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RE: LOST VICTORIES

 
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RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/29/2013 5:51:03 AM   
Commander Cody


Posts: 866
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline
GJ: Once again, you wreaked havoc on an Allied fleet, albeit failing to administer the coup-de-grace. On the bright side, both of those were strategic victories and will slow down the pace of the Allied advance. You chewed up a lot of amphib and ground forces this time, as well. Well done, Sir.

PT Boats: These things are quite limited in fuel, which to me is working just fine. Gmoney is right. The only thing I'd revise in the game is making them more vulnerable to severe weather on the open seas, which is no doubt beyond the likely scope of WITP-AE. WITP 2, on the other hand...

Cheers,
CC

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1951
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/29/2013 8:48:53 AM   
obvert


Posts: 7053
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: gmoney

I can't speak on pt boats in particular, but I am a fisherman (do it for a living), and I can tell you that boat size isn't the limiting factor in traveling the oceans, fuel is. So assuming the pt boats could refuel under way, they could conceivable cross the entire pacific from SF to Tokyo or even farther. The only other limiting factor would be weather, severe weather could swamp the pt boats, and I'm not sure the game models weather effects on any ship at sea other than cold weather zones. Speaking from experience, I've fished as far out as 400 miles from port on a 48ft trawler for 8-14 days at a time, in good weather and not so good weather, and I'm here to write about it. :) Just something to think about.

edit: Another thing to keep in mind is that the PT boats primary advantage was surprise. It was small, and against the back-drop of an Island were had to detect both visually and on radar. Once in the open water the PT boats lose this advantage, and their only advantages are speed and maneuverability, And if you are busy dodging gunfire it's hard to aim a torpedo straight enough to hit anything. Torpedoes of WW2 ran in a straight line, and had to be aimed in such a way as to intersect with a ships projected path. It would be virtually impossible to properly aim a torpedo while weaving and dodging to avoid gunfire, and as a result pt boats that lost the element of surprise were not very effective. This is why pt boats generally hugged the shore, to prevent early detection, and not because they were incapable of traveling open oceans.



As I understand it fishing trawlers are made to withstand severe weather, have a deep draft and thus good bouancy and less roll than something shallow like a PT. I certainly wouldn't like to meet a 20-30 foot swell in a 78-80 foot PT boat with a 5-6 foot draft. I would think those boats would have a tendency to roll severely in any weather at all, and also not be capable of their high speed runs in any kind of rough water simply because they'd be coming out and crashing down between every swell to the point the human crew would be incapable of anything, if indeed the boat was still afloat.

This is from a complete non-seaman, so please correct my (mis)-understanding if there are some completely off-base comments here. Although I don't ride in them often, I do look at a lot of boats and it seems anything built for rough weather and open ocean has a deep draft or something to steady the boat (a deep extending keel), as well as to cut through oncoming water and keep the heading true.

In game I we're probably going to have to deal with PTs doing a lot of things they may not have been able to do well, but that is true for many elements and usually works both ways.

< Message edited by obvert -- 1/29/2013 8:50:52 AM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to gmoney)
Post #: 1952
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/29/2013 12:12:45 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 12271
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Kai-eilanden at 81,116

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 3,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 73

Allied aircraft
B-25D1 Mitchell x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-25D1 Mitchell: 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Soryu
CVE Taiyo, Bomb hits 1
DD Amatsukaze
CVL Ryuho, Bomb hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing and strafing from low level
Naval Attack: 6 x 500 lb SAP Bomb


Wow! Amazingly effective attack by 6 unescorted B-25's. Those boys are dy-no-MITE! He has been training them for a bit. Amazing they even took off without escort like that. He has evidently created an elite skip-bombing B-25 squadron.




depends on what you see as elite. As the Allied, I have all my medium USAAF bomber pilots trained to 70 low nav and 70 grd (as a result of this they also got 70 def and 50-55 exp) when they join a squadron later than 6/42. With all the excess fighter and bomer squadrons this is no prob at all and getting to 70 skill only takes 6-8 weeks on average. Add in that attack bombers attack with full bombload at low level and you have your ship killers, 70 lownav is all you need and getting them above 70 with training takes forever so it would be a waste of a pilot slot in a training squadron IMO.

