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RE: The China Syndrome

 
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RE: The China Syndrome - 11/26/2012 9:46:12 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6217
Joined: 3/18/2011
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About the R&D:

I need some advices here guys.

The Jack. I like to have this model and to use it, backed up with George, in order to use it's superior climb rate (and also to give some variety to my online models).
The first version of the Jack, however, arrives in May/43 and it has a service rating of 3, just like the first George. I was thinking of skipping immediately the first model, in favour of the second one that comes in mid 44...so to concentrate for having it by late 43, while the second model of the George will arrive somewhere in early 44, thus having a service 2 Navy fighters a bit before the arrival of the second variant of the George.
But the second Jack is even slower than the second George and with less mvr and a little less powerfull weapon package... What should i do? Live with the first Jack and simply don't care about the second version, waiting for the second George, or concentrate in having ASAP a service rating-2 Navy fighter? (consider that i have only 3 factories researching the Jack line, so it's all or nothing)

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1351
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/26/2012 10:17:50 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6217
Joined: 3/18/2011
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In Burma we're holding tight. The enemy is strong, but our positions are holding. We're trying to use at best the interior lines system in order to keep on moving forces where new threats become revealed...so far it has worked well




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1352
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/26/2012 11:09:48 AM   
obvert


Posts: 7011
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

About the R&D:

I need some advices here guys.

The Jack. I like to have this model and to use it, backed up with George, in order to use it's superior climb rate (and also to give some variety to my online models).
The first version of the Jack, however, arrives in May/43 and it has a service rating of 3, just like the first George. I was thinking of skipping immediately the first model, in favour of the second one that comes in mid 44...so to concentrate for having it by late 43, while the second model of the George will arrive somewhere in early 44, thus having a service 2 Navy fighters a bit before the arrival of the second variant of the George.
But the second Jack is even slower than the second George and with less mvr and a little less powerfull weapon package... What should i do? Live with the first Jack and simply don't care about the second version, waiting for the second George, or concentrate in having ASAP a service rating-2 Navy fighter? (consider that i have only 3 factories researching the Jack line, so it's all or nothing)


I've found the J2M2 mediocre and hard to keep in the field due to the service level 3. If you're using it to back up other models and defend 4E strikes in large well supported bases it's much better. It's definitely an interceptor, not good for sweeps or escort.

My feeling would be that if you can get the service 2 J2M3 earlier than the service 2 second version of the George, then it would be really useful at that point. I had not planned to use this version but pressed it into service due to perceived need for a second generation fighter.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1353
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/26/2012 11:17:44 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6217
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

About the R&D:

I need some advices here guys.

The Jack. I like to have this model and to use it, backed up with George, in order to use it's superior climb rate (and also to give some variety to my online models).
The first version of the Jack, however, arrives in May/43 and it has a service rating of 3, just like the first George. I was thinking of skipping immediately the first model, in favour of the second one that comes in mid 44...so to concentrate for having it by late 43, while the second model of the George will arrive somewhere in early 44, thus having a service 2 Navy fighters a bit before the arrival of the second variant of the George.
But the second Jack is even slower than the second George and with less mvr and a little less powerfull weapon package... What should i do? Live with the first Jack and simply don't care about the second version, waiting for the second George, or concentrate in having ASAP a service rating-2 Navy fighter? (consider that i have only 3 factories researching the Jack line, so it's all or nothing)


I've found the J2M2 mediocre and hard to keep in the field due to the service level 3. If you're using it to back up other models and defend 4E strikes in large well supported bases it's much better. It's definitely an interceptor, not good for sweeps or escort.

My feeling would be that if you can get the service 2 J2M3 earlier than the service 2 second version of the George, then it would be really useful at that point. I had not planned to use this version but pressed it into service due to perceived need for a second generation fighter.


Got it Erik, thanks!
Yup, i think i should be able to get the George around March 43, so i'll switch directly to the J2M3 so to have a secondo gen fighter with a decent serviceablity by late 43.
The front lines will be held, as always, by Tojos and Zeros. Even if outdated these guys will be able to remain in the air even after several days of fightings. Georges and Nicks will form, for 1943, the deep defences in Major Bases with high aviation support and with smaller threat from enemy sweeps. The lack of AS will force me to use the first version of the George mainly on the defensive, but i surely hope to have the second version online by the end of 1943/early 1944. With 4 factories devoting to R&D plus the Engine bonus... i should get there in time

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1354
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/26/2012 12:36:19 PM   
koniu

 

Posts: 2196
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

About the R&D:

I need some advices here guys.

