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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

 
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/28/2012 3:00:09 AM   
IdahoNYer


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A glorious victory by the Soivet Union's forces as the 36th Mot Div is forced to surrender....of course, what is not reported in Pravda are the 4 prelimary attacks by 31st Army before the final blow is struck by the 28th Army. Tough Defense!!!

Following the attack, I pull the Northern Front forces back toward the Luga Line (which was left bare to encircle the panzers), and NW Front forces pull back toward the south of Lake Ilmen. 31st Army, which made the "soak off" attacks against the 36th Mot, is in need of a rest, but both 27th and 11th Armies are in fair shape as they establish a defenisve line in the swamps.

Overally, the defenses of Leningrad could be alot better - time spent digging was replaced by the counter attack. Still, all forces were able to withdraw in good order and not a single Soviet unit was encircled.

Outstanding!




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/28/2012 3:24:33 AM   
IdahoNYer


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In the center, not much happens - that surprised me - panzers must have been really low on fuel after being isolated. No forward momentem. Good!

Reserve Front falls back to establish new lines - maintaining contact with 11th Armry to the north, but abandoning Veliki Luki. 20th Army, still in three parts attempt to regroup to the rear - 1/3 of which will be isolated and likely eliminated shortly. One hex short of being able to once again cut the panzer spearheard off!!

Western Front's 10th Army continues to pressure the German advance by counterattacking and pushing back a mot regiment. 3rd Army awaits the blow near Smolensk - but we're holding on to the Dniepr!

34th Army backstops 10th Army, while the 49th Army is thrown into the line as 20th Army moves northwards.

Notice the lack of units on the "Moscow Defensive Belts" - those forces currently in the lines with the 10th, 34th and 49th Armies.

Overall, couldn't ask for better. I'll lose a few units to encirclement, but a few divisions is better than an army....
Once he's got the panzer's resupplied - I expect the advance to continue. I'm hoping he'll head south instead of east - offering the "softer" target of 3rd Army deployed along the Dniepr vs the echeloned defense enroute towards Moscow.





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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/28/2012 3:34:39 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Here in the Pripet - we conduct a small cavalry raid to isolate the German 1st Cavalry Div.

While I'm only screening the swamps with Soviet cavalry, I sense the German cavalry is on its own - well, we can't make it too easy for him, right? So I swing a cavalry division around its flank, isolating it with a withdrawing Mech Div. I really don't have any forces to "eliminate" the division if it stays isolated, but I figure this at least will draw a "relief effort" from either AGC or AGS to rescue the German Cav div. Forces that could be used better elsewhere.

Overall, until Bryansk Front is formed, there isn't much Soviet defense between Gomel and Chernigov. But then again, there hasn't been much pressure here either....




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/28/2012 3:42:29 AM   
IdahoNYer


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In the Ukraine, basically, nothing happens.....

Surprising....

I figured on continued pressure to take the Dniepr Bend. Panzers out of fuel perhaps?? Preparing to breach the Dniepr itself?

Either way, no activity is good news!!

We spend the time reorganizing the armies in the Southwestern and Southern Fronts.

Each turn the German panzers don't advance is more than welcome!





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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/28/2012 2:49:51 PM   
Klydon


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Nice job on the counter attack and also putting some pressure on the German advance.

I think Scar would do better on his next game as he has to be learning a lot in this game. Leaving just Rumanians to screen Odessa is a rookie mistake in most cases.

Have you got a OOB shot by chance and how are you doing with evacuation, etc?

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/30/2012 3:46:14 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Turn 8; Aug 7, 1941......Clear

Beginning of the month, time to overview the information screens - production, losses, etc.

So, starting with production, here are the industry figures, with the change from the previous month. Industry moved this turn as follows: N.Bryansk: 4xArm, N.Moscow 11xIL2, W.Moscow 5xVeh, and Zaporozhye 4xHI.

First turn I pulled some heavy industry east. Probably the last time until mud hits....




