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RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea!

 
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RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/22/2013 8:20:09 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
I don't even like herring when it's alive and smilin' at me. This sounds disgusting. I have a friend who goes to Iceland on business a lot and he tells of a national disgusting dish involving shark fin buried in the ground to rot or something. Why? Why? I know it's dark and cold, but leave the rotted shark fin alone and go talk to some girls already.


Hehe, well to be honest it really smells awful. But its quite good. If eaten properly. Jamie Oliver tried it in one of his episodes and found it delicious.

Ive heard about the shark fin dish. I think the Top Gear guys ate it in one of their episodes! They wernt too happy with it! :D But if Im given the opportunity I would try it. At least once!


There's something similar eaten by the natives in Alaska with seal flipper. I don't get the whole bury-it-until-it-rots Russian roulette.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1321
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/22/2013 8:26:31 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
Updated status vs the KB

With the upcoming Mindanao landing I decided to make a check of the KB.

The KB
Im assuming the following ships are either sunk or out of action for some time:

CVL Ryujo
CV Kaga
CV Akagi
CVL Zuiho
CVL Shoho
CV Junyo
CV Hiyo


Thats sums up to a total of 368 planes less. Leaving the KB with about 625 planes in total. A decline of 37% before the Battle of the Celebes sea. A quite substantial number!

Allied CV Fleet
Before the battle of the Celebes sea the allies could muster 1585 planes in the CV fleet. The current total now reads 1312 planes. A decline of only 18%. So the battle further enhanced the allied CV power. We now have just above 2 times the numbers of the KB. And thats not the whole story because the Allied CV were also upgraded with some better aircraft. 200 Hellcat F6F-3 were upgraded to:
-80 Corsairs
-120 Hellcat F6F-5

If Erik has done the same math I have I highly doubt he will try and take on the Allied CV fleet again. But I wont let my guard down. Erik has never so far showed any reluctance to use the KB. Biggest threat will be LBA and I acted accordingly with increasing the number of fighters and setting some previous on escort to CAP.

Allied CV reinforcements arriving with the fleet within the next 30 days:
1 US CV
3 British CVs
1 US CVL
17 CVEs

Total AC:
805

Allied CV reinforcements arriving with the fleet within the next 30-90 days:
3 US CVs
14 CVEs
2 Brit CVEs

Total AC
740

So in the coming 3 months I will receive in essence another allied CV fleet. Nice!

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1322
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/23/2013 1:49:18 AM   
witpqs


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Herring can be enjoyed more ways than one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJQp-q1Y1s

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Post #: 1323
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/23/2013 9:45:36 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Gotta love Monty Python! This is one of my favorite sketches!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

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Post #: 1324
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/23/2013 10:20:45 AM   
JocMeister

 

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12th-15th August -44

War is slowly grinding on. I have what I hope to be some very nasty surprises in store for Erik shortly. More on that a little later!

Burma
Erik is unfortunately continuing to send stuff south. Yet I cant budge him despite having 4-5 times the raw AV.

New Guniea
Ive started to shut bases down in the region. I need the AS and BFs on the Moluccas. Im really starting to feel a shortage of them both. This led to the major decision to shut Hansa Bay down. The 850 AS will move to the Moluccas together with all the BFs there. The aircraft will for now move to Darwin to be handled by the level 9 airfield and the 1900 AS currently there. Until reinforcements arrive from the CENTPAC area the shortage of BFs in general but particularly AS will remain.

Moluccas
The Mindanao invasion will have to be postponed a few days more. Loading is taking longer than expected. This is not all bad as it has given me time to reconfigure the shipping as well as scrape up BFs to land together with the assault. If I can get a CAP up quickly Erik will be in big problems. The delay has also given me time to prepare a trap for Erik. Lets see if he swallows the bait!

He also moved some 50 fighters back to Manado. No idea why. They will be dealt with next turn. Also sent in some DDs to deal with the minisubs and MTBs he has there.

Some good news from Talud-Eilanden this turn!

quote:

Ground combat at Talaud-eilanden (79,97)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 30387 troops, 543 guns, 889 vehicles, Assault Value = 1167

Defending force 11205 troops, 139 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 330

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 4

Allied adjusted assault: 1469

Japanese adjusted defense: 189

Allied assault odds: 7 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied forces CAPTURE Talaud-eilanden !!!