The Jack. I like to have this model and to use it, backed up with George, in order to use it's superior climb rate (and also to give some variety to my online models).
The first version of the Jack, however, arrives in May/43 and it has a service rating of 3, just like the first George. I was thinking of skipping immediately the first model, in favour of the second one that comes in mid 44...so to concentrate for having it by late 43, while the second model of the George will arrive somewhere in early 44, thus having a service 2 Navy fighters a bit before the arrival of the second variant of the George.
But the second Jack is even slower than the second George and with less mvr and a little less powerfull weapon package... What should i do? Live with the first Jack and simply don't care about the second version, waiting for the second George, or concentrate in having ASAP a service rating-2 Navy fighter? (consider that i have only 3 factories researching the Jack line, so it's all or nothing)


I've found the J2M2 mediocre and hard to keep in the field due to the service level 3. If you're using it to back up other models and defend 4E strikes in large well supported bases it's much better. It's definitely an interceptor, not good for sweeps or escort.

My feeling would be that if you can get the service 2 J2M3 earlier than the service 2 second version of the George, then it would be really useful at that point. I had not planned to use this version but pressed it into service due to perceived need for a second generation fighter.


Got it Erik, thanks!
Yup, i think i should be able to get the George around March 43, so i'll switch directly to the J2M3 so to have a secondo gen fighter with a decent serviceablity by late 43.
The front lines will be held, as always, by Tojos and Zeros. Even if outdated these guys will be able to remain in the air even after several days of fightings. Georges and Nicks will form, for 1943, the deep defences in Major Bases with high aviation support and with smaller threat from enemy sweeps. The lack of AS will force me to use the first version of the George mainly on the defensive, but i surely hope to have the second version online by the end of 1943/early 1944. With 4 factories devoting to R&D plus the Engine bonus... i should get there in time

For me biggest hopes are with second model of Jack and George. SR2 will make them good interceptors.
Biggest advantage of Jacks over Geeorge are two CL cannons. With double accuracy even with smaller firepower from George they deadly to bombers. An with good climb rate they should be much ealier on position than George

Making a sandwich of SR1 Tojo,Zero, and SR2,3 Geroge, Frank and Jack can spoil day for any allied player. Firs two will give You always something in air and last tree will make big holes.

< Message edited by koniu -- 11/26/2012 12:39:21 PM >


_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1355
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/26/2012 2:23:04 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6217
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

About the R&D:

I need some advices here guys.

The Jack. I like to have this model and to use it, backed up with George, in order to use it's superior climb rate (and also to give some variety to my online models).
The first version of the Jack, however, arrives in May/43 and it has a service rating of 3, just like the first George. I was thinking of skipping immediately the first model, in favour of the second one that comes in mid 44...so to concentrate for having it by late 43, while the second model of the George will arrive somewhere in early 44, thus having a service 2 Navy fighters a bit before the arrival of the second variant of the George.
But the second Jack is even slower than the second George and with less mvr and a little less powerfull weapon package... What should i do? Live with the first Jack and simply don't care about the second version, waiting for the second George, or concentrate in having ASAP a service rating-2 Navy fighter? (consider that i have only 3 factories researching the Jack line, so it's all or nothing)


I've found the J2M2 mediocre and hard to keep in the field due to the service level 3. If you're using it to back up other models and defend 4E strikes in large well supported bases it's much better. It's definitely an interceptor, not good for sweeps or escort.

My feeling would be that if you can get the service 2 J2M3 earlier than the service 2 second version of the George, then it would be really useful at that point. I had not planned to use this version but pressed it into service due to perceived need for a second generation fighter.