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/30/2012 3:54:08 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Forces available screen. Despite some heavy losses from the Lvov Pocket, Soviet manpower and guns were able to grow significantly.

Also good news, panzer strength was reduced.




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/30/2012 4:01:50 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Losses. Nice to see the 10K+ Germans captured....

Soviet losses still very heavy, and go over the one million mark, but most of those are left over from the Lvov Pocket.




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/30/2012 4:06:54 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Last info screen shows the destroyed units. Again, most of the Soviet destroyed units were the result of the Lvov Pocket.

If I can avoid another mass pocket, might be able to hold Moscow....




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/30/2012 4:13:39 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Not much activity this turn. Germans look to be building up for another attack in the Center and South.

Here in the north, both Soviets Fronts pull back to defensive lines. Northern Front falls in on the Luga Line - which is barely fortified. But, at least it is a river based defense and we were able to fall back toward it in good order.
Northwestern Front also pulls back a bit, but still retains the swamps forward, as its 31st Army establishes positions to the rear.






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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/30/2012 4:21:51 AM   
IdahoNYer


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In the Center, we await the blow toward Moscow while attempting to reorganize.

Reserve Front pulls back in the NW, maintaining contact with the Northwestern Front. Its 20th Army finally consolidates and begins regrouping to the rear near Rzhev.

Western Front, augmented by two STAVKA Armies, remains over-extended and with minimal depth. Both Leningrad and Moscow are the priority of reinforcements, but I may have to shift totally toward Moscow if the Germans push hard here.

Bryansk Front is activated, but only has one army at the moment, and is still holding well forward of, well, Bryansk...




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/30/2012 4:30:57 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Nothing much happens in the south. Of course, the computer determines now is the time to disband 3 of the 4 NKVD regiments in "Fortress Odessa", which forces me to abandon the outer defenses, and fall back to the city itself. Not a big deal - the intent of the defense is to pull the German divisions down here and off the line - hasn't happened yet.

Also of note are the Hungarians "screening" the German concentration along the Dniepr. This tells me, he's going to force the river here as he has infantry up, and not pressure the Dniepr Bend any more. So, I reinforce the Dniepr line as best I can in this area.

Figure the Germans to start attempting to gain a bridgehead next turn....




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/31/2012 6:29:39 AM   
Seminole


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It looks like you aren't making use of the Military Districts.
You can transfer units (and Army HQ) out of an MD at no cost (like Stavka). I've found assigning freshly recruited units to an MD (within 45 hexes), even if it is ultimately overloaded, is better than leaving it under Stavka to avoid combat penalties. All my units being railed forward are assigned to an MD each week, and in the Moscow and Kharkov regions I even have Armies assigned to the MDs. You will pay a cost to transfer out of these Armies under an MD, but they seem to obtain replacements and supplies much better than under Stavka.

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/31/2012 11:08:04 PM   
sillyflower


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Fewer than 1.3M casualties seem low to me. You are doing well there

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/2/2012 12:00:49 AM   
IdahoNYer


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quote:

It looks like you aren't making use of the Military Districts.
You can transfer units (and Army HQ) out of an MD at no cost (like Stavka). I've found assigning freshly recruited units to an MD (within 45 hexes), even if it is ultimately overloaded, is better than leaving it under Stavka to avoid combat penalties. All my units being railed forward are assigned to an MD each week, and in the Moscow and Kharkov regions I even have Armies assigned to the MDs. You will pay a cost to transfer out of these Armies under an MD, but they seem to obtain replacements and supplies much better than under Stavka.


Seminole - thanks for the tip! I'll start utilizing the MDs more - especially the Moscow MD in and around the Moscow area.

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/2/2012 12:01:34 AM   
IdahoNYer


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quote:

Fewer than 1.3M casualties seem low to me. You are doing well there


Think that might change in the next few turns.....

