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RE: Steam? - 7/10/2012 10:41:04 PM   
Kal Naar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bleek
I make no claims about revenue.


So, basically your argument is - "public exposure of the game is more important than the business case that the cost of that exposure entails".

Brilliant! Such genius!


What's wrong with the hostility here?

What you're saying is that the concept of marketing and creating to exposure for games is completly wrong because, it costs money...
Brilliant deduction! I'm numbed by your enlightenment...

Can it be the word "steam" that bothers everyone? Please feel free to change it for any other distribution/marketing system that can generate awareness.







(in reply to Kayoz)
Post #: 31
RE: Steam? - 7/10/2012 10:46:22 PM   
Kayoz


Posts: 1440
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kal Naar
What you're saying is that the concept of marketing and creating to exposure for games is completly wrong because, it costs money...


Learn to read.

My position is that marketing expense with no business benefit is a -waste-.

Bleek, on the other hand, feels that marketing a product without any business case to justify the expense - is sensible. He specifically makes no claims about revenue - to him it is irrelevant.

Absolute business genius. I'm sure the lads at Matrix are preparing a job offer as we speak.

Steam business deals are confidential - you don't know their revenue split, you don't know what further obligations they place on the developer/publisher. And yet, despite your ignorance of the facts which are required to make any sort of business decision - you advocate Steam despite the fact that Erik has already dealt with them and declined to enter into a business relationship? It's not "steam" that bothers me. It's ignorant statements which bother me.

< Message edited by Kayoz -- 7/10/2012 10:52:36 PM >


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(in reply to Kal Naar)
Post #: 32
RE: Steam? - 7/10/2012 11:27:41 PM   
danlongman

 

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I use Steam when I have to, when it is convenient or when the price is too good to bypass.
Matrix does not use Steam. So i buy their products direct or, on occasion from other retail outlets.
I really like to have my own disc for a game but will do without if there is no option.
Why does every second jackass think the people at Matrix have not yet thought of using Steam or some other venue?
When these representatives of jackassery post do they imagine somebody here reads it and thinks:
"Hmmm what a great idea Uknown Jackass had!!! I think I shall use Steam for all future distribution!!!"
I mean, really, ....... save your energy and mine.
cheers

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(in reply to Kayoz)
Post #: 33
RE: Steam? - 7/11/2012 12:19:47 AM   
Bleek


Posts: 216
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From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kal Naar
What you're saying is that the concept of marketing and creating to exposure for games is completly wrong because, it costs money...


Learn to read.

My position is that marketing expense with no business benefit is a -waste-.

Bleek, on the other hand, feels that marketing a product without any business case to justify the expense - is sensible. He specifically makes no claims about revenue - to him it is irrelevant.

Absolute business genius. I'm sure the lads at Matrix are preparing a job offer as we speak.

Steam business deals are confidential - you don't know their revenue split, you don't know what further obligations they place on the developer/publisher. And yet, despite your ignorance of the facts which are required to make any sort of business decision - you advocate Steam despite the fact that Erik has already dealt with them and declined to enter into a business relationship? It's not "steam" that bothers me. It's ignorant statements which bother me.


Oh dear, how old are you?

At what point did I say it revenue was irrelevant?

You're making it up as you go along, reading things out of content and twisting words to suit your agenda.

Grow up.

And can I just say, on what authority are you to condescend me in such a way, you know nothing about me or my business acumen. Clearly.

< Message edited by Bleek -- 7/11/2012 12:22:16 AM >

(in reply to Kayoz)
Post #: 34
RE: Steam? - 7/11/2012 12:27:11 AM   
Kordanor

 

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Just stop arguing with him. Better for your heart. Learnt that already. ^^

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 35
RE: Steam? - 7/11/2012 1:15:06 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 33197
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Please keep it civil everyone.

Our interest and our job as the publishers of Distant Worlds is to maximize profit for everyone involved, so that we and Elliot can keep making games for a long time to come. While we have a lot of experience with strategy games and both mainstream and niche markets, we are always exploring new opportunities and keeping an open mind as well.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 7/11/2012 1:16:04 AM >


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Kordanor)
Post #: 36
RE: Steam? - 7/11/2012 3:03:00 AM   
Cauldyth

 

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I really wonder if the random hostility from a handful of posters in this forum does more to drive away potential new customers than the non-discounted price does.



(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 37
RE: Steam? - 7/11/2012 9:24:17 AM   
Bleek


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth

I really wonder if the random hostility from a handful of posters in this forum does more to drive away potential new customers than the non-discounted price does.





Quite.

I don't frequent these forums often but some of the comments leave a lot to be desired.

Distant Worlds needs higher acclaim and wider recognition than it gets and before it grows old, that should be the main argument here.