_____________________________


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 1953
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/29/2013 4:36:14 PM   
gmoney

 

Posts: 134
Joined: 11/22/2009
Status: offline
I agree that PT boats weren't able to withstand heavy seas, but neither was the fishing boat I mentioned. we only drew 4ft of water empty (we were never really empty while fishing though) and had to use 'birds'-giant planers-for stability in rough waters. One thing to keep in mind though is that unless you are in stormy weather, waves offshore are generally gentle swells with a long interval (time between waves) and it is actually calmer in 1000+ft of water than in 100ft of water in the same conditions. 10 foot swells with a 5-6 second interval are a lot easier to deal with than 6 foot waves with 3-4 second intervals you find near shore. That being said, I agree-pt boats caught in sever weather should be in trouble, but so should destroyers/LST type ships. And for the record, before the war the US realized that the pt boat designed by ELCO was not stable enough in rough seas, and ordered a redesign of the PT boats specifically to improve their rough sea capabilities. This site has some general information on pt boats and links to books with more information- http://www.ptboats.org/20-01-05-ptboat-001.html

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1954
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/29/2013 5:00:26 PM   
gmoney

 

Posts: 134
Joined: 11/22/2009
Status: offline
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/pt/doctrine/part1.htm another good read-this is the actual 1942 tactical ops manual issued to PT commanders in ww2. I also found on submarines issued in 1944, haven't yet found one from before that time.

(in reply to gmoney)
Post #: 1955
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/29/2013 8:21:10 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6230
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
May 05, 43

At Moa the allies are doing their max effort to maximise their progress there. Already 4 units and 3,000 men on the island, with mines and PTs already in place

His subs seem immune to my mines, while his are deadly against my own subs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 116 encounters mine field at Moa (74,116)

Japanese Ships
SS I-169, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage


However, a HUGE LRCAP from Bathrust appeared over Moa (very LRCAP indeed!) and claimed 20 zeros and nearly 20 Helens, along with 5 Jakes...OUCH!

But we gave him the same medicine, ambushing his milky runs over Mitikyna in Burma, shooting down 98 enemy planes

A mixed day, with the KB hunted by not less than 30 subs near Sorong....



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Taberfane at 82,117

Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis
CA Chicago
CL Nashville
CL Achilles
DD Shaw
DD Hughes
DD Bancroft
DD Taylor
DD DeHaven
DD Cony
DD Chevalier

Japanese ground losses:
380 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 29 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Guns lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Airbase hits 5
Runway hits 48
Port hits 7
Port supply hits 1

CA--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Myitkyina , at 64,42

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 38
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 52
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 22

Allied aircraft
P-66 Vanguard x 3
Beaufort I x 9
Blenheim IV x 33
Hudson IIIa x 3
Hurricane IIb Trop x 4
Hurricane IIc Trop x 45
Wellington Ic x 3
P-40E Warhawk x 18

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort I: 5 destroyed
Blenheim IV: 15 destroyed, 2 damaged
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed
Hurricane IIc Trop: 5 destroyed
Wellington Ic: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed

Runway hits 6

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Myitkyina , at 64,42

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 16
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 37
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 14

Allied aircraft
P-43A-1 Lancer x 12
Blenheim IV x 12
Hurricane IIc Trop x 3
B-26B Marauder x 3
P-40K Warhawk x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-43A-1 Lancer: 1 destroyed
Blenheim IV: 3 destroyed
B-26B Marauder: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Myitkyina , at 64,42

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 7
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 32
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 10

Allied aircraft
P-66 Vanguard x 9
Hudson IIIa x 9
Hurricane IIb Trop x 12
Wellington Ic x 12

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-66 Vanguard: 2 destroyed
Hudson IIIa: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
Hurricane IIb Trop: 2 destroyed
Wellington Ic: 6 destroyed, 2 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Myitkyina , at 64,42

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 2
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 22
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 6

Allied aircraft
B-26B Marauder x 9
P-39D Airacobra x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-26B Marauder: 1 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 343rd Base Group , at 74,116 (Moa)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 25 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 21

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 22
F4F-4 Wildcat x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied ground losses:
54 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 9th Port Maint Engineer Battalion, at 74,116 (Moa)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 25

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 14
F4F-4 Wildcat x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 8 destroyed, 2 damaged

No Allied losses



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Lautem , at 72,115

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 38
A6M5 Zero x 1
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 1

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Ic x 9
B-17E Fortress x 6
B-17F Fortress x 12
B-24D Liberator x 11
B-24D1 Liberator x 11
B-25C Mitchell x 9
B-25D1 Mitchell x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 damaged
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufighter Ic: 2 destroyed
B-17E Fortress: 1 damaged
B-17F Fortress: 1 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged
B-25C Mitchell: 1 destroyed

Runway hits 15
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Lautem , at 72,115

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6
A6M5 Zero x 1
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 1

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 6
B-24D1 Liberator x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 damaged
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 damaged
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed on ground
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 2 damaged

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 7



(in reply to gmoney)
Post #: 1956
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/30/2013 7:12:26 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6230
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
May 06, 43

Ok guys, it's getting serious now. We're counterinvading Moa. We can't wait no more. Already 5,000 allies, 13 guns and 20 vehicles are present. Nearly a regiment strong. We have to act. Tomorrow we'll be landing the 8th Division, along with 2 ind. Eng Regiments and 2 tank regiments. I had to work with what i had at hand, so it won't be a perfect amphib solution. A fast transport TF, supported by 2 amphib TFs. Tanaka will lead the operation, while Nagumo CVs will be guarding against the allied intervention...which will arrive, for sure.
We'll have to fight against waves of PTs and against the allied cruiser TFs that every night guard the approaches of Moa. We'll do our best...if we let him build that base it's over.


