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RE: Steam? - 7/28/2012 4:49:59 AM   
adecoy95


Posts: 403
Joined: 3/26/2010
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IMO, steam or not, at this point in the games life, especially with an expansion (i think?) coming up this fall, the game should be bundled into a single package, for at MOST, 20 dollars. Then people that would have in no way spent 90 dollars on the full game experience will give out cash, and if they like the game, they will probably be willing to give up some holiday money on the next expansion.

(in reply to Kordanor)
Post #: 61
RE: Steam? - 7/31/2012 2:59:02 PM   
Setekh


Posts: 177
Joined: 12/12/2010
From: Norfolk, England
Status: offline
Game is doing fine as is imo, doesn't really need to be on Steam.
In fact I would like to think that this is one of the more mature gaming forums I frequent and that would certainly change if all of the frothy mouthed counter-striking Steam kids roll in.

No offence to CS players.

_____________________________


(in reply to adecoy95)
Post #: 62
RE: Steam? - 8/6/2012 9:37:42 AM   
Bleek


Posts: 215
Joined: 10/26/2011
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
Food for thought - an indie dev' who loves Steam:

quote:

“If it wasn’t for Steam I would probably still be working in business software, occasionally working on hobbyist game development projects. At best I might be half-time in each job, but that would be tough to sustain in the long term. Once we got on Steam, suddenly Pablo and I were able to quit the day jobs and do this fulltime.”


Read the full interview here.

(in reply to Setekh)
Post #: 63
RE: Steam? - 8/6/2012 9:00:47 PM   
dejagore

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 11/23/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bleek

Food for thought - an indie dev' who loves Steam:

“If it wasn’t for Steam I would probably still be working in business software, occasionally working on hobbyist game development projects. At best I might be half-time in each job, but that would be tough to sustain in the long term. Once we got on Steam, suddenly Pablo and I were able to quit the day jobs and do this fulltime.”



Same good stuff could happen to Code Force / Matrix Games but obviously they are not interested in spreading this game to wider audience (and making a heap of $$$).

Personally I like Steam and would love to see DW there (hack! I'd buy another copy of DW on steam to support DEVs) but it's their game and their decision. I'm fine with that as long as they will support and expand this GREAT game!

< Message edited by dejagore -- 8/6/2012 9:01:26 PM >

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 64
RE: Steam? - 8/6/2012 10:28:28 PM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5305
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline
Maybe Steam is not interested?

(in reply to dejagore)
Post #: 65
RE: Steam? - 8/7/2012 1:37:02 PM   
onomastikon

 

Posts: 182
Joined: 11/29/2011
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What's so great about Steam from a user's perspective? I wish I didn't have to have it for some games. Sure, publishers might like it, but why should we want to support it? Much rather have something vastly less intrusive and clunky.

(in reply to doomtrader)
Post #: 66
RE: Steam? - 8/9/2012 4:04:41 AM   
slovenian89

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/20/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: onomastikon

What's so great about Steam from a user's perspective? I wish I didn't have to have it for some games. Sure, publishers might like it, but why should we want to support it? Much rather have something vastly less intrusive and clunky.


Are you serious? I'll list a few:

1. Easy & Convenient way to purchase games. - No more retail stores or having to create an account on multiple sites to make a purchase.
2. Automatic Updates - No need to watch news/forums for announcements for patches on individual sites for each game you play.
3. Easily Find & Launch your games. - No need for desktop/taskbar shortcuts for your games.
4. Cloud Saves (for some games) - easily continue your saves from another computer or just as a backup
5. In-Game Chat Overlay for both Steam games and Non-Steam Games
6. Screenshots saved on Cloud
7. Steamworks - Achievements, Leaderboards, Profiles, MP Matchmaking, DLC, Anti-Cheat, Voice Chat...
8. Community - Groups for Games/Genres/Similar Interests - find more people to play games with
9. Sales

(in reply to onomastikon)
Post #: 67
RE: Steam? - 8/9/2012 6:33:17 AM   
pipewrench


Posts: 446
Joined: 1/5/2010
Status: offline
slovenian89

All well and good but you left out a couple of things:

You cannot re-sell a game you purchased using their system, unless you attach a separate account for each game. resale value

You are forced into their terms of service because you do not own the game. What happens if 6 months from now they start charging a subscription fee for the cloud?

"A clarification of their rights in TERMS AND TERMINATION and more:
“Valve may cancel your Account or any particular Subscription(s) at any time. In the event that your Account or a particular Subscription is terminated or cancelled by Valve for a violation of this Agreement or improper or illegal activity, no refund, including of any Subscription fees, will be granted.”

Control

If you love steam, great! Just understand that you are a renter and the landlord can impose fees at a future date to increase profits.

Edit: and this is where it is going,free to play.

