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ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/5/2012 9:25:31 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
I've read several AT tutorials. They answer a lot of questions but by no means do they explain the new editor for ATG.

I have some questions that I hope will get some answers here in this thread.

As you can see I have put a couple of maps together. Basic 20x20 maps until now. At the present I'm working on a bigger map. like 150x175. Normally I wouldn't jump that big but I've had some experience with editors and I can work on this one as I go. Spending time with it when I have it and coming back to it later if I have to.

The AT tutorials make reference to tabs and locations no longer available in ATG. As I go I'll ask some specific questions for issues that I've run into.

Thanks in advance for anyone that is willing to help with this project.

This map project is a rendition of the old SPI Central Front series. I really liked that series and wanted to see if I could render all 5 maps here in ATG. It's been a challenge to get the North German Plain map into ATG as the hex grid for it and Donau front run E-W instead of N-S like the rest of the game series maps do.

You can follow along as we create this beast. All comments/suggestions are welcome.








This is what my idea of Hamburg looks like with the hex grid changed from E-W over to N-S to match the original map grids.

Because of the way the game handles rivers I expanded the Elbe River out of Hamburg to full sea hexes. You will not bridge these with an AVLB.

Good Hunting.

MR

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/5/2012 9:35:08 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
Post #: 1
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/5/2012 10:21:36 PM   
british exil


Posts: 1534
Joined: 5/4/2006
From: Lower Saxony Germany
Status: offline
Hi Mad Russian, if I understood you correctly, you're planning to make a massive Germany map? Just looking ath map you've created I'm already looking forward to the urban warfare. The battle for Hamburg will be mean.

Keep up the good work.

Mat

_____________________________

"It is not enough to expect a man to pay for the best, you must also give him what he pays for." Alfred Dunhill

WitE,UV,AT,ATG,FoF,FPCRS

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 2
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/5/2012 10:55:08 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
There are 5 maps in the series. From North to South they are:

North German Plain
BAOR
V Corps (Fulda Gap)
Hof Gap
Donau Front


Altogether they are roughly 150x175 hexes. That's just a bit of a map. 26,250 hexes and I will populate each of those from the original maps. As I stated at the beginning. The top most and bottom most map sheets have their hex grains running E-W while the other 3 have theirs running N-S. This makes the North German Plain and Donau Front maps exercise in patience. Checking, cross-checking and re-checking every hex location. Even then they sometimes don't end up in the exact same position. I did the best I could without taking months to make sure every hex is oriented correctly.

To make matters even more fun the maps don't line up directly on top of each other.




The offsetting maps will offer some opportunities for some off map locations not in the original games.

Good Hunting.

MR

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/5/2012 10:58:32 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to british exil)
Post #: 3
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/5/2012 11:16:12 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
First set of questions.



Where can I label hex locations such as villages, towns, rivers?

How do I change the set parameters for a hex? I can see the settings but have yet to find a way to change a single one of them.





Do the parameters for a type of terrain hold true map wide or are they hex specific? In other words, is the heavy forest terrain in hex 10 going to have the exact same values as the heavy forest terrain in hex 85? Or can I make them all different?

Enough for the first set of questions.


Good Hunting.

MR


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/6/2012 8:42:27 AM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 4
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/5/2012 11:21:17 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
I find where I can change the location type. But again, not where I can make any changes to the parameters. I don't want villages to be unlimited stacking airfields.

Or at least not this particular village.

The most basic question is how do you make a selection as to what the hex is? Whether it's a town,village,Major Capital or whatever? I've tried right clicking the selection and hitting enter. Neither of those seems to stick that selection to the hex.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/6/2012 7:57:30 AM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 5
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/5/2012 11:23:15 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
Here is a screen shot of the lower southeastern corner of the North German Plains map.





Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/6/2012 8:39:32 AM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 6
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/5/2012 11:35:40 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
And here is the Bremen part of the North German Plains.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 7
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/6/2012 8:53:20 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
I found part of my problem. There are two Location tabs in the editor. Not sure why; but there are.

The Loc tab in the upper left of the editor and the one marked as LT in the upper right of the editor.