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
4059 casualties reported
Squads: 116 destroyed, 192 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 29 disabled
Engineers: 21 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 78 (29 destroyed, 49 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
522 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 44 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 27 disabled
Guns lost 17 (1 destroyed, 16 disabled)
Vehicles lost 10 (2 destroyed, 8 disabled)


Assaulting units:
754th Tank Battalion
37th Infantry Division
102nd Combat Engineer Regiment
24th Infantry Division
I Corps Cmbt Engineer Regiment
5th USMC Tank Battalion
I US Corps
South Pacific
147th Field Artillery Regiment
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
33rd Medium Regiment

Defending units:
54th Ind.Mixed Brigade
90th Naval Guard Unit
38th Ind.Mixed Brigade
49th Infantry Regiment
14th Naval Guard Unit
Maizuru 1st SNLF /3
28th JAAF AF Bn
1st Mobile Bde /3


As extra icing on the cake it looks like Erik flew in some more troops.

At Sansapor the allies managed to catch up with the troops fleeing from Sorong.

quote:

Ground combat at Sansapor (83,107)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 12816 troops, 214 guns, 544 vehicles, Assault Value = 556

Defending force 14277 troops, 143 guns, 16 vehicles, Assault Value = 332

Allied adjusted assault: 346

Japanese adjusted defense: 901

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 4)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1487 casualties reported
Squads: 13 destroyed, 39 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 24 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 36 disabled
Guns lost 18 (2 destroyed, 16 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
210 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 30 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 10 (1 destroyed, 9 disabled)
Vehicles lost 23 (3 destroyed, 20 disabled)


Assaulting units:
6th Infantry Division
671th Tank Destroyer Battalion
2nd USMC Tank Battalion
3rd USMC Tank Battalion


Defending units:
31st Engineer Regiment
1st Mobile Brigade
2nd Amphibious Brigade
16th Garrison Unit
8th Garrison Unit
45th Ind.Mixed Brigade
5th Garrison Unit
44th Naval Guard Unit
37th JAAF AF Bn
3rd JNAF AF Unit
13th Air Fleet /1


Ive ordered one more attack with everything here. If the Japs doesnt look like they will crumble Ill start some more bombings and let the tanks do the dirty work. I want the relieve the 6th ID and use it for a strategic reserve. Ive currently have only have the 2nd Marines as a reserve. And I think they might be needed on Mindanao.

Sidate and Talud will mean another 50.000 losses for the Empire. Even if he buys them back they will take serious time to rebuild and retrain them to be useful again.

OZ
Im looking at the possibility to do the DEI landings without CV support. Right now the DEI landings are dumped down to 3rd or even 4th priority. If I can secure Manado I have a level 9 AF in even better position than what I would get from Timor or the surrounding islands. Ill have to think about it. If anything I want to free the 5 IDs prepped for DEI to new targets...






Attachment (1)

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1325
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/23/2013 10:24:04 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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In other news
Got two sinking sounds during the replay. Nothing showed up on the sunk list though.

Some days are more fun as the allied than others. This was a fun turn!

quote:

