Matrix Games Forums

Space Program Manager Launch Contest Announced!Battle Academy 2 is out now on iPad!A closer look at rockets in Space Program ManagerDeal of the Week - Pride of NationsA new update for Piercing Fortress EuropaNew screenshots for War in the West!Pike & Shot is now available!Server Maintenance Battle Academy 2 gets updated!Deal of the Week: Advanced Tactics Gold
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Allied CVs, early wwar

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> RE: Allied CVs, early wwar Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 7:42:37 PM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1277
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510
How come the Allies never had a long-legged land based torpedo bomber? No need with their carrier striking power?

in the game, you can use torp-equipped PBYs to devastating effect. rng=14 or better, later models have drop-tanks & search radar. ntm they carry 2 Mk13 torps.

(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 61
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 7:52:30 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16628
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510
How come the Allies never had a long-legged land based torpedo bomber? No need with their carrier striking power?

in the game, you can use torp-equipped PBYs to devastating effect. rng=14 or better, later models have drop-tanks & search radar. ntm they carry 2 Mk13 torps.


You never get enough of them for sustained combat ops.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to jmalter)
Post #: 62
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 7:59:10 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18244
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510
How come the Allies never had a long-legged land based torpedo bomber? No need with their carrier striking power?

in the game, you can use torp-equipped PBYs to devastating effect. rng=14 or better, later models have drop-tanks & search radar. ntm they carry 2 Mk13 torps.


In games involving a PH strike with an effective anti-airfield strike, PBYs typically are hit very hard, as IRL. Replacements are scant, so it takes a long time to offset normal OPs losses with the few amphibious PBYs that come out.

You CAN marshall them together and try a torpedo strike, but woe unto the Allied player that attacks a CAP'ed TF at sea in such circumstances. They'll get shredded and now you're out a whole ****load of naval search aircraft for many months.

_____________________________


(in reply to jmalter)
Post #: 63
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 8:22:51 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25309
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

What about the Med?


Again.....finances. The Med was the most important non-home watered theater but the interwar period saw the purse strings at their tightest. Just prior to 1940 when Italy began it's first offensive there was but a single Hurricane located in Egypt to compliment a scratch force of obsolete planes scattered throughout Africa. This included Wellesleys, Vincents, Valentias, Furys and Hartbeestes. Malta started off with a fighter force of 3 Gladiators.

The RN was the principle defender of the Med and they had their CV's. The Italian battlefleet was small but modernizing with the laying down of the Littorios, but England could match them with existing BB's as long as they didnt' get too stretched (which they did)

Air resources were allocated (in general) with Home Islands first priority followed by all the other theaters....this continued even well after the war started. Thats why it took so long to get Spits abroad much less modern bombers. The UK had to supliment with purchased US designs like the Maryland and Hudson.

mulla mulla. The dicatorships could afford to spend a larger bulk of their capita on military projects (though in Germany's case not as much as previously thought)

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 64
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 9:07:32 PM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

Posts: 1620
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

if billy mitchell were to design a plane, it would probably be a betty

_____________________________

"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 65
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 10:43:34 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12922
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: ME-FL-DC-GM-WA-NE-IL ?
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


if billy mitchell were to design a plane, it would probably be a betty



Naw.....it'd be a B-25!

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to Commander Stormwolf)
Post #: 66
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 10:45:15 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16628
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

What about the Med?


Again.....finances. The Med was the most important non-home watered theater but the interwar period saw the purse strings at their tightest. Just prior to 1940 when Italy began it's first offensive there was but a single Hurricane located in Egypt to compliment a scratch force of obsolete planes scattered throughout Africa. This included Wellesleys, Vincents, Valentias, Furys and Hartbeestes. Malta started off with a fighter force of 3 Gladiators.

The RN was the principle defender of the Med and they had their CV's. The Italian battlefleet was small but modernizing with the laying down of the Littorios, but England could match them with existing BB's as long as they didnt' get too stretched (which they did)

Air resources were allocated (in general) with Home Islands first priority followed by all the other theaters....this continued even well after the war started. Thats why it took so long to get Spits abroad much less modern bombers. The UK had to supliment with purchased US designs like the Maryland and Hudson.

mulla mulla. The dicatorships could afford to spend a larger bulk of their capita on military projects (though in Germany's case not as much as previously thought)


This is all true. Still, it strikes me as odd that there was no interest at all in developing a land-based TB. The Brits were generally very innovative and ready to try new things. Why not a TB?