If this takes off lets hope that a subscription service does not follow.



< Message edited by pipewrench -- 8/9/2012 6:54:34 AM >

(in reply to slovenian89)
Post #: 68
RE: Steam? - 8/9/2012 12:41:22 PM   
Bleek


Posts: 215
Joined: 10/26/2011
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pipewrench

slovenian89

All well and good but you left out a couple of things:

You cannot re-sell a game you purchased using their system, unless you attach a separate account for each game. resale value


I'd just like to comment on that, the majority of modern games require activation and have zero resale value once activated.

(in reply to pipewrench)
Post #: 69
RE: Steam? - 8/9/2012 3:17:09 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 6842
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slovenian89

quote:

ORIGINAL: onomastikon

What's so great about Steam from a user's perspective? I wish I didn't have to have it for some games. Sure, publishers might like it, but why should we want to support it? Much rather have something vastly less intrusive and clunky.


Are you serious? I'll list a few:

1. Easy & Convenient way to purchase games. - No more retail stores or having to create an account on multiple sites to make a purchase.
2. Automatic Updates - No need to watch news/forums for announcements for patches on individual sites for each game you play.
3. Easily Find & Launch your games. - No need for desktop/taskbar shortcuts for your games.
4. Cloud Saves (for some games) - easily continue your saves from another computer or just as a backup
5. In-Game Chat Overlay for both Steam games and Non-Steam Games
6. Screenshots saved on Cloud
7. Steamworks - Achievements, Leaderboards, Profiles, MP Matchmaking, DLC, Anti-Cheat, Voice Chat...
8. Community - Groups for Games/Genres/Similar Interests - find more people to play games with
9. Sales


Counter points, if I may:

1. Never had a problem driving down to my local game retailer...and I get a physical copy that way.
2. Many games already have built in auto-updates from the game official sites.
3. What is so hard about finding my DW or WiTP shortcut and clicking it? Plus I can make command line tags on a shortcut.
4. Since I don't play on any other computer, what would be the benefit? Also, what if the cloud is inaccessible?
5. I've seen games with that overlay...its clunky and usually just in the way. My gaming group uses voice chat, much easier and more convenient.
6. I prefer my screenshots on my computer so I can easily access and edit them if I so desire.
7. Nice, but fluff for someone like me who plays mostly single player games or PBEM like WiTP.
8. I'll give you this one...for people that play lots of multiplayer games.
9. Again, I'll give you this one.

So as you can see...almost every point you had can be seen from a different perspective.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to slovenian89)
Post #: 70
RE: Steam? - 8/9/2012 3:22:10 PM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1343
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slovenian89

quote:

ORIGINAL: onomastikon

What's so great about Steam from a user's perspective? I wish I didn't have to have it for some games. Sure, publishers might like it, but why should we want to support it? Much rather have something vastly less intrusive and clunky.


Are you serious? I'll list a few:

1. Easy & Convenient way to purchase games. - No more retail stores or having to create an account on multiple sites to make a purchase.
2. Automatic Updates - No need to watch news/forums for announcements for patches on individual sites for each game you play.
3. Easily Find & Launch your games. - No need for desktop/taskbar shortcuts for your games.
4. Cloud Saves (for some games) - easily continue your saves from another computer or just as a backup
5. In-Game Chat Overlay for both Steam games and Non-Steam Games
6. Screenshots saved on Cloud
7. Steamworks - Achievements, Leaderboards, Profiles, MP Matchmaking, DLC, Anti-Cheat, Voice Chat...
8. Community - Groups for Games/Genres/Similar Interests - find more people to play games with
9. Sales


I'm not a Steam fan at all, I wouldn't want DW to go on Steam. The people supporting Steam here are sounding like they think everything has to go on Steam to be successful. That is called a monopoly and it is generally a bad thing for the consumer.

1. Yes the steam store is fantastic, I agree. However, if it were just a store it would be perfect, why do I have to run the games through Steam aswell? I just want to download an .exe file I can install and run the game without having to open Steam up all the time and run it through that.

2. Yup that was annoying as hell, when Skyrim updated to those first few buggy patches even though I explicitly told it not to, not to mention one of the patches made it impossible to play in offline mode, and impossible not to download the patch, lol. Nope, I update when I want to, not when I'm told to, unless I have no choice (Steam/Skyrim)

3. Nope it is harder to find and launch games. Because, when I load up windows and my desktop shortcut is right there I just double click it (or I use the pinned part of my start menu which has just all my games in it for easy access). But with Steam I have to log into my account everytime which takes longer, download update for steam if there is one, get the stupid shop advert pop-up etc. Don't even get me started on wanting to play single player when the internet is down and not being able to because can't connect to Steam...

4. Never used it. Don't really want my files floating around online either if I'm honest. Saved games it doesn't matter, but what if it all goes this way, certainly don't want documents etc going online.