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/2/2012 12:22:31 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Turn 9; Aug 14, 1941......Clear

Well, things WERE going well.....no longer....Once again, I underestimate the penetrating capabilities of the panzerwaffe.

This one hurt....

Screen shot shows before the Soviet moves. All four German Panzergruppes launch massive attacks resulting in deep penetrations.

In the north, the Northern Front is penetrated resulting in Leningrad being raided (the T-50 factory being lost), and Leningrad cut off.

In the center, the Western Front is penetrated east of Smolensk - but the drive is to the south, not toward Moscow. Interesting (real history repeating itself?)

In the south, the Southern Front is penetrated along the Dniepr, and the Germans drive far and deep into the Southwestern Front's rear areas, threatening a "once secure" Kharkov where panic erupts

Moving industry this turn becomes secondary as every rail car in the Soviet Union is made available to extract the entire Southwestern Front, Bryansk Front and two thirds of the Western Front from potential encirclement. Fortunately, I have two rail lines east.

With remaining rail, after I pull out all the troops I can, I manage to move 35 of the 59 T-34 factories east out of harms way. Don't think losing the T-50 factory in Leningrad will have much effect (might see more lend lease tanks in the ranks perhaps), but I'll be short T-34s for a while now.

Following screens will show the "after" Soviet moves in a bit more detail....




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/2/2012 12:40:39 AM   
IdahoNYer


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The German drive in the north is the most costly - it dooms Leningrad. While I figured I'd lose the city if Scar really wanted to take it - I was hoping to prolong the struggle. Not going to happen now.

I made two rookie mistakes here. First, I figured after killing off a motorized division, he' be a bit more cautious and he be fatigued from the rescue attempt. Figured I had two weeks or so to strengthen the defenses. Nither proved to be true - he came loaded for bear and the defenses lacked depth and his troops weren't fatigued. He moved very boldly in raiding Leningrad, then pulling back his exposed raiders to establish a solid outer and inner perimeter. Nicely done.

Second rookie mistake was failing to garrison the fortifications of Leningrad itself - I had pulled two Rifle divisions forward into the line, so when his raiders reached the city gates, both Kolpino and Leningrad were sacked.

I'm able to pull back the western most elements of the 23rd Army into the Inner Perimeter, but without some key fortifcations - and more time needed to prepare, its only a matter of time before the 23rd Army is lost with the city. I also pull the Northwestern Front's 31st Army to the north side of Lake Ilmen to the Novogorod area as the 28th Army rapidly falls back to establish a front along the Volkov. All armies outside the pocket in this area are pretty weak and lack depth - but do have some good terrain to defend.

I'll attempt to hold as long as I can - I pull out via sea move some air bases, but I'm not evacing the army. Like Hitler's orders to the 6th Army in Stalingragd in the real campaign, every week the defenders of Leiningrad hold out, it will help keep forces from attacking towards Moscow from the north.






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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/2/2012 12:58:18 AM   
IdahoNYer


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In the center, we have another crisis....

The German attack hits just east of Smolensk, into the weaker 49th Army - but its oriented south, not east. The defenses south of Smolensk lack depth compared to the road to Moscow, and this presumably drew the German attack - looking for a quick penetration south - and then wheel east.

While its good the attack isn't directed toward Moscow, it compromises anything remaining on the Dniepr.

Time to pull back (Sir Robin Theme song please...)

The good news is I still have rail lines east. 3rd Army largely rails east to new positions on the south and eastern side of the German penetration. 21st Army largely marches east toward Bryansk. I also pull down the Western Front's 10th Army, replacing it in the line with the Reserve Front's 20th Army. STAVKA's 34th and 49th Armies pretty much hold in place - and will likely be absorbed into the Western Front after lines stablize....

My concern is the panzers turning east with a powerful attack before my troops fatigue is reduced from all the moving.

I also build fortified areas to establish the Moscow Fortified Zone near Moscow approaches.




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/2/2012 2:11:27 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Along the Dniepr, all hell breaks loose.

