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RE: The time for compromise has now passed

 
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RE: The time for compromise has now passed - 7/11/2012 8:59:06 PM   
JocMeister

 

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I may be remembering this wrong but I think someone wrote in an AAR somewhere that doing a second day strike at PH in DBB is a very, VERY bad idea? If I´m right you might want to consider skipping the nowadays mandatory second (or third) strike that everyone does.

In case you are considering it!

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 151
RE: The time for compromise has now passed - 7/11/2012 9:34:43 PM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

44 BBs, eh?  I knew Japan had some wildly improbable capabilities in Scenario Two, but I hadn't dreamed of something of this magnitude. Are you sure this isn't one of John III's mods?  You know, "Resilient Admiral:  The 17th Circle Nuanced IJN Fleet Upgrades?

P.S.  To my fellow Forumites.  Please help me contain GJ's ego by refraining from posting in this AAR.  This will also help me keep ahead of him.  Thank you.


ahahahah
Clearly a typo.... 4 BBs....

You're still very far ahead my friend...but it's a long looooong way....and remember: the one who's frightened has already lost

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Post #: 152
RE: The time for compromise has now passed - 7/11/2012 9:35:36 PM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I may be remembering this wrong but I think someone wrote in an AAR somewhere that doing a second day strike at PH in DBB is a very, VERY bad idea? If I´m right you might want to consider skipping the nowadays mandatory second (or third) strike that everyone does.

In case you are considering it!



I impose myself a couple of personal HRs: no second day strike at PH and no crazy R&D...

Thanks anyway mate

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 153
RE: The time for compromise has now passed - 7/11/2012 11:27:38 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

Arizona sunk for sure, probably 1-2 others too. It's in the combat report above (see post 140).

do the BB's carry float planes? If so you can just check thee aircraft losses to see how many float planes were lost. Kinda of a cheat

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Post #: 154
RE: The time for compromise has now passed - 7/12/2012 12:26:44 AM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

Arizona sunk for sure, probably 1-2 others too. It's in the combat report above (see post 140).

do the BB's carry float planes? If so you can just check thee aircraft losses to see how many float planes were lost. Kinda of a cheat



Destroyed 4 Seagulls...so i bet it's the Arizona's and CL's ones....

Ok, turn sent back to Brad....the 2nd turn was even more difficult and tiresome than the first...God!

Let's hope for the best. i will try to interdict the flow of TFs from Manila, using both DDs, Subs and planes.
Will be very aggressive in my advance. Zeros have already been based at Vigan while a base force will be transported by planes... same at Pantani, where the Kaga's Vals have been grounded.
Yamada Groups have been transfered aboard Kaga that now will move SouthWest towards Singa, screened by a Cruiser force. The Kongos are left at Kota Barhu for the moment, covering the landings.
More Oscars have been moved from Bankok to Singora, while some 50 nates have been put back to Indochina (couldn't have more planes in Singora and Pattani because of our HR).
Moving an Air HQ from indochina to Singawang (as soon as it is conquered).
3 SNLF units are loading for Palemang at Samah.
Converted 4 Aden xAKs to AKEs and several xAKLs into PBs (those with 3 ASW rating).
60k supplies are being loaded at Tokyo, while the 33rd Division is packing for being loaded on transports at Sasebo.

HURRA!

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 155
RE: The time for compromise has now passed - 7/12/2012 2:05:34 AM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

Destroyed 4 Seagulls...so i bet it's the Arizona's and CL's ones....

Check back in a couple of turns. Ships that are on fire can't dock for repairs so sometimes they burn long enough for the system damage to kill them

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Post #: 156
RE: The time for compromise has now passed - 7/12/2012 3:36:15 AM   
Dan Nichols


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Just to let GJ know, BBs carry Kingfishers, CAs/CLs carry Seagulls.

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Post #: 157
RE: The time for compromise has now passed - 7/12/2012 6:49:45 AM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

Just to let GJ know, BBs carry Kingfishers, CAs/CLs carry Seagulls.


mmm...you're right Dan! So probably not even the Arizona went under....possibly 2 Cruisers....which isn't that good....but i think the PH run wasn't that bad. All those damaged BBs will take years to refit...and that's a good enough result for the moment.