(in reply to Cauldyth)
Post #: 38
RE: Steam? - 7/11/2012 2:27:05 PM   
kaihonsou

 

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Some people trying to help and get completely shot down. Its not a pleasant form of fanboyism, almost as if some people would hate it if DS became more popular. DayZ has the same problem.

You will have someone else mentioning Steam again at some point. I never new about DS till a week before I made this thread, and after trying to find where I could buy it to no avail I made this post about steam. I, and most others did not know there are expensive terms with steam and the other reasons why its not on there.

This forum has its share of elitist assholes. Im sure they feel very strongly that its "their" game and all these suggestions are from jackasses. EVERY SINGLE NEW PERSON will read the top few forums and eventually this thread, and what conclusion do you think they will come to after reading some of these comments? Dare they try and help the developer because we know a tiny loud minority don't want it.

I wont be coming back. Thanks for the discussion and for some of the helpful people on this forum for explaining why its not on steam. I wish the developer, and publisher all the best.

Kai.

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 39
RE: Steam? - 7/11/2012 3:54:01 PM   
BTJ


Posts: 42
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kaihonsou

[...]

This forum has its share of elitist assholes. Im sure they feel very strongly that its "their" game and all these suggestions are from jackasses. EVERY SINGLE NEW PERSON will read the top few forums and eventually this thread, and what conclusion do you think they will come to after reading some of these comments? Dare they try and help the developer because we know a tiny loud minority don't want it.

I wont be coming back. Thanks for the discussion and for some of the helpful people on this forum for explaining why its not on steam. I wish the developer, and publisher all the best.

Kai.


While I do think that there are forum members around who have serious problems with their communication skills and social competency, I have not yet met somebody claiming that DW is "his" game and was implying that DW should not be brought to broader attention, i.e. perceiving themselves as member of an elitist group. That would also be completely ridiculous as we are talking about a computer game here.

However, the bottom line of your statement is completely correct. These forums have become a very sad place. The top threads are about non-game related topics and the quality of communication is in a bad state. Not very inviting atmosphere for potential customers...

This has been different: strategy discussion took place, AAR were posted, people were mostly nice to each other. I hope when the new expansion comes out that this place will be more alive again...

(in reply to kaihonsou)
Post #: 40
RE: Steam? - 7/11/2012 9:38:27 PM   
Kal Naar

 

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Yes, one can only hope things get better (they can't surelly get any worst).

(in reply to BTJ)
Post #: 41
RE: Steam? - 7/15/2012 8:29:12 PM   
romale

 

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Hello,
I'm one person, i read about distant worlds on hardforum.com. First thing i did was pull up steam and search for it. Didn't find it. Found matrix, searched for steam, found this thread. I'm one person. I know ultimately my opinion doesn't matter. I buy my products on steam because i have faith steam will always exist, i have faith i will always have access to my games. I dont have to worry about keeping a cd or i dont think i have to worry about the company going out of business. I like having all my games, in one place, up to date, and know they work (every steam game that wouldn't work on my system is flagged and only one i've ever seen was railroad tycoon 3)

Looking over matrix games theres a few titles i would like to buy. I would actually be willing to pay 5 to 10 dollars more if they were on steam. I'm not buying them because they are not on steam. Yes i know, there is some guy who said no. I get it. I went through all the trouble of registering an account and writing this out just so the powers that be know they have at least 1 sale waiting should they ever choose to be on steam

(in reply to Kal Naar)
Post #: 42
RE: Steam? - 7/18/2012 6:18:32 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 33197
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: romale
Hello,
I'm one person, i read about distant worlds on hardforum.com. First thing i did was pull up steam and search for it. Didn't find it. Found matrix, searched for steam, found this thread. I'm one person. I know ultimately my opinion doesn't matter. I buy my products on steam because i have faith steam will always exist, i have faith i will always have access to my games. I dont have to worry about keeping a cd or i dont think i have to worry about the company going out of business. I like having all my games, in one place, up to date, and know they work (every steam game that wouldn't work on my system is flagged and only one i've ever seen was railroad tycoon 3)

Looking over matrix games theres a few titles i would like to buy. I would actually be willing to pay 5 to 10 dollars more if they were on steam. I'm not buying them because they are not on steam. Yes i know, there is some guy who said no. I get it. I went through all the trouble of registering an account and writing this out just so the powers that be know they have at least 1 sale waiting should they ever choose to be on steam


Hi Romale,

Thanks for your feedback. One thing you should be aware of is that our games are sold the way games used to be sold. There's no online activation, no reliance on an online store or server after you download your game. Once you have it, it's yours (and you can get a physical copy, often with a printed manual if you like). Obviously we are here if you don't backup the file you downloaded and lose it and need to download it again. However, once you have the game as long as you keep it in a place where you won't lose it, you don't have to rely on anyone else being around in the future.