5. Who cares, seriously why would I want to chat when playing Distant Worlds, it is single player.

6. Yup and I can't view them for some reason. Never tried to save any myself, but I can't view other peoples because the loading time is incredibly slow, flickr is much better in my opinion.

7. Seriously, for DW? Nope none of this stuff is needed. Achievements, leaderboards etc, not at all interested for any game. DLC, would prefer to have it available everywhere so I can shop around for the best price, but if you once again want to support a single platform dictating all prices be my guest.

8. Once again I've never used Steam for this stuff. I agree it is nice, but there are other ways of doing it that are just as good, or better. Best community I was ever part of was Trackmania a few years back and that had nothing to do with Steam whatsoever.

9. Yes because it is the only way. Just like Internet Explorer, the worst browser was the most popular before we really had a *CHOICE*. Now Amazon, please open up your own platform to rival Steam! Give us a choice!

_____________________________

"My body may be confined to this chair, but my mind is free to explore the universe" - Stephen Hawking

(in reply to slovenian89)
Post #: 71
RE: Steam? - 8/9/2012 5:59:56 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5087
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline
quote:

I just want to download an .exe file I can install and run the game without having to open Steam up all the time and run it through that.


Well, we can't have it all. If you could just download and play, then you could give it (or sell it) away, unless there's some sort of DRM or other copy-protection. Steam is that DRM. Matrix uses a serial number, which is great, but I have to wonder if that's as secure a system of copy-protection. Maybe it is?

An alternative system, of course, is for developers to sell physical disks with copy protection. But that means no convenient downloading.

I'm not complaining about Matrix's system, mind you. But I like Steam too.

< Message edited by Grotius -- 8/9/2012 6:02:22 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to WoodMan)
Post #: 72
RE: Steam? - 8/9/2012 6:39:43 PM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1343
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

quote:

I just want to download an .exe file I can install and run the game without having to open Steam up all the time and run it through that.


Well, we can't have it all. If you could just download and play, then you could give it (or sell it) away, unless there's some sort of DRM or other copy-protection. Steam is that DRM. Matrix uses a serial number, which is great, but I have to wonder if that's as secure a system of copy-protection. Maybe it is?

An alternative system, of course, is for developers to sell physical disks with copy protection. But that means no convenient downloading.

I'm not complaining about Matrix's system, mind you. But I like Steam too.


Steam could improve a lot by giving you a choice where you install everything! It installs to the Steam directory and doesn't give you a choice. I made a small drive for my operating system then Steam without asking installed itself to that drive. Now it installed Skyrim which with mods is in excess of 17GB on my operating system drive, lol. I'm not 100% against Steam, I just feel like I've been force fed it:
-No choice to install it or not because game won't work without it
-No choice where to install it (I understand this is possible somehow though)
-No choice where to install the games you download through it
-No choice to play single player games without loggin into Steam
-No choice if I want to patch my game or not, does it automatically (yes I know you can tell it not to, but in some cases even this doesn't work for 'legal' reasons/DRM)

My ideal system would be basically Amazon with a 'Download' button instead of a 'send it by post' button

< Message edited by WoodMan -- 8/9/2012 6:42:52 PM >


_____________________________

"My body may be confined to this chair, but my mind is free to explore the universe" - Stephen Hawking

(in reply to Grotius)
Post #: 73
RE: Steam? - 8/9/2012 7:20:23 PM   
pipewrench


Posts: 446
Joined: 1/5/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bleek

I'd just like to comment on that, the majority of modern games require activation and have zero resale value once activated.


Why is that? (looks at watch and wonders??)



That is one of the draws that bring developers to steam. It destroys the resale market. The other big one is it controls piracy by selling a license to operate the game on terms that are out of your control.

Imagine if the car market worked like this?


You do not own the car but own the license to drive the car.

The dealership dictates the terms of the license and can at any time impose new fees or conditions. Failure to sign will result in repossession of the car and all other purchases made with the dealership.

Any changes made to the car must be made thru the dealership.

You can only sell it at the dealership to others who frequent the dealership with no cash value upon sale.

You cannot trade it in to upgrade to a better model.

To drive with friends you must use their road which is free for now.

You cannot file class action if all the seat belts are faulty but must use dispute resolution that favors the car company.

But

There is a lot less car theft and
you have all the bells and whistles in the car.

Toll booth's are not on the roads as of yet.

Competition, for now ,has kept cost to the developer and consumer in check.


I hope that this does not turn out in 5 years to be a cable type monopoly controlled by a select few who can now dictate a subscription service to access content. This can naturally lead to monthly charges as purchases made are tied to the distribution network that is not regulated.

