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Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA

 
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Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/1/2012 10:16:53 PM   
John 3rd


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As readers have seen, Marbakka and I have agreed to a game with me playing the side of GLORY and HONOR---Japan.

It is with some trepidation that I initiate a 3rd game. My other two are exceedingly slow-paced and Marbakka Robert) was looking for another game where he could continue to learn as a Japanese player. A large number of emails were exchanged and we have decided to play against each other. He has grave reservations about his experience level versus mine. From what I have witnessed through his other campaign, he has great potential and looks to be a serious Allied player.

There are NO PLANS currently in my head for this game. With Lew and I's game it was decided that I was going after ALL of Australia DAY ONE. That plan has succeeded magnificently. Need to figure out what to do so let me throw it out there for commentary as to Options:

1. ALL India: Fundamentally believe this is impossible as Japan.
2. Indian Right Hook: Take Eastern India for the resources, HI, and Industry while forcing the Allied player into an attritional battle.
3. Australia: LOVE IT! It can be done. Won't do it here.
4. Hawaii: Possible. I nearly succeeded in doing this with Kyperbill. Would be fun to try again.
5. New Zealand: Never tried but an option. Not sure if it is worth the fuel costs.
6. Alaska: Just think of what Canoerebel is dealing with in his new Campaign.
7. Build a conventional perimeter and fight a traditional battle.

I am most drawn to either 2 or 4.

What do people think?

Marbakka has told me he is reading my AARs so he will know my highly aggressive style as well as some of my 'tendencies.' These would include: always splitting my CVs, taking bold risks, shooting for the moon somewhere, etc...

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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/1/2012 10:27:53 PM   
PaxMondo


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All India!!! banzai!!!

Seriously, I think everything is possible, even India. Like China, it depends on how far forward your opponent defends. India div's, like china, start with low morale and exp. They need time to gain both. Once they, their numbers are sufficient to crush the empire. Catch is if they defend too far forward, then IJ can route them and keep them going.

How far forward is too far? Hard to say. I feel that IF IJ is pushing for India from the start, then Calcutta might very well be too far foward. If so, this is your woindow of opportunity. Most allied players start to defend India at Calcutta. So, if you route them at Calcutta, the rest of hte country is open. Several have speculated that a end run to Karachi, and then a mop-up in central india is the best strategy. be interesting to see what you do.

BANZAI BLITSKREIG!!!

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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/1/2012 10:30:49 PM   
Dan Nichols


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I like the idea of 1. I want to see if it can be done.

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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/1/2012 10:38:25 PM   
obvert


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How about trying for India, but the other way around. Land first at Karachi and Surat, take those out, and work your way back. Of course veiling the real intention as you did with OZ. The most difficult part of getting India is that it's so easy to supply at Karachi and so hard to get all the way there in time before many reinforcements have arrived.

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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/1/2012 10:49:28 PM   
John 3rd


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I dropped off TWELVE Japanese Infantry Divisions in late-March 1942 and have--for intents and purposes--taken ALL of Australia. It is my belief that 12 Inf Div dropped into India won't be enough. Garrison requirements will eat up Assault Value pretty quickly. Might be wrong here but this is how it appears to me. Am I wrong?


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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/1/2012 11:10:42 PM   
ny59giants


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The key to India in AE has always been Karachi. It needs to be taken. The question is how??

With the extended map adding two bases up near Aden and Aden no longer being directly connected off map to Abadon, it might be possible. Only fuel and limited supplies flow out of Abadon. Any reinforcement coming out of Aden has to go by one of these new bases. One that could base Zeros, Nells, and Betty.

Therefore, the list of objectives would include: capture Ceylon, at least one or two landing on India (where and with how much needs to be determined), and the big landing at Karachi. The devil will be in the details.

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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 12:57:21 AM   
ItsAMadhouse


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Hi,

I have personally never read an AAR where someone went after Hawaii so I vote Hawaii.

Go GET 'EM!

Joe

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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 1:09:03 AM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

The key to India in AE has always been Karachi. It needs to be taken. The question is how??

With the extended map adding two bases up near Aden and Aden no longer being directly connected off map to Abadon, it might be possible. Only fuel and limited supplies flow out of Abadon. Any reinforcement coming out of Aden has to go by one of these new bases. One that could base Zeros, Nells, and Betty.

Therefore, the list of objectives would include: capture Ceylon, at least one or two landing on India (where and with how much needs to be determined), and the big landing at Karachi. The devil will be in the details.


Aren't YOU my personal DEVIL Mr. Benoit??!!



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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 1:10:17 AM   
John 3rd


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ItsAMadHouse makes a good point. Has anyone EVER done this? I know FatR gave it a college try. I did as well with Kyberbill.


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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 1:41:40 AM   
ItsAMadhouse


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Hi,

It may very well be someone has. I by no means read every AAR that's out there. Still I'd like to see it. The difficulties of pulling it off are pretty large as I see it. I don't have the game in front of me but I know there's very large CD's there and I'm sure plenty of AA. I could see it getting very costly in terms of men, ships, and planes. It would be fun though!