The Germans make a concentrated penetration along a very narrow front of river against the 16th Army - which I figured was coming and reinforced it - to no avail. The 16th Army's reserve armor didn't commit, and the Germans not only established a bridgehead (which is what I figured they'd be limited to), but managed to exploit deep into the Southwestern Front's rear area.

On the bright side - and I HAVE to look at a bright side here - I still have intact rail lines (although they have to detour far north to the Bryansk area).

Basically, the majority of the Southwestern Front, along with STAVKA's 19th Army, rails out of the exposed positions. The weak 5th Army moves to delay further northern progress - figure the panzers are heavily fatigued and low on fuel, right...?

While I have the rail lines, and the capability, the detour north uses alot of movement, and many elements remain entrained. This will affect capability next turn as well of course. Still - although I'll probably lose maybe a half dozen units to encirclement that can't make it clear (including the two stay-behind to narrow the corridor), the rest should get out.

Quite the exit strategy....

The challenge is on the eastern side. There is really nothing there to start. I again use rail to establish a defense (of sorts) to screen Kharkov at least. If he pushes hard east, he'll take or isolate the city - with its remaining factories still there. 32nd Army is established to defend the city and will likely become the left flank of the Southwestern Front, maintaining contact with the Southern Front near here.

South of the screen shot, Southern Front pulls back out of the Dniepr Bend and takes up positions along the river itself - no depth, but I don't see any remaining panzers here. Even the Rumanians begin to be seen in the line. I'll take some risk here, and pull forces north, such as extending 9th Army northwards.

So, overall, this whole area will be a mess for a few turns as I try to re-establish some sort of defensive line north of the Dniepr Bend, through Kharkov and up toward Bryansk. Just standing up the Bryansk Front now doesn't help clear things up either...

Hopefully, Scar will still think I've got a sizeable force pulling back slowly from Kiev, and will try and link up with Army Group Center's panzers heading south. If he realizes the bag is pretty much empty and turns east, I'll be in a mobile fight the Soviets are ill-equiped to fight effectively.

Most overriding consideration right now is to preserve the force - everything but Moscow itself is expendable. I just hope to be able to pull out industry...




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< Message edited by IdahoNYer -- 8/2/2012 2:15:05 AM >

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/2/2012 2:51:13 AM   
A game


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Yes its easy to underestimate the panzers, but all it takes is an HQ buildup or two and they are running amok in your back lines, so it pays to defend deep early on and be prepared for any eventuality. You certainly payed the price with Leningrad.

At this stage you should probably just leave a token screening force down south and start building a massive fortified belt around Moscow, as AGN will presumably finish with Leningrad soon and be available for the centre push, though others with more experience may have a better idea of what to do!

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/2/2012 6:34:56 AM   
Seminole


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quote:

I'll attempt to hold as long as I can - I pull out via sea move some air bases, but I'm not evacing the army. Like Hitler's orders to the 6th Army in Stalingragd in the real campaign, every week the defenders of Leiningrad hold out, it will help keep forces from attacking towards Moscow from the north.


To that end, keep an empty air base inside the Leningrad defensive perimeter so you can establish 'beachhead' air supply to the units inside once the Germans take the back door (and they will as soon as they decide to, they can commit much more CV (with SUs) to the attack than you can hope to have appear on defense even with reserves activating).
Otherwise your troops will be isolated when the port falls and die essentially without a fight.
quote:


Airhead supply. Isolated air units may be changed to beach/air supply status
(same as old beachhead status) under certain conditions. If a player flies in supplies to an
air base in a pocket, the supplies will immediately be distributed amongst all of the
isolated units that can trace to the air base. If the amount received during the turn at some
point equals 5% or more of the total needs of the unit, then the unit will be immediately
set to beach/air supply status (it will display in orange instead of red when toggle
unsupplied units is toggled on). The total needs are the supply+fuel+ammo needs listed
for the unit. So a division with total needs of 1100 tons of s/f/a have at least 55 tons flown
in and delivered to the unit, it will have its supply status changed from isolated to
beach/air supply status. This will last until the next friendly logistics phase. Units with
beach/air supply will always pay penalties for being short of ammo, so there is a
disadvantage in combat to be in beach/air supply (but it's better than being isolated where
there are additional penalties). The air base must be in a clear or light woods hex. When in
Beach/Air supply, the unit detail screen will show the information: Air Head Supply 400 /
20 (5%) which indicates the total amount of supplies+fuel+ammo the unit needs, the
amount it has received via air resupply, and the total percentage of needs that has been
met. When in Air Transport mode, the player can left click on an air base and then bring
up that unit’s detail screen to see a full list of all isolated unit that can trace to the air base,
the total need of each unit, and the amount of supplies that have been sent to the unit. On
the right side of that screen is a line that reads Air Supply Range: 10. By clicking on this
line, the player may enter a different number from 1 to 10. Only units within the state
range in hexes of the air base will be sent supplies that are airlifted to this air base. Air
base units may be moved before supplies are delivered to it, but once it receives supplies
for isolated units, it will not be able to move and then receive additional supplies for
isolated units. Units that are merged or divided track the amount of air head supplies
received, so they can lose their supplied status if no longer over the 5% threshold.

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/2/2012 7:25:10 AM   
Flaviusx


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The German can contrive to gain air superiority over Leningrad and deny air supply.

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/2/2012 8:35:13 AM   
governato

 

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There is no single silver bullet to save the city, but I like Seminole strategy: leaving an empty airbase in Leningrad + several transports/level bombers air groups and some escort planes just East of Volkhov river (set on both night and day missions) is a cost effective idea. It does not take much to fly in the 5% supply quota to avoid the isolation penalties. One also needs to make sure to leave a few infantry brigades for reserve activation, but no armored units (they are supply hogs) in the city area. Together with starting on turn one to aggressively fortify hex 83,17 (the backdoor) and hex 85,17 to defend the access to the Ladoga ports it surely helps and may buy a few turns for the defender.


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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/2/2012 1:41:38 PM   
Klydon


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The mission now around Leningrad is to delay him long enough that he can't redeploy the bulk of forces there to help with the attack on Moscow before the weather turns all the while not losing too many Russians doing it.

Interesting game for sure. I thought Scar's early turns would doom him, but he seems to have gotten his second wind for now.

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/4/2012 2:39:52 AM   
IdahoNYer


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Turn 10; Aug 21, 1941..........Clear and mud in the North Soviet Zone

This was a strange turn. I expected a continuation of mass panzer penetrations in the center and south attempting to link up (if he thought I was still being encircled), or them turning east to deepen the pocket (if he read I was pulling out of the pocket). Neither really happened.

Perhaps it was that General Mud made another appearance with mud in the North Soviet Zone - but that should not have prevented either of those two options. Or, perhaps his panzers need fuel - he's got to be at the limit (especially in the south) of his supply lines. He's using alot of air, but that's not going to be enough.

Industry: I pull out 8xArm and 6xVehicle from Kharkov which remains secure. With limited rail due to continued use during retreats (rout actually) in the center, I use what's left to move 2xIL10 from Voronezh.

Command: Haven't really done much with command since appointing Zhukov to the Northern Front (not that that did any good with my screw ups!). I replace Koniev as commander of the North Caucasus MD to get him in the pool, then swap Pavlov from Western to Bryansk Fronts.....which the AI then replaces Pavlov with Koniev. That worked well!!
The biggest issue I have with command is overloaded Fronts. I've got probably close to a dozen armies with ZERO units assigned as they would just overload Fronts if I fill them (those in the Western or Southwestern Fronts, battered from the frontier battles). I have a few STAVKA armies, which I try to keep in secondary lines (such as 32nd Army defending Kharkov), but I have many more army HQs that I seem to be able to use. I'm hesistant to assign newly recieved divisions to armies as that would limit their flexibility (I'd have to commit the entire army or spend APs to re-assign the division), so while I'll assign some to MDs, most remain assigned directly to STAVKA while in the rear areas. Not sure this is the BEST way, but for now, it is what it is...