Again, Enjoy steam. Keep in mind that you do not have any legal rights to the purchase you made.

extreme example of an old game that holds resale value

Note: Things are happening behind the scene's.

players have the right to resell digital download games(but this is not technically binding)

Moved for tax reasons

< Message edited by pipewrench -- 8/10/2012 2:50:28 PM >

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 74
RE: Steam? - 8/9/2012 9:06:47 PM   
Panpiper

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
...the details of revenue split with Steam is confidential - nobody has anything more than an educated guess as to what it involves. So your statement proclaiming the benefits of exposure is completely ignorant of the costs of that exposure?

Did you ever establish the efficacy of Steam distribution? How many people see an increase in revenue, profit and an improvement in their situation? If it's so great - then surely you can provide numeric proof to support your claim?


I can give you that educated guess. I sell stuff online using a number of similar services, and I have never heard of any such service taking more than 40%. The least cut I have ever heard from an online retailer was 30%, though I could believe someone might make a go of it at 20%, though that would likely cost them in terms of being able to afford to pay for exposure, which would fit the Matrix bill. (20% barely covers credit card services and the six month rolling reserve that the credit card companies typically impose upon online merchants.) I strongly suspect that Matrix is closer to that 20% while Steam is probably 40%, and that does pose quite the baulk factor for a lot of people, the idea of giving up that much.

What most producers fail to understand however is that very often, the larger commission sellers have a much higher profile. They bring their own traffic, their own market, to the producer. Yes, the producer can decide that they will stick to getting 80% of 100 sales, or they can go for 60% of a 1000 sales. Personally I am quite happy to let the larger sellers take their larger commissions, as I know I am getting vastly higher sales through them than I would otherwise.

All that said, my biggest beef with this game is it's price. I am expected to fork out $130.00 (Canadian) to get the game with it's expansions. Frankly, that is an utterly outrageous price. Typically when a new sequel gets released, the previous versions get reduced so as to keep the price for the latest version reasonable for a new entrant. That has not been done with this game and the end result is that they have literally priced themselves out of the market. There is no way in hell I am going to pay twice the price I have ever paid for any game in my life, after 30 years of computer gaming and several hundred games purchased. 90% of all the games I have ever purchased have been uninstalled within the first hour. This may be a great game, but so were a lot of games I uninstalled, as one never knows whether or not the game that was great for others, will click with you.

The day a package deal gets offered (with the required prequels included) making the latest version of the game price competitive with other games, is the day I buy this game. Until then, this is an absurdly overpriced boondoggle that I am not going to take a risk on.

(in reply to Kayoz)
Post #: 75
RE: Steam? - 8/9/2012 10:49:30 PM   
Gandalf

 

Posts: 216
Joined: 12/15/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

<snip>

-No choice to play single player games without loggin into Steam
-No choice if I want to patch my game or not, does it automatically (yes I know you can tell it not to, but in some cases even this doesn't work for 'legal' reasons/DRM)

My ideal system would be basically Amazon with a 'Download' button instead of a 'send it by post' button


Not to praise Steam, but the last two points are no longer correct.

If you set Steam to "Offline Mode" so that the next time you start up a Steam installed game, you are queried in a small box whether to remain in "Offline Mode" or not. You can choose to remain in "Offline Mode" and proceed to play Single Player mode of the game AND no updates will occur as long as you remain in "Offline Mode"... The downside to this is that you cannot purchase any new Steam games NOR selectively update an individual game.

(in reply to WoodMan)
Post #: 76
RE: Steam? - 8/9/2012 11:05:11 PM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1343
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline
Hey Gandalf, the Skyrim hoohaa was that Steam automatically forced Offline mode to off, and then updated your game. This was a few months back now. But I was one of the people who had read all the bug reports first and didn't want to update. I've given up on it now and don't fiddle with the settings at all anymore. I only use it for one game anyway

_____________________________

"My body may be confined to this chair, but my mind is free to explore the universe" - Stephen Hawking

(in reply to Gandalf)
Post #: 77
RE: Steam? - 8/9/2012 11:39:36 PM   
Gandalf

 

Posts: 216
Joined: 12/15/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

Hey Gandalf, the Skyrim hoohaa was that Steam automatically forced Offline mode to off, and then updated your game. This was a few months back now. But I was one of the people who had read all the bug reports first and didn't want to update. I've given up on it now and don't fiddle with the settings at all anymore. I only use it for one game anyway


Earlier this year there was a change to the Steam client software. At that time, I placed mine in "Offline Mode". Subsequently, sometime around late March/early April there was a major update to Shogun 2 altering some major behaviors in the game. Since I had a game going at the time, I did not want the update to take place until after I was done with the current game. It took me around 3 months to finish that game since I had some long work hours going on in real life. No forced changes to my "Offline Mode" was made during the entire time I took to finish out that game. Just this week, I manually allowed it to finally start up in "Online Mode" and immediately the update process for Shogun 2 started... 25 Gigabytes worth.

