiet in the North and Center. Leningrad's last defenders duly succumb easily once the airbridge is cut.

Screen shot shows the situation in the Center - the defenses of a western approach to Moscow - key area being the Inner Defenisve Belt, manned by the Moscow Military District, with fortifications ringing the inner approaches to Moscow.

To the west of the fortified units in the defensive belt, I've highlighted some of the units somehow moving toward level 3 forts without the assitance of fortified regions. For example, just west of Moscow, the two level 3 forts occupied currently by tank brigades - were created by soley rifle divisions, which moved out recently when needed elsewhere.




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(in reply to Fishbed)
Post #: 120
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