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Post #: 158
RE: The time for compromise has now passed - 7/12/2012 7:01:14 AM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

Destroyed 4 Seagulls...so i bet it's the Arizona's and CL's ones....

Check back in a couple of turns. Ships that are on fire can't dock for repairs so sometimes they burn long enough for the system damage to kill them



Yes, absolutely, i'll keep an eye on the ships sunk list


BTW, it's time to start to decide what to really do with my R&D.
The realistc R&D, if i understood correctly, means i have to be much more carefull with my planning and action.
I still like the idea of concentrating on just few mid-term japanese planes and leave the rest out of the research program.
Having very few mass-production factories that can actually produce planes, i like the idea of let some R&D factories convert to production once they reach their R&D objective.... so to say, for example, the factories that are R&Ding the Tojo could be let transformed into mass producing Tojos instead of changing them to another R&D a/c. Same could be said for the Helens.
Do you think it's a good idea?

My will know would be to change all the R&D factories that are researching planes i don't like (the Tony, the KI-100, the Lorna, the Jack, etc etc) to planes that i want (N1K1, KI-84, KI-83, KI-44, Jill, etc)....

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 159
RE: The time for compromise has now passed - 7/12/2012 11:50:29 AM   
ny59giants


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Tojo IIa

You have the one R&D @ Maebashi and Nick Ib @ Kobe. Convert the Nick Ib to Tojo IIa and expand both factories to size 30. Have the settings next to them say No-Yes-No.

These three factories - Pete @ Nagasaki; Nate @ Harbin; and Thalia @ Gifu will be converted to Tojo IIa production when able. Expand each to size 60.

The two Tojo R&D will be used to get the IIc models in earlier (skip the 'b' model). However, you have to go through the 'b' model for your R&D efforts to keep the factories repaired, so I would click over to the 'b' model for a day and then to the 'c' model afterwards so they don't disable some of the factories. All of this is months away.

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Post #: 160
RE: The time for compromise has now passed - 7/12/2012 12:16:32 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Tojos are evil!

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Post #: 161
RE: The time for compromise has now passed - 7/12/2012 1:45:09 PM   
kjnoel

 

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A slight counter-perspective:

It is too easy as the Japanese to streamline R&D and PRD and you can get ridiculous advances. In my last game as Allies I was facing 1945 aircraft in late 1943 (admittedly this was the zero chain) and it doesn't need the old bug people keep referring to. Having multiple size 30 factories and 500 engines in the pool does wonders.

In my current game as Japan (mid-42 scenario 2) I have taken the view that streamlining should actually be avoided. I have the HR to not advance anything more than 6 months but I have also added the following:
I will never have just one model in production, e.g. I will always have Helens alongside Sallys and Tojos alongside Oscars. Tojo + Helen (for instance) = too easy co-ordination and tough to beat in 42/43.
I will always put every model in the chain into production; so, for instance, I will be allowing one of my Tojo IIa factories to product the IIb version even though it is awful.... Why? Because you need that feedback from the pilots to know that it is awful and lead that impetus to product the IIc version.

Just an alternate view that it is a little bit too easy to make things wonderful for the Japanese.... admittedly this is a scenario 2 perspective.


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Post #: 162
RE: The time for compromise has now passed - 7/12/2012 2:59:27 PM   
seille

 

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The jap player need all the help he can get. His life is hard enough already.

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Post #: 163
RE: Let's start! - 7/12/2012 3:45:58 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

No BB's sunk at PH? If I were you I would jump up and exclaim , "I can't believe these ******* die rolls! You are SO lucky!"...and then scatter the board and the 7,600 counters all over the basement.



Why would he bother to do something that his cat can do for him...as mine has.

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Post #: 164
RE: Let's start! - 7/12/2012 4:15:02 PM   
ny59giants


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George is a great 4e bomber killer.