Today he bombed Lautem with 100 4Es, in order to keep it close. Tomorrow he will attack Alor...i'm sure of that and Dili too.

The good news of the day comes again from Burma. After yesterday ambush over Mitikyna he tried to make me pay for the insult and came sweeping Mandalay with P-40Ks and Hurricanes...boy that was a bad idea. My crack Tojos and Georges (The first at 31k, the latters at 20k feet) ate the enemies alive, shooting down 23 hurris and 15 P-40s, for the loss of 2 Tojos and 1 George and not a single pilot WIA or KIA.

the CV Akagi was targetted by an enemy sub near Sorong...luckly he missed

Tomorrow 20 of my subs will be guarding the southern approaches of Moa. I know he will come sweeping with heavy SAGs. I cannot stop him, but this time he will have to face my BB/CAs, along with the KB's planes and the LBAs... the KB is still 460 planes strong, so it's still able to give some headhaces to Brad....

i hate to risk my assets...but it's now or never...




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Moa at 74,117

Japanese Ships
SS RO-62, hits 10

Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis
CA Chicago
CL Nashville
DD Taylor
DD DeHaven
DD Cony
DD Chevalier
DD Shaw
DD Hughes
DD Bancroft

SS RO-62 is sighted by escort
DD Shaw attacking submerged sub ....
DD Hughes attacking submerged sub ....
DD Bancroft fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Moa at 74,117

Japanese Ships
SS I-10

Allied Ships
APD Litchfield
AVD McFarland
APD Lawrence


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Boela at 81,109

Japanese Ships
CV Akagi
CS Chitose
DD Oshio
DD Hatsukaze
DD Hikokaze
DD Satsukaze
DD Takakaze
DD Katsutade

Allied Ships
SS Sawfish, hits 4

SS Sawfish launches 6 torpedoes at CV Akagi




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 29 NM, estimated altitude 31,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 33
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 42

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 16

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIc Trop: 4 destroyed




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 43 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 33
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 39

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 16

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIc Trop: 6 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 32,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 32
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 34

Allied aircraft
P-40K Warhawk x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40K Warhawk: 7 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Lautem , at 72,115

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Ic x 2
B-17E Fortress x 17
B-17F Fortress x 13
B-24D Liberator x 24
B-24D1 Liberator x 44
B-25C Mitchell x 6
B-25D1 Mitchell x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed on ground
N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed on ground
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 12
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 55

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Kusaie Island at 125,118

Japanese Ships
PB Kyo Maru #1
PB Fumi Maru #2
xAK Liverpool Maru
E W-25
E Fuyo
PB Tama Maru #8

Allied Ships
SS Gunnel, hits 6, and is sunk


FINALLY!!!! This is the first sub sunk with the old way...only with DCs and gunnery!!!




(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1957
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/30/2013 8:35:28 AM   
veji1

 

Posts: 960
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline
wow.. looking forward to that momentous battle.. I fear it will end up a damp squib, with your transports turning away and dispersing because of the heavy opposition, or not bein able to start unloading because of all the OPs spent.

Good luck nonetheless.

_____________________________

Adieu Ô Dieu odieux... signé Adam

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1958
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/30/2013 9:22:24 AM   
obvert


Posts: 7053
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
Oh my! This is going to be interesting! You have a good mobile reserve there. You may already be doing this, but could you make a false invasion with some xAKL a day before the real deal, just to see what he's bringing and also to take some of it off the board? Either way it's a risk. You could go with deceipt and lose assets for nothing, or go all-in and lose troops on ships.

Tough to call, but I'm sure you have some surprises as well as a good amount of force to get this done.

As a side note, with the KB in the area you should also bag a ton of whatever PBY/Dakota transports he's been using to get troops onto Moa.

< Message edited by obvert -- 1/30/2013 11:27:14 AM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to veji1)
Post #: 1959
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/30/2013 10:03:24 AM   
veji1

 

Posts: 960
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline
I support the use of picket ships.. Dare I say if he is sending PTs 200 miles through blue water from his bases, the use of a few picket ships shouldn't lead to an overreaction, or at least spark a legitimate discussion.

_____________________________

Adieu Ô Dieu odieux... signé Adam

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1960
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/30/2013 10:55:15 AM   
koniu

 

Posts: 2197
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: online
Good luck.