Regards,

- Erik


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to romale)
Post #: 43
RE: Steam? - 7/19/2012 2:57:51 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7188
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OK guys, just to offer a civil counter-point to the pro-Steam posters here. If Matrix sold games only through Steam they would lose at least one customer in me. It is the fact that by buying through Matrix I get the game and it is mine, no strings attached is the main selling point for me.

Steams main detracting point is that I have to depend on them for my game to work...better known as strings attached.

Here's some food for thought...last month, my computer took a lightning strike through the cable modem and failed hard. Since I had physical copies of all my Matrix titles, it was a simple matter of open the CD drive, place the CD in, enter my serial number at the prompt (serial is on the disk itself), install and play. No downloading, no online activation...simple and easy.

And if Matrix were to ever shut down (and I sincerely hope not)...I'll still have my physical copies and can still play my games, unlike a Steam or Origin where if they go away or if they decide to stop supporting a title, a game I enjoy is simply no longer available to me.

I realize that Steam and Origin are the shiny new toys of the digital download era. But sometimes old school is still superior when it comes to customer satisfaction.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 44
RE: Steam? - 7/19/2012 3:19:18 PM   
Bleek


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When you think about, Steam is actually a brilliant platform.

However just because you sell on Steam doesn't mean you can ONLY sell on Steam! Matrix could still distro their own product outside of the Steam platform.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 45
RE: Steam? - 7/19/2012 5:01:10 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7188
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And as long as I can still get the game here from the Matrix site with no strings attached, I'd have no issue with it. It's the whole EA "Origin and Origin only" stuff that has really turned me off to that type of marketing. I don't want to spend $60-$70 on a game that may no longer work at the whim of the company that sold it. I get my money's worth out of my games, I still play games from the 1990s and enjoy them.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 46
RE: Steam? - 7/19/2012 5:56:47 PM   
Bleek


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We mustn't tar Steam with the same brush - Origin is horrible, EA are pretty dire, Steam is considerably better!

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 47
RE: Steam? - 7/20/2012 2:26:41 PM   
hewwo

 

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Well, I'm going to add my 2ct and say that steam is awesome. Especially when it comes to multiplayer or mod support. There's just no excuse for not putting your games up on steam nowadays. It's the way forward for pc gaming, from my perspective (and customer is always king, right? ;)

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 48
RE: Steam? - 7/21/2012 7:05:17 AM   
feelotraveller


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I agree with Shark7.

There are many other things not to like about Steam.  For example, I have to agree to them installing software on my computer and collecting my personal information so that I can play a game I paid for.  Big turnoff.

I could be magnanimous and say that putting it on Steam is fine as long as I can get it straight from Matrix - I would add that I only want to pay Matrix what Steam pays them.  If you guys want to pay a premium to Steam (so that Matrix get as much money to keep developing the game) to get it from them, I am fine with that.   


(in reply to hewwo)
Post #: 49
RE: Steam? - 7/21/2012 10:08:47 AM   
Bleek


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Take "AI Wars: Fleet Command" as an example (another indie niche space game), even with Steam costs they've had massive exposure of an otherwise tiny independent game. The developer used to publish his Steam sales and stats and promote sales, and he still sold his titles through his own website and distributor, it was a win win situation. To his own admission he wouldn't be working on an expansion without Steam sales.

(in reply to feelotraveller)
Post #: 50
RE: Steam? - 7/21/2012 4:38:08 PM   
Rtwfreak

 

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I'd bet nickels to dollars the main reason players want to see this game goto Steam or other online distribution sites would be for the eventual $5 sale lol They aren't fooling me. Hold your ground Matrixgames don't let them have your great games for nothing.

(in reply to Kayoz)
Post #: 51
RE: Steam? - 7/24/2012 9:42:41 AM   
Rtwfreak

 

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The only thing I'd like to see is Matrixgames/Slitherine creating some type of storage system that keeps our games in the clouds that if/when we want to play them again we can just goto our members page, click on the game in the list of games that we own and it downloads an installs for us and we don't have to put that stupid CD key in again everytime there's an update or patch (you really need to fix that Matrixgames). To me that's the most annoying thing of Matrixgames games having to put that cd key in every single time we update or patch the game. You don't have to do this with Slitherine games why then do you have to do it with Matrixgames games?

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Post #: 52
RE: Steam? - 7/25/2012 12:09:29 PM   
wozza

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

And as long as I can still get the game here from the Matrix site with no strings attached, I'd have no issue with it. It's the whole EA "Origin and Origin only" stuff that has really turned me off to that type of marketing. I don't want to spend $60-$70 on a game that may no longer work at the whim of the company that sold it. I get my money's worth out of my games, I still play games from the 1990s and enjoy them.