For making in hex location assignments you need the one in the upper left corner marked LT. After having created an entire maps worth of villages and towns I can tell you that it's much better to create the urban terrain in the hex using the LT tab setting from the beginning. It will put the terrain type and name in the hex at the same time that way.

If you haven't assigned nationalities/people to the scenario yet put "0" in the people entry.

Good Hunting.

MR

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/6/2012 8:56:58 AM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 8
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/6/2012 9:14:58 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
Now that I have the cities, town's, villages and airfields named I need to get those names displayed in the game.

So far giving them a name in the editor apparently means nothing to the map. I would think anything I give a name would display on the map. Not so.

This is much like a Treasure Hunt. You need something, or need to know how to do something go searching through the various tutorials to see if you can find it.

But least you get frustrated you should know this editor has a 'Steep Learning Curve'! Which is another term for the documentation is extremely poor.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/6/2012 9:18:17 AM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 9
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/6/2012 11:20:17 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 1573
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: online
If you want the name to appear on the map you have to do it in the Hex menu. Here you can write the name. I am sorry i can't be more specific, i would need to load the editor to be that. I Believe you would need to make a multi hex label.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 10
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/6/2012 1:04:52 PM   
british exil


Posts: 1534
Joined: 5/4/2006
From: Lower Saxony Germany
Status: offline
Mad Russian, try writing Grymme a pm, he has quite an experience as a scenario designer.
He might be able to provide some assistance.

Mat

_____________________________

"It is not enough to expect a man to pay for the best, you must also give him what he pays for." Alfred Dunhill

WitE,UV,AT,ATG,FoF,FPCRS

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 11
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/6/2012 3:59:40 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
Here are the Regimes I have. The Czechs don't show at the bottom.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to british exil)
Post #: 12
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/6/2012 4:00:41 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil

Mad Russian, try writing Grymme a pm, he has quite an experience as a scenario designer.
He might be able to provide some assistance.

Mat


I've talked about this project with Grymme. He wished me luck. I've read all the tutorials and all his threads on how he's created some of his scenarios.

Again, this is much more like a Treasure Hunt. There is no place that has all the answers because the tutorials are all made for AT. Not a single one for ATG. Which is fine except the editor was changed and the look and location of things in the editor changed substantially.

The developer either thought it was unnecessary to create a new tutorial or was too busy.

There was an attempt to put together an ATG College explaining the Editor. It got the first two subjects explained and the rest of them have yet to be completed. Once this is done then the system should explode with player made materials. More than it currently has. Gryme's scenarios show what is possible. They also show that the average designer has no chance at coming close to creating what he made.

This project will be close to some of Gryme's work when it's done. The only thing holding this project back is that I'm involved in 2 other WWIII projects as well and the time it takes to figure out the Editor. There is a lot of stuff that's been written. Mostly about AT, but still a lot of articles out there. At this time I've yet to find a single source, like the ATG College, where you can find whatever you are looking for to be answered.

In defense of the team, it's much more fun to do:

1) Code Work
2) Debug
3) Make scenarios
and DEAD LAST to write a detailed instruction manual to anything.

This project will move forward as I have time to work on it. Which between now and Christmas will be limited.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/6/2012 8:15:34 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to british exil)
Post #: 13
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/6/2012 9:55:15 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
Looking past map making I can see some very interesting situations to be modeled in this fight. Nuclear and chemical weapons systems should prove interesting.

Not to mention creating the modern combat units. I've never done graphics but maybe it's time to start.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/6/2012 10:08:48 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 14
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/6/2012 10:13:49 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

If you want the name to appear on the map you have to do it in the Hex menu. Here you can write the name. I am sorry i can't be more specific, i would need to load the editor to be that. I Believe you would need to make a multi hex label.



Finally figured this out from your prompts. We now have named locations on the map.

This is the Northeastern most corner of the 5 map set.

Thanks.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/6/2012 10:24:22 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 15
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/6/2012 10:18:51 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 1573
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: online
No problem :)
You can change the color of it too, as i recall.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 16
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/6/2012 10:38:24 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
It seems that if the name is more than 5 letters long it will not display it. Is there a way to have it display the entire name?