< Message edited by Gandalf -- 8/9/2012 11:40:11 PM >

(in reply to WoodMan)
Post #: 78
RE: Steam? - 8/10/2012 12:17:07 AM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1343
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gandalf

quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

Hey Gandalf, the Skyrim hoohaa was that Steam automatically forced Offline mode to off, and then updated your game. This was a few months back now. But I was one of the people who had read all the bug reports first and didn't want to update. I've given up on it now and don't fiddle with the settings at all anymore. I only use it for one game anyway


Earlier this year there was a change to the Steam client software. At that time, I placed mine in "Offline Mode". Subsequently, sometime around late March/early April there was a major update to Shogun 2 altering some major behaviors in the game. Since I had a game going at the time, I did not want the update to take place until after I was done with the current game. It took me around 3 months to finish that game since I had some long work hours going on in real life. No forced changes to my "Offline Mode" was made during the entire time I took to finish out that game. Just this week, I manually allowed it to finally start up in "Online Mode" and immediately the update process for Shogun 2 started... 25 Gigabytes worth.


Maybe I got it wrong, perhaps it didn't force offline mode off, but it just updated Skyrim anyway even though you had offline mode set. Basically, at release the DRM was not implemented properly and they actually fixed it in a patch, this was when it forcefully updated. I don't know all the facts, all I know is I don't care about the DRM because I always play legit, so fair enough, but I got all the rest of the bugs that came with the patch with it, hehe. Anyway, my opinion on that game has changed, I love it now and think they supported it well, the first 8 weeks or so was just a joke though, rushed to deadline probably.

_____________________________

"My body may be confined to this chair, but my mind is free to explore the universe" - Stephen Hawking

(in reply to Gandalf)
Post #: 79
RE: Steam? - 8/10/2012 2:47:36 AM   
slovenian89

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/20/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan


quote:

ORIGINAL: slovenian89

quote:

ORIGINAL: onomastikon

What's so great about Steam from a user's perspective? I wish I didn't have to have it for some games. Sure, publishers might like it, but why should we want to support it? Much rather have something vastly less intrusive and clunky.


Are you serious? I'll list a few:

1. Easy & Convenient way to purchase games. - No more retail stores or having to create an account on multiple sites to make a purchase.
2. Automatic Updates - No need to watch news/forums for announcements for patches on individual sites for each game you play.
3. Easily Find & Launch your games. - No need for desktop/taskbar shortcuts for your games.
4. Cloud Saves (for some games) - easily continue your saves from another computer or just as a backup
5. In-Game Chat Overlay for both Steam games and Non-Steam Games
6. Screenshots saved on Cloud
7. Steamworks - Achievements, Leaderboards, Profiles, MP Matchmaking, DLC, Anti-Cheat, Voice Chat...
8. Community - Groups for Games/Genres/Similar Interests - find more people to play games with
9. Sales


I'm not a Steam fan at all, I wouldn't want DW to go on Steam. The people supporting Steam here are sounding like they think everything has to go on Steam to be successful. That is called a monopoly and it is generally a bad thing for the consumer.

1. Yes the steam store is fantastic, I agree. However, if it were just a store it would be perfect, why do I have to run the games through Steam aswell? I just want to download an .exe file I can install and run the game without having to open Steam up all the time and run it through that.

2. Yup that was annoying as hell, when Skyrim updated to those first few buggy patches even though I explicitly told it not to, not to mention one of the patches made it impossible to play in offline mode, and impossible not to download the patch, lol. Nope, I update when I want to, not when I'm told to, unless I have no choice (Steam/Skyrim)

3. Nope it is harder to find and launch games. Because, when I load up windows and my desktop shortcut is right there I just double click it (or I use the pinned part of my start menu which has just all my games in it for easy access). But with Steam I have to log into my account everytime which takes longer, download update for steam if there is one, get the stupid shop advert pop-up etc. Don't even get me started on wanting to play single player when the internet is down and not being able to because can't connect to Steam...

4. Never used it. Don't really want my files floating around online either if I'm honest. Saved games it doesn't matter, but what if it all goes this way, certainly don't want documents etc going online.

5. Who cares, seriously why would I want to chat when playing Distant Worlds, it is single player.

6. Yup and I can't view them for some reason. Never tried to save any myself, but I can't view other peoples because the loading time is incredibly slow, flickr is much better in my opinion.

7. Seriously, for DW? Nope none of this stuff is needed. Achievements, leaderboards etc, not at all interested for any game. DLC, would prefer to have it available everywhere so I can shop around for the best price, but if you once again want to support a single platform dictating all prices be my guest.

8. Once again I've never used Steam for this stuff. I agree it is nice, but there are other ways of doing it that are just as good, or better. Best community I was ever part of was Trackmania a few years back and that had nothing to do with Steam whatsoever.