Got it Erik, thanks!
Yup, i think i should be able to get the George around March 43, so i'll switch directly to the J2M3 so to have a secondo gen fighter with a decent serviceablity by late 43.
The front lines will be held, as always, by Tojos and Zeros. Even if outdated these guys will be able to remain in the air even after several days of fightings. Georges and Nicks will form, for 1943, the deep defences in Major Bases with high aviation support and with smaller threat from enemy sweeps. The lack of AS will force me to use the first version of the George mainly on the defensive, but i surely hope to have the second version online by the end of 1943/early 1944. With 4 factories devoting to R&D plus the Engine bonus... i should get there in time

For me biggest hopes are with second model of Jack and George. SR2 will make them good interceptors.
Biggest advantage of Jacks over Geeorge are two CL cannons. With double accuracy even with smaller firepower from George they deadly to bombers. An with good climb rate they should be much ealier on position than George

Making a sandwich of SR1 Tojo,Zero, and SR2,3 Geroge, Frank and Jack can spoil day for any allied player. Firs two will give You always something in air and last tree will make big holes.


As far as i know, the J2N3 has two different 20mm cannon models both on wings (F), while the first variant has only 2 7.7 MGs in the centerline (CF). Both variants of the George has the same 20mm cannons on the wings, just a little bit better than the J2N3, so what really changes is the climb rate and the available date.
But don't expect too much from them. I've faced them both during my game against Rader and i can tell you that none of them is a match for the P-47s. Against bombers i think the differences are so small that it really doesn't matter at all.
So, the guideline should be "the sooner, the better", that's why i'll stay with the N1K1 for the moment, while R&D the J2N3 and the N1K2 (also to use the Ha-32 engines a bit more and not overstress the Ha-45 production too much)

(in reply to koniu)
Post #: 1356
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/26/2012 8:47:58 PM   
inqistor


Posts: 1332
Joined: 5/12/2010
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No, seriously. Gather your fleet, and land 3-4 Divisions at Calcutta. You will hardly get any progress defending, as you need to destroy enemy squads, and this is hard, when they are attacking. IT IS ONLY 1942!

Service Rating is not that important, when you are flying CAP. With good results (lots of shot down bombers) it will be like 2-3 battles, and he will cease operations.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1357
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/26/2012 9:44:49 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7011
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

No, seriously. Gather your fleet, and land 3-4 Divisions at Calcutta. You will hardly get any progress defending, as you need to destroy enemy squads, and this is hard, when they are attacking. IT IS ONLY 1942!

Service Rating is not that important, when you are flying CAP. With good results (lots of shot down bombers) it will be like 2-3 battles, and he will cease operations.


Service rating is important when the Allies use 150-200 4E to hit some base. Even if you're flying LR CAP you'll have 10-15 planes unflyable the next turn and have to basically disband them as he'll just maul the place the next turn. Flying several groups of them from big fields with lots of support is the only way to make use of service 3 fighters for Japan, especially in the mod GJ is playing with reduced support and supply.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 1358
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/26/2012 9:56:11 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6217
Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

No, seriously. Gather your fleet, and land 3-4 Divisions at Calcutta. You will hardly get any progress defending, as you need to destroy enemy squads, and this is hard, when they are attacking. IT IS ONLY 1942!

Service Rating is not that important, when you are flying CAP. With good results (lots of shot down bombers) it will be like 2-3 battles, and he will cease operations.



Sorry mate, but i know i don't have the skills,nor the cojones, for such a move.
I'll have to gather 4divisions, thus weakening some key places and then risk all the combined fleet foe a move that won't lead me to anything else than losing, sooner or later, the landed army.
Imho, it's now time to dig in deep and to wait for him to expose himself and possibly attritt him and look for the " decisive battle".

I also agree with obvert. In this mod only major bases ( lvl 8 or 9) can have enough aviation support to be able to keep the serv rat 3 planes in fighting conditions, thus the necessity to keep a deep look at the service ratings of my planes

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 1359
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/26/2012 10:15:53 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6217
Joined: 3/18/2011
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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Nov 27, 42

A strange day.

The enemy landed at Merauke with a tiny force. The base is defended by even a tiner force of mine, so i expected an easy conquest by the yanks... While, incredibly, the enemy got so distrupted during the landing that the enemy expeditionary corp was immediately re-imbarked and at the end of the day, not a single enemy was present in the hex...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Merauke (89,124)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

5 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
CL Adelaide
APD Hatfield

CL Adelaide firing at 4th Engineer Co


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Merauke (89,124)

TF 73 troops unloading over beach at Merauke, 89,124

Allied ground losses:
91 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 20 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


And that's all....


We have finally repaired the strip at Neikiang in China and tomorrow the airbase should start arriving there, airlifted from Kweyiang.