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 67
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 10:46:18 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12922
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: ME-FL-DC-GM-WA-NE-IL ?
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

What about the Med?


Again.....finances. The Med was the most important non-home watered theater but the interwar period saw the purse strings at their tightest. Just prior to 1940 when Italy began it's first offensive there was but a single Hurricane located in Egypt to compliment a scratch force of obsolete planes scattered throughout Africa. This included Wellesleys, Vincents, Valentias, Furys and Hartbeestes. Malta started off with a fighter force of 3 Gladiators.

The RN was the principle defender of the Med and they had their CV's. The Italian battlefleet was small but modernizing with the laying down of the Littorios, but England could match them with existing BB's as long as they didnt' get too stretched (which they did)

Air resources were allocated (in general) with Home Islands first priority followed by all the other theaters....this continued even well after the war started. Thats why it took so long to get Spits abroad much less modern bombers. The UK had to supliment with purchased US designs like the Maryland and Hudson.

mulla mulla. The dicatorships could afford to spend a larger bulk of their capita on military projects (though in Germany's case not as much as previously thought)


This is all true. Still, it strikes me as odd that there was no interest at all in developing a land-based TB. The Brits were generally very innovative and ready to try new things. Why not a TB?



Like the Torbeau?

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 68
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 10:47:32 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16628
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


if billy mitchell were to design a plane, it would probably be a betty



Naw.....it'd be a B-25!


NO YOURE WRONG!!!!!! It'd be a B1. If you dont agree, you're stoopid!






_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 69
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 10:47:40 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12922
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: ME-FL-DC-GM-WA-NE-IL ?
Status: offline
Many in the USA felt that mediums could carry torpedos. As in the case of the 4 B-26's at Midway , that had two each. I see no reason that a B-25 could carry one.

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 70
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 10:48:12 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12922
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: ME-FL-DC-GM-WA-NE-IL ?
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


if billy mitchell were to design a plane, it would probably be a betty



Naw.....it'd be a B-25!


NO YOURE WRONG!!!!!! It'd be a B1. If you dont agree, you're stoopid!








And what's the name of a B-25?

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 71
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 10:49:32 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16628
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

What about the Med?


Again.....finances. The Med was the most important non-home watered theater but the interwar period saw the purse strings at their tightest. Just prior to 1940 when Italy began it's first offensive there was but a single Hurricane located in Egypt to compliment a scratch force of obsolete planes scattered throughout Africa. This included Wellesleys, Vincents, Valentias, Furys and Hartbeestes. Malta started off with a fighter force of 3 Gladiators.

The RN was the principle defender of the Med and they had their CV's. The Italian battlefleet was small but modernizing with the laying down of the Littorios, but England could match them with existing BB's as long as they didnt' get too stretched (which they did)

Air resources were allocated (in general) with Home Islands first priority followed by all the other theaters....this continued even well after the war started. Thats why it took so long to get Spits abroad much less modern bombers. The UK had to supliment with purchased US designs like the Maryland and Hudson.

mulla mulla. The dicatorships could afford to spend a larger bulk of their capita on military projects (though in Germany's case not as much as previously thought)


This is all true. Still, it strikes me as odd that there was no interest at all in developing a land-based TB. The Brits were generally very innovative and ready to try new things. Why not a TB?



Like the Torbeau?


Beaufighter TB variant? That was well into the war, no?

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 72
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 10:52:02 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16628
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


if billy mitchell were to design a plane, it would probably be a betty



Naw.....it'd be a B-25!


NO YOURE WRONG!!!!!! It'd be a B1. If you dont agree, you're stoopid!








And what's the name of a B-25?


Named for Yvonne Mitchell...



And rightly so.


_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 73
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 10:54:25 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12922
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: ME-FL-DC-GM-WA-NE-IL ?
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

What about the Med?