9. Yes because it is the only way. Just like Internet Explorer, the worst browser was the most popular before we really had a *CHOICE*. Now Amazon, please open up your own platform to rival Steam! Give us a choice!

1. Because Steam is DRM, hence why it is attractive to publishers, they don't have to develop one on their own. Plus that goes with point #3.

2. Sounds like more of a problem of the developers releasing un-tested patches/updates.

3. Well, we probably have a different amount of games then. I have over 800 so it would be kind of hard to have them all on my desktop or in my start menu... I have Steam as auto-login and it takes 10 seconds to login, yup very painful. Steam updates increase that to 30 seconds, oooh! You can disable the shop adverts via options, perhaps look to disable something before complaining about it? Steam has offline mode, works fine for me when I don't have internet.

4. What does saving documents online have to do with Steam Cloud saves?

5. Guess I play different games than Distant Worlds and lots of online games. Perhaps my friend wants to go play Company of Heroes or something and messages me while I'm playing Distant Worlds?

6. Sounds like an internet problem on your end, load fast for me.

7. Sure, it's not needed but those things can attract more players...which in turns brings more money to the developers to continue development on REAL features. In case you didn't know, the Publishers determine the prices on Steam...not Steam.

8. It's a preference for me to be able to do that through the same program as everything else I'm doing.

9. I'm sorry what? Last time I checked there are many choices for digital distribution...

Someone asked as to what makes Steam attractive to gamers, I answered why I like it, and many reasons why my friends like it. Why is this now turned into a debate of DRM and why people hate Steam? Just because a game gets added to Steam, doesn't mean it won't be available from the locations it is now... Where did I say, or anyone, that Distant Worlds should ONLY be available on Steam?

< Message edited by slovenian89 -- 8/10/2012 2:49:18 AM >

(in reply to WoodMan)
Post #: 80
RE: Steam? - 8/10/2012 2:36:54 PM   
pipewrench


Posts: 446
Joined: 1/5/2010
Status: offline
slovenian89,

Well, we probably have a different amount of games then. I have over 800 so it would be kind of hard to have them all on my desktop .

You seriously purchased a subscription to 800 games that you do not own? Hopefully you have at least half that are not subscription dependent otherwise your entire gaming collection is at the mercy of 1 corporation. I would hope that before you buy another game read the latest wording in the new agreement.

"You understand that neither this Agreement nor the terms associated with a particular Subscription entitles you to future updates, new versions or other enhancements of the Software associated with a particular Subscription although Valve may choose to provide such updates, etc. in its sole discretion.

Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal use in accordance with this Agreement and the Subscription Terms. The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software."

What raises red flags is that you are now forced to accept conditions that take away your rights. You must agree first to new conditions imposed to gain access to previous purchases on you subscription.

Just logged onto steam and got a audio and visual popup requiring acceptance of new terms of service---- which basically was mandatory binding Arbitration and limited or no right to sue. Just the latest to jump on the bandwagon. And it told me that acceptance was *required* to continue. In reading the Steam forums, Your account is locked until you agree. If you don't agree, you don't use Steam--- and you forfeit the licenses you have bought, and oh, no refunds.link:


There is a lengthy debate which ranges from healthy to bizarre that you might look into.

With all this in mind.. If Distant worlds were to use Steam-works for distribution you as a consumer would be subject to a subscription and above contract. Even if sold in-house it would still be subject to terms that can be changed anytime with little regard to consumer rights or the law. If you disagree with any new terms you lose access to your account and all games linked to that account. Extortion at it's finest.

Remember it is a subscription and as it stands for now it is free. EA sports meet Steam.

< Message edited by pipewrench -- 8/10/2012 2:41:57 PM >

(in reply to slovenian89)
Post #: 81
RE: Steam? - 8/10/2012 3:06:45 PM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1343
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slovenian89

quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan


quote:

ORIGINAL: slovenian89

quote:

ORIGINAL: onomastikon

What's so great about Steam from a user's perspective? I wish I didn't have to have it for some games. Sure, publishers might like it, but why should we want to support it? Much rather have something vastly less intrusive and clunky.


Are you serious? I'll list a few:

1. Easy & Convenient way to purchase games. - No more retail stores or having to create an account on multiple sites to make a purchase.
2. Automatic Updates - No need to watch news/forums for announcements for patches on individual sites for each game you play.
3. Easily Find & Launch your games. - No need for desktop/taskbar shortcuts for your games.
4. Cloud Saves (for some games) - easily continue your saves from another computer or just as a backup
5. In-Game Chat Overlay for both Steam games and Non-Steam Games
6. Screenshots saved on Cloud
7. Steamworks - Achievements, Leaderboards, Profiles, MP Matchmaking, DLC, Anti-Cheat, Voice Chat...
8. Community - Groups for Games/Genres/Similar Interests - find more people to play games with
9. Sales


I'm not a Steam fan at all, I wouldn't want DW to go on Steam. The people supporting Steam here are sounding like they think everything has to go on Steam to be successful. That is called a monopoly and it is generally a bad thing for the consumer.