In Burma i decided what to do. We need to hold at Wazrup at Akyab for 3 months with the units we have there now. Hopefully, by march 1943 we'll be able to transfer a couple of divisions there, in order to rotate and give some rest to the 6th Guards Div and to the 6th RTA divisions (the most worn out divisions i have in the theatre). Also, as soon as China stabilizes, i'm planning to transfer some more artillery and support troops in Burma.


It's also confirmed that the allies are building Normanton (Gulf of Carpentaria) - already port lvl 3 - and now want to invade Mareuake. it will be a matter of days before Darwin will be invested, so it's clear that southern DEI is one of their targets....1943 will be a tough year for the Empire, that's for sure.


(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1360
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/26/2012 11:04:21 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 2543
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online
That's one way to maintain operational security - don't plan for a target, and do your recon when you land!

BTW GJ, you are losing your touch - you spelled "Carpentaria" correctly!

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

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Post #: 1361
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/27/2012 8:50:10 PM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 4239
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
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quote:

While, incredibly, the enemy got so distrupted during the landing that the enemy expeditionary corp was immediately re-imbarked


They must have forgotten to bring the beer, and had to go back to get it!


_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 1362
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 5:01:14 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 7159
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

No, seriously. Gather your fleet, and land 3-4 Divisions at Calcutta. You will hardly get any progress defending, as you need to destroy enemy squads, and this is hard, when they are attacking. IT IS ONLY 1942!

Service Rating is not that important, when you are flying CAP. With good results (lots of shot down bombers) it will be like 2-3 battles, and he will cease operations.


Service rating is important when the Allies use 150-200 4E to hit some base. Even if you're flying LR CAP you'll have 10-15 planes unflyable the next turn and have to basically disband them as he'll just maul the place the next turn. Flying several groups of them from big fields with lots of support is the only way to make use of service 3 fighters for Japan, especially in the mod GJ is playing with reduced support and supply.


High service rated planes are OK for an attacker with superior numbers but not good for a defender. They should only be based where there is a rail line if at all possible. I love to go after them as an Allied player. The Jack seems to be best against bombers without escort. Otherwise as a Allied player, I have not been impressed with them. I would not build too many.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1363
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 7:06:51 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6217
Joined: 3/18/2011
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Nov 28-Dic 1 1942

Busy days for both of us. Game's pace being slower than usual.

3 not-so-good days for Japan.

Mereuake fell at the second landing attempts against a Nz bde. We tried to send 27 Helens "experten" in low nav attacks, escorted by 27 zeros from Hollandia.
We achieved nothing but 30 planes lost against his LRCAP from Horn Island and only 2 SAP bombs hit on an old Aus CL (Adelaide). Nothing more. bugger.
Now the Gulf of Carpentaria is really open to allied advance and my only next stop is Tabernafe. Things are getting really critical here...

In China another series of 1-2 both near Kiengo and near Kunming, plus another couple of allied ambushes coming from Paoshan and Tsuyun.... we're losing the grip of the momentum once again in China.

In Burma he started to bomb Akyab with his RN Cruisers, while his fighters and bombers rule the skies of Northern Burma without opposition. Our line still holds...but for how long?

Supplies levels are falling everywhere. The total supplies of the Empire, in the last month of November, went down from 2.6 millions to 2.3 millions...not good

Bad mood this morning...sorry guys for being so negative. Gotta run to the office now

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 1364
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 8:48:49 AM   
obvert


Posts: 7011
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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It sucks not to be able to sweep your own base and clear out the LR CAP. It would be good to use your own LR CAP and the escorted strike, but of course to late now and probably would have been impossible with the distances to Merauke.

If you haven't yet it might be a sneaky move to do some mining of the North OZ dot bases in the next few weeks, probably with subs. He seems to be moving on a quick schedule and he might go right in for those next after securing Merauke.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1365
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 9:02:45 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6217
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
With the loss of the Gulf of Carpentaria and with the whole NW Oz Coast, my defences in the Solomons are really losing any strategical interest. I'm seriously thinking about picking out some of the LCUs present down there and start to move them to reinforce Northern NG. If i was Brad now i'd keep on pushing on this found-out soft belly of the Empire's perimeter.
His landing operations, till now, have all been completely succesfull. His LRCAP has always managed to defend his ships and Japan's air losses are mounting up without any serious achievement. We need to do something....but what? We're moving a strong SAG (3 BBs, 3 CAs, 12 DDs) to Kendari and lots of LCUs and air groups are being transfered from everywhere to the southern DEI...but as long as hi amphib operations go so smoothly and my crack naval attack air units achieve so little, i wonder how can i hope to stop his advance if not risking my surface assets.