_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to veji1)
Post #: 1961
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/30/2013 10:44:17 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6230
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
May 07, 43

Mines... waves of PTs everywhere.... picket ships (AMs and SCs everywhere)...packs of enemy subs....

Despite all of that we landed.

Akagi took a torp from a pesky sub (more than 30 are hunting!) and now she's in danger... 25 flt damage....ouch...

Tomorrow will be a decisive day...

He tried to lure my KB's CAP making several sweeps over Selroe (don't know if this is exactly kosher...) and he sent 100 4Es to bomb my troops there... can't see a reason if not to lure my CAP away...

We fought back all his unescorted bombers, destroying 30 of them for no loss... we hit a couple of mines but the PTs were pushed back by our CL/DDs.... for sure tomorrow the enemy cruisers will arrive...and we'll try to be ready to meet them...

Let's see how it goes...



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 25 encounters mine field at Moa (74,116)

Japanese Ships
PB Takunan Maru #3, Mine hits 1, heavy damage



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Moa at 74,116, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Kuma
DD Arashi
DD Hagikaze
DD Tanikaze
DD Ayanami

Allied Ships
PT-258
PT-259
PT-260
PT-261
PT-262
PT-263
PT-264
PT-298
PT-299
PT-301
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Lautem at 73,116, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Yugiri
DD Oboro
DD Sazanami
DD Ushio

Allied Ships
PT-258, Shell hits 1
PT-259
PT-260
PT-261
PT-262
PT-263
PT-264
PT-298
PT-299
PT-301

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Moa at 74,116

Japanese Ships
APD Fuji
CL Isuzu
PB Yamabato Maru
PB Marei Maru
PB Akagane Maru
PB Tonon Maru
PB Taiko Maru
PB Santos Maru
PB Spey Maru
PB Tokyo Maru
PB Kimnon Maru
PB Nishi Maru

Allied Ships
SS Sunfish, hits 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 284 encounters mine field at Moa (74,116)

Japanese Ships
PB Bunzan Maru, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Moa at 74,116

Japanese Ships
DD Fumizuki
CL Abukuma
DD Yanagi
DD Uzuki
DD Susuki
DD Nagatsuki

Allied Ships
SS Tinosa


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Boela at 78,113

Japanese Ships
CS Chitose
DD Hikokaze
DD Amatsukaze
DD Satsukaze
DD Katsutade
DD Tadeshiwa
DD Minegumo

Allied Ships
SS Grunion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Boela at 78,113

Japanese Ships
CV Kaga, Torpedo hits 1
CS Chitose
DD Hikokaze
DD Amatsukaze
DD Satsukaze
DD Katsutade
DD Tadeshiwa
DD Minegumo

Allied Ships
SS Grunion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Moa at 74,116

Japanese Ships
BB Ise
BB Fuso
CA Suzuya
DD Suzukaze
DD Kawakaze
DD Harusame
DD Ishikaze
DD Susukaze
DD Arikaze
DD Uranami

Allied Ships
SS Sunfish


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Moa at 74,116

Japanese Ships
BB Ise
BB Fuso
BB Nagato
CA Suzuya
CA Mogami

Allied ground losses:
470 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 8 destroyed, 21 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled

Port hits 20
Port supply hits 5



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Moa (74,116)

TF 25 troops unloading over beach at Moa, 74,116

Japanese ground losses:
143 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 21 (1 destroyed, 20 disabled)

Type 1 Medium Tank lost in surf during unload of 3rd Tank Rgt


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Moa (74,116)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

25 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
CL Yubari
CL Isuzu
PB Spey Maru
PB Tokyo Maru
PB Kimnon Maru
PB Nishi Maru
PB Yamabato Maru
PB Santos Maru
PB Syozui Maru
PB Okuyo Maru
PB Nagato Maru
PB Marei Maru
PB Kenan Maru
PB Kohoku Maru
PB Kensin Maru
PB Ikuta Maru
PB Akagane Maru
PB Okuyo Maru #2
PB Okiyu Maru
PB Tonon Maru
PB Taiko Maru
PB Santos Maru
APD Tade

Japanese ground losses:
52 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
9 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Moa (74,116)

TF 161 troops unloading over beach at Moa, 74,116

Japanese ground losses:
1010 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 84 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 95 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 24 (0 destroyed, 24 disabled)
Vehicles lost 11 (0 destroyed, 11 disabled)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Invasion Support action off Moa (74,116)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

7 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
PB Spey Maru
PB Tokyo Maru
PB Kimnon Maru
PB Nishi Maru
PB Yamabato Maru
PB Santos Maru
PB Syozui Maru
PB Okuyo Maru
PB Nagato Maru
PB Marei Maru
PB Kenan Maru
PB Kohoku Maru
PB Kensin Maru
PB Ikuta Maru
PB Akagane Maru
PB Okuyo Maru #2
PB Okiyu Maru
PB Tonon Maru
PB Taiko Maru
PB Santos Maru
APD Tade

