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Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls)

 
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Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 7:15:52 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		My game with MichaelT is going into turn 8 currently and since MT is doing an AAR I thought it might be interesting to do one from the Axis perspective too.

The House rules:
1. No HQ bombing unless stacked with combat unit.
2. Non-random weather
3. Max. 3 airbase attacks after first turn
4. No landings West of Sevastopol until 1943.
5. No airbase mega fuel harvest. (no longer possible with latest patch)
6. No para drops to break pockets.

No quitting and no whining ;-)

I'm not sure what to expect in terms of how MT will handle the Russian side. My assumption is that he will fall back much faster than Tarhunnas and he will certainly not fight a forward defense. How fast he will fall back is the big unknown. If he fights for the Dnepr, I will try for pocket opportunities. If he does not, my strategy will be to push East as fast as possible, using the Panzers to clear the way so the infantry can get into the fight as soon as possible. The infantry, often ignored, will be instrumental in beating his MLR when he finally decides to stand.
Again I'm assuming that at the very least he'll fight for Leniningrad and Moscow. Most likely Stalino and, should I get there; Rostov.

TURN 1
NORTH
I do a pretty standard opening although I ignore Riga for turn one. Instead, I push two Pz. Divs accross the Daugava and Daugavpils falls easily. (done after picture was taken).
I also decide that the Red circle units are too big of a treat to my supply lines and displace them after the picture was taken.
PzG 1 is reinforced with 20th Pz Div. This puts me in a good position to go either:
1. straight for Pskov should the possibility exist.
2. Advance in the general direction of Polotsk, clear the RR and capture excellent defensive terrain before he is allowed the opportunity to reinforce it.
His reaction will determine what I do next turn.

CENTER
Again standard opening. One Pz Corps is send South, the remainder advances full speed direction Minsk.
As much infantry as can be is pushed East full speed.




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< Message edited by glvaca -- 7/8/2012 9:40:40 AM >
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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 7:17:50 AM   
glvaca

 

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Joined: 6/13/2006
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Again, pretty standard stuff.




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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 7:23:32 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		LUFTWAFFE
I actually try something new. In an effort to maximize the efficiency of the Lufwaffe from turn 1, I reorganize the gruppe on the airbases.
As many Stuka gruppe as possible are transfered to fighter bases. All recon and otherwise useless stuff is sent to the reserve. The Army airbases have plenty of recon capability.
This gives me around 3 (or was it 4 airbases?) to distribute bomber gruppe too within support limits.
For each Lufflotte, one base directly attached is used for the Ju52's. This allows me to keep these guys in the rear without having to put other bases out of command range. With this setup, I can push the fighter/Stuka bases pretty close to the action, keeping the bomber bases further back, and finally, the Ju52 bases even further without to much negative effect.

< Message edited by glvaca -- 7/8/2012 8:05:59 AM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 7:40:06 AM   
glvaca

 

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Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		TURN 2
He puts up a strong security screen at the Malta river and this pursuades me in turn to push SE with the bulk of Mansteins Pz. Corps while sending 1 Pz. Div. to clear the East bank of the Malta for the 16th Army infantry next turn.
XXXIX Pz. Corps captures Riga and pushes on East to clear the way for 18th Army next turn.
There are scant pocketing opportunities, MT is proving to be very good at positioning units for maximum delay while using limited resources. Which in turn makes it too expensive in units and movement points for the return on investement to form pockets.

NORTH & CENTER
Before moves, with recon.







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< Message edited by glvaca -- 7/8/2012 9:41:56 AM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 7:44:04 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		SOUTH
The Kovel pocket is broken, but the Lvov pocket holds as do all other pockets.
What's clear though, is that he is running, and hard...





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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 7:54:35 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		NORTH & CENTER CONTINUED
56th Pz. Corps is pretty succesful in its drive towards Polotsk making a defense further North unpractical, which is my objective. Next turn 16th Army's II Corps will be in a position to take over and further clear this very important section of the map.

Straight ahead full power! I combine 3 & 2 PzG into one force and push on to the landbridge in an effort to break the defences before they can become established strongly. And none to soon, as some of his best units are already in position.
The Dnepr bend is defended strongly so no chance on bouncing the river.
As much infantry as can be spared is pushed on full speed East.

I make my first BIG mistake of the campaign in the center by leaving an opportunity to cut-off the bulk of 3 PzG. I know it after I've done it, but there is nothing to be done except hope he does not have the units/movement to take advantage of it....