CV Hancock arrives at Balboa
CVE Munda arrives at Portland
CLAA Argonaut arrives at Aden
DD Brush arrives at Eastern USA
DD Lyman K. Swenson arrives at Eastern USA
DD Howorth arrives at Seattle
DD Killen arrives at Seattle
DD Wren arrives at Seattle
DE Paul G. Baker arrives at San Francisco
DE Abercrombie arrives at Balboa
DE Oberrender arrives at Balboa
DE McCoy Reynolds arrives at Eastern USA
DE Samuel B. Roberts arrives at Balboa
DE Lawrence C. Taylor arrives at Balboa
DE LeRay Wilson arrives at Balboa
DE Hemminger arrives at Los Angeles
DE Halloran arrives at Mare Island
APD Cofer arrives at Balboa
APD Weber arrives at Eastern USA
AM Signet arrives at Seattle
AM Skirmish arrives at Seattle
AM Ardent arrives at Alameda
SS Moray arrives at Balboa
SS Roncador arrives at Eastern USA
SS Blower arrives at Balboa
SS Kraken arrives at Balboa
SS Sea Owl arrives at Balboa
SS Sea Poacher arrives at Eastern USA
SS Subtle arrives at Aden
SS Shalimar arrives at Aden
AO Mississinewa arrives at Balboa
TK Silver Cloud arrives at Portland
TK Shikellamy arrives at Portland
TK Mink arrives at San Francisco
TK Andrew Doria arrives at Portland
AE Mount Baker arrives at Cristobal
AE Ranier arrives at Cristobal
APA Comet arrives at Alameda
APA Adair arrives at Balboa
APA Dauphin arrives at Eastern USA
APA Dutchess arrives at Balboa
APA Gilliam arrives at Los Angeles
APA Appling arrives at Los Angeles
APA Cleburne arrives at Los Angeles
APA Dawson arrives at Los Angeles
APA Fallon arrives at Los Angeles
APA Haskell arrives at Los Angeles
APA Sarasota arrives at Tacoma
AKA Aurelia arrives at Eastern USA
AK Bedford Victory arrives at Alameda
AK Las Vegas Victory arrives at Alameda
AK Manderson Victory arrives at Alameda
AK Navajo Victory arrives at Alameda
AK Provo Victory arrives at Alameda
AKA Tolland arrives at Balboa
AKA Uvalde arrives at Alameda
AKA Diphda arrives at Eastern USA
LSD Shadwell arrives at Eastern USA
LST-630 arrives at Eastern USA
LST-631 arrives at Eastern USA
LST-632 arrives at Eastern USA
LST-633 arrives at Eastern USA
LST-634 arrives at Eastern USA
LST-635 arrives at Cristobal
LST-636 arrives at Cristobal
LST-637 arrives at Eastern USA
LST-638 arrives at Eastern USA
LST-639 arrives at Eastern USA
LST-640 arrives at Eastern USA
LST-641 arrives at Eastern USA
LST-642 arrives at Cristobal
LST-643 arrives at Cristobal
LST-644 arrives at Eastern USA
LSM-50 arrives at Cristobal
LSM-51 arrives at Cristobal
LSM-52 arrives at Cristobal
LSM-53 arrives at Cristobal
LSM-54 arrives at Cristobal
LSM-55 arrives at Cristobal
LSM-56 arrives at Cristobal
LSM-57 arrives at Cristobal
LSM-58 arrives at Cristobal
LSM-59 arrives at Cristobal
LCI(G)-403 arrives at San Francisco
LCI(G)-404 arrives at San Francisco
LCI(G)-405 arrives at San Francisco
LCI(G)-406 arrives at San Francisco
LCI(G)-407 arrives at San Francisco
LCI(G)-408 arrives at San Francisco
LCI-640 arrives at San Francisco
LCI-641 arrives at San Francisco
LCI-652 arrives at San Francisco
LCI-653 arrives at San Francisco
LCI-654 arrives at San Francisco
LCI-655 arrives at San Francisco
LCI-656 arrives at San Francisco
LCI-657 arrives at San Francisco
VMTB(CVS)-143 arrives at Santa Barbara
VMSB-343 arrives at Eastern USA
VMF(N)-542 arrives at Eastern USA
VMB-612 arrives at Eastern USA
VP-13 arrives at San Diego
VP-53 arrives at Oak Harbor
VB-119 arrives at San Diego
No.23 Sqn RNZAF arrives at Auckland

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Post #: 1326
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/23/2013 3:54:00 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Gotta love Monty Python! This is one of my favorite sketches!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

"And you try and tell the young people of today that, and they won't believe ya."

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/site/staffmonkeys/

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Post #: 1327
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/23/2013 5:51:04 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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Strategic Bombing
Im actually running out of targets from Burma. Campaign has been very successful so far but since we switched to the BETA tempo has really slowed down. My B29s have to be stood down for 5-8 days after each raid to repair. Quite realistic in fact. I like it!

There are a few targets remaining in Burma though:
Medan x36 oil
Saigon x51 HI 11x Repair
Georgetown x51 HI
Canton x17 HI
Hong Kong HIx26 Repairx48

Question for the readers.
Is it worth keeping the XX bomber command in Burma just to knock down the HI still in range? Or should I switch them to Darwin and start hitting the oil in range? There are roughly 400 Oil points in range from Darwin.

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Post #: 1328
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/24/2013 12:12:27 AM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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Good question. If you are about to cut off all the shipping to and from the DEI by taking places bordering the South China Sea, you don't need to destroy the oil production in the DEI.

If you are not sure you can choke off the shipping, you do want to take out the oil, if the range is not extreme for the B-29s.

I would take out the Medan oil first anyway. The HI cannot operate without fuel input so it is less important. If your bombing raids have made his ports at HK and Saigon too dangerous for ship repair, I would not waste effort hitting the repair shipyards either. If they are not being used, that is sufficient.

However, I do wonder what happens to a ship in the drydock when you destroy the repair shipyard? If you see anything along this line during your bombing let us know!

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

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Post #: 1329
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/24/2013 1:00:41 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Strategic Bombing
Im actually running out of targets from Burma. Campaign has been very successful so far but since we switched to the BETA tempo has really slowed down. My B29s have to be stood down for 5-8 days after each raid to repair. Quite realistic in fact. I like it!

There are a few targets remaining in Burma though:
Medan x36 oil
Saigon x51 HI 11x Repair
Georgetown x51 HI
Canton x17 HI
Hong Kong HIx26 Repairx48

Question for the readers.
Is it worth keeping the XX bomber command in Burma just to knock down the HI still in range? Or should I switch them to Darwin and start hitting the oil in range? There are roughly 400 Oil points in range from Darwin.