Allied ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Moa at 73,117, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Yugiri
DD Oboro
DD Sazanami
DD Ushio

Allied Ships
PT-126, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-220
PT-225
PT-226
PT-227
PT-228
PT-229
PT-230, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-231
PT-232, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-233

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Moa at 73,117, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Yugiri
DD Oboro
DD Sazanami
DD Ushio

Allied Ships
PT-122
PT-123, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-127
PT-145
PT-174
PT-189, Shell hits 5, and is sunk
PT-219
PT-221
PT-300
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Damar at 75,116

Japanese Ships
E Hato
CL Teshio
CL Kinu
E Kari
E Sagi
E Kamo
E Kiji

Allied Ships
SS Scamp



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 69th/B Division, at 78,118 (Selaroe) mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......................

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 12 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 13

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x P-38G Lightning sweeping at 30000 feet



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 69th/B Division, at 78,118 (Selaroe)

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 11 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 13

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x P-38G Lightning sweeping at 30000 feet



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 69th/C Division, at 78,118 (Selaroe)

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 46 NM, estimated altitude 33,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 14

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x P-38G Lightning sweeping at 30000 feet



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 69th/C Division, at 78,118 (Selaroe)

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 33,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 15

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x P-38G Lightning sweeping at 30000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Moa at 74,116

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 21
A6M5 Zero x 18

Allied aircraft
SBD-3 Dauntless x 18

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 13 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Moa at 74,116

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 21
A6M5 Zero x 20

Allied aircraft
SBD-3 Dauntless x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 7 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 69th/C Division, at 78,118 (Selaroe)

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Ic x 2
B-17E Fortress x 13
B-17F Fortress x 10
B-24D Liberator x 18
B-24D1 Liberator x 38
B-25C Mitchell x 9
B-25D1 Mitchell x 9
P-38F Lightning x 37
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
35 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Moa at 74,116

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 21
A6M5 Zero x 39

Allied aircraft
Beaufort V x 3
Beaufort VIII x 3
SBD-3 Dauntless x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort V: 1 destroyed
Beaufort V: 1 destroyed by flak
Beaufort VIII: 2 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CL Natori


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Babar at 76,119

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 16
P1Y1 Frances x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y1 Frances: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
AMc Tongkol, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AMc Uki, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x P1Y1 Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Moa at 74,116

Japanese Ships
PB Tokotsu Maru
PB Daiya Maru

Allied Ships
SS Snook, hits 1








Attachment (1)

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1962
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/30/2013 11:19:32 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3714
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: online
So far, pretty good.

What condition are your troops ashore? How many are left to unload?

_____________________________


(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1963
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/30/2013 11:27:52 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6230
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
LATEST NEWS: MOA is CAPTURED! 4,000 americans have been wiped out! BANZAI!!!!

Now Selroe... i think he will try to land there now...

Good. This operation was vital. We managed to get it fast and, bringing the hammer, we managed to get it with few losses...

Crib, our troops were in bad conditions (50 fatigue and 50 distr) but we bombed (both naval and air) the hell out of them...and, for once, weather was on my side!

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 1964
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/30/2013 11:36:21 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3714
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: online
Banzai!!! This was key. Now he effectively gains nothing for this move and suffered unacceptable losses. He will have to go back to the drawing board and come at you with more next time. End result - Significant Japanese operational victory.

_____________________________


(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1965
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/31/2013 12:19:32 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6230
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
May 08, 43

So Brad lost his heart and didn't send his Cruisers against my landings...what a mistake!
We managed to keep his PTs off and, a part from the hit against my CV yesterday (ouch!), the heavy air ASW kept them off.

We, again, repulsed the attacks of his unescorted bombers and we sent something like 350 bombers against the troops at Moa, while another BBs run pounded the place.

At the end of the day we had a regiment, an eng regiment and 2 tank regiments...we shock attacked and we obtain a clean victory! BANZAI! Timing was everything here...if i waited to gather more amphib ships, i would have probably lost the momentum (basically i only used xAKLs and PBs).

We had a modern CL damaged by his deaded B25 strafing...but she should make it

Now it's time to re-organize and lick our wounds. The KB will be reunited at Bab, while Kaga, ryuho and Tahio will get back to Japan for repairs and upgrades, while 1 CV and 3 CVLs will move back to the pacific.

Yes, it's an operational victory. I agree. losses were heavy but, for the moment, we managed to repulse him.

Now we don't have to lose concentration: Sumatra and Thailand are getting their badly needed renforcements. Kusiae and Ponape are getting theirs too, while we're slowly shrinking back to Bouganville and New Britain.