1. Yes the steam store is fantastic, I agree. However, if it were just a store it would be perfect, why do I have to run the games through Steam aswell? I just want to download an .exe file I can install and run the game without having to open Steam up all the time and run it through that.

2. Yup that was annoying as hell, when Skyrim updated to those first few buggy patches even though I explicitly told it not to, not to mention one of the patches made it impossible to play in offline mode, and impossible not to download the patch, lol. Nope, I update when I want to, not when I'm told to, unless I have no choice (Steam/Skyrim)

3. Nope it is harder to find and launch games. Because, when I load up windows and my desktop shortcut is right there I just double click it (or I use the pinned part of my start menu which has just all my games in it for easy access). But with Steam I have to log into my account everytime which takes longer, download update for steam if there is one, get the stupid shop advert pop-up etc. Don't even get me started on wanting to play single player when the internet is down and not being able to because can't connect to Steam...

4. Never used it. Don't really want my files floating around online either if I'm honest. Saved games it doesn't matter, but what if it all goes this way, certainly don't want documents etc going online.

5. Who cares, seriously why would I want to chat when playing Distant Worlds, it is single player.

6. Yup and I can't view them for some reason. Never tried to save any myself, but I can't view other peoples because the loading time is incredibly slow, flickr is much better in my opinion.

7. Seriously, for DW? Nope none of this stuff is needed. Achievements, leaderboards etc, not at all interested for any game. DLC, would prefer to have it available everywhere so I can shop around for the best price, but if you once again want to support a single platform dictating all prices be my guest.

8. Once again I've never used Steam for this stuff. I agree it is nice, but there are other ways of doing it that are just as good, or better. Best community I was ever part of was Trackmania a few years back and that had nothing to do with Steam whatsoever.

9. Yes because it is the only way. Just like Internet Explorer, the worst browser was the most popular before we really had a *CHOICE*. Now Amazon, please open up your own platform to rival Steam! Give us a choice!

1. Because Steam is DRM, hence why it is attractive to publishers, they don't have to develop one on their own. Plus that goes with point #3.

2. Sounds like more of a problem of the developers releasing un-tested patches/updates.

3. Well, we probably have a different amount of games then. I have over 800 so it would be kind of hard to have them all on my desktop or in my start menu... I have Steam as auto-login and it takes 10 seconds to login, yup very painful. Steam updates increase that to 30 seconds, oooh! You can disable the shop adverts via options, perhaps look to disable something before complaining about it? Steam has offline mode, works fine for me when I don't have internet.

4. What does saving documents online have to do with Steam Cloud saves?

5. Guess I play different games than Distant Worlds and lots of online games. Perhaps my friend wants to go play Company of Heroes or something and messages me while I'm playing Distant Worlds?

6. Sounds like an internet problem on your end, load fast for me.

7. Sure, it's not needed but those things can attract more players...which in turns brings more money to the developers to continue development on REAL features. In case you didn't know, the Publishers determine the prices on Steam...not Steam.

8. It's a preference for me to be able to do that through the same program as everything else I'm doing.

9. I'm sorry what? Last time I checked there are many choices for digital distribution...

Someone asked as to what makes Steam attractive to gamers, I answered why I like it, and many reasons why my friends like it. Why is this now turned into a debate of DRM and why people hate Steam? Just because a game gets added to Steam, doesn't mean it won't be available from the locations it is now... Where did I say, or anyone, that Distant Worlds should ONLY be available on Steam?


I think you missed the point I'm trying to make entirely. Steam has many great features I agree. But, I don't want to be forced to use it. Pure and simple. Nor when I'm using it do I want to be forced to do anything like update my games etc or use particular features. Nor do I want developers or publishers to feel forced to use it because it is currently the only real option for online mass distribution of games.

And as for your point 7, remember Erik did post a long time ago that DW did not go with Steam because when they looked into it Steam got such a large cut they would have to sell more than a realistic amount of copies to make the same profit that they have here on their own website at their own prices. This is a niche game so there is no guarantee the audience is there for it.

Publishers go with Steam because they are frightened that if they don't their game will not sell due to a lack of publicity and because they are frightened of piracy. In doing so they hand over a lot of their revenue to another company (a rival company too). Bravo to Matrix for having the courage to stand up against something like this.

Also where are the moderators? This thread is ridiculous please move it to the general section of the forum as it is having a very negative impact on this otherwise great forum and it is off topic, most people discussing Steam in general without relation to DW.

