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Briefings? - 6/14/2012 1:16:58 AM   
henri51


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I don't get it. The briefings seem unrelated to what is going on in the game. For example, the Taranovka operation briefing says that one hs to prevent the Germans from breaking out from encirclement, which (it seems to me) obviously means that the Soviets should be on the defensive against Germans breaking out or breaking into the encirclement.

But in fact, one finds that the Germans control most of the map and that the Soviets must play an attacking game to have any chance of winning.If the Soviets play defensively, the Germans will not attack and win by default.

Check out my AAR on this operation as well as those by others to confirm this, or try playing the operation yourself.

I tried playing the first couple of actions of the German operation. This time the Germans are confined to the center of the map, and indeed seem isolated. The briefing suggests that the Germans need to break out to the East (the right of the map), and there are Soviet tanks to the South and Soviet infantry to the North. So I used one platoon to hold a tree line against a possible attack by the tanks, and attacked North with the two other infantry platoons followed by the supply units, thinking that I could beat the infantry then run to the East before then Soviets tanks could catch up.

I easily destroyed the Northern Soviet force and captured an objective to the NW and one to the NE, but then I found that I was unable to go any further East.In the meantime the half-dozen soviet tanks attacked my holding force with unpromising results (for me) since I have no antitank weapons.

If the briefings told me clearly what I need to do it would make life a lot easier. I can't help feeling that the briefings were written to look interesting without much relationship to the situation on the map.

This is a great game, but it has some infuriating aspects that have me clawing at the curtains, which my wife doesn't much like.

Henri

< Message edited by henri51 -- 6/14/2012 1:18:57 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Briefings? - 6/14/2012 3:04:40 AM   
**budd**


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I've run into that situation where my troops couldn't move any further on the tac map. there's a setting that i havent tried, but have been meaning too. In the options under game and realism settings try setting the battle radius to no limit and see what that does, i've been meaning to try that out. It's not going to help with the briefings but maybe that invisible wall wont be there. Can you post if you see any difference, i'll do the same if i get to it first, i beleive the default is limited.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to henri51)
Post #: 2
RE: Briefings? - 6/14/2012 3:55:49 AM   
**budd**


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I've have played this operation from the German side up until turn 5 over and over again. It's the op i am using to learn the game and tune my system to run the game well. while i think its not much of a briefing it seems pretty accurate, at least from the german side. the units are encircled down south and you cant retreat west or northwest because of the oncoming russians. I think you need to go to the left. The briefing says breakout east and try to link up with the recon platoon, which is located on the left of the map. I've tried going east[assuming left is east], southeast, south, but i've never tried north. I tried holding in place until relieved and got pretty well creamed [not much in anti-tank assets].you have got soviet troops also coming from the northeast moving south or southeast, probably that recon force. Like i said i havent played it out yet so i'm not sure what my results would be when i finished it. I finally think i have a good handle on the game and have my system tuned for the game.I have restarted and I'm going to play through to the end. It's pretty sweet that the AI, while some moves may be generally the same it makes alot of different moves. Like i said i've restarted this op at least 5 times and i can say its been different [especially on the tac map] every time.

i do have a couple of questions for you if you dont mind. In this OP have you ever taken out a russian tank with the infantry? when i tried to hold in place I tried and tried, it says they have grenades and mines but i get them close, sneak up on the tank and order an assault and nothing. I've tried hiding them in woods and holding fire but still no luck and this is at night in the snow. Second question, for anyone actually it says they have mines, are we able to use them? if so how.


_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to **budd**)
Post #: 3
RE: Briefings? - 6/14/2012 4:13:22 AM   
lancer

 

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G'day,

The Taranovka briefing had me stumped as well.

However I found that if you click the briefing button (bottom left) you get the 'Germans breaking out from the east...' bit, as indicated, but with a small prefix of '1/5'.

I noticed that as the operation progressed, when I went back to check the briefing I got an additional text about the 'German SS moving in from the west', with this being '2/5', and so on.

It appears that the way it works is that, for Taranovka, there are five separate briefing updates that are spooned out at the appropriate point in the operation that keep you up to speed with current events. You just have to remember to keep checking the briefing button.

A reasonable approach by the designers but perhaps the interface implementation could have been done better.

Cheers,
Lancer

(in reply to **budd**)
Post #: 4
RE: Briefings? - 6/14/2012 4:30:11 AM   
**budd**


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thx for the info, didn't know the briefing was updated. I can see where i read the briefing wrong.it doesnt really say breakout to the east. It says breakout of encirclement. next part: advance eastward [with units from lower left map edge i'm guessing] to join SS division. Makes more sense now.Once again a better manual would of helped. i kinda like the implementation, now that i know.




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< Message edited by **budd** -- 6/14/2012 4:33:36 AM >


_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to lancer)
Post #: 5
RE: Briefings? - 6/14/2012 9:14:43 AM   
redmarkus4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lancer

G'day,

The Taranovka briefing had me stumped as well.

However I found that if you click the briefing button (bottom left) you get the 'Germans breaking out from the east...' bit, as indicated, but with a small prefix of '1/5'.

I noticed that as the operation progressed, when I went back to check the briefing I got an additional text about the 'German SS moving in from the west', with this being '2/5', and so on.

It appears that the way it works is that, for Taranovka, there are five separate briefing updates that are spooned out at the appropriate point in the operation that keep you up to speed with current events. You just have to remember to keep checking the briefing button.

A reasonable approach by the designers but perhaps the interface implementation could have been done better.