Com'on!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Moa at 74,116

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna
BB Kongo
CA Kumano
CA Takao
CA Chikuma
CA Tone
DD Kiku
DD Tsuga
DD Kuri
DD Hokaze
DD Yakaze
DD Shiokaze
DD Akikaze
DD Hatakaze
DD Hatsushima
DD Nenohi
DD Hatsuharu
DD Yamakaze
DD Murasame

Allied ground losses:
429 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 31 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled

Port hits 3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Moa at 74,116

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 21

Allied aircraft
Beaufort V x 3
Beaufort VIII x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort V: 2 destroyed
Beaufort VIII: 2 destroyed




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 5th USN Special Construction Battalion, at 74,116 (Moa)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 21
D3A1 Val x 20
D4Y1 Judy x 56

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 1 damaged
D4Y1 Judy: 1 damaged

Allied ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 5th USN Special Construction Battalion, at 74,116 (Moa)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 23
A6M3a Zero x 36
A6M5 Zero x 26
B5N2 Kate x 24
B6N1 Jill x 81
D4Y1 Judy x 107

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N1 Jill: 3 damaged
D4Y1 Judy: 1 damaged

Allied ground losses:
102 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Moa at 74,116

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 4 NM, estimated altitude 2,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 1 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 20

Allied aircraft
Beaufort V x 3
F4F-4 Wildcat x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort V: 1 damaged
F4F-4 Wildcat: 9 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CL Natori

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Moa at 74,117

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 11 NM, estimated altitude 3,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25D1 Mitchell x 3

Allied aircraft losses
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CL Teshio, Bomb hits 2, on fire
E Hato

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing and strafing from low level
Naval Attack: 6 x 500 lb SAP Bomb




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Moa (74,116)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 5942 troops, 53 guns, 164 vehicles, Assault Value = 161

Defending force 3009 troops, 13 guns, 14 vehicles, Assault Value = 4

Japanese adjusted assault: 85

Allied adjusted defense: 5

Japanese assault odds: 17 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Moa !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), preparation(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
37 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled

Allied ground losses:
3831 casualties reported
Squads: 30 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 262 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 61 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 15 (15 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 16 (16 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 4


Assaulting units:
3rd Tank Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
31st Engineer Regiment
8th/A Division

Defending units:
1st USMC Parachute Battalion
9th Port Maint Engineer Battalion
343rd Base Group
5th USN Special Construction Battalion


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 75,46 (near Chungking)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 39339 troops, 423 guns, 211 vehicles, Assault Value = 1155

Defending force 3646 troops, 16 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 1526

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 1526 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-)
supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Allied ground losses:
3828 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 378 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 17 (17 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
27th Division
39th Division
35th Division
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
4th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment
13th Army
5th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
71st Chinese Corps


And in CHINA, finally we killed the last corps that was occupying the road from Kweyang to Chungking. Now the perimeter is secured and the Chinese operation is officially over!






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 1966
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/31/2013 12:20:48 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6230
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Banzai!!! This was key. Now he effectively gains nothing for this move and suffered unacceptable losses. He will have to go back to the drawing board and come at you with more next time. End result - Significant Japanese operational victory.



Yes, we lost some 4 CLs and 5 DDs...so not a walk in the park...but we pushed him back and delayed him...and that's was the only thing that matters

BANZAI!

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 1967
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/31/2013 7:22:33 AM   
obvert


Posts: 7053
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Banzai!!! This was key. Now he effectively gains nothing for this move and suffered unacceptable losses. He will have to go back to the drawing board and come at you with more next time. End result - Significant Japanese operational victory.



Yes, we lost some 4 CLs and 5 DDs...so not a walk in the park...but we pushed him back and delayed him...and that's was the only thing that matters

BANZAI!


Nicely played. This again will buy you a lot more time. As you say, now the other reinforcements can move ahead rather than having to send everything down here to eradicate this thorn.

Banzai!!!

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1968
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/31/2013 11:25:43 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6230
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
May 9, 1943

The KB is slowly retiring from the sub threat, back to safety waters, while the enemy, once again, sent his sweep to lure my CAP...this time against Moa, while enemy 4Es pounded the troops at Selroe.
We are slowly regrouping and reforming our air groups. So far my air army has survived the fight for southern DEI and even managed to score some good hits.

In the Solomons, enemy transports are unloading at Thousands Ships Bay. 60 Tojos sweep from Munda, obtaining a 1:1 ratio against Corsairs and P-40s on LRCAP from Karaikira. Then 20 Nells took off, escorted by some 25 zeros and placed 2 torps on two different APAs... not bad.