Mr Tojo is great beacuse the SR of 1 means they get and stay on CAP through numerous passes.

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Post #: 165
RE: Let's start! - 7/12/2012 5:40:51 PM   
GreyJoy


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thanks guys. You know how much i appreciate your comments.
Thanks to Micheal: that info about how to handle Tojo production is priceless!!!!

Kjnoel: i get your point mate. I am one of those unlucky bas***ds who had to face Shidens, KI-83, KI-84r, KI-201s and all that sort of late war stuff in early 44....so i feel your pain.
At the same time i think the auto-imposed rule of "max 6 months in advance" is enough to prevent any game unbalancing.
The rationalization of japanese production is something which is implied (sp!?) in the game mechanics.... they give Japan the chance to tweak its industry for one reason, imho...and that's because the allied steamroller, in 1944, can easily overcome Japanese industry products if they are not well thought and planned.

That's just my pov, obviously

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Post #: 166
RE: Let's start! - 7/12/2012 5:59:10 PM   
jeffk3510


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Need some screenies!!

Tojos service ratings are a must! 1 is great for Japan.

GJ you faced them with Corsairs/Hellcats/Mustangs etc... it wasn't like you were using Buffaloes

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Post #: 167
RE: Let's start! - 7/12/2012 6:14:51 PM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

Need some screenies!!

Tojos service ratings are a must! 1 is great for Japan.

GJ you faced them with Corsairs/Hellcats/Mustangs etc... it wasn't like you were using Buffaloes


Well, the only two fighters the allied have that can fight at equal terms against hordes of KI-83, Shindens and KI-84r are the Thunderbolts (in sweep) and the Spit VIII (in CAP)....the rest is dead meat imho.... but the only advantage the P-47 has over jap late war fighters is the performance at high alt...but to do so you must fly above the stratosphere... and i lost thousands of fighters nonetheless sweeping japanese HI.... wasn't a piece of cake

The real problem was when i had to face 2000 Tojos during the battle for Karachi....if it wasn't for those Spits i would have lost india for good!

Screens will arrive as soon as things warm up a bit...These first turns are really slow

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Post #: 168
RE: Let's start! - 7/12/2012 9:55:06 PM   
GreyJoy


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Ok, that's what i've elaborated for my R&D (in brackets the arrival date i'd like them to arrive):

Fighters:

IJNAF

A6M2-N -> A6M5 (42/10)
A6M3 (42/04) -> A6M3a (42/09) -> A6M5 (42/10)
N1K1-J (43/1)

IJAAF

Ki-43 IIa (42/6) -> KI-43 IIb (42/11) -> KI-43 IIc (44/1)
Ki-44 IIa (42/4) -> KI-44 IIb (43/1) -> KI-44 IIc (43/9)
KI-84a (7/43)



Fighterbombers:

IJAAF

KI-45a (42/4)
KI-102b (44/5)


Nightfighters:

J1N1-S (43/4)
KI-46 III Dinah ( 44/4)



Level bombers:

KI-49 Ia (42/2) -> KI-49 IIa Will keep the KI-49 Ia in production for quite some time even when the KI-49 II will become available. These guys will be used for ASW
KI-67 T (43/11)

G3M3 (42/3) - will be kept in production untill 1944
G4M1
P1Y1



Dive and Torp bombers:

D4Y1 (42/7)
B7A2 (44/2)
B6N1 (42/9)



For my (limited) experience, these are the only planes that really make any difference and, imho, these are the only ones that need to be reasearched hard (always inside the limits of my HR). So to say, i'll only R&D second generation planes, keeping the arrival dates of most generation planes when they arrive.

Also i'm thinking of transforming some of these R&D factories, once they reach the desired plane, into mass production factories.

My idea is that, after a certain time-line, R&D isn't anymore usefull....

hope it makes sense...

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 169
RE: Let's start! - 7/12/2012 10:06:15 PM   
jeffk3510


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

Need some screenies!!

Tojos service ratings are a must! 1 is great for Japan.

