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TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME!

 
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TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 7:04:31 AM   
Auchinleck

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		I mean I just paid $80 for the download. I started with the US side on historical difficulty, on December 8th, my first turn to do anything. So I command my scattered CV taskforces (Lexington) & (Enterprise) back to Pearl using the safest route back from air attack, so what happens? The Enterprise taskforce gets wiped out, except for a few destroyers by the apparently not too in a hurry to get his precious Pearl Harbor strike force Nagumo, back to Japan. It also attacked the Indianapolis on it's way back to Pearl also. NOT VERY REALISTIC! I'm surprised the AI didn't invade and capture Hawaii while they're at it! What, do I need to play with the AI heavily favoring the US in order for this to play out even close to historical??? Extremely discouraging to even want to start over. Considering how long my first turn took, with all that needs to be done on the first turn! I'll bet the lousy programming that went into the game would do the same thing again anyway, even if I could talk myself into starting over. Can I get my 80 bucks back???!!!
Post #: 1
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 7:12:54 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3628
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		From what I've read here in the forums isnt it random? Ive read posts talking about how the entire fleet at Pearl was wiped out and ive seen a post describing how the American player did not lose one ship.

Sorry for any bad typing. I'm on my phone.

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Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

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Post #: 2
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 7:18:55 AM   
Auchinleck

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Well if it's that random, maybe I'll get lucky and drop Fat Man on Hiroshima on December 9th.

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Post #: 3
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 7:21:47 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3628
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		I'm not sure if it's that random. I'm just going from what ive read in the forums. I bet one of the regulars here can answer any questions.

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After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

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Post #: 4
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 7:29:21 AM   
Roger Neilson 3


Posts: 246
Joined: 4/12/2012
Status: offline 		I am worried that you so quickly give up on the best game ever created.....

Maybe its too big for you, maybe you just tried to do too much too quickly.

I have spent thousands of hours on this game and am still making sense of some aspects.

Either its not for you at all, or you really need to step back a bit and take it in bite size chunks - plus this forum is great for help.

Roger

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Post #: 5
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 7:39:14 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4551
Joined: 2/21/2006
From: AE:96,160 @ 103,55
Status: offline 		The AI is randomised by scripts. The script which is used is seeded on the first turn. You obviously got one of the more A-historical scripts. If you want to play a more historical game you need to delete some of the scripts
quote:

Just to answer a question I get asked a lot once :)

The AI files for Scen 1, 2 and 6 (and therefore 7,8, 9 and 10.

are all identical

There are 13 files (14 now but the last is not released yet)

aei00x.dat
aei00x-001.dat to 06 .dat are more historical
07 - 12 are less historical

So delete the 07-14 for a more historical campaign
I refer you to this thread...
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2392749&mpage=1&key=scripts%2Chistorical�

Now, I know your wish may be to play out the PacWar as it happened and you can sort of do that, but this is a game after all, and the AI is not going to be exact nor interesting for all if it only did that ...

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EconDoc
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Tutes

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Post #: 6
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 7:43:02 AM   
Auchinleck

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Well Roger I'll try and start over one more time. This time I'll send the Big E and the Lady Lex tf's south, before heading them back to Pearl. Do you think that will help? All I tried to do, was send Halsey back to Pearl like he did historically. Historically, the Imperial Fleet was half way back to Japan by December 8th, they weren't still in the neighborhood of Pearl Harbor, where they could have picked off the Enterprise task force. Can you tell me how choosing the functions between the direct, safer, or safest routes to your destination from air attack are supposed to have any effect. I chose safest, and that had seemingly had no effect.

(in reply to Roger Neilson 3)
Post #: 7
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 8:19:07 AM   
Puhis


Posts: 1627
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Auchinleck
Can you tell me how choosing the functions between the direct, safer, or safest routes to your destination from air attack are supposed to have any effect. I chose safest, and that had seemingly had no effect.


I believe that setting have no meaning for carrier TF. By definition carriers are not going to avoid air threat.

AI is not going to do exactly historical moves, and I'm sure you are going to do "ahistorical" moves too. Isn't the all idea of playing this kind of games to try your own strategies, adapt to unexpected situations etc?

< Message edited by Puhis -- 7/1/2012 8:20:13 AM >

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Post #: 8
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 8:25:39 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 1800
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: online 		Auchinleck, I think you would benefit from reading a few AARs to get a basic grasp of the game.

There is a "Biginners AAR" on the forum that might be a very good start. It found here: Click me

Donīt give up just yet. But a good advice would be to calm down a bit. Ranting on about how the game sucks and you want your money back after playing for a few days isnīt a very good way to get help and people wonīt take you seriously. I myself have played WITP and WITP:AE almost every day for six years and I still donīt understand everything.

(in reply to Auchinleck)
Post #: 9
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 8:54:49 AM   
Roger Neilson 3


Posts: 246
Joined: 4/12/2012
Status: offline 		Yes that's a better route, whilst the Japs headed back after one strike they contemplated hanging rond as well - indeed some PBEMs can have days of Pearl Strikes. Another good option is to head down towards Xmas Island then up from there, you should have the fuel.

The routing options are based on what the computer thinks is the safe option - its always best t trust your ow instincts and set waypoints.

This is a really immersive game and the level of data is awesome, but it takes a lot of learning. My learning style is to jump in and see what happens, but a lot of people prefer a short scenario that has limits to what you are trying to do until you get the basics down.

Roger

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Post #: 10
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 8:56:08 AM   
Roger Neilson 3


Posts: 246
Joined: 4/12/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Auchinleck, I think you would benefit from reading a few AARs to get a basic grasp of the game.

There is a "Biginners AAR" on the forum that might be a very good start. It found here: Click me

Donīt give up just yet. But a good advice would be to calm down a bit. Ranting on about how the game sucks and you want your money back after playing for a few days isnīt a very good way to get help and people wonīt take you seriously. I myself have played WITP and WITP:AE almost every day for six years and I still donīt understand everything.

quote:

There is a "Biginners AAR" on the forum that might be a very good start. It found here: Click me


That beginners AAR is a must read.....

Roger

< Message edited by Roger Neilson 3 -- 7/1/2012 9:00:20 AM >

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Post #: 11
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 9:05:35 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3843
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Welcome to the forums, and donīt get discouraged that fast. Many here play the game and its predecessors for more than
a decade now, and are still learning new stuff.

I would either suggest you learn by using a smaller scenario (e.g. 1000 Mile War, or Guadalcanal), or accept the fact that you have an
increased chance of crushing defeats against the AI, and either cope with it, or keep a savegame ready to enable you
to make small changes and rerun the turn.

As n01487477 said, you could delete some of the scripts that are more ahistorical than others, but this would take a lot of suspense
out of the game.

Have fun!

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

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Post #: 12
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 9:05:52 AM   
Encircled


Posts: 619
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline 		I lost Lexington and everything with her on my first turn ever as well.

I'm still going strong in July '42, having learnt a ton of stuff along the way.

One thing about this game that you have to realise

You will lose carriers!

(in reply to Auchinleck)
Post #: 13
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 9:08:26 AM   
Roger Neilson 3


Posts: 246
Joined: 4/12/2012
Status: offline 		I have to ask, are carriers that important to the Allies? I regularly lose a few, or alternatively never use them....... hasn't done me much harm.....


But then I'm crazy.

Roger

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Post #: 14
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 9:11:55 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3843
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled
You will lose carriers!


Whatever you do. In the night. Against submarines. After Ammo Storage Explosions.


Not for the easily discouraged, this game.

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S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

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Post #: 15
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 9:14:27 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3843
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

I have to ask, are carriers that important to the Allies? I regularly lose a few, or alternatively never use them....... hasn't done me much harm.....


But then I'm crazy.

Roger


It s your third account, and you are still here. Thats what I call tenancy. Whats a few carriers? Pffff....
I admittedly have this sinking feeling, if one of mine is sinking...


Edit: tenancy is the wrong word I just found out...what is the correct one? tenacious?

< Message edited by LoBaron -- 7/1/2012 9:17:14 AM >

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S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

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Post #: 16
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 9:16:02 AM   
Reg


Posts: 2097
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: Victoria, Australia
Status: offline
Strange as it seems, your difficulty getting to grips with the game is actually an advantage.

A game mastered on first play will be boring on the second and most likely will not be played a third time.....

WITP:AE is most definitely does not fall into this category and will provide a challenge for a long time to come!!



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Cheers,
Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has introduced a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

(in reply to Roger Neilson 3)
Post #: 17
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 9:20:28 AM   
Roger Neilson 3


Posts: 246
Joined: 4/12/2012
Status: offline 		Yes tenacious.

As for Carriers, the Allied ones can take a lot of punishment and still, maybe, just maybe, stay afloat.

The Empires ones get a scratch on their side and over they go......

He he he

Roger

< Message edited by Roger Neilson 3 -- 7/1/2012 9:23:31 AM >

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Post #: 18
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 9:22:30 AM   
Empire101


Posts: 1896
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Coruscant
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

I have to ask, are carriers that important to the Allies? I regularly lose a few, or alternatively never use them....... hasn't done me much harm.....


But then I'm crazy.

Roger



It s your third account, and you are still here. Thats what I call tenancy. Whats a few carriers? Pffff....
I admittedly have this sinking feeling, if one of mine is sinking...


Edit: tenancy is the wrong word I just found out...what is the correct one? tenacious?



Well yes, but tenancy is just as good, as many, like Roger, live in the forum, so technically they are tenants

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Post #: 19
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 9:51:17 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 13622
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Welcome to the game the scripts dont impact on the AI at Pearl.

That was my opening gambit to shock the old lags on the forum when we released AE who kept saying the AI was predictable (I enjoyed the reaction and the swearing that came my way on that one in the first few days :) :) )

Nagumo wil normally head for home but there is a small chance he will do a couple of different things based on random die rolls.

It was designed to shock players of the AI to realise the AE AI is NOT as easy as the WITP one.

I hope you stick with it.


(in reply to Empire101)
Post #: 20
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 10:01:58 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3843
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Evil.

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S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

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Post #: 21
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 10:04:08 AM   
Itdepends

 

Posts: 548
Joined: 12/12/2005
Status: offline 		And the AI would only be able to follow the 100% historical route if the player did likewise- which would be ..........boring.

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Post #: 22
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 11:35:25 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 7039
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		The game is a challenge to a player the first time they play because you're learning the ropes. One strength of this game is that the AI does things that were historically possible, but were not done in the real war. Nagumo wanted to consolidate his victory and get out of dodge before the Americans could react, so he did turn and run back to Japan as fast as possible. He could have lingered around Pearl for a second strike, or gone west to the Marshalls.

It may be frustrating the first time you play, but you'll learn to appreciate it the next couple of times you play and the AI does something completely different. When I was testing the game, I lost count of how many times I restarted. Andy's AI scripts kept me on my toes every time.

One of the strengths of a game is replayability and IMO, this game ranks very high on that scale.

Bill

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Post #: 23
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 1:42:50 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 4427
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

The Empires ones get a scratch on their side and over they go......

He he he

Roger

Scratch? How about a whiff of a scratch? I've had the Hiryu sink just from the wind of a 1000lb'er

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Pax

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Post #: 24
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 1:49:52 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4714
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		Well, I had Shokaku being hit by a 1000lbs and she got 1 sys damage!

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Post #: 25
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 2:30:05 PM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

Posts: 1531
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

can't expect the enemy to do exactly as you want them to..


also recommend playing a pbem against a human opponent, you may understand the war a lot better

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Post #: 26
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 2:58:21 PM   
Hanzberger


Posts: 739
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: SE Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Well, I had Shokaku being hit by a 1000lbs and she got 1 sys damage!

Yea but hit the stockpile of kegs on deck....

Don't give up on this game, it's a mind bender and the best pc game of it's kind. Just play through the turn or start a small scenario.
Try a couple of restarts to get the results you want. I think playing the AI, I would not want to harm the KB on the first turn either.
d

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Japan AC wire chart here
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2769286&mpage=1&key=?

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Post #: 27
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 3:34:31 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 14855
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Well, I had Shokaku being hit by a 1000lbs and she got 1 sys damage!


Yeah, but what about the 35 floatation and 90 fire damage?

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Post #: 28
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 3:39:58 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1017
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline 		Auchinleck -

Welcome to the AE Forums!

Just to put things into perspective, I bought WitP (original) in 2004, but never really got the hang of it; there seemed so much to do and learn that it was overwhelming.

It wasn't till AE in 2009 that I actually began to stick with it, and slowly but surely began to grasp (at least) the basics.

I am so pleased to have a new player join us! Lots of good advice posted by folks who know what they are about. Please stick with it, don't hesitate to ask for help. I am addicted to this forum because of the quality of the members - a very smart group of gents and lady.

Hang in there, Sir - once AE has you in it's grip resistance is futile... <grin>

Mac

< Message edited by Mac Linehan -- 7/1/2012 3:41:23 PM >

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Post #: 29
RE: TERRIBLY DISCOURAGING GAME! - 7/1/2012 3:54:10 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 6201
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Yes, welcome to the forums and congratulations on your first ever "rant".. While not ranking among the best I have seen (or done myself) you are off to a good start and with a little experience you should be able to vent and rant about this game with the best of us....(Well nobody rants as good as Castor Troy)

Seriously, don't give up. It is a hard game to master with a steep learning curve but I think that is what makes it one of the best out there. If you love history and the Pacific War there is no other. And, what you posted tells us and you is that you were surprised and taken aback by the AI. Well, if the AI did exactly what you expected it to do then you know that you will soon be able to figure it out and the game would quickly become tedious and boring.

I am not a fan of AI and always play humans, but I played the AI for first six months of the campaign and found the AI in AE to be one of the best in that it really did a great job in the early months. After that, it just got too easy to figure it out.

My suggestion is to start with the smaller scenarios and don't hesitate to ask questions here. There is plenty of help here. And it seems like there are a tremendous amount of new players posting on the forum as of late. Find a newish human player and start a small email game. It is much more fun. My experience is that playing solely against the AI limits your learning and allows you to form bad habits. Give it another try and I bet you will be lurking here for a long time...

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