I agree with you. I only purchased the game because it didn't use Steam. And it is time for the pro Steam group to stop telling Matrix how to run there business. And so far they have run a very good business with out Steam.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 53
RE: Steam? - 7/25/2012 12:23:16 PM   
Bleek


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wozza


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

And as long as I can still get the game here from the Matrix site with no strings attached, I'd have no issue with it. It's the whole EA "Origin and Origin only" stuff that has really turned me off to that type of marketing. I don't want to spend $60-$70 on a game that may no longer work at the whim of the company that sold it. I get my money's worth out of my games, I still play games from the 1990s and enjoy them.

I agree with you. I only purchased the game because it didn't use Steam. And it is time for the pro Steam group to stop telling Matrix how to run there business. And so far they have run a very good business with out Steam.


You're kinda' missing the point, they can still sell their own games through Matrix AND on Steam.

Steam opens up Matrix games to the biggest gamers marketplace on the planet, surely that can only be good for business (practically ever other publisher agrees).

(in reply to wozza)
Post #: 54
RE: Steam? - 7/25/2012 8:31:23 PM   
Kordanor

 

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Because it is always taken as extremely important what notch says, here is his latest comment on steam:

quote:

Yeah, it seems like pretty much all the things we wanted to do are possible on Steam now, which is brilliant! Since I made that blog post, Minecraft has kept growing very fast (and it selling faster than ever), which combined with us not being on Steam leads to some potentially interesting strategic positions. I’m not quite sure what those are, but we’re a bit wary to submit Minecraft to Steam without knowing more about what we want to do. As much as I love Steam, I do somewhat worry about the PC as a gaming platform becoming owned by a single entity that takes 30% of all PC games sold. I’m hoping for a future where more games can self-publish and use social media and friends to market their games. Perhaps there’s something we could do to help out there? I don’t know. If nothing else, we might work as an inspiration for people to self-publish. It’s probably obvious from this reply, but we’re trying to figure out what we want to do long term with the position we have now. We only recently decided to stay as independent as possible and cancelled an unannounced project that we were doing in collaboration with someone else. It’s going to be an interesting future.

To be found at: pcgamer.com/2012/07/25/notch-on-why-minecraft-still-isnt-on-steam/

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 55
RE: Steam? - 7/25/2012 9:57:00 PM   
Bleek


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You're comparing apples with oranges.

DW is NOT Minecraft!

(in reply to Kordanor)
Post #: 56
RE: Steam? - 7/25/2012 10:03:38 PM   
Kordanor

 

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Never said that.
And if you look at the previous posts, you know where I am standing.

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 57
RE: Steam? - 7/26/2012 3:32:53 PM   
pipewrench


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor

Because it is always taken as extremely important what notch says, here is his latest comment on steam:



Totally agree.

In my opinion a key thing for free artistic creative design is to be able to sell your talent at a price you want to charge. If all independent's hand over that right to a monopoly in order to increase sales you will lose that right.

Regarding Steam

< Message edited by pipewrench -- 7/26/2012 3:33:39 PM >

(in reply to Kordanor)
Post #: 58
RE: Steam? - 7/26/2012 5:41:52 PM   
Falokis

 

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After reading this thread, I'm rather shocked how much some people care how/where they download their games. It's minimal effort either way.

(in reply to pipewrench)
Post #: 59
RE: Steam? - 7/26/2012 9:28:20 PM   
Kordanor

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Falokis

After reading this thread, I'm rather shocked how much some people care how/where they download their games. It's minimal effort either way.


I can totally understand what you say. I guess it's more of a "collecting thing". For some people it's perfectly fine if they can play a game at a friend. Or if they buy a copy of a game and resell it after they are finished.
But some people still love to have boxes in their shelves for their games and keep them there. Not because they really need them, but just because it feels good for these people to have them in their collection.
And nowadays you have online platforms like steam which partially take the place of the shelve. It brings some pros and cons for the player himself. But besides that it's also a different feeling if you have another game in your steam library or at some random place in the internet especially if you also use steam as social platform.

People have very different preferences. And the best thing is to give as many options as possible.

Personally I normally either buy CE Boxes if they have really cool stuff in them or are in my favorite setting (post apocalypse) or I buy the game directly on steam. I can understand people who do not want to have their games on steam. But can't follow the argument of limiting purchase options by excluding steam being a good thing.
For me it's the same as saying that physical copies are bad, just because every indy developer needs someone to actually make this physical copy, who then gets his share.
It only becomes a bad choice if the distributer, being it steam or matrix games in this case, is really limiting the developers themselves. If that is the case of any of these both I can't say. But while I don't know much about Matrix games, basically all developers are happy about steam so far.

< Message edited by Kordanor -- 7/26/2012 9:30:52 PM >

(in reply to Falokis)
Post #: 60
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