GJ you faced them with Corsairs/Hellcats/Mustangs etc... it wasn't like you were using Buffaloes


Well, the only two fighters the allied have that can fight at equal terms against hordes of KI-83, Shindens and KI-84r are the Thunderbolts (in sweep) and the Spit VIII (in CAP)....the rest is dead meat imho.... but the only advantage the P-47 has over jap late war fighters is the performance at high alt...but to do so you must fly above the stratosphere... and i lost thousands of fighters nonetheless sweeping japanese HI.... wasn't a piece of cake

The real problem was when i had to face 2000 Tojos during the battle for Karachi....if it wasn't for those Spits i would have lost india for good!

Screens will arrive as soon as things warm up a bit...These first turns are really slow


Those Spits were angels over India. I remember.

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Post #: 170
RE: Let's start! - 7/12/2012 10:18:35 PM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

Need some screenies!!

Tojos service ratings are a must! 1 is great for Japan.

GJ you faced them with Corsairs/Hellcats/Mustangs etc... it wasn't like you were using Buffaloes


Well, the only two fighters the allied have that can fight at equal terms against hordes of KI-83, Shindens and KI-84r are the Thunderbolts (in sweep) and the Spit VIII (in CAP)....the rest is dead meat imho.... but the only advantage the P-47 has over jap late war fighters is the performance at high alt...but to do so you must fly above the stratosphere... and i lost thousands of fighters nonetheless sweeping japanese HI.... wasn't a piece of cake

The real problem was when i had to face 2000 Tojos during the battle for Karachi....if it wasn't for those Spits i would have lost india for good!

Screens will arrive as soon as things warm up a bit...These first turns are really slow


Those Spits were angels over India. I remember.



yes, days of glory and passion...

(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 171
RE: Let's start! - 7/12/2012 11:02:18 PM   
jeffk3510


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I always remember a young and innocent warrior starting his first AAR always in good spirits way back yonder... sure was fun reading from day one. Glad youre back at it, even if you're on the wrong side. But that is ok.. Japs look fun for the first 6 months of the war... just blast the crap out of whatever they want.

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Post #: 172
RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 6:43:36 AM   
GreyJoy


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I double checked.... reading the a/c destroyed screen, it seems that i only sunk CL Helena at PH....only 4 seagulls and not a single Kingfisher.... gotta say that i have hoped in something better...

Q-Ball is still on vacation....so turn should arrive by sunday... Then, hopefully, turns will be starting to flow with a good pace

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Post #: 173
RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 7:36:09 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Cheer up GJ!

BB Arizona, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk. I doubt that is FOW!

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Post #: 174
RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 6:47:51 PM   
GreyJoy


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mmmm....bad luck.
Brad confirmed that none of his BBs are sunk and most of them haven't enough damage to call them at risk of sinking...

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 08, 41

The war hasn't started under a good star....
We took Miri without any problem...just to find that the allies engineers have managed to damage 150 oil and 150 refineries.... A bad start!
His subs are already giving me headhaces... 1 AV sunk near Miri and several attacks against my shippings near Luzon...how did Rader manage to counter every single of my sub attack!?
His fleets are fleeing without much opposition. I have placed several subs near Manila and mined Bataan, positioning 2 flottillas of DDs right in front of Manila... all the ships managed to get out safely!
Same for HK....my DDs didn't find anyone and his ships are moving freely.... My Betties from Takao managed to score some hits but i had hoped to catch them mostly with my DDs.... it didn't happen.

Force Z is nowhere to be seen. Same for Boise and Houston.

We conquered San Fernando, Aparri in Luzon and Kota Bahru in Malaya,....but he's fleeing everywhere and reinforcing Mersin.... my ships are two days far from Mersing and the Aus units are already in place.... think i'll have to change my plans...

Adak and amichitka are invaded and will fall tomorrow...

Overall not a fantastic opening.... but at least no major disasters have happened (well, 1 CA badly damaged and 1 AV sunk by ducth subs....)

Brad will be a very tough opponent...