Again.....finances. The Med was the most important non-home watered theater but the interwar period saw the purse strings at their tightest. Just prior to 1940 when Italy began it's first offensive there was but a single Hurricane located in Egypt to compliment a scratch force of obsolete planes scattered throughout Africa. This included Wellesleys, Vincents, Valentias, Furys and Hartbeestes. Malta started off with a fighter force of 3 Gladiators.

The RN was the principle defender of the Med and they had their CV's. The Italian battlefleet was small but modernizing with the laying down of the Littorios, but England could match them with existing BB's as long as they didnt' get too stretched (which they did)

Air resources were allocated (in general) with Home Islands first priority followed by all the other theaters....this continued even well after the war started. Thats why it took so long to get Spits abroad much less modern bombers. The UK had to supliment with purchased US designs like the Maryland and Hudson.

mulla mulla. The dicatorships could afford to spend a larger bulk of their capita on military projects (though in Germany's case not as much as previously thought)


This is all true. Still, it strikes me as odd that there was no interest at all in developing a land-based TB. The Brits were generally very innovative and ready to try new things. Why not a TB?



Like the Torbeau?


Beaufighter TB variant? That was well into the war, no?

May 1943. It was the nickname for the Beaufighter MK X which could carry a torpedo.


< Message edited by AW1Steve -- 7/6/2012 10:57:54 PM >


_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 74
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 10:56:11 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12922
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: ME-FL-DC-GM-WA-NE-IL ?
Status: offline
Chezdajez did some research arguing against torpedo armed B-25's in the game, but I find that the B-25a could be fitted with a shackle that allowed torpedo use. Then again , the Navy tested a version for CV use, but decided against it.

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 75
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 10:59:46 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16628
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

May 1943. It was the nickname for the Beaufighter MK X which could carry a torpedo.



Yes, I did have to google it but it came back to me as soon as I saw the picture.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 76
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 11:01:35 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12922
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: ME-FL-DC-GM-WA-NE-IL ?
Status: offline
That would be an interesting ability to use PBJ's as torpedo bombers. But with skip bombing and solid noses would you even need them?

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 77
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 11:05:05 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12922
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: ME-FL-DC-GM-WA-NE-IL ?
Status: offline
The 38th BG flew B-26's armed with torpedos. They were the ones at Midway. And supposedly there were 2 squadrons in the Aleutians with torpedo's.

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 78
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 11:05:14 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16628
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Chezdajez did some research arguing against torpedo armed B-25's in the game, but I find that the B-25a could be fitted with a shackle that allowed torpedo use. Then again , the Navy tested a version for CV use, but decided against it.


Youre adding to my argument. So (unlike me) someone put in the time to do the research and discovered that the US did test the possibility, found that it was possible and decided not to go ahead with it. I can totally understand not wanting to deal with CV-born Mitchells but those G variants with all them guns in the nose that were specifically built to attack Japanese shipping...doesnt that sound like the perfect place to use a torpedo bomber?

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 79
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/6/2012 11:37:22 PM   
icepharmy

 

Posts: 264
Joined: 4/3/2010
From: Bangkok/Budapest
Status: offline
When the attack skip bomber concept was put into effect by a USAAF outfit (5th airforce)they decided that a bomb would be a better bargain. Couple of reasons I could think of, Navy not having good torpedoes, navy not giving over torpedoes to MacArthur, shallow draft of vessels being attacked, thin armor of ships in that area, pilot needing to concentrate more on torpedo run, having to fly slower, shallow waters as generally heavy bombers did port strikes, etc... The Soviets used A-20 Havoc teams, one solid nose for AA suppression, one armed with a torpedo. I'm downloading a couple of hundred Osprey books, here is a preview from one of them.
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=AYR_sqJwlAEC&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=skip+bombing+vs+torpedo&source=bl&ots=Om-FJDgLpa&sig=Gh6xfTzcWmJFcR2Q2iVvuZd9K5E&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jmb3T6b8NMjVrQfjlvTKBg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=skip%20bombing%20vs%20torpedo&f=false Seems like the Marines could do them but said no thank you. But again, most of them faced thin skinned shallow draft coastal vessels. I think some of the early Venturas could release torpedoes, but not sure of that

Google torrent Osprey world history series - i didnt check if this book is amongst them. I do spend 300-400 USD on books per month on Amazon (half for shipping to India), so I dont feel so guilty getting this in torrent.