Wittenburg loses something in the abbreviation....

I tried the 2 multiple hex label and that didn't work. At least I couldn't get it to work for me.

I have found scenarios where Gryme has much longer place names than 5 letters and in multiple colors as you suggest. It's just a question of asking a lot of questions, looking in all the corners and taking a lot of time at trial and error.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/6/2012 11:37:53 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 17
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/7/2012 12:56:52 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 1573
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: online
Actually, you probably tried the Upper and Lower part of the Hex when writing a label. It is true, each hex can only have 5 letters in it, but there is an option to do a multihex label.

Also you can do it manually. Choose the bordering hex, and simply write the name (continued) there, and choose uper portion if the former hex was lower portion, and lower portion if it was upper portion.

There is also an option in the setng window, where you can automatically get it to set the names on the map for ALL locations. Warning though, it will overwrite if there are overlapping names. So that only the latter name is shown completely.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 18
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/7/2012 1:14:49 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 1573
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: online
This might help :)





The other button i am talking about is found in setng, and is called: Auto set map lables.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ernieschwitz -- 7/7/2012 1:16:15 AM >

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 19
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/7/2012 1:55:25 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
When I do Label 1 and Label 2 I get this.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 20
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/7/2012 1:55:57 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
At the same time Gryme has these.





There is no comparison to the way my names are displayed to the way he has his displayed.

Good Hunting.

MR

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/7/2012 1:56:57 AM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 21
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/7/2012 2:01:32 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
Doing Label 1 on top of the hex and then going to the next hex over and doing Label 2 at the bottom of the hex seems to have worked.

Is this how all labels of more than 5 letters are done? This is an incredible amount of work to create a map if it is.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 22
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/7/2012 2:03:32 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

This might help :)





The other button i am talking about is found in setng, and is called: Auto set map lables.


I tried everything I could think of to get the multihex label tab to do SOMETHING. I never got anything on the map when I used it. Not even the original label if I took it out of the 1st Label Box.

From looking at Grymes maps he can not only do labels of more than 5 letters but change the fonts as well the color of the labels.

Which makes for a tremendously powerful editor if you have the time to figure it all out.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/7/2012 2:05:39 AM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 23
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/7/2012 2:36:40 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
Some names just aren't going to get on the map.

NeuSchonningstedt. Let's see that's 17 letters or would need 4 clear hexes to display. Not happening where the village is situated.

Time to abbreviate.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 24
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/7/2012 2:44:34 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
Two and three hex wide names.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 25
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/7/2012 3:01:10 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
Here are the text color codes. These are selected by typing the numbers into the Type 1: and Type 2 slots. Select the tab and then type in the code number for whatever color you want your text.

Label 1 and Label 2 correspond directly with the colors put in Type 1 and Type 2.

Good Hunting.

MR






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/7/2012 4:02:43 AM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 26
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/7/2012 3:16:15 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
I don't understand all the hex naming tabs either.

The top one displays on above the map in the information.

The bottom one displays on the game map.

Not sure what the middle naming slot does.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 27
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/7/2012 4:00:59 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
After some knowledge of how the editor works this is what Hamburg looks like now.

Quite a difference.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 28
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/7/2012 6:13:50 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 12569
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: online
Enough for tonight I'm thinking.

Here is what about 2/3 of the map looks like. Not bad for the first large project; considering every single hex was hand drawn onto his map. The larger city in the lower left corner is Bremen. I don't have it labeled yet. That will happen sometime this weekend.

I would like to finish this first map this weekend.

Once this project is done there are two more WWII games I want to put on here. Another conversion and a game of my own.

Looking pretty good so far but we haven't gone anywhere near the tougher part of the editor yet. The units.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/7/2012 6:16:40 AM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 29
RE: ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front - 7/7/2012 10:26:36 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 1573
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: online
If you want unit advice, i suggest asking Bombur.

Generally i find that there is 3 parts of the build a scenario process.
1). making the map
2). making the units
3). making the event code

I found that i dont master them all. I am pretty good at 1 and 3, but lack the knowledge to do 2 with as much skill as others. Hence i partner with Bombur, who seems to be very good at making units.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 30
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