Enemy BBs and CVs are lingering behind Ndeni, while more Netties and Kates are moved back to Rabaul and Bouganville.

Everything seems still in CENTPAC, with Brad not seeming to do anything important around Tabiutea. We'll use this precious time in order to build a strong defensive line around Kusiae, Ponape and Kwajalein, with Tarawa and Makin acting as wave-breakers

Some Artillery is being sent from China to the Kuriles, while at Sebang we're unloading 2 tank regiments that will give support to the garrison present there (already 1 reinforced division strong).

Ponape now finally has its Air HQ and, being a level 4 AF, can easily guest some decent offensive air power.

130k supplies are moving to Southern DEI, 160k to Singapore and Burma, while 50k supplies and 50k fuel are redirected to Truk in order to feed Rabaul and CENTPAC.

So far, so good

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1969
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/1/2013 1:36:51 PM   
NCSUforest


Posts: 721
Joined: 3/8/2007
From: Blacksburg, Va
Status: offline
The other plus I see in the Moa operation is that you wiped out one of his parachute bns which will slow down his movement. It will take time to buy out and rebuild and ship back across the Pacific.

_____________________________




(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1970
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/1/2013 2:04:44 PM   
veji1

 

Posts: 960
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline
Such a shame for the CLs and DDs, otherwise well played overall sir.

_____________________________

Adieu Ô Dieu odieux... signé Adam

(in reply to NCSUforest)
Post #: 1971
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/1/2013 6:44:20 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 7170
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
Yes, it was a good operational victory that you needed to win. But as an Allied player I would not be too concerned. QBall got off a bit lucky again as your carrier trap did not give you the best results. His losses in ground units was heavy but not anything that he can't easily replace. I think if I were him I would not be unhappy with the results. In scen 2, the Allies have to be patient and be satisfied with sinking enemy ships-which he has been doing.

The fact that he holds Darwin at this stage is going to be a thorn in your side as he is always posed to push into the DEI. Something you just can't afford to have him do in 1943.

But very good play on your half. I don't see where you could have done a better job. A little more luck and he would have had a minor disaster.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to veji1)
Post #: 1972
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/2/2013 10:12:25 AM   
inqistor


Posts: 1332
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Night Naval bombardment of Moa at 74,116

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna
BB Kongo
CA Kumano
CA Takao
CA Chikuma
CA Tone
DD Kiku
DD Tsuga
DD Kuri
DD Hokaze
DD Yakaze
DD Shiokaze
DD Akikaze
DD Hatakaze
DD Hatsushima
DD Nenohi
DD Hatsuharu
DD Yamakaze
DD Murasame

According to manual, maximum size of combat TF should be 15. With this amount of ships, it could be ugly, if they tried to clash with something bigger (lots of collisions, for start).
Also, I am not sure, you should mix Japanese CAs, and BBs. They work different way (Big Guns vs Speed&Torpedoes), so one type is at disadvantage in such situations.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1973
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/2/2013 1:58:47 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 14782
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Night Naval bombardment of Moa at 74,116

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna
BB Kongo
CA Kumano
CA Takao
CA Chikuma
CA Tone
DD Kiku
DD Tsuga
DD Kuri
DD Hokaze
DD Yakaze
DD Shiokaze
DD Akikaze
DD Hatakaze
DD Hatsushima
DD Nenohi
DD Hatsuharu
DD Yamakaze
DD Murasame

According to manual, maximum size of combat TF should be 15. With this amount of ships, it could be ugly, if they tried to clash with something bigger (lots of collisions, for start).
Also, I am not sure, you should mix Japanese CAs, and BBs. They work different way (Big Guns vs Speed&Torpedoes), so one type is at disadvantage in such situations.

No, as I recall the maximum size of combat TF is 25 ships. 15 ships is the maximum where all can contribute AA to defense against air attack. After that AA is less efficient in that some ships can't fire or fire less or something.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/site/staffmonkeys/

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 1974
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/2/2013 2:02:05 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 7128
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: online
I would have broken the Bombardment TF into two TFs with the BBs in one and the CAs in another. 8 DDs should be enough in a surface or bombardment TF.

_____________________________


(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 1975
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/2/2013 2:55:23 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 2544
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Night Naval bombardment of Moa at 74,116

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna
BB Kongo
CA Kumano
CA Takao
CA Chikuma
CA Tone
DD Kiku
DD Tsuga
DD Kuri
DD Hokaze
DD Yakaze
DD Shiokaze
DD Akikaze
DD Hatakaze
DD Hatsushima
DD Nenohi
DD Hatsuharu
DD Yamakaze
DD Murasame

According to manual, maximum size of combat TF should be 15. With this amount of ships, it could be ugly, if they tried to clash with something bigger (lots of collisions, for start).
Also, I am not sure, you should mix Japanese CAs, and BBs. They work different way (Big Guns vs Speed&Torpedoes), so one type is at disadvantage in such situations.