Good question.

I think I see diminishing returns when I strat bomb with equal planes on smaller and smaller targets. IOW, 30 bombers, one raid hitting an Oil hex with 10(90) and an equal number of planes hitting an Oil hex with 90(10), I "think" I see more damage on the latter one. Could be my imagination; I have not done a spreadsheet. Not my style.

So in that sense hitting big, raw oil fields like Balikpapan might be good. OTOH, you have to move to Darwin, and that's ops losses, damage, and fatigue before you can do anything from there.

On a third hand, don't destroy anything you might want for yourself. As we've said, Balikpapan and Tarakan are nice local suppliers for the PI.

On the fourth hand, taking out HI now directly hurts air production as well as arms points. If you're planning a grinding strategy in China, say, you might want to more directly hurt Arms and Vehicles. Has he used his navy and merchants in a way that you suspect he's lower on Fuel or HI points?

On balance I guess for me I'd finish up locally a bit more than you have before moving to new fields. Saigon in particular always is a thorn I want to trim. Maybe that's personal. Medan also has a lot of uses if the Allies take it intact, but if not I'd cream it before leaving. Without it northern Sumatra is a desert more or less and Burma is running on internal power.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/24/2013 1:03:01 AM >


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The Moose

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Post #: 1330
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/24/2013 1:34:32 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

... Saigon in particular always is a thorn I want to trim. Maybe that's personal...


Oh NOOOO! Don't bomb the bath houses! The Japanese will accuse you of war crimes!


_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 1331
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/24/2013 4:26:47 PM   
JocMeister

 

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From: Sweden
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I doubt that anyone cares with CRs and JIIIs game in full swing right now.

But US troops are about to land on Mindanao tonight! Im expecting 50% losses in assault shipping but in exchange light to none in carrier losses. Time to keep those fingers crossed again. This could turn really ugly for me if Erik string of bad luck decides to end right now.

The pacing begins...


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Post #: 1332
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/24/2013 6:14:51 PM   
JocMeister

 

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From: Sweden
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18th August 1944

Cotabato Invasion - Prelude

Moving to a position between Cotabato and Jolo my intention was to try and force Erik to divide a bit. Only a small strike flew on the 18th. This was not dealt with by my CAP properly and 2 Graces went through launching at Essex but missing.

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Basilan at 75,91

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes <-- Very short warning here. Not sure why?

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 36
B7A2 Grace x 15


Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 22
Hellcat I x 17
Seafire IIC x 13
Wildcat V x 4
F4U-1A Corsair x 167
F6F-3 Hellcat x 60


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 21 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 8 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 1 destroyed by flak


Again Im a bit disappointed in the actual numbers showing up on CAP. This time I guess the short warning was responsible. This makes me up the CAP percentage to 80%. This turns out to help the following day!

I decided not to do this the usual way. I dont want any more CV/CVLs/CVEs out of action. That could potentially strand my forces on Mindanao. So I decided to risk my assault shipping instead and put them on the frontline. I knew 95% of the forces would unload during the nightphase so losses would be in shipping which I can afford. So the CVs actually withdrew 3 hexes to the south with 120 Hellcats providing LRCAP over the landings. This also turned out good!

Here is the screen of the planned movement for the invasion. Target Cotabato! I chose this for three reasons.
-Its unexpected
-Its in clear terrain. During the course of time I was proven correctly as Erik has 15-20.000 men at both Davao and Dadiangas.
-The third and most important reason: It can be built up to a level 9 AF.

Here is a screen of the day before the invasion!









Attachment (1)

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 6/24/2013 6:24:50 PM >

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Post #: 1333
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/25/2013 12:34:16 AM   
BBfanboy


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Short warning - 40nm in 11 mins. = 3.64 miles per minute X60 = 218 knots approach speed - not unusual.
Altitude was low 7K feet with heavy cloud, so spotting the raid would have been difficult for CAP.

Was your CAP layered down to 5K feet? If so, it is just their good luck that the clouds hid them from the CAP and there is nothing you can do about it.

Your landing force looks big enough to overwhelm what he is likely to have. I bet Davao and Dadjangas have the bulk of his troops. Forts may delay your taking the base for a turn, but if your landing force is fully prepped they should be able to get in a couple of DAs and take the base.