Anyway, thats my last input to this thread.

< Message edited by WoodMan -- 8/10/2012 3:07:59 PM >


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(in reply to slovenian89)
Post #: 82
RE: Steam? - 8/10/2012 7:27:43 PM   
ehsumrell1


Posts: 1802
Joined: 8/17/2010
From: The Briar Patch Nebula
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

Publishers go with Steam because they are frightened that if they don't their game will not sell due to a lack of publicity and because they are frightened of piracy. In doing so they hand over a lot of their revenue to another company (a rival company too). Bravo to Matrix for having the courage to stand up against something like this.

Also where are the moderators? This thread is ridiculous please move it to the general section of the forum as it is having a very negative impact on this otherwise great forum and it is off topic, most people discussing Steam in general without relation to DW.

Anyway, thats my last input to this thread.


I second that Martin....well said!


_____________________________

Shields are useless in "The Briar Patch"...

(in reply to WoodMan)
Post #: 83
RE: Steam? - 8/10/2012 11:25:58 PM   
Windfire


Posts: 124
Joined: 10/24/2003
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1

quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan


Also where are the moderators? This thread is ridiculous please move it to the general section of the forum as it is having a very negative impact on this otherwise great forum and it is off topic, most people discussing Steam in general without relation to DW.

Anyway, thats my last input to this thread.


I second that Martin....well said!



I would echo this request as well. Please move this thread to the general forum.

(in reply to ehsumrell1)
Post #: 84
RE: Steam? - 8/11/2012 10:23:24 AM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2193
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline
Oh now I see where this thread suddenly cam from; the DW subforum...
Well for what it's worth, and it's not a pro or contra argument, but in the  Steam Summersale I have bougth quite a few games for only a handful of €. Limbo for a few bucks, the complete Stalker series for a few bucks, and so on.
So yeah there may be pro's and con's to Steam... but it certainly had me buy some games

(ofcourse now that I have them I'm playing Afrika Korps... go figure)

(in reply to Windfire)
Post #: 85
RE: Steam? - 8/12/2012 6:14:41 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3628
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline
I love Steam.

_____________________________

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 86
RE: Steam? - 8/12/2012 6:41:28 AM   
parusski


Posts: 4591
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: offline
Steam has brought me and my family great wealth and happiness. And you too can have it, all for the low, low price of just $49.99, made payable to the parusski-Steiner-warspite-nate-ilovestrategy-Orm-doomtrader charity for us.

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(in reply to ilovestrategy)
Post #: 87
RE: Steam? - 8/13/2012 4:01:14 AM   
Panpiper

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Panpiper
The day a package deal gets offered (with the required prequels included) making the latest version of the game price competitive with other games, is the day I buy this game. Until then, this is an absurdly overpriced boondoggle that I am not going to take a risk on.


Well, guess what I am installing...

I had decided to buy the initial version anyway, just because I was bored with all my other games, and when I go to finalize the checkout, 'THEN' I discover that there is in fact a promotional offer whereby one can get the supplements at a reduced price. Err... Normally one is informed of promotional offers 'before' a purchase has been decided upon. There was no hint anywhere I saw that there was in fact a package deal available. I expect a good many more sales could be made if the promotional deal was used for, I dunno, promotion?

Needless to say, I took the deal.

(in reply to Panpiper)
Post #: 88
RE: Steam? - 1/2/2013 6:53:04 PM   
ccguy

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 11/25/2012
Status: offline
I've been eyeballin' Distant Worlds for a while now and many people think it is the best 4x game out there including MOO2. I've been following gaming news regularly but I somehow had missed this game completely, base game and 2 expansions! There is no advertising whatsoever or barely any discussion outside of matrix forums. How is this related to steam? Well, Steam gives lots of publicity for niche titles. I'm sure Close Combat and Distant Worlds would feel like home with Civ and Total War. Putting your games on Steam or other digital distributors doesn't mean you need to shutdown matrix shop.

You don't want to make deep discounts? That's fine, neither does activision with its Call of Dooty series. Same game released yearly over and over again and yet years old titles have pitiful 33% discounts out of $60.

(in reply to Panpiper)
Post #: 89
RE: Steam? - 1/2/2013 7:23:52 PM   
Kayoz


Posts: 1369
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ccguy
Putting your games on Steam or other digital distributors doesn't mean you need to shutdown matrix shop.


The forums have a search utility.

This has been discussed to death - ad nauseum. Erik has already said unequivocally - Steam isn't a good deal for DW. And despite the multiple Steam-onanism posts, they fail to address the most important point - that of increasing the profit of the seller.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3201777&mpage=5

Some kindly moderator please lock this thread and spare the equine corpse from further flagellation.

< Message edited by Kayoz -- 1/2/2013 7:33:36 PM >


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Post #: 90
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