It seems like another game when Rader managed to stop every single advance of mine, sinking hundreds of my ships for very few losses... I'm clearly missing something here...and Brad, clearly, isn't Greyjoy.


(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1366
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 9:08:04 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6217
Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

It sucks not to be able to sweep your own base and clear out the LR CAP. It would be good to use your own LR CAP and the escorted strike, but of course to late now and probably would have been impossible with the distances to Merauke.

If you haven't yet it might be a sneaky move to do some mining of the North OZ dot bases in the next few weeks, probably with subs. He seems to be moving on a quick schedule and he might go right in for those next after securing Merauke.



LRCAP at 8 hexes of distance simply doens't work. I would probably have lost even more planes...and i really cannot efford to lose good pilots for these hopeless operations. However the escorting zeros did a decent job, but the 20 Helens who got through, despite the clear weather and their skills (all in Low-Nav 70+) achived only 2 bomb hits out of 40 bombs delivered... something to think about when planning the use of Low-Nav-Skills...i really thought those guys could do a better job.

Yes, i'm mining everywhere i can...but mines doesn't stop invasions...and don't stop his advance. The only thing i can think about is to force him now to attack strongpoints rather then avoiding them.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1367
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 9:24:50 AM   
veji1

 

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I must say you have been making a big mistake in your defense strategy in the DEI : lack of concentration... Sending 30 odd bombers with 30 odd escorts on a landing can't achieve much... What is needed is several waves of 80 bombers with 80 escorts.

Now I understand that this mod makes it very very difficult for the Jap player to get enough AS and it might make it actually too difficult. You might not have much experience with Japan but you are clearly a very competent player with very good instincts, yet you have been behind the curve constantly because of lack of supplies and AS.

in Vanilla AE there might be way too much AS for Japan, but maybe this, just like PDU or unhistorical R&D helps to make a more interesting and fun game... playing a Japan strapped of supplies in 42, and with so little AS that you can't do anything but send small piecemeal strike to the shredder sounds very Solomons 42 like realistic, but not good from a purely game point of view....

Now one last thing : KB.

Sure it has value as a fleet in being, but just hiding it in a mod where the massive weakening of your LBA through lack of AS and supplies means you actually need to use it more might not be the best choice...

in northern OZ and south west NG you have lost very little assets, sure, but maybe risking more to stop him or slowing him down would have been worth it..

Anyway good luck and keep it up, it is a very interesting AAR.

_____________________________

Adieu Ô Dieu odieux... signé Adam

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1368
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 9:53:38 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6217
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

I must say you have been making a big mistake in your defense strategy in the DEI : lack of concentration... Sending 30 odd bombers with 30 odd escorts on a landing can't achieve much... What is needed is several waves of 80 bombers with 80 escorts.

Now I understand that this mod makes it very very difficult for the Jap player to get enough AS and it might make it actually too difficult. You might not have much experience with Japan but you are clearly a very competent player with very good instincts, yet you have been behind the curve constantly because of lack of supplies and AS.

in Vanilla AE there might be way too much AS for Japan, but maybe this, just like PDU or unhistorical R&D helps to make a more interesting and fun game... playing a Japan strapped of supplies in 42, and with so little AS that you can't do anything but send small piecemeal strike to the shredder sounds very Solomons 42 like realistic, but not good from a purely game point of view....

Now one last thing : KB.

Sure it has value as a fleet in being, but just hiding it in a mod where the massive weakening of your LBA through lack of AS and supplies means you actually need to use it more might not be the best choice...

in northern OZ and south west NG you have lost very little assets, sure, but maybe risking more to stop him or slowing him down would have been worth it..

Anyway good luck and keep it up, it is a very interesting AAR.



Concentration... yes, you are right mate. Lack of AS is a problem, lack of overall supplies is another one, for sure. The point isn't that i haven't enough supplies to send a couple of big air missions...it's not that critical. The point is that the supply stockpiles must be used when it really matters. I know that if i waste now my supply reserves to fight already lost battles, i'll be even shorter in mid 1943, when the inner perimeter will be attacked. Same goes for my crews and planes. If i lose now hundreds of planes and good pilots to stop a small invasion of a NZ Bde, supported by a tiny old CL, some APDs and some xAPs...what will i throw to the enemy when the CV/CVEs will support 3 divisions landing at Timor or in Sumatra? Rookies?