No, as I recall the maximum size of combat TF is 25 ships. 15 ships is the maximum where all can contribute AA to defense against air attack. After that AA is less efficient in that some ships can't fire or fire less or something.

From section 6.2 in the manual:

Most TFs may contain a maximum of 25 ships (although 15 or less is most efficient for a
combat TF)
except for Escort and Transport TFs, which have a maximum of 100 ships. ASW and
some other TFs are restricted to less than 25 ships.


Many experienced users have posted that there do seem to be more collisions and less efficiency in the TF even before you have over 15 ships. I have found that SCTFs with over 10 ships usually do not all engage during a combat. Some of the TF will almost always be out of position to fight. The manual hints at the size limitations and player experience expands a bit on where the game engine starts to apply penalties.

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 1976
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/2/2013 3:04:03 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 14782
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
IIRC I rarely have SCTF as large as 15 ships, most often less than 10 ships, and quite often 5 ships or less.

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(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1977
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/2/2013 3:06:20 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 1014
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline
Well played

Next time he comes though, I suspect he'll bring everything

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 1978
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/2/2013 6:39:02 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7053
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Night Naval bombardment of Moa at 74,116

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna
BB Kongo
CA Kumano
CA Takao
CA Chikuma
CA Tone
DD Kiku
DD Tsuga
DD Kuri
DD Hokaze
DD Yakaze
DD Shiokaze
DD Akikaze
DD Hatakaze
DD Hatsushima
DD Nenohi
DD Hatsuharu
DD Yamakaze
DD Murasame

According to manual, maximum size of combat TF should be 15. With this amount of ships, it could be ugly, if they tried to clash with something bigger (lots of collisions, for start).
Also, I am not sure, you should mix Japanese CAs, and BBs. They work different way (Big Guns vs Speed&Torpedoes), so one type is at disadvantage in such situations.

No, as I recall the maximum size of combat TF is 25 ships. 15 ships is the maximum where all can contribute AA to defense against air attack. After that AA is less efficient in that some ships can't fire or fire less or something.

From section 6.2 in the manual:

Most TFs may contain a maximum of 25 ships (although 15 or less is most efficient for a
combat TF)
except for Escort and Transport TFs, which have a maximum of 100 ships. ASW and
some other TFs are restricted to less than 25 ships.


Many experienced users have posted that there do seem to be more collisions and less efficiency in the TF even before you have over 15 ships. I have found that SCTFs with over 10 ships usually do not all engage during a combat. Some of the TF will almost always be out of position to fight. The manual hints at the size limitations and player experience expands a bit on where the game engine starts to apply penalties.


One interesting thing I've been encountering lately is that Japanese DDs are less capable as the game goes on (losing 1/3 of their 12.7cm guns), and Allied ones much more capable. As a result larger TFs may be necessary from mid-43 onward, regardless of penalties. I've recently tried 3BB 7DD and got creamed by two TFs of 7-8 Fletchers each. I came back with only 2 DDs left and a BB needing yard time. Other examples were similar.

It all depends on what you're going to run into. Mixing CAs and BBs should make each other less efficient at their main strengths, but by mid-43 the CAs aren't going to hit much with long lances unless facing old BBs. Everything else the Allies have is too nimble. So I'm thinking this mix allows a lot of flexibility and more medium sized firepower, which is what is really needed against the modern US CLs and DDs. It would work best with the 30 knot BBs obviously.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1979
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/6/2013 11:47:17 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6230
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
Sorry guys, been a huge week of costant non-stop working... we resumed the game tonight... 17th May 1943...
We tried to ambush the APAs that were unloading at Thursday Island. 5 CVs went perfectly in place...7 hexes far... 100 planes had to sweep, followed by 120 LBA bombers and the power of 5 CVs... guess what? The CVs, despite perfect weather, didn't launch and only 20 Nells took off from Munda... we lost some 40 fighters due to his LRCAP of corsairs and sunk only 2 APDs and damaged an APA...already unloaded
Now we will get back in the shades...

Enemy CVs are spotted moving from Townsville to Darwin... here we are again. The KB is regrouping and reloading unseen, while my air groups are filling their ranks

The 56th Inf Division is being moved to Bouganville, along with some artillery.

The P-47s are online!!! 50 of them swept Mandalay today for the first time, exchanging blows with my KI-44as and N1K1s... results were mixed...be bagged 15 of them in the air, plus 11 more due to ops losses, losing 34 planes and 9 pilots... i think i can hold my positions for the moment. Enemy units are advancing towards Katha... we're sending some reinforcements to that part of the theatre. 1 reinforced division, along with some artillery and tanks should be enough (hopefully).


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1980
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