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If Stalin can't go to the mountain... put STAVKA on rails.

 
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If Stalin can't go to the mountain... put STAVKA on rails. - 7/7/2012 10:27:54 PM   
governato

 

Posts: 260
Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
Is there any penalty for having an HQ semi permanently 'on rails'?

Moving STAVKA around is one of the easiest way to improve on many rolls
as the dice penalty goes as 'STAVKA distance to unit/4'. Hence, I usually
keep STAVKA on rails at all times and move it around where needed.
Once done with evacuating the SU industry I am considering putting the Front HQs on rails whenever possible.

Is there any downside to it? Yes, Stalin rarely visited the frontlines, but Zhukov, Front Generals and STAVKA high brass were flown regularly to/from the Kremlin for consultation and 'advice'.
Post #: 1
RE: If Stalin can't go to the mountain... put STAVKA on... - 7/11/2012 1:17:32 AM   
Ketza


Posts: 2016
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline 		If you do noy actually move them you will take up the trains they are on. That is the only downside I know of and it is minimal.

(in reply to governato)
Post #: 2
RE: If Stalin can't go to the mountain... put STAVKA on... - 7/13/2012 4:56:08 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 1422
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		Hmm, consider STAVKA or OKH with their staff driving around in an armored train and commanding all units?
Me thinks this should get another penalty for the dice rolls.

(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 3
RE: If Stalin can't go to the mountain... put STAVKA on... - 7/13/2012 4:58:27 PM   
Scook_99

 

Posts: 256
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline 		This is a technique I use for as many German HQs as possible. The upsides of riding the rails: The range for RNG rolls, transferring of SUs, and, you do not use up any supplies and fuel accumulated on an HQ while riding the rails (particularly useful in the summer '41 offensive).

(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 4
RE: If Stalin can't go to the mountain... put STAVKA on... - 7/13/2012 5:10:50 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 2533
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

Hmm, consider STAVKA or OKH with their staff driving around in an armored train and commanding all units?
Me thinks this should get another penalty for the dice rolls.


I tend to agree Dennis, but couldnt u lobby at the same time that the AP cost for moving Armies from one front to another and the same on command levels on the german side to more reasonble levels.( yes i understand this will be one more time, but do it for all the small gnomes ) In the case where this originates from, one can easily use 200 AP swiching out independant armies into front and others out to avoid unacceptble CP penalties and back again. With the current AP levels especially at the russian side, such costs make such changes unmakeble in practice.
While, since i asssume its me that has lead the OP to ask this question and I find this bordering gamey. I'd say in this case with the AP game is as it is, how leaders roll affects modified CV and the nature of the russian sides command structure.
In this particular case its the game that forces players into semi gamey situasions, because using the "right" methode is absurtly expensive.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 7/13/2012 5:19:16 PM >

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 5
RE: If Stalin can't go to the mountain... put STAVKA on... - 8/1/2012 5:30:54 PM   
Sorta

 

Posts: 120
Joined: 11/30/2009
Status: offline 		Does this seem realistic?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

Hmm, consider STAVKA or OKH with their staff driving around in an armored train and commanding all units?
Me thinks this should get another penalty for the dice rolls.


I tend to agree Dennis, but couldnt u lobby at the same time that the AP cost for moving Armies from one front to another and the same on command levels on the german side to more reasonble levels.( yes i understand this will be one more time, but do it for all the small gnomes ) In the case where this originates from, one can easily use 200 AP swiching out independant armies into front and others out to avoid unacceptble CP penalties and back again. With the current AP levels especially at the russian side, such costs make such changes unmakeble in practice.
While, since i asssume its me that has lead the OP to ask this question and I find this bordering gamey. I'd say in this case with the AP game is as it is, how leaders roll affects modified CV and the nature of the russian sides command structure.
In this particular case its the game that forces players into semi gamey situasions, because using the "right" methode is absurtly expensive.

Kind regards,

Rasmus


(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 6
RE: If Stalin can't go to the mountain... put STAVKA on... - 8/1/2012 6:41:47 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 2533
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		As such, no.
In this example as i write above i dont think u cant look at it isolated. The AP costs for changing army HQs from one Front to another is of a nature where it makes it more or less impossible for the russian side to do this in pratice. The russian side is AP very streched as it is making units, changing leader and so on and on.
The same story isnt true for the german side. They have to pay the same cost but the things they are required to use AP on is considerable less. It expensive but it doesnt have to stop their warmachine doing C&C changes. Also once u set on the german side u dont have to do many changes. If u cant help independant HQ on russian side only other way to improve rolls is swicthing in and out army HQ in fronts consistantly.
No way they will have the AP to do that. Yes there is an AP system but its not a "equal" system.

Further more cuz of the CP limits on the russian side u will see a significant portion of army HQ attached directly to STAKVA. So i cant see much issue in that u move STAVKA to where those independant army HQs are located if u for example choose to bundle those independant armies into a certain areas.
That still only leave 2 levels of HQs and chances of passing leader rolls, but at leased ur allowed to "up" the chances on the 2nd aka STAVKA rolls. U on german side has 4 lvls so 4 chances, and generally better chances both through better RNG modifiers and better leaders.

The rules as u describe in ur HR thread, allows for on german side to have army and army group HQ to be on rails. Moving as close as possible to help on rolls with no problem. Not saying every would do it, but obviously some do and where is the "realism" in that?

The whole being on rails is a mechanism of the engine. Considering the difference in the 2 command and control systems i see no reasoning in limiting one side more than other. If u bind OKH/STAVKA u dont affect the sides equally. U have 2 command levels between OKH and corps to manipulate and only 1 on other side. Vs 3 and 2. Apart from all the cases on 1 side being directly attached to STAVKA which isnt needed on the other side.

Kind regards,

Rasmus





< Message edited by Walloc -- 8/1/2012 7:20:13 PM >

(in reply to Sorta)
Post #: 7
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