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1334
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/25/2013 12:55:38 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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Cotabato Invasion - Battle Day 1

Here is a interesting piece on the effectiveness of LCI(G)s!

quote:

Pre-Invasion action off Cotabato (78,90)

159 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
CA Astoria
CL Cleveland
LCI(G)-82
LCI(G)-81
LCI(G)-80
LCI(G)-79
LCI(G)-78
LCI(G)-77
LCI(G)-76
LCI-70
LCI-69
LCI-68
LCI-67
LCI-66
LCI-65
LCI-64
LCI-61
APA Highlands


Japanese ground losses:
1117 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 67 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 71 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled


Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 16 (1 destroyed, 15 disabled)


All in all Im quite happy with the day. Things went mostly as planned. KB showed up and tried to crash the party at Cotabato. I did lose some ships there but overall the losses were very light:

-3 DEs
-2 AMs
-3 APAs
-2 AKAs


While it looks bad to lose APA/AKAs I have only lost 2-3 or so far in the war and I think I have some 40 APAs at Cotabato alone. AKAs about the same thing. So nothing too noticeable and it wont change much.

Here are the KB strikes:

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Cotabato at 78,90

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 50 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 18
A6M5b Zero x 75
A6M5c Zero x 16
B5N2 Kate x 4
B6N2 Jill x 7
B6N2a Jill x 29
D4Y3 Judy x 46
D4Y4 Judy x 35


Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y3 Judy: 5 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak
D4Y4 Judy: 7 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 4 destroyed by flak


Allied Ships
LSI(L) Australia Star, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Mjollner
APA Fayette, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DE Lyman
DD Bryant, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Knapp
APA Knox, Torpedo hits 1
AM Dynamic, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
DD Izard
DD Albert Grant
APA Herald of Morning, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
APA Callaway, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Birmingham
DE Burden R. Hastings, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
DD Hall
APA Storm King, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AKA Thuban, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AKA Alshain, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Mobile
DD Haraden
DD Evans, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DE Greiner, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Bennion
AM Exploit, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
APA Elmore, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Callaghan
DE Lovering, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
APA Bolivar



Things went exactly as planned and Eriks strikes were divided. KB went for the already unloaded assault shipping at Cotabato while the LBA went for my CVs. Only one strike managed to get through CAP putting a bomb in Manila Bay.

Everything went ashore perfectly and I ordered an attack the following day. This backed up by naval bombardment and 4E strikes.

I also decided to move my CVs closer to Cotabato to cover the follow up landings with the unprepped troops. This proved to be of significance the next day.





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1335
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/25/2013 1:30:34 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 5141
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From: Sweden
Status: offline
Cotabato Invasion - Battle Day 2

Turns out Erik did not retire the KB. Again the ugly 8 hex rule rears it ugly head. My CV forces alone take on the strikes as no other shipping is attacked. At first it looks like we might prevail but then a good coordinated strike goes through:

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Cotabato at 77,90

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 51 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 15
A6M5b Zero x 66
A6M5c Zero x 9
B5N2 Kate x 8
B6N2 Jill x 6
B6N2a Jill x 54
D4Y3 Judy x 79
D4Y4 Judy x 53


Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 20
Hellcat I x 14
Seafire IIC x 10
Wildcat V x 4
F4U-1A Corsair x 172
F6F-3 Hellcat x 55
F6F-5 Hellcat x 16


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5b Zero: 4 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 2 destroyed
B6N2a Jill: 9 destroyed, 14 damaged
B6N2a Jill: 1 destroyed by flak
D4Y3 Judy: 8 destroyed, 12 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 3 destroyed by flak
D4Y4 Judy: 6 destroyed, 10 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 2 destroyed by flak


Allied aircraft losses
Hellcat I: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Kasaan Bay, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Fanshaw Bay, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Unicorn, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Casablanca, Torpedo hits 2
CVE Kadashan Bay, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CVE St. Lo, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
CV Intrepid, Bomb hits 2
CVL Cowpens, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1
CVL Langley, Bomb hits 2
CV Essex
CVL Princeton, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
CVL San Jacinto, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
CVE Natoma Bay, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CVE Tulagi, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Breton
CVE Liscome Bay
DE Spangler
DD Aylwin
CVE Ommaney Bay, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CV Bunker Hill, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires
<---

-------------------------------------------------

Fuel storage explosion on CVE Fanshaw Bay
Ammo storage explosion on CVE Kadashan Bay
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Kadashan Bay
Ammo storage explosion on CVE Natoma Bay
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Natoma Bay
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE St. Lo
Fuel storage explosion on CVL San Jacinto
Fuel storage explosion on CVL Princeton
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVL San Jacinto
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVL Unicorn
Ammo storage explosion on CVE Ommaney Bay
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Bunker Hill




Im a bit horrified at first. But after this strike I realise that the Allied CV fleet is still very much a fighting force to be reckoned with!