Considering almost equal means, Japan in RL has lost the war in the Solomons because it wasted too many resources for a non-critical place like Guadalcanal....and i'm trying to learn from history.
From now on, however, things will have to change. I cannot let him advance any further than Darwin. So, by now, every man, plane or ship will be expandable in order to defend the inner perimeter.

The KB will be kept as a fleet in being untill i don't know where his CVs are...cannot give him the priviledge of knowing where to attack next....

Even if tougher than i thought, this game is being incredibly interesting !

Love it

Thanks!

(in reply to veji1)
Post #: 1369
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 10:04:37 AM   
obvert


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Although the comment by veji1 really gets at the difficulty of this mod, it's also very early to worry about stopping moves like the one to Merauke. It's tough place to defend, with no close areas of LBA to help out, and even a KB raid can be vulnerable to LBA from OZ in that area. Not worth the risk to do more than you did, and you never know, you could get lucky and weather could have helped your planes get in and out more easily. You have to contest in some way to keep him honest and take a tithe for he space lost.

As Japan we'll have days like this. These small jumps are just the jabs at the start of the fight. If you can take the hit and conserve energy, you could still have enough to throw a good right hook when he comes in to something more critical in the later rounds.

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Post #: 1370
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 1:14:18 PM   
BBfanboy


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I find myself wondering if there is a soft spot in the Allies perimeter which can be poked to upset his OODA loop! I know it is dangerous without full knowledge of his CV locations, but it is almost certain that he has them near his major operations in the Arafura Sea. Sending out KB with a CS or two to provide seaplane search ahead, and Glen equipped subs evern further ahead might catch him flat-footed in a place like .... Pearl Harbour!
Surely your A6M5 Zeros can handle the older fighters he has there and hold off the LBA? The big down side of the plan is that it reveals KB, but then he has to frantically pull back ships from the Australia area if he wants to keep Hawaii in operation. The big prize at PH is the dockyard!

Disclaimer- OK, this is an "armchair quarterback" idea from someone with no stake in the outcome other than entertainment, but I hate to see "defence only" from such a brilliant player while he still has a sharp stick to poke with!

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I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

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Post #: 1371
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 1:29:39 PM   
veji1

 

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I do agree with you BBfanboy though that late 42 is too early to be passive.. Sure Greyjoy decided not to expand the perimeter anymore and focus on China, but the KB is a usefull offensive capability whose efficiency and usefulness decreases progressively with time...

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Post #: 1372
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 3:23:44 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I find myself wondering if there is a soft spot in the Allies perimeter which can be poked to upset his OODA loop! I know it is dangerous without full knowledge of his CV locations, but it is almost certain that he has them near his major operations in the Arafura Sea. Sending out KB with a CS or two to provide seaplane search ahead, and Glen equipped subs evern further ahead might catch him flat-footed in a place like .... Pearl Harbour!
Surely your A6M5 Zeros can handle the older fighters he has there and hold off the LBA? The big down side of the plan is that it reveals KB, but then he has to frantically pull back ships from the Australia area if he wants to keep Hawaii in operation. The big prize at PH is the dockyard!

Disclaimer- OK, this is an "armchair quarterback" idea from someone with no stake in the outcome other than entertainment, but I hate to see "defence only" from such a brilliant player while he still has a sharp stick to poke with!


While I would definitely have thought the same in my first game as Japan I would not be a fan of this kind of move now after getting into late 43 in my current campaign, for several reasons. Especially not in this mod.

Fuel is precious, but strategy is even more crucial, and unless there are very clear strategic goals, the KB is better served sitting around protecting the most vital areas. What if GJ went sailing, brought his 25-30 fuel guzzling ships out there and found out the Allies were in fact ready and waiting to strike the DEI behind him? Without the KB there and with West OZ in Allied hands Q-Ball wouldn't even need the full complement of CVs to get troops ashore in Timor or even Java, and then what do you do?

The KB can be a difference maker for a good half year still and really hold back any advance as long as it is hidden and yet in position to strike. The best chance GJ has is to let Q-Ball think he's doing really well, get him over-confident and encourage him to launch an early strike into the heart of the defense before he has superiority.