Screen shots after all moves...

Here in the northern areas, not much happens. The mud does prevent eastern attacks here. He tightens the noose on Leningrad, taking the unfortified positions on the south bank of the Neva River. I figured he'd breach across the Neva - a level 2 fort on the "back door" with weak troops wouldn't have held. But no attack came. Perhaps he is resting for the assault next turn. In any case, Leningrad's 23rd Army will remain in supply for another week!




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/4/2012 3:03:19 AM   
IdahoNYer


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In the center, we are graced by German inactivity - which allows some time to re-organize the troops moving out of the Kiev Salient, and establish some semblance of a defense.

Reserve Front's three armies are backed up by STAVKA's 34th Army establishing positions near Rzhev.

Western Front is still pulling forces back and attempting to establish the 3rd Army back into the line - currently backed up by the 10th Army. STAVKA's 49th Army will either join the Western Front or be relieved by a 3rd Army HQs - 4th and 13th armies are still largely available and not employed. However, we're at the command limit of the Western Front now, and I don't want to overload the Front HQ, nor do I want to waste APs re-assigning divisions amongst Army HQs. This remains a mess - AND right along the most direct route to Moscow. I've got to fix this soon!

Bryansk Front gains the 19th Army from STAVKA, and establishes a line with the 21st Army to screen Bryansk - I figure his panzers are heading this way shortly! I push three cavalry divisions out front of the line as a screen. The line is weak, but I figure the German infantry isn't up this far yet either. Bryansk Front sill needs another army assigned, as well as a STAVKA army to its rear. Unfortunately, I have other more pressing priorities right now...




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Post #: 87
RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/4/2012 3:25:20 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 1055
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
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It is in the south, I'm surprised - I really thought he'd try harder to take Kharkov. Scar is really massing his mobile forces - the positive with that is when they attack, there is nothing stopping it. The downside is that everywhere else, I can count on little forward progress. A weak PzKps of two divisions can really add to the punch of an army if used properly!

In any case, I've just about made it out of the Kiev Salient without a major catastrophe - one more turn should do it! Right now, two divisions are definately doomed, with perhaps 3 or 4 others at risk. That assumes the Southwestern Front can hold the lines its trying to establish - at least to some degree. His panzers HAVE to be short fuel here!!! His railhead is around Kirovograd - about 20 HEXES south of his leading tanks.

SW Front is still in a precarious postion. The 6th and 5th Armies are weak and fatigued. 19th Army was sent northwest to slow Guderian. 32nd Army will have completed its mission to screen Kharkov next turn, and we can re-orient it. I need another turn of inactivity here.....

Southern Front remains pretty quiet. He hasn't tried to breach the Dniepr line, and I'm betting he's got all his German (and Hungarian) mobile forces in the drive north. I'm not worried about exploiting Rumanian Cavalry - not while I'm on the river at least. I lack depth here though. Not much between the front and Stalino.....except in the Crimea where I'm digging in a fort line at the isthmus.




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Post #: 88
RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/4/2012 3:33:30 AM   
hfarrish


Posts: 718
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline

I'll admit to being wrong on this game - Scar has turned it around to some extent. Still, you have managed the hat trick of keeping your army intact while still fighting relatively forward. IMO its yours to lose - Leningrad will fall no matter what anyway, and you have him a long way from Moscow, the holding of which seems to be the definition of a successful Soviet '41 at this point.

(in reply to IdahoNYer)
Post #: 89
RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 8/4/2012 3:44:20 PM   
Fishbed


Posts: 1649
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline
Wait what?! Odessa has fallen?!

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