Joe

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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 1:46:31 AM   
PaxMondo


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The difference between Hawaii and India is big. Hawaii creates a logistical problem for allies, but other than that, not much more. Other than the fuel and supply (roughly 500K each starting, maybe you will get 50% of that at best) you capture in Hawaii, you gain little.

India has huge amounts of HI, resources and fuel to be captured. Together with taking out China, this completely removes one theatre from the IJ war until SOV activation.

I don't know if India is doable*, but it certainly is a much bigger prize and requires roughly the same assets to take.

Michaels thoughts are same as mine ... Karachi has to be taken early even though that will activatre those other divisions. They still come in low exp and low morale. You just have to separate India from Aden/Abadan.

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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 1:49:59 AM   
Cribtop


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If you choose India, I concur that Karachi is key.

If you go with the right hook, factor in that you will be giving gainful employment to a lot of otherwise restricted Indian Army units. Crappy and I'll-equipped to start, yes, but they get better and quantity has a quality all its own.

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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 1:54:18 AM   
John 3rd


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THAT is true Cribtop! If I land AT Karachi then we bring in all sorts of bonus units too...


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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 1:55:25 AM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ItsAMadhouse

Hi,

It may very well be someone has. I by no means read every AAR that's out there. Still I'd like to see it. The difficulties of pulling it off are pretty large as I see it. I don't have the game in front of me but I know there's very large CD's there and I'm sure plenty of AA. I could see it getting very costly in terms of men, ships, and planes. It would be fun though!

Joe


You and I may have similar views of FUN. Said just about the same thing when I was planning for Aussieland from Dec 7th on.



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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 2:03:20 AM   
John 3rd


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Perhaps a more pertinent question might be what would ALLIED players most fear?


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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 3:35:44 AM   
ny59giants


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Regardless of what you do, I just looked at the divisions in Manchuria and Korea. The three that must take high priority of PP will be the 20th, 8th, and 14th Divisions. All have experience levels of 80. "IF" India, then they need to be set to prep for an important base on turn 1.

The key will be a sufficiently strong enough attack in the southern part of India to the Burmese border to get those two big Aussie Divisions out of place. Either one at Karachi can make this difficult. You will have to do what you did around Sydney and land before April 1st.

Thankfully, you have those SNLF Divisions to maintain some offensive tempo in the South Pacific.

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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 5:36:15 AM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Regardless of what you do, I just looked at the divisions in Manchuria and Korea. The three that must take high priority of PP will be the 20th, 8th, and 14th Divisions. All have experience levels of 80. "IF" India, then they need to be set to prep for an important base on turn 1.

The key will be a sufficiently strong enough attack in the southern part of India to the Burmese border to get those two big Aussie Divisions out of place. Either one at Karachi can make this difficult. You will have to do what you did around Sydney and land before April 1st.

Thankfully, you have those SNLF Divisions to maintain some offensive tempo in the South Pacific.


I bought out the 14th and (I think) the 20th for use in Australia. Darned fine units. The April 1st deadline is possible if I can get a quick conquest of the DEI. The key to that is a quick fall of the Philippines. Bringing 5 ID in Lew and I's game worked great. I had Luzon in mid-February. Would have to repeat that again for an April 1st landing at Karachi.

Pearl Harbor and Hawaii fascinates me while India scares the Hell out of me.

YES: The SNLF Assault Brigades do allow for a bit more flexibility but they are brittle. I like their attack strength (205 I think) but they do fall apart fairly easily. Makes sense due to how they were IRL during the war.


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 7/2/2012 5:37:37 AM >


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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 5:43:37 AM   
John 3rd


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If I was to rectify my mistakes from Kyberbill and I's game for Hawaii, I would land at least three of the islands so I could develop multiple AF to operate from. My first attempt saw me grab just Hawaii and those two bases were not enough to keep Bill's BBs from raising HOLY HELL with my troops/AF. This time I would take the Isle north of Oahu, Hawaii, and that little one NW of Hawaii. Four bases to develop and use immediately SHOULD serve to overwhelm the aerial side of the equation and lay a big hurting stick on the Fleet. I could grab these bases for the use of 2-3 Inf Div, lay siege to PH, and land at my convenience.

India means ground warfare which is not a strength of mine while Hawaii would mean naval action. THAT is far more interesting as a strength for me. Tough choice. Should I go with something I've already attempted to do or do something totally new and far more risky?

India---Pearl Harbor?

Hmmmm...


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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 9:36:46 AM   
seille

 

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I vote for Hawai. I just want to see you finishing the job you started against Kyberbill.

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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 12:03:48 PM   
denisonh


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India.

If you are going to challenge yourslef, and India most certainly will, at least get a payoff.

Not to mention, I would like to see a full blown India campaign with the extended map to see how it plays out.

With the points that nyGiants59 makes on the extended map, not sure that Karachi is as key as before because of the inability to supply it like before.

Let's see!