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Post #: 1373
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 7:10:56 PM   
SqzMyLemon


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I have to agree with obvert's analysis. KB's role at this stage of the war is strategic. GreyJoy gains nothing using KB in a raiding type role. He's stated numerous times his priority is to strengthen his position and prevent an early Allied lodgement in the DEI. Nothing could be worse than having KB raiding Pearl Harbor and completely out of position if the Allies then moved in the DEI.

The temptation to "do something" often leads to disaster or diverts assets away from set strategic goals. In this case, concentrating on "defence" shows us how disciplined and good a player GreyJoy is becoming. I'm sure he'll use KB effectively, but using it for raiding won't be.




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Post #: 1374
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 8:24:47 PM   
Cribtop


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I would argue with Obvert with the caveat that veij and BB are correct in some respects re passivity and concentration.

Based on that my recommendation is to have KB VERY close to Timor, waiting to pounce. Why? 1) To me, Q has shown a strong hand that he is making a pincer move on Darwin preparatory to a move into the DEI. This appears to be his big push. 2) If it's NOT his big push, can you think of any other spot more dangerous for him to hit than the islands Java - past Timor? Only the Kuriles, but given the season and your preparations there, you have that covered. Thus, put KB near Kendari ready to hit an invasion hard from day 1. Then if this is all a feint and he lands in the Gilberts, you won't have the ice in your guts feeling that comes from a future nest of 4E bases in range of DEI oil fields in late '42.

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Post #: 1375
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 8:25:29 PM   
GreyJoy


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Guys, i really appreciate the conversation, the suggestions and the brainstorming you're offering me! Thanks!

To be honest i do feel the same about my purely defensive strategy... i've been witnessing what a capable jap player can do, even in 1943, against Rader and i do know that i am not using the talents God (well, Gary Grigsby) gave me -as a japanese player- in the best way.
At the same time i do feel i have a powerfull but very very fragile asset in my hands and i do realize i am not a competent and experienced Japanese player...and that explains my extra cautiousness(sp?!).

i'd be tempted to do something. I am always tempted to give Brad some paybacks...but i know my perimeter is fragile and i know i'm facing an opponent that has many many games under his belly, with both sides.
That's why i'm taking the safe-way... And, as someone just suggested (obvert i guess), i wanna lure him into a fake sense of security, hoping that, sooner or later, all these easy-going landing operations will push him to committ some mistakes...and that's exactly the time when i MUST be ready with everything i have to counterattack. To do that i need my toys at hand and i need them to be efficient, operative at 100% and ready.

I need to keep fixed into my mind which are the strategic priorities: don't let him advance into the inner perimeter. My goal MUSTN'T be to inflict him losses or damage. No. The allies can always recover (and i know that), while Japan cannot. So everything "tactical" must be first pass a strategical check. A raid, as SqzMyLemon pointed out, even a GREAT raid, cannot pass that check. not in this particular game time.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 01, 42

Today we pushed back easily another corp that Brad sent from Chungking to Neikiang. Tanks, bombers and clear terrain make a deadly combination for the chinese...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Neikiang (75,44)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 7155 troops, 113 guns, 440 vehicles, Assault Value = 345

Defending force 4857 troops, 31 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 127

Japanese adjusted assault: 291

Allied adjusted defense: 10

Japanese assault odds: 29 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: disruption(-), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
1499 casualties reported
Squads: 33 destroyed, 23 disabled
Non Combat: 40 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 9 (4 destroyed, 5 disabled)
Units retreated 1

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
4th Tank Regiment
2nd Tank Division
47th JAAF AF Bn

Defending units:
37th Chinese Corps



but the real good news of today arrived from akyab.
The RN cruisers bombed. The RAF/USAAF bombed both the troops and the base. The enemy army attack....and got repulsed once again with heavy losses! BANZAI!!! We're holding the line!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Akyab (54,45)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 40922 troops, 554 guns, 842 vehicles, Assault Value = 1599

Defending force 31249 troops, 303 guns, 143 vehicles, Assault Value = 723

Allied adjusted assault: 871

Japanese adjusted defense: 3163

Allied assault odds: 1 to 3 (fort level 4)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
684 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 14 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 25 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 37 disabled

Allied ground losses:
1679 casualties reported
Squads: 28 destroyed, 151 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 50 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 18 disabled
Vehicles lost 109 (2 destroyed, 107 disabled)