< Message edited by icepharmy -- 7/6/2012 11:39:57 PM >

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 80
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/7/2012 12:03:12 AM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12922
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: ME-FL-DC-GM-WA-NE-IL ?
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Chezdajez did some research arguing against torpedo armed B-25's in the game, but I find that the B-25a could be fitted with a shackle that allowed torpedo use. Then again , the Navy tested a version for CV use, but decided against it.


Youre adding to my argument. So (unlike me) someone put in the time to do the research and discovered that the US did test the possibility, found that it was possible and decided not to go ahead with it. I can totally understand not wanting to deal with CV-born Mitchells but those G variants with all them guns in the nose that were specifically built to attack Japanese shipping...doesnt that sound like the perfect place to use a torpedo bomber?


I think a CV borne B-25 wouldn't be good for an Essex class, but for the Midways? They carrier both P-2V's (Neptunes) and AJ-1 (Savages) for the nuclear attack role. A XB-25 nuclear bomber?

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 81
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/7/2012 12:06:51 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 3932
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: vermont
Status: offline
The design of the most US twin engine bombers allowed a torpedo to be carried but combat proved that bombs worked well enough and were cheaper in terms of just plain cost and in the time and effort required to train crews to launch them.

Besides the B-26s at the time of Midway some PV-1 and PV-2 crews trained with torpedoes but none apparently ever made a "warshot". I have found one curious picture taken on Attu in the Aleutians though which shows a torpedo being loaded onto a PV-2 (kind of a curious training locale I should think).


(in reply to icepharmy)
Post #: 82
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/7/2012 12:22:28 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25309
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

Beaufighter TB variant? That was well into the war, no?



later on, yes.



(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 83
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/7/2012 12:32:04 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25309
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Chezdajez did some research arguing against torpedo armed B-25's in the game, but I find that the B-25a could be fitted with a shackle that allowed torpedo use. Then again , the Navy tested a version for CV use, but decided against it.


yes he did. He found that few of the B-25 groups designated for torpedo training actually did any serious training. Most that did carried concrete weights. His primary argument (after his reserach) was that the groups that had trained (somewhat) were not deployed with the logistics to support it nor was their 'practice' kept up. Thus his argument was that no, one could not justify altering in the game giving some B-25 varients the loudout option. The G4M and G3M's could because it was standard doctrine for them, assuming the logistics were in place which AE now simulates with the Torpedo Ordinance device embedded in certain Air HQ's.

Could the B-25 carry a torp? yes. Could the B-26? yes. Many 2E's could be retrofited to do so including the Ju-88 and S-79 and 84 plus the Beaufort and the Mosquito. Oh and the Soviets strapped a couple onto the IL-4

Hell everyone by now has heard the famous story of the PBY at Lunga jury rigged to lug two torpedoes.

Oh....and the Emily could lug a couple. (wait for it)

Me....i'd like to strap a couple onto a Sunderland + 4 DC's..........a pumpkin and two M-80 firecrackers



< Message edited by Nikademus -- 7/7/2012 12:33:10 AM >

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 84
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/7/2012 12:36:34 AM   
Historiker


Posts: 4738
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

What about the Med?


Again.....finances. The Med was the most important non-home watered theater but the interwar period saw the purse strings at their tightest. Just prior to 1940 when Italy began it's first offensive there was but a single Hurricane located in Egypt to compliment a scratch force of obsolete planes scattered throughout Africa. This included Wellesleys, Vincents, Valentias, Furys and Hartbeestes. Malta started off with a fighter force of 3 Gladiators.

The RN was the principle defender of the Med and they had their CV's. The Italian battlefleet was small but modernizing with the laying down of the Littorios, but England could match them with existing BB's as long as they didnt' get too stretched (which they did)

Air resources were allocated (in general) with Home Islands first priority followed by all the other theaters....this continued even well after the war started. Thats why it took so long to get Spits abroad much less modern bombers. The UK had to supliment with purchased US designs like the Maryland and Hudson.

mulla mulla. The dicatorships could afford to spend a larger bulk of their capita on military projects (though in Germany's case not as much as previously thought)


This is all true. Still, it strikes me as odd that there was no interest at all in developing a land-based TB. The Brits were generally very innovative and ready to try new things. Why not a TB?