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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 12:08:18 PM   
Historiker


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quote:

Marbakka has told me he is reading my AARs so he will know my highly aggressive style as well as some of my 'tendencies.' These would include: always splitting my CVs, taking bold risks, shooting for the moon somewhere, etc...

Until someone destroys your toys. Then the big whining begins!



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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 6:21:42 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

quote:

Marbakka has told me he is reading my AARs so he will know my highly aggressive style as well as some of my 'tendencies.' These would include: always splitting my CVs, taking bold risks, shooting for the moon somewhere, etc...

Until someone destroys your toys. Then the big whining begins!




Whine? I NEVER WHINE. EVER!! EVER!!!

OK. Maybe I need some self-examination...


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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 6:26:58 PM   
Historiker


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I haven't seen you quit any game, but I'm really curious what you'd do once your opponent picked your CVs off the surface in piecemail.

While it is really funny to read your AARs because of your gamestyle, I wonder how you'd do against someone who uses your gamestyle against you from turn one onwards.

< Message edited by Historiker -- 7/2/2012 6:27:31 PM >


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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 6:27:37 PM   
John 3rd


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I sent Turn One to Marbakka yesterday but since Sundays are very big for him (Pastor) I don't expect to see anything until tonight. In the opening moves I bought out the Imperial Guards Brigade at Tokyo and ordered it to move about 6-8 hexes from Midway. The 144th Inf Reg starts at Truk. Having those units begin where they are PRIOR to me ever starting this thread makes me think that Hawaii is the choice. As much as you guys would love to see India, I cannot get over the 'sinking' feeling I have with attempting that Operation. Australia is do-able as the Japanese, however, India--I am convinced--is a no-go. A Right Hook destined to take Eastern India might be workable but I cannot see the sense of freeing up all those units AND triggering emergency reinforcements. NONE of that happens with hitting Hawaii.

These are my thoughts. Any rebuttal or differing ideas?


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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 6:32:03 PM   
Historiker


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Do you intend to take Hawaii for the sake of taking Hawaii, or do you see any real strategic value in this?

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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 6:34:47 PM   
Dan Nichols


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My thoughts. If my opponent invaded Hawaii, I would let him sit there for years. I would move all Air and LCU replacements to Eastern USA and then have them take the free ride to Cape Town. I would move most TKs and xAKs to EUSA and move 2+ Million fuel and supply to Cape Town. Then move all to Western Australia and then on to the DEI. In the second half of 1944 or early 1945 I could retake Hawaii if I wanted.

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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 6:37:05 PM   
John 3rd


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Just might answer for the sake of taking Hawaii.

I've always felt that if one could take PH or render it unusable to the American Fleet you would mightily advance the Japanese cause. It totally turns the axis of probable attack on its head. Having Midway, the Line Islands, and Hawaii would create a massive line from which the American Commander would be force to either (1) go north through the Aleutians, (2) start down in Suva/Pago Pago, (3) work from Australia, or (4) come from India. The capture would massively expand Allied supply lines as well as take an excellent anchorage/repair yard out of the picture. Note that I don't HAVE to take PH. Having everything but PH still achieves the same thing.


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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 6:39:23 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

I haven't seen you quit any game, but I'm really curious what you'd do once your opponent picked your CVs off the surface in piecemail.

While it is really funny to read your AARs because of your gamestyle, I wonder how you'd do against someone who uses your gamestyle against you from turn one onwards.


It has happened before but never in an AAR. Simply continue but massively shift the style of play. When Canoe and I had our epic game in WitP, it became a ton of fun trying to counter-punch as he waged his war invading Hokkaido and Iwo Jima. That was a wild-and-crazy campaign!


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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 6:41:53 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

My thoughts. If my opponent invaded Hawaii, I would let him sit there for years. I would move all Air and LCU replacements to Eastern USA and then have them take the free ride to Cape Town. I would move most TKs and xAKs to EUSA and move 2+ Million fuel and supply to Cape Town. Then move all to Western Australia and then on to the DEI. In the second half of 1944 or early 1945 I could retake Hawaii if I wanted.



That makes perfect sense to me and is something I might do as well. The real key to Hawaii is Naval Attrition. Can this be done in such a way to massively damage the American Fleet to slow down the eventual counter-offensive. The answer truly depends on the Allied opponent I guess. Kyberbill took the move as a chance to fight back and really took some serious risks to do so.


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RE: Innocently Slaughtering: Japanese Glory--RA - 7/2/2012 7:02:57 PM   
FatR

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

ItsAMadHouse makes a good point. Has anyone EVER done this? I know FatR gave it a college try. I did as well with Kyberbill.


I know I followed footsteps of another player, who had an AAR on this forum, but can't remember his name. It might be referenced in early parts of my AAR.

That said, I think that entire India is the most interesting and strategically valuable goal and eastern India is the second most strategically valuable (although I think that it needs to be evacuated by about late autumn, if Allies hold the rest of the subcontinent).

< Message edited by FatR -- 7/2/2012 7:04:06 PM >


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