Assaulting units:
254th Armoured Brigade
7th Armoured Brigade
268th Motorised Brigade
18th British Division
6th Chinese Corps
85th British AT Gun Regiment

Defending units:
15th Ind Engineer Regiment
23rd Ind Engineer Regiment
2nd Division
6th RTA Division
93rd JAAF AF Bn
11th JAAF Base Force
5th Mortar Battalion
3rd Mortar Battalion
2nd RF Gun Bn /1
25th Army
36th Field AA Battalion
5th RF Gun Bn /1







Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1376
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 8:33:54 PM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

I would argue with Obvert with the caveat that veij and BB are correct in some respects re passivity and concentration.

Based on that my recommendation is to have KB VERY close to Timor, waiting to pounce. Why? 1) To me, Q has shown a strong hand that he is making a pincer move on Darwin preparatory to a move into the DEI. This appears to be his big push. 2) If it's NOT his big push, can you think of any other spot more dangerous for him to hit than the islands Java - past Timor? Only the Kuriles, but given the season and your preparations there, you have that covered. Thus, put KB near Kendari ready to hit an invasion hard from day 1. Then if this is all a feint and he lands in the Gilberts, you won't have the ice in your guts feeling that comes from a future nest of 4E bases in range of DEI oil fields in late '42.


Agree Obvert. The point is that Kendari is too exposed to his subs-catalinas search abilities. I need to be a little bit further, near Babeldoleap(Pelieu) in order to be able to remain hidden and to counter anything that arrives in that area.
Timor now has 250 fighters and 200 bombers + 100 torpedo bombers can concentrate there within a day (keeping those assets between Java and Singapore, while the KB at 2 days trip means i can cover in a pretty short time any major effort in the pacific (major effort that will surely require the presence of his CVs for more than 2 days).
Right behind Timor there will also be a strong SAG with 3 BBs, 3 CAs and several DDs plus a mini-KB....but the big boys (the CVs) needs to be kept hidden for now imho.

Darwin will surely be conquered within a month. I cannot defend that far. but he will need time to build it into a big AF from where to cover his next advance...so he can A) go really bold and accelerate the process by landing somehwere in my inner perimeter before building up northern OZ (which will require some months) - and in this case he will be exposed cause he will need all his CVs for several days operating into enemy waters - or B) conquer Darwin and build it into a fortress...but he will lose the momentum, cause in those months i'll have time to build up my defences.
I gotta be ready for both

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Post #: 1377
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 8:37:29 PM   
BBfanboy


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Greyjoy, I understand your mindset now and certainly no player should try something he is uncomfortable with.
I must disagree that there is nothing critical for the Allies to lose at this point. Those APs and AKs that can become APAs/AKAs later are vital to his invasions and any that you can sink slow down his pace. CVs are similarly valuable, but they have teeth too!
Anyway, you are still doing very well and we are all enjoying the show - "Full Speed Ahead"!

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

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Post #: 1378
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 8:37:52 PM   
Canoerebel


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GJ, you want another good dose of encouragement?

Go back and read Cuttlefish's AAR for his game against Q-Ball.  If I remember correctly, Q-Ball invaded Timor hugely in October of '42.  By the end of '42, the wheels had come off for Japan (including a disastrous carrier battle near Ceram).

Son, compared to the Japanese in that game, you are standing in high cotton (that's a good thing if you're a southerner who plants cotton but doesn't have to get down in the dirt and work it).

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Post #: 1379
RE: The China Syndrome - 11/28/2012 8:52:41 PM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Greyjoy, I understand your mindset now and certainly no player should try something he is uncomfortable with.
I must disagree that there is nothing critical for the Allies to lose at this point. Those APs and AKs that can become APAs/AKAs later are vital to his invasions and any that you can sink slow down his pace. CVs are similarly valuable, but they have teeth too!
Anyway, you are still doing very well and we are all enjoying the show - "Full Speed Ahead"!


I know BB. But i remember i lost ALL my AP/AKs in late 42 in the attempt to conquer PM and yet i was able to land 2 millions supplies and nearly 20 divisions in ealry 44 in Hokkaido...so yes, they are important, but not vital.
But, anyway, those AP/AKs will be where the CVs will be...right where i want to be able to have my KB. That's why i don't wanna risk to be out of position when he comes

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