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Cotabato at 77,90

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 3,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 6
B7A2 Grace x 12


Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 20
Hellcat I x 13
Seafire IIC x 10
Wildcat V x 4
F4U-1A Corsair x 160
F6F-3 Hellcat x 50
F6F-5 Hellcat x 14


It looks a lot worse than it is. Only 3 CVEs are lost outright and I might lose the Unicorn tomorrow. If I can keep anything from being hit tomorrow Im quite happy with the outcome. The CVEs repair quickly even when heavily damaged. Same thing with the CVLs. All can be repaired locally except Bunker Hill


Win or Loss?
While this looks like a tactical Allied defeat its actually not. Erik has shot both the KB air arm and the LBA with over 1000 losses over two days. I on the other hand still have a viable CV force with roughly 750 AC on board. And most importantly I now have a potential level 9 AF on Mindanao! Huzzah!!!

quote:

Ground combat at Cotabato (78,90)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 30267 troops, 625 guns, 671 vehicles, Assault Value = 1289

Defending force 18173 troops, 189 guns, 18 vehicles, Assault Value = 583

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Allied adjusted assault: 1928

Japanese adjusted defense: 184

Allied assault odds: 10 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied forces CAPTURE Cotabato !!!

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
J2M3 Jack: 11 destroyed


Combat modifiers
Defender: disruption(-), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
6268 casualties reported
Squads: 259 destroyed, 37 disabled
Non Combat: 179 destroyed, 24 disabled
Engineers: 80 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 142 (120 destroyed, 22 disabled)
Vehicles lost 16 (16 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 3


Allied ground losses:
905 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 73 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 34 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 34 disabled
Guns lost 9 (1 destroyed, 8 disabled)
Vehicles lost 21 (2 destroyed, 19 disabled)


Assaulting units:
110th Combat Engineer Battalion
32nd Infantry Division
38th Infantry Division
1st Cavalry (Spec) Cavalry Division
1st USMC Tank Battalion
3rd NZ Armoured Sqn
XIV US Corps
Southwest Pacific
51st Marine Defense Battalion
2nd RAA Jungle Regiment
98th Field Artillery Battalion
822/828 EAB /1


Defending units:
64th Ind.Mixed Brigade
6th Division
6th Garrison Unit /4
216th Naval Construction Battalion
4th RF Gun Battalion
III/81st Naval Guard Unit
180th JAAF AF Bn



The 6th Jap ID is actually a very good formation that starts out with 80 EXP. Or should I say WAS a very good formation? My troops are in excellent shape after the battle and tomorrow we start the persuit!




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 6/25/2013 1:31:40 PM >

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1336
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/25/2013 1:33:45 PM   
catwhoorg


Posts: 638
Joined: 9/27/2012
From: Uk expat lving near Atlanta
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Win or Loss?
While this looks like a tactical Allied defeat its actually not. Erik has shot both the KB air arm and the LBA with over 1000 losses over two days. I on the other hand still have a viable CV force with roughly 750 AC on board. And most importantly I now have a potential level 9 AF on Mindanao! Huzzah!!!



That's the really big picture. Assest must be risked, and some will be lost, but the tide must keep rolling and seizing objectives.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1337
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/25/2013 1:36:12 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 5141
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
Air losses over the two days! Cant complain about that. Notice the second day is almost entirely KB losses. KB will be out of action for at least a few days to a week.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1338
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/25/2013 1:48:31 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 7159
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
Cotabato - Head NE from here to cut off his troops at Davao. Then, you can use supplies to create barges and move into the Archipelago quickly.

KB - at some point, you will need to move aggressively towards her and put her down.

_____________________________


(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1339
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/25/2013 2:52:54 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 2575
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
+1 on hitting KB before it withdraws. Whatever happens, the Allied carriers must move out of the 8-hex circle that his denying a counterpunch. If he has significant BB/CA assets left he may send them now to try hit the beachhead or intercept the carriers. I would put at least three SCTFs at the beachhead and put my carriers near Jolo.

It is also significant that his subs have not been much of a factor. You have been doing a great job of killing/maiming them!

CVL Unicorn is not going to survive Sys 77, Fires 94. Scuttle her and save the captain.

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1340
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/25/2013 3:24:43 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 5141
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
Michael,
Thats my plan. Going divide forces here a bit. 2 IDs plus the Arty, Engineers and Armor are heading for Cagayan while 1 ID stays put to secure the base. I want to destroy that 6th ID.

BB,
Not an option Im afraid. He can outrun me since Im weighed down by the slow speed of the CVEs (4/4). Im guessing he will head back to Manila to replenish and then come back. By the time he does things will be much different! I might scuttle Unicorn. But I have had a US CVE come back from almost the same condition!Tempted to give it a try!

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1341
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/25/2013 3:51:25 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 5141
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
I was called in at work at 3:30 this morning so things have been a bit hectic and not much sleep. I just had time to take a quick look at the turn, asses the damage and come up with a plan.