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< Message edited by glvaca -- 7/8/2012 8:14:48 PM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 8:04:56 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		SOUTH CONTINUED
Full speed East. Same patern as elsewhere, I grab as much terrain as possible and start moving as much infantry as possible East.
The Kovel pocket is re-established.
The question now is, will he fight for the Dnepr? It's clear that he has moved quite a few starting units in the South to the Center already. Still, he should have more than enough to make a strong stand at the Dnepr. The best way to deal with such a defense, is to move SE along the West bank, forcing him in turn to cover the complete length of the Dnepr or risk being outflanked. This in turn makes his defense weaker and facilitates a crossing whereever I decide to cross.
We'll know more next turn.




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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 8:07:47 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		To finish, whole front overview




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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 8:19:18 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		TURN 3
Only ending turn SS.
NORTH & CENTER
PzG 4's 2 Pz Corps combine in a push to cross the Velikaya at Ostrov. 16th Army's infantry makes a detour direction Polotsk as planned but resistance is weak.
18th Infantry is moving up and should be in a position to help next turn.

PzG 3 is cut-off as feared and this curtails my options in the Center. What's more, the landbridge is abandonned as is the East bank of the Dnepr. Only pickets remain. It seems he will be falling back much faster than I expected.




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< Message edited by glvaca -- 7/8/2012 8:21:13 AM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 8:25:00 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		SOUTH
Lack of fuel prevents deep moves and he has a rather ellaborate checker board in place. So I content myself with pushing closer to the Dnepr and in SE direction. It seems he's going to fight for the Dnepr which means I need to wait for the infantry in any event.
14th Pz. Corps spearheads 11th Army to increase their rate of advance.




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< Message edited by glvaca -- 7/8/2012 9:44:35 AM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 8:25:25 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		Losses




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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 8:25:42 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
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Status: offline 		Air Losses




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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 8:37:18 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		TURN 4
NORTH & CENTER
A patern is becoming clear in MT's strategy. Hugging my units are the expendables. Not worth the effort to encircle as they would only be in the way.
Secondly, a substantial gap sometimes with further pickets, sometimes just empty space.
3rd line is tougher but usually still attackable with hasties. Then, the 4th line, strong units, usually dugin or in highly defensive terrain requiring deliberate attacks to clear. Usually, I do not have the movement remaining to del. attack and movement stops.
It's pretty effective. The downside is, you need a lot of terrain as a buffer to use this strategy and he has already surrendered highly defensible terrain while doing so in the North and Center.

In response, I push as fast and as deep as I can to allow the infantry maximum movement next turn. The faster they bridge the gap, the faster I will be able to bring their full weight to the fight. That's the moment this game will be decided. Or at least 1941.





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< Message edited by glvaca -- 7/8/2012 9:45:44 AM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 8:41:04 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		Close up Center, before movement.




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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 8:46:39 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		SOUTH
He abandons the Dnepr! That IS a surprise...
I know MT believes strongly that if the Soviets are given the chance to retreat they can't lose, but I never, ever, expected him to push it to such extreemes. I'll remain careful as he could be right, but somehow, giving me all this great defensive terrain without a fight must come back to haunt him later. Sooner or later he'll come to a point when further retreat is not an option, afterall, retreating to Stalingrad may prevent the loss of a single unit, but it's doubtful it will bring you anything else than defeat on a long term basis.




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< Message edited by glvaca -- 7/8/2012 9:52:45 AM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 8:54:27 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		NORTH CONTINUED
Pskov and surroundings are easily cleared by the Panzers with some help from 18th Army's inf.
Slightly to the North, I run into some first class Russian infantry (56+ Morale) which I'm forced to deliberatly attack.
Soon, 16th Army will shift North to help in the attack on Leningrad.
XIII Corps has been assigned to 4 PzG, and will have 4 solid infantry divs attached.
2nd Army will be moved into the gap between 16th Army and the Center and will generally be used as a flank guard.




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< Message edited by glvaca -- 7/8/2012 9:05:02 AM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 8:59:08 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		CENTER CONTINUED
I push on as fast as circumstances allow. My objective here is the Belyi Axis which seems to be lightly defended. Hopefully he will not reinforce it too much by next turn.
I decline crossing the Dnepr with the Panzers at this point. Supply is bad enough as it is. This will be a job for the infantry. He's running so fast, I can bairly keep up!




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< Message edited by glvaca -- 7/8/2012 8:19:07 PM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 9:07:28 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		SOUTH CONTINUED
Pushing on, clearing the way for the infantry.




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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 9:08:16 AM   
glvaca

 

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 9:21:43 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
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Status: offline 		TURN 5
Only ending shots this turn except this one; state of the Panzer waffe start of turn. Movement generally sucks.





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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 9:25:34 AM   
glvaca

 

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Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		NORTH
Good progress this turn as 18th Army infantry makes its presence felt.
39th Pz. Corps exploits, while 56th Pz. Corps gets a buildup.
The Leningrad strike force is almost completely assembled and concentrated.