What is the Beaufort, if not a TB? She haunted German shipping!

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 85
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/7/2012 12:41:42 AM   
Historiker


Posts: 4738
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline
quote:

Could the B-25 carry a torp? yes. Could the B-26? yes. Many 2E's could be retrofited to do so including the Ju-88 and S-79 and 84 plus the Beaufort and the Mosquito. Oh and the Soviets strapped a couple onto the IL-4

I once had a book in my hand about German torpedo planes. It showed pictures with almost every plane carrying a torpedo.
From the usual suspects Ju-88 and He-111 to Do-17 and Do-217 over to Ju-87 and Fw-190...

Without being a flight engineur, I guess that almost any plane able to lift the weight could carry one. But how effective is another matter, as we all know.

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 86
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/7/2012 12:43:46 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16628
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
So we're back to the original point. It was very possible, but it wasnt done.

The reason for it not being done seems to be that bombs worked well enough.

The conclusion I'm coming up with is that AE does not model the damage which bombs could realistically do to ships. Even with lower historical hit rates it seems that bombs were indeed good enough (seems to me that historical hit rates were more like what you'd expect from the Dutch on turn 2 ).

Of course we cant get AE to model such things because with hit rates we get in the game you could eradicate fleets of ships in a single turn. And if we didnt, there would be a general uprising.

Does that seem fairly accurate or is that an unsustainable leap of inference?

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 87
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/7/2012 12:46:07 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16628
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

What about the Med?


Again.....finances. The Med was the most important non-home watered theater but the interwar period saw the purse strings at their tightest. Just prior to 1940 when Italy began it's first offensive there was but a single Hurricane located in Egypt to compliment a scratch force of obsolete planes scattered throughout Africa. This included Wellesleys, Vincents, Valentias, Furys and Hartbeestes. Malta started off with a fighter force of 3 Gladiators.

The RN was the principle defender of the Med and they had their CV's. The Italian battlefleet was small but modernizing with the laying down of the Littorios, but England could match them with existing BB's as long as they didnt' get too stretched (which they did)

Air resources were allocated (in general) with Home Islands first priority followed by all the other theaters....this continued even well after the war started. Thats why it took so long to get Spits abroad much less modern bombers. The UK had to supliment with purchased US designs like the Maryland and Hudson.

mulla mulla. The dicatorships could afford to spend a larger bulk of their capita on military projects (though in Germany's case not as much as previously thought)


This is all true. Still, it strikes me as odd that there was no interest at all in developing a land-based TB. The Brits were generally very innovative and ready to try new things. Why not a TB?

What is the Beaufort, if not a TB? She haunted German shipping!


I was referring to pre-war aircraft development.

The answer to that question appears to be that Brits didnt have the money to pursue it and the US didnt have the interest to spend the money to pursue it because Billy Mitchell showed them that bombs work.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Historiker)
Post #: 88
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/7/2012 12:47:22 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16628
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

quote:

Could the B-25 carry a torp? yes. Could the B-26? yes. Many 2E's could be retrofited to do so including the Ju-88 and S-79 and 84 plus the Beaufort and the Mosquito. Oh and the Soviets strapped a couple onto the IL-4

I once had a book in my hand about German torpedo planes. It showed pictures with almost every plane carrying a torpedo.
From the usual suspects Ju-88 and He-111 to Do-17 and Do-217 over to Ju-87 and Fw-190...

Without being a flight engineur, I guess that almost any plane able to lift the weight could carry one. But how effective is another matter, as we all know.


I'm not an...ahm....engineur either but I wonder what unfortunate things strapping a torpedo it it would do to a Stuka's flight characteristics.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Historiker)
Post #: 89
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar - 7/7/2012 12:49:12 AM   
Historiker


Posts: 4738
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline
I've found it

I'm presenting: TP Ju-52/3m - now TB Ju-52/3m




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 90
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> RE: Allied CVs, early wwar Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.109