This is a rough draft of what Ill do tomorrow.

Im going to devote a full day to try and save what can be saved. For this I need the CV CAP. Ill switch most of the Escort fighters to CAP, fly out most of the TB/DBs and put more fighters on the deck. Thought here is to try and keep any incoming strikes tomorrow at bay. With the losses Erik suffered the last two days he cant have much in flyable condition left? Right? Im going to assume he will go all in on this one forsaking CAP for escorts. So Im going to try and use the opportunity to close Davao and Cagayan. Cagayan will be dealt with from the air while Davao will receive naval bombardment. Luckily I brought up the BBs to Talud last turn incase the Cotabato assault stalled. Dadjangas lack an AF so that wont have to be dealt with.

This I hope will kill off the last of his strike capabilities and help get the damaged shipping in under the LBCAP at Talud-Eilanden. Once that is done with I have another ace up my sleeve!

As a small thing that can turn out to be important is the fact that the Cotabato AF is open. Need to think of how to exploit this. Im contemplating sending in the BFs right away under a 100 P47 CAP. That might draw a crapload of fire though and overwhelm the CAP. With the way unloading works in friendly bases (its stupid..) there is a risk they wont have unloaded anything when the strikes come in. The ships I can spare. The BFs not so much. It might also ground my 4 best squadrons at the base. I have 2 radars at Cotabato. Thoughts?


(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1342
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/25/2013 3:59:12 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 7159
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
Why haven't you been keeping the transport with BFs and construction engineers in the same hex as your CVs?? Even your 12 knot xAKs (Liberty Ships) move 6 hexes per day vs CV on mission speed. The CV and warships will only go that max (16 hexes or more) if at Full Speed.

_____________________________


(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1343
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/25/2013 5:01:01 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 5141
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Why haven't you been keeping the transport with BFs and construction engineers in the same hex as your CVs?? Even your 12 knot xAKs (Liberty Ships) move 6 hexes per day vs CV on mission speed. The CV and warships will only go that max (16 hexes or more) if at Full Speed.


Ah, one of the hard parts of writing a AAR. I tend to forget mentioning important stuff!

The BFs are indeed with the CVs. They are loaded aboard APAs/AKAs. I dont feel I can afford to divert CV CAP to cover both the retreating cripples, the CVs themselves and unloading operations at Cotabato. Hence the question if its worth flying in P47s Cotabato.

Right now Im leaning toward yes. With the strike routine being what it is its highly likely that whatever comes for us goes for the CVs/CVEs and not the transports.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1344
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/25/2013 6:02:41 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 7159
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
Fly in your fighters today and unload the BFs tomorrow to give them Aviation Support. They will fly without it, but not for long.

_____________________________


(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1345
RE: CV clash in the Celebes Sea! - 6/25/2013 6:57:01 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 5141
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
Turn is sent to Erik. Dont think Ill get the replay back today. Ill be heading to bed shortly anyway. I did more or less as I planned in post #1342. Had to scrap the Cagayan AF hit though. My B24s took quite a beating last turn and I had to stand them down.

Sent the BFs in under a 50 plane P47 CAP backup up by 50 Spit VIIs. Transferred in almost 200 additional fighters to the CV fleet. Every available fighter is on CAP duty. I would be really nice to get at least the Bunker Hill back to safety. She can only do 7 knots though so it will be a slow journey. Started loading more troops/BFs for Mindanao. Running REALLY short on everything right now.

Fingers crossed!

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1346
Allied forces on Mindanao! - 6/25/2013 7:31:53 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 5141
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
On page 13(!) in this AAR the following can be found in post #374

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

2nd objective


Land forces on Mindanao.
This might be the most optimistic goal of them all. It will require that the Moluccas are secured no later then September/October. I really need to secure PM fast in order to get moving. Rabaul will be bypassed if needed to buy time.


I actually did it didnt I?! Not only did I do it but I did it with 5 months to spare! When I wrote that I was quite depressed with my situation. I had been stuck at PM for quite some time before it finally fell on the 18th of November. And now Im on Mindanao. Im actually very proud of my NG campaign. Admittedly I did have quite a lot of luck occasionally but all good commanders do right?

Looking at the map Im quite astonished of the distance I traversed in only 8 months. This without any CV support at all and at least initially without much of a navy.

If I ever get some spare time Ill try and make a timeline and compare losses.

But tonight Ill go to sleep with that wonderful feeling of accomplishment regardless of what happens the next turn.


(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1347
RE: Allied forces on Mindanao! - 6/25/2013 8:14:15 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 1018
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline
And all that with a new baby as well

Congratulations on turning this one around

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1348
RE: Allied forces on Mindanao! - 6/25/2013 8:59:50 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 2575
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

And all that with a new baby as well

Congratulations on turning this one around

+1 - you have mastered the many nuances of this game in a short time.
But ... don't challenge Nemo just yet!