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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 9:30:48 AM   
glvaca

 

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The Infantry is now arriving at the front in strength.
Available for the tip of the spear will be PzG 3's V Corps (4 Divs)., PzG 2's XIII Corps (4 strong Divs.), 4th Army's 43rd Corps (4 first class divs).
9th Army (12 divs) will be on the right, protecting the flank and providing linkup with the remainder of 4th Army further South. Still, it will be concentrated East of Smolensk.
2 Pz Corps are taken out of the line for some R&R.
I manage to clear the Belyi coridor, with minimal effort.




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< Message edited by glvaca -- 7/8/2012 9:55:09 AM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 9:36:51 AM   
glvaca

 

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Not much happening. 6th Army infantry crosses the Dnepr and pushes on towards the East & NE.
Panzers keep pushing towards D & Z-town.
Infantry is moving up.
MT keeps falling back when industry is evacuated.

To finish, whole front overview.




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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 9:53:06 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6296
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: online 		For whatever it is worth, I think he is running too fast in the south. IMO, the Soviet can and should hold the Dnepr until turn 6, and then leave behind a screen of pickets to slow down the infantry. This screen will die, but buy time. The danger here is that your infantry will arrive at the Donbas with plenty of clear weather remaining, and if you can threaten that, Tula, and Moscow at the same time, rail cap simply will not keep up. Every one of those takes several turns to evacuate. He's not doing anything to slow the landsers down, and you're absolutely doing the right thing in clearing a broad front for them to advance quickly.

You don't need to save everything. Indeed, it's in the Soviet advantage to get a lot of stuff killed, including the tank divisions. They are armament and vehicle hogs, and I will cheerfully use them to screen the infantry so it can withdraw.

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 10:02:40 AM   
glvaca

 

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Status: offline 		Agreed, he could have easily held it another turn although it's not unlikely he has moved many divisions North to help out in the Leningrad defense. Not yet clear from the AAR at this point, but he has assembled quite a collection of first class divisions around Leningrad. I'm pushing through, but with difficulty.

IMO he's giving up to much terrain in the Center too. The Belyi-Durovo-Yelna-Bryansk line can be a tough nutt to crack if prepared well. He's basically giving it up without a serious fight...

But we'll see, he could be right afterall. I guess that's the point that will be proved or disproved...

< Message edited by glvaca -- 7/8/2012 1:17:16 PM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 10:05:56 AM   
Flaviusx


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From: Southern California
Status: online 		I dunno, I kind of agree with what he's doing the center. My first real MLR in the center nowadays is east of Smolensk (roughly Rzhev-Vyazma-Bryansk.) Since I prioritize Leningrad early on, something has to give, and that's the center. I figure Moscow is safe until mid August, due to supply problems.

But even in the center he could be doing more in terms of throwaway pickets.


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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 10:20:26 AM   
glvaca

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I dunno, I kind of agree with what he's doing the center. My first real MLR in the center nowadays is east of Smolensk (roughly Rzhev-Vyazma-Bryansk.) Since I prioritize Leningrad early on, something has to give, and that's the center. I figure Moscow is safe until mid August, due to supply problems.

But even in the center he could be doing more in terms of throwaway pickets.



That's also a strong position, although it lacks the protection of the upper Dnepr. Anyway, he'll have to start fighting in the Center soon or risk losing Moscow very quickly.

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 12:37:02 PM   
timmyab

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
You don't need to save everything. Indeed, it's in the Soviet advantage to get a lot of stuff killed, including the tank divisions. They are armament and vehicle hogs, and I will cheerfully use them to screen the infantry so it can withdraw.

The weakness of Soviet tanks is a major design flaw of the game in my opinion.Can you imagine Stavka saying "lets get all our tanks killed off as fast as we can".In particular, units with large numbers of T34 and KV1 should be a threat and a worry to the Axis player.Tone up Soviet armor and tone down the cavalry.

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 1:28:24 PM   
Farfarer

 

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Status: offline 		I think it is the doctrine and training that was weak, not the AFV. In 1941 one saw 6 tanks, nose to tail like circus elephants watching for signal flags from the lead tank - guess which one the panzerjagers shoot at? Most of the video we see is later offensives in dispersed formations with infantry support.

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear II (No MT pls) - 7/8/2012 1:39:19 PM   
timmyab

 

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Joined: 12/14/2010
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Status: offline 		They still caused the Germans problems though.They couldn't penetrate the armor with their standard anti tank weapons.The T34 and KV1 developed a fearsome reputation in 1941 and with good reason.Not to represent this in the game is crazy.

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