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Tandjoengpinang  at 51,85

Japanese Ships
     SS I-154

Allied Ships
     CM Kung Wo, Torpedo hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage *one of the little successes of the day*


 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Miri  at 63,82

Japanese Ships
     AV Sagara Maru, Torpedo hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage *sinks*

Allied Ships
     SS O20

 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at San Fernando (80,74)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 19875 troops, 166 guns, 66 vehicles, Assault Value = 663

Defending force 3654 troops, 57 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 99

Japanese adjusted assault: 343

Allied adjusted defense: 9

Japanese assault odds: 38 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE San Fernando !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
     109 casualties reported
        Squads: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
        Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
        Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Allied ground losses:
     2308 casualties reported
        Squads: 59 destroyed, 27 disabled
        Non Combat: 58 destroyed, 0 disabled
        Engineers: 10 destroyed, 0 disabled
     Guns lost 24 (24 destroyed, 0 disabled)
     Units retreated 1


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
   47th Infantry Regiment
   2nd Formosa Inf. Regiment
   65th Brigade
   3rd Ind Engineer Regiment
   1st Formosa Inf. Regiment
   21st Ind Engineer Regiment
   8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
   3rd Construction Battalion
   2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
   9th Field Construction Battalion
   9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
   56th Const Co
   28th JAAF AF Bn
   15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
   40th JAAF AF Bn

Defending units:
   11th PA Infantry Division


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Kota Bharu (51,75)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 14269 troops, 120 guns, 6 vehicles, Assault Value = 516

Defending force 4051 troops, 39 guns, 1 vehicles, Assault Value = 117

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 270

Allied adjusted defense: 13

Japanese assault odds: 20 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Kota Bharu !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(+), leaders(-), disruption(-), preparation(-)
fatigue(-), morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
     190 casualties reported
        Squads: 0 destroyed, 26 disabled
        Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
        Engineers: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
     Units pursuing 2


Allied ground losses:
     1848 casualties reported
        Squads: 61 destroyed, 4 disabled
        Non Combat: 73 destroyed, 0 disabled
        Engineers: 10 destroyed, 0 disabled
     Guns lost 31 (31 destroyed, 0 disabled)
     Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)
     Units retreated 3


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
   55th Infantry Regiment
   22nd Recon Regiment
   12th Engineer Regiment
   56th Infantry Regiment
   23rd Ind Engineer Regiment
   114th Infantry Regiment
   II./143rd Infantry Battalion
   32nd Field AA Battalion
   202nd Ship Eng Coy
   18th Mountain Gun Regiment
   5th JAAF AF Coy

Defending units:
   FMSV Brigade
   8th Indian Brigade
   3rd ISF Base Force


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Miri (64,87)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 1213 troops, 7 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 41

Defending force 255 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1 *how could 255 men do so much damage!?!?!!?!?*
 
Japanese adjusted assault: 10

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 10 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Miri !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
     19 casualties reported
        Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
        Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
        Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Allied ground losses:
     126 casualties reported
        Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
        Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 8 disabled
        Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
     Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)
     Units retreated 1


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
   I/124th Infantry Battalion

Defending units:
   100th RN Base Force







Attachment (1)

< Message edited by GreyJoy -- 7/13/2012 6:56:43 PM >

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 175
RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 6:52:20 PM   
Encircled


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I thought the Miri oil and refinery start damaged?

Bad luck with the PH strike btw

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Post #: 176
RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 6:58:30 PM   
ItsAMadhouse


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From: Wichita KS
Status: offline
Hi,

Yes, Miri does start damaged. Both Oil and Refineries start at 150 (150).

Joe

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Post #: 177
RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 6:59:40 PM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

I thought the Miri oil and refinery start damaged?

Bad luck with the PH strike btw


Really?? Oh, that's a relief

Yup, but i think it's enough to have those BBs out of the war for some months....

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 178
RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 7:00:48 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6101
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
I think i'll go for Mersing no matter what.... if he place there enough troops i could trap them when my 25th army comes down from the north...

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 179
RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 7:02:01 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6101
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
However....no opposition in the air today....i bet he's massing his best fighters (AVG?) at singa for countering the retarded Mersing gambit... should i risk?

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 180
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