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 1349
RE: Allied forces on Mindanao! - 6/26/2013 8:25:07 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 5141
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
21st August -44

A very good day for the allies overall. No cripples lost. Hitting Davao was a big Jackpot!

quote:

Night Naval bombardment of Davao at 79,91

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
H8K2 Emily: 43 damaged
H8K2 Emily: 6 destroyed on ground
J2M3 Jack: 31 damaged
J2M3 Jack: 2 destroyed on ground
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 134 damaged
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 15 destroyed on ground
D4Y4 Judy: 9 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 3 destroyed on ground
N1K2-J George: 56 damaged
N1K2-J George: 7 destroyed on ground


Allied Ships
BB Queen Elizabeth
BB Valiant
BB Mississippi
BB Idaho
BC Renown
DD Crane
DD Kennison
DD Nepal
DD Stuart
DD Worden
DD Farragut
DD Downes


Japanese ground losses:
441 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 18 destroyed, 31 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 8 disabled
Guns lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Vehicles lost 3 (3 destroyed, 0 disabled)


Airbase hits 32
Airbase supply hits 13
Runway hits 78


quote:

Night Naval bombardment of Davao at 79,91

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 15 damaged
N1K2-J George: 5 destroyed on ground
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 61 damaged
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 6 destroyed on ground
D4Y4 Judy: 12 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 1 destroyed on ground
H8K2 Emily: 10 damaged
H8K2 Emily: 1 destroyed on ground
J2M3 Jack: 40 damaged
J2M3 Jack: 6 destroyed on ground


Allied Ships
BB California
BB Arizona
BB Nevada
BB Maryland
DD Stevens
DD Stembel
DD Sproston
DD Sigsbee
DD Sigourney
DD Norman Scott
DD John Rodgers
DD Remey


Japanese ground losses:
476 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 23 destroyed, 28 disabled
Engineers: 5 destroyed, 8 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 3 (2 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Manpower hits 1
Fires 80
Airbase hits 19
Runway hits 78


Boom!

AF is of course closed after this. Im guessing that was meant to escort his strikes during the day. Without escorts his bombers didnt seem keen on flying! Only one strike flew during the entire day and it went for the transports at Cotabato.

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Cotabato at 78,90

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B6N2 Jill x 24
N1K2-J George x 35


Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 24
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 27


Japanese aircraft losses
B6N2 Jill: 5 destroyed, 2 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 2 destroyed by flak
N1K2-J George: 8 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
Spitfire VIII: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CL Birmingham
CA Vincennes
APA Winged Arrow


Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo


Only about 50% of the troops have unloaded and I need supply so I decided to keep the transports. I dont know how Erik will react to the CAP here. He might try a sweep or two. I didnt dare set the CAP up high incase he went in low with his strikes. So if he sweeps tomorrow I hope my CAP have time to climb up to his sweeps.

Crippled transports reached the safety of Talud CAP and onwards to Morotai and then Sydney. My crippled CVs/CVL/CVEs made 3 hexes during the turn and barring a massive, massive Japanese effort they should be safe. I have 300 planes on LRCAP from Talud. CV Fleet is otherwised engaged...at...

Jolo
Assault ships make a dash for the level 5 AF. Im going in almost blind here. I reconned the base 12 days ago but havnt dared to do it more since I really dont want him reinforcing the base. Im going in quite light with only 300ish AV. Last peek said 2 units there. If its something big like a RGT Im toast. Fingers crossed. I set only a small LRCAP from the CVs to cover the fleet. This is a bit of a gamble. But Im hoping to catch Erik off guard with this dash. By the looks of it with only one strike today Erik has really shot his LBA.

CV situation
I have about 3 CVs and 10 CVEs roughly 2 weeks out. By then most of what was hit in the Battle of Celebes sea should be repaired. 1 CV, 1 CVL and 7 CVEs to be exact. 1 CVL and 4 CVEs will need longer yard time. I also have Hancock, Ticonderoga and Yggdrasil in the pipeline. Should arrive in about 2 months. By then I hope everything hit yesterday will have finished up repairs. Not counting Bunker Hill here obviously. With 44/37/22 she will be gone for a long time. Im scheduling the PH yard for her. Guessing about 3-5 months of repair time.

Elsewhere
With the Mindanao and Jolo invasions over with I finally can stand down my CVs for some RR. Assault ships will get no rest though. We have a long string of invasions lined up. First assignment is to clear Manado. Then its the DEI landings. But Ill keep enough lift around Moluccas to move 1 division plus some more.

Here is a screen of the situation!










Attachment (1)

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