Cheers,
Lancer


Ah... that explains a lot! Thanks :)

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(in reply to lancer)
Post #: 6
RE: Briefings? - 6/14/2012 10:53:04 PM   
henri51


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Joined: 1/16/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: **budd**

I've have played this operation from the German side up until turn 5 over and over again. It's the op i am using to learn the game and tune my system to run the game well. while i think its not much of a briefing it seems pretty accurate, at least from the german side. the units are encircled down south and you cant retreat west or northwest because of the oncoming russians. I think you need to go to the left. The briefing says breakout east and try to link up with the recon platoon, which is located on the left of the map. I've tried going east[assuming left is east], southeast, south, but i've never tried north. I tried holding in place until relieved and got pretty well creamed [not much in anti-tank assets].you have got soviet troops also coming from the northeast moving south or southeast, probably that recon force. Like i said i havent played it out yet so i'm not sure what my results would be when i finished it. I finally think i have a good handle on the game and have my system tuned for the game.I have restarted and I'm going to play through to the end. It's pretty sweet that the AI, while some moves may be generally the same it makes alot of different moves. Like i said i've restarted this op at least 5 times and i can say its been different [especially on the tac map] every time.

i do have a couple of questions for you if you dont mind. In this OP have you ever taken out a russian tank with the infantry? when i tried to hold in place I tried and tried, it says they have grenades and mines but i get them close, sneak up on the tank and order an assault and nothing. I've tried hiding them in woods and holding fire but still no luck and this is at night in the snow. Second question, for anyone actually it says they have mines, are we able to use them? if so how.



Hold on, isn't East on the right on the strategic map? Don't tell me that on Soviet maps, East is on the left...

No tanks destroyed yet, when I stopped playing the tanks had only just started to cream my platoon holding the tree line, no tanks had been destroyed yet and I had lost one infantry to the tanks. This was not very surprising to me, which is why I wanted to get the heck out of there before the tanks arrived. When I realized that my top units had hit a wall, I changed my mind and instead of scooting out from the tree line, I figured that they would have a better chance to survive if they stayed put...

Henri

< Message edited by henri51 -- 6/14/2012 10:54:53 PM >

(in reply to **budd**)
Post #: 7
RE: Briefings? - 6/14/2012 11:58:27 PM   
**budd**


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From: Tacoma
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Yea east is right . I just thought the briefing had an error . Pulled my surrounded units in the south out to the left. I also misread the briefing. The tanks give my troops in the south fits. I slaughter the Russian infantry and run, the tanks still get there pound of flesh. I just try and save the troops in the south until the other units are released. Still no luck with the tanks.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to henri51)
Post #: 8
RE: Briefings? - 6/15/2012 7:52:57 AM   
redmarkus4


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If you can, place your infantry deeper inside the woods and order them to hold fire. Once tanks enter the woods (or built up areas) your infantry have a much better chance of taking them out.

I have been destroying 2, 3 or 4 enemy tanks and APCs each battle using infantry.

_____________________________

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Post #: 9
RE: Briefings? - 6/15/2012 1:21:26 PM   
icebox


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quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

If you can, place your infantry deeper inside the woods and order them to hold fire. Once tanks enter the woods (or built up areas) your infantry have a much better chance of taking them out.

I have been destroying 2, 3 or 4 enemy tanks and APCs each battle using infantry.


+1, Grenades and molotov cocktails can disable, destroy and cause panic to tank's, apc's and their crew.

(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 10
RE: Briefings? - 6/15/2012 4:17:26 PM   
redmarkus4


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Actually, I find it a bit too easy to kill AFVs and APCs now that I've had some practice. Some of the AI moves are a bit suicidal. After the next patch, if there are no changes to this, I might post a suggested list of AI behaviour modifications on the Graviteam site.

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Post #: 11
RE: Briefings? - 6/15/2012 4:18:04 PM   
redmarkus4


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Practice your AFV killing skills on the QB maps - so you don't lose a whole campaign trying to perfect this!

_____________________________

Cyberpower tower PC
Intel Core i7-3930k CPU, 3.20GHz processor
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Realtek sound card
Dell 3007WFP (running at 2560x1600) 32 bit monitor
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(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 12
RE: Briefings? - 6/15/2012 6:38:01 PM   
**budd**


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I've tried all this, I must be missing something. I have had what I would call perfect setups in woods. I've tried to order assaults , attacks, Target orders....no dice. Sometimes they just lay down next to the tank. I have not had any attack a tank. It says there carrying grenades and mines. I've only played the one campaign from the German side, where there encircled. Actually I was surprised the tanks went thru the woods. I mean as soon as it looks right , I pause and order assault , and have tried attack also. The tanks were real close.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 13
RE: Briefings? - 6/16/2012 12:10:46 AM   
redmarkus4


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I don't order assault or attack - just leave them in defensive mode. My infantry take on the AFVs without my orders once the vehicles approach them.

_____________________________

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Intel Core i7-3930k CPU, 3.20GHz processor
32 GB RAM
2TB HD
2xNVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 graphics cards, each with 4095 MB
Realtek sound card
Dell 3007WFP (running at 2560x1600) 32 bit monitor
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit O

(in reply to **budd**)
Post #: 14
RE: Briefings? - 6/16/2012 5:14:07 PM   
**budd**


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Is this close enough I did knock the track off, but guess what... ran out of grenades....Sh**
You were right on about not giving orders. They did it on their own, saw them throw the grenades, couldn't catch a screenie of it though.




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_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 15
RE: Briefings? - 6/16/2012 8:47:41 PM   
redmarkus4


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That's how it's done but a Matilda is always going to be tough to crack! You'll get more success playing as the Soviets vs. a PzGr unit - lots of open top APCs to set on fire!

_____________________________

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32 GB RAM
2TB HD
2xNVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 graphics cards, each with 4095 MB
Realtek sound card
Dell 3007WFP (running at 2560x1600) 32 bit monitor
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit O

(in reply to **budd**)
Post #: 16
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