Matrix Games

quote:

ORIGINAL: Farfarer
I'm still curious what the advantage is of 'losing' 600K troops in a gradual withdrawal is compared to just returning to Poland and a fortified Leningrad? You know you can retake it all in 1942, especially if the SHC pushes past the Dniepr. I am seriously missing something ( a few screws perhaps?) I guess.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish


I would bet his units are pretty much shells by the time he halts - even in our game (where I did not press as hard / far) the rail lines were a b**** for sometime, and he can't afford to be building a bunch of new RR brigades...you could be setting up for a very nice counter strike.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Farfarer

I'm still curious what the advantage is of 'losing' 600K troops in a gradual withdrawal is compared to just returning to Poland and a fortified Leningrad? You know you can retake it all in 1942, especially if the SHC pushes past the Dniepr. I am seriously missing something ( a few screws perhaps?) I guess.

quote:

ORIGINAL: janh

quote:

ORIGINAL: Farfarer
I'm still curious what the advantage is of 'losing' 600K troops in a gradual withdrawal is compared to just returning to Poland and a fortified Leningrad? You know you can retake it all in 1942, especially if the SHC pushes past the Dniepr. I am seriously missing something ( a few screws perhaps?) I guess.

You mean the Wehrmacht pulling all the way back to Poland by December 1941? I would expect this would lead to a hilarious situation, and one not at all benefiting the German side.

If I were the Russian opponent, I would send only a small fraction of my forces after the Wehrmacht back up to the border, likely mostly cavalry, a few armored brigades and whatever I else can spare, probably everything set to only 70% ToE. The goal would be to flip all the hexes, destroy the converted railroads again, and put up a speed bump so the Wehrmacht won't quickly roll back to the last MBTL (say typically sthg like Leningrad-Moscow-Voroshilovgrad-Rostov). A delay until May would already be bad for Axis, but even if the speed bumps slow Axis progress a little for only 3-4 turns after the blizzard penalties end by March, they will be taking at least until August to get the hexes flipped back and, importantly, the railroads repaired again.

So I would assume an Axis player could not start launching a serious 2nd summer offensive before September 42 and would find the Russians entrenched in level 3-4 in about the area of the previous winter, but corrected for better terrain and now entrenched in depth. And all the while training on "refit" and prepping unmolested. Axis will likely face a Red Army that is reshaping faster than usual, although it will itself be substantially stronger as well. But come summer 43, even if Axis manages an offensive, it will lack much time of building its own defensive it could have build since 41. I think this strategy would fling back at the Wehrmacht badly. Once it has the bear by its throat, it better shouldn't let go even if the outcome is almost clear.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
Allot of the SHC 43 offensive depends on if they have any exp building the right stuff.

I have played vs huge 8 to 9 million men armys in 42 that were very easly pocketed and totally wiped out by the end of summer. And played vs 5.5 to 6.5 million men armys that I